Friday, February 17, 2012

?ליצמאן אדער גינסבערג? ווער האט בעסער פארטיידיגט חרדי'שע אידן

MK Yaakov Litzman walks out on girls' choir singing at some ceremony he attended as Gov't Minister. That makes the news and shows the rest of Israeli society that Charedim cannot be normal. Whatever that means. Or at least not Gerrer with their "Yiddishkeit." This is not the first time that it's happening either. Litzman is following Jewish law to the letter, yes, but is he really? and at who's expense is he doing it? Walking out on sweet little girls because they "attract attention" or "bring to impure thoughts" is perverted, at least in the eyes of the general public. We can debate what Torah thinks of that some other time. So some people would tell הרב ליצמן that if he can't deal with the responsibilities of what it takes to be a Minister in the Zionist Government, that maybe he find another job? It seems to me that even the Gerrer Rebbe's son-in-law, Reb Itche Meir Levin, z"l, a much-more learned and pious individual that RYL, seemed to carry himself better and did a better job at making a Kiddush Hashem than does Reb Yankel, and in the early days of the State that was no easy feat.



At the same time we have been seeing much of what happened when talk-show queen Oprah Winfrey sat down with the Ginsbergs and talked about what it means to be a Hassidic family. This was a first-look into the very "secretive" society that we are, they said. [I know, Lubavitch hogged all the attention, as usual, and no REAL Chassidim were represented... As if that would have ever happened, and hashem Yishmor if it would have.] I say that for at least two reasons. 1) is that it may look a lot better in pictures and film, but this was a sit-down with lots of talking, and some young adults were involved too. No Chassidishe Boocher'l would've sat there and answered her questions like "have you ever touched a וכו', or do you know who "Miley Cirus is." Mendel sat there and answered just as innocently, but he also spoke nicely and eloquently when asked "what it means to be a Hasidic Jew." Mendel, who might have been coached what to say if and when such a question arises, knows what to say because he's been going on מבצעים since he's, what? 11? or earlier? This is his life. 2) This family, despite the fact that their day to day involvement is with Boro Park parents (no easy task) are shluchim to the Boro Park neighborhood of Brooklyn. They're quite accustomed to dealing with questions such as Ms. Winfrey's, and they did quite a good job at it! I'd dare say that many people will become frum because of the Ginsbergs and how they made Yiddishkeit look all warm and fuzzy. and many people may even convert to Judaism!

Frum people may look at some of the questions posed her and wonder in amazement how she dared answer them. They're דברים שהצניעות יפה להם, and she should've politely declined to answer them. To that I say "puh-leez." They did an awesome job of answering the questions so that people get the idea while still maintaining the mystique of it all. Once they agreed to do the interview this was the best that could be done. Of course young children should not be allowed to watch this interview, and it was never intended for them, even if they are Lubavitchers! Now contrast that with some of the shenanigans that the frum chavrei knesset subject us to on an almost daily basis. I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the gedolei Yisroel who send them as their shluchim to the Knesset would see what actually goes on there, just watch unedited video clips, they'd reconsider. And I'm not talking about the statements of "kefiroh" made by the irreligious, I'm talking about the yelling and screaming and general chilul hashem that happens through the childish behavior that is a mainstay at Israel's House of Parliament. There's more to say, just very little time for it.

47 comments:

ענדע צדיק said...

I was rather skeptical when the mother asked 'who are all these people?' ober lomir shoin zogn. But am I an apikoires for refusing to believe that the kids didn't know who Mickey Mouse is? I'd struggle if this was in Williamsburg, perhaps in skver, but in Lubavitch?

R' Hershl, persuade me.

Anonymous said...

Tzig: "Oprah Winfrey sat down with the Ginsbergs" or "shenanigans that the frum chavrei Knesset"

אלה ברכב..ואלה בסוסים, הצד השוה שבהם שדרכם לילך ולהזיק

russian chusid said...

Tzig,

In your trying to prove the supremacy of Lubavitch over everybody else you are completely forgeting haluche - there is no heter in the world to be in front of the singing 12 year old. I know that the mehalech of SOME lubavitchers is to forget about haluche when it comes to kiruv, but the questions is if it was the Rebbes mehalech or not.

I think he did it in a most eidele way (and i am not a supporter on Litzman in any way). He did not scream or was moiche in any way-he just quietly left.What's wrong with that?To my understanding Kidush Hashem is when you follow the Toire, not disregard it.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"אלה ברכב..ואלה בסוסים, הצד השוה שבהם שדרכם לילך ולהזיק"
nice Possuk, but who is mazik.

Anonymous said...

I am not a Aron Ginzburgh fan, but it was definitely a kidush hashem, thats very rare to get this days..
especially after the negative exposure in the secular media by this Berkowitz/Feldman girl.

M.M. (Mickey Mouse) said...

I agree.The interview was great but I find it hard to believe that they never heard of Mickey.Beyonce,Jzee,even Shrek Bdoichik,but Mickey Mouse.C,mon.

Anonymous said...

Sruel Eichler (Belzer MK) in Yated writes regarding the Ophrah visit by the Ginzburghs, he claims that israeli charadie establishment should learn how to work the secular media from that visit. התבערה נגד היהדות החרדית, יש להביא אנשים בעלי השפעה לפגוש את הטוב והיפה ביהדות החרדית. הם באים בלאו הכי למחנה ישראל לראות את הדברים הרעים. הם מצלמים כל שערוריה ומפרסמים כל דבר רע. לכן, צריך שיבואו גם לראות דברים יפים, אירועים תורניים, שילמדו מה זה בן תורה המוסר חייו לתורה בעוני ודחקות, מה הם היכלי תורה מעוז חיי האומה, מה זאת חסידות אמיתית, מהי התנדבות בעם ומהו עולם החסד החרדי. אמנם ישנם דברים שהצנעה יפה להם. הפרסום מקלקל את הצלחת המהלך.

בארצות הברית התארחה שדרנית גויה במשפחה חרדית בניו יורק. היא פרסמה התרשמות חיובית למאות מליוני אמריקאים, על "הדרת נשים" אמיתית באורח החיים החרדי. בארץ לא יעיזו כלי תקשורת להציג את יפעת הדרה של המשפחה החרדית. אבל אם נדע לשלב את השיטה האמריקאית של תגובות זועמות של צרכנים נגד עיתונאים התוקפים את היהודים או את ישראל, יחד עם הצגת היופי שביהדות, נוכל לגרום לכך שעיתונאים חילונים, הגונים, יציגו גם את הצד שלנו. טובה כתבה אחת של עיתונאי חילוני, על היהדות החרדית מאלף ראיונות ומאמרים מוצלחים של דוברים חרדים רהוטים. שלא לדבר על כאלה שרק מזיקים ומוציאים דיבה, כשהם מדברים בשם היהדות החרדית.

נכון, מי שאין לו ענין לראות בטוב ירושלים אין להכניסו לשום מקום חרדי. אבל מי שמוכן לראות ולהתרשם ויש לו השפעה על המוני קוראים ומאזינים, בוודאי שיש להביאו ולו כדי להוציא את הארס משיניו. ושוב, זה צריך להיעשות בשקט ובלי פרסום הגורם לעיתונאי להירתע מלכתוב דברים טובים. בכך יצא שכרנו בהפסדנו. אבל צריך גם חובה, לפעול להורדת הלהבות בתקשורת, כי בנפשנו הדבר.

Anonymous said...

Russian Chusid
"In your trying to prove the supremacy of Lubavitch"
This words are not necessary for the discussion.

Anonymous said...

Russian chusid
"you are completely forgeting haluche - there is no heter in the world to be in front of the singing 12 year old. I know that the mehalech of SOME lubavitchers is to forget about haluche when it comes to kiruv, but the questions is if it was the Rebbes mehalech or not."
if you start with Halocha, then go the next step of the Veyoel Moshe that he is oiver of the issur of Avoida zora of being in Kenesset.
He should of stay in Gerer Kolel and do 24/7 Brischo Yintzori as the Bies Yisroel demanded and keep his hands out of the Hoizen Tash., and stop hacking a chienik being a Health Minister in a 65% secular country.

Anonymous said...

ענדע צדיק: "refusing to believe that the kids didn't know who Mickey Mouse is?"

No Mickey Mouse in KY! read up below link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/nyregion/11towns.html?sq=PETER%20APPLEBOME%20on%20Moskowitz%20toy%20store%20&st=cse&scp=1&pagewanted=print

Anonymous said...

anon 12:34, "nice Possuk, but who is mazik."

רש"י על הפסוק, למה תתראו את עצמכם לבני ישמעאל ולבני עשו כאילו אתם שבעים

esov & yakov don't mix if yakov is good למה תראו ? and if bad again למה תתראו ?

snagville said...

I will admit my bias but the Oprah thing stretched my ability to want to believe this was real. Mickey Mouse? C'mon. And the Mrs. with "who are these people?" C'mon. Um they are the names of fruit in other countries. As Willy Shakespeare said it best 200 years ago. "the lady doth protest too much" You almost had me Mrs. Ginsburg, you almost had me.

Anonymous said...

snagville: "Mickey Mouse-Mrs. with "who are these people?"-Willy Shakespeare-the lady doth protest too much-Mrs. Ginsburg, you almost had me"

Snag, what are 'you' talking about? and it don't sound like תורת הח"ן either?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

snag

would your heilige rebbetzin know who the performers she asks about are? not Mickey, the others.

snagville said...

I agree that it would have been believable without the Mickey Mouse part. But KOL Hamosef Goreah. The kids went to far. By saying they didnt know Mickey Mouse they ended up looking coached. To me it looked they worried but if they admitted knowing MM they would then have had to make a distinction between Mickey Mouse and JayZ's Rebbetzin and they didn't have enough confidence that Oprah would understand the distinction. But the bottom line while it might have been Korov Lemes, Emes it wasn't. In regards to the Mrs. as I said it came across as too eager to make the point that she didn't know these people. Obviously Oprah was naming people from TV/Entertainment, their exact role is not important. By going to far she seemed a little too eager and ruined the whole piece for me.

dovy in j. said...

why didn't she ask them if they ever heard of mattisyahu?

Anonymous said...

the rebbe is rolling over in his grave that his shluchim agreed to such an interview in the first place, answerering well or not is besides that point that they didnt.

Anonymous said...

Snagville
"By saying they didnt know Mickey Mouse they ended up looking coached."
please fargin it for the Ginzburghs, it was good and neat...
your criticism is off the wall..

Anonymous said...

Anon
"the rebbe is rolling over in his grave that his shluchim agreed to such an interview in the first place,"
the rebbe is not rolling, I am rolling from your Tipshes..

Anonymous said...

My Lubavitcher parents are baki b'chol michmanei ha'goyishe music of the 60's, 70's and 80's, and I can assure you they have no clue who Beyoncé and Ms. Cyrus are. Kal v'chomer these super-eidele, farfrumte mentchen who live in BP and have (9) [10] kids to tend to.

Anonymous said...

This is an hour of שמד in EY with the massive רודף החרדים ...so certainly litzman did the only thing he could do....to be in the כנסת is another discussion...

Anonymous said...

anon 4:15: "to be in the כנסת is another discussion..."

Unfortunately is the same discussion! I once heared from SR z"l by א פארבּרענג when he said לא תתגודדו ולא תשימו קרחה למת
עס וועט ניט זיין קיין אגודה, וועט ניט זיין קיין נטוחי מתים, זיי זענען אלץ שולדיג. ודפּח"ח

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

נטוחי...
LOL

Anonymous said...

My question is on the bucher'l going on about the TV. What, he doesn't watch Lireys Es Malkeynu Every Motza"sh?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Unfortunately is the same discussion! I once heared from SR z"l by א פארבּרענג when he said לא תתגודדו ולא תשימו קרחה למת
עס וועט ניט זיין קיין אגודה, וועט ניט זיין קיין נטוחי מתים, זיי זענען אלץ שולדיג. ודפּח"ח"
please don"t repeat stuff that the SR said, when his temperamental level was on the high side, you are embarrassing a Odem godel, who is considered by many,to be a Chachimei Deyedhoa

Anonymous said...

Anon
"My question is on the bucher'l going on about the TV. What, he doesn't watch Lireys Es Malkeynu Every Motza"sh?"
it is not Tv, its their house toaster or microwave, the same that are used by charadie dinners of Bonai Olem or A time

russian chusid said...

Anon 1.23

if you start with Halocha, then go the next step of the Veyoel Moshe that he is oiver of the issur of Avoida zora of being in Kenesset.



We are talking about halocho, not pirush on agudas chazal :) v dok lhovin.

WHAT ELSE LEADS OUR LIFE IF NOT HALUCHE????
There is such a thing as a 5fte shulchan oruch, but you got to know first 4 to use the 5th.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Russian Chosid
you're right, but then he should be doing his homework before he goes on such trips

russian chusid said...

and who said he did not?
Ask R YSEF HELLER, OR RABBI BRAWN WHAT A ERLICHER YID SHOULD DO.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Cheskel

You obviously don't know me. Which is good.

Anonymous said...

Russian Chosid,
I read lately in a Memoir like sefer on the Sakmer ruv,by one of his Bulers,Vaishioiz,
He writes that he was once pushed to go to political event in Stakmer Romania. the Kehila leaders told him he has to go,in middkle of the event a girls choir started singing, he stayted put till the end, ran home went to the Mikveh and never used this clothes anymore.
That said, you see that he did not burst out of the event,since it is not Yeherg veal Yavoir,and stayed put.I believe should of come to the event with apair of plugs in his ear, or call in sick.... And if he cant handle it more professionally he should get out from that business, and get himself a Mashgiach Job...

Anonymous said...

tzig 4:28"נטוחי...LOL

so cant you correct it נתוחי cant u be nice for once.

Der Shygetz said...

It is very simple. The Rebbe came out against exposing kids to pictures of treyf animals.

Mickey Mouse is a mouse. A mouse is treyf. They may well recognize Mickey if they saw his pic because they've been to stores where Mickey merchandise is sold (or they may have heard that the US has a Mickey Mouse president right now), but they would not react to the name Mickey Mouse in an interview.

I was once shopping in Target when I lived in Brooklyn and I could not find ibuprofen. I have not turned on a TV in the US since Reagan was President, and back then ibuprofen was RX only. Besides, I had just come back from 13 years in Russia, where you ask for medications by their generic names. I asked the shucherke who "worked" there where I could find ibuprofen. She looked at me like I was from Mars. Probably because I read US magazines when I lived in Russia, I thought for a moment and remembered the name Advil, so the tinkele actually could tell me dat it be in aisle 3.

That's how it is with Chassidishe kids and Mickey Mouse or any other pop culture icon they may have encountered - they probably have heard of it but just don't think about it, the way I don't think about Advil or Clorox or Mehadrin or Gefen because I don't use those products where I am.

Der Shygetz said...

"My question is on the bucher'l going on about the TV. What, he doesn't watch Lireys Es Malkeynu Every Motza"sh?"
====
Choochem, you don't need a TV to watch Lireys es Malkeinu or any other frum DVD. Ever hear of a computer with a DVD player? Anyone who bought a TV in the old days for frum videos has probably replaced it with something that doesn't have TV reception. One of my friends still does have a TV because he has loads of old videos on tape, but he never connected a cable or antenna so it is basically a monitor.

Or does your hyliger Chelmisher roov ban those because you just need an Internet connection to watch Kook Klutz Karta protest videos?

Sakmer ruv
===
SATMAR. From Satu Mare, meaning big village. Satu probably comes from the same root as site. Mare is related to "major." S. Mary in Romanian would have an N in the first part and Mary is Maria in all Latin and Slavic based languages. In Hungarian S. is Szent and I guess Mary is also Maria spelled with j's or something. Enough with this Sakmer shtus. (Tzelem is another story. :))

Anonymous said...

anon 6:56, " he stayted put till the end"

The fearful Romanian King was there! מוראו של מלכית

Der Shygetz said...

In the spirit of Purimdige kanoim:

A haimishe motorist's car broke down in Ashdod, so he ran into the big Gerrer shul and asked the gabbai for help:

Eppes iz geshtorben in mayne mashina. Zi arbait nisht. Efsher ir ken mir tsi helfen....

The gabbai didn't call Yedidim or even a mechanic. He just sent out three volunteers from the chevra kadishe, who returned dumbfounded when they did not find the poor motorist's wife dead in the car!

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz: "SATMAR. From Satu Mare meaning big village"

Your פשעטל on Satu Mare not withstanding, the city is proably named after a גיפייגרט'ע גלחט'ע named Santa Maria, I assume that's why SR z"l writes סאקמיר and not סאטמער among other reasons..

Der Shygetz said...

When did the Satmar Rov ever refer to Sakmer? Every Satmar moisad has a sign marked Satmar.

Before it was coopted to Satu Mare in Romanian, the name in Hungarian referred to someone whose first name was Zotmar. No connection to any a"z anywhere.

My roots are in Szarkonosvary and Arschvary which are both in Marmaros, so I know of what I speak. (My very surname is a contraction of Shygetz Aross; I am from prime kanoishe stock.)

Anonymous said...

Anon
"The fearful Romanian King was there! מוראו של מלכית"
but according to the rishonim (nimukie yossef etc..) a chosid should sacrifice his life even non of the 3 sins,
Doesn"t he quote a Maharal in the Vayoel that u have to sacrifice your life on a midrash shir hashirim?

Anonymous said...

anon 2:15, "chosid should sacrifice his life even non of the 3 sins"

Which he did in WWII by not shaving his beared, BTW the SR did not hear any singing because he "covered his ear" , not leaving abruptly and shaming the king which could of be a סכנה על כלל ישראל not on 'him' personaly only.*

כן ארז"ל לעולם
יפיל אדם עצמו לכבשן האש ואל ילבין פני חברו ברבים

*If the story is true 'as stated' in a מעשה ביכל v"dl

Anonymous said...

you all seems to be missing the point

the show is for the "outside" world not the frumeh velt and for that world its a big kiddush hashem

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz : "When did the Satmar Rov ever refer to Sakmer?"

He writes it in some letters, and he said it verbally to.

Ende Tsadik said...

I happended to come across this clip which seems relevant in relation to Litzman's pikches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z1QMvDfdAQ&feature=related

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz: "No connection to any a"z anywhere"

Maybe so but it still sounds like "Santa Maria" so maybe that's why he pronounced it differently סאקמיר, there was other reasons to but, I'll leave that to the enemies imaginations.

Anon HaNa"L said...

Shaygetz, but to maybe have some idea that maybe he thinks there's people talking there? C'mon. He clearly has watched things on a screen (LeM) and he obviously knows that a TV is a similar concept that you watch things on a screen - he basically admits to that. So the whole playing tam is a show. No, I don't think he's ever watched TV, but he knows what one is without his theatrics

Der Shygetz said...

He knows what a TV is (and what Mickey Mouse is) the same way I know what a Tebow and a Lin are. I know they are both athletes. I am not even sure what their first names are and I don't know for certain what sport Lin plays but I think it's basketball (I probably would know offhand if I still lived in NY). He doesn't think about TVs and I don't think of Tebows or Lins. He doesn't think of his family's video setup as a TV for the same reason as I don't think of or ask for ibuprofen as Advil.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I agree with all that 100%. But maching zich nisht vissendik was a little overdone IMO