The name of the Rov that took over from the shiur of Rabbi Weinberg is Rabbi Gershon Mendel Gorelick of Italy who was guided by the Rebbe to learn that Inyan
Interesting. Although a serious Gaon and a Baal Mussar, Rav Weinberg was hardly what you would call a Charedi. You can see that from Shapiro's biography, the 2 volumes of his letters and most of all in his Shut about issues like Kol Ishah. Another strange facet in the Rebbe's biography getting ordained by a rabbi who was hardly part of the Cahredi world.
Dr. Rabbi Yechiel Jacob Weinberg, of the Hildesheimer Seminar, author of Seride Esh, who writes that he is מתיר לעשות תנועה מעורבת בחו"ל, והיו מתנגדים רבים לפסיקתו Graduated from the University of Giessen, Germany. Together with the esteemed Rabbi Posen, Can you kindly ‘post’ his doctorate and Thesis’s so we can see his depth in secular studies, and by which professor he studied there, In reference to his supposedly ordaining Rabbi M. Schneerson wouldn’t you think that ערבי, ערבי צריך ?
Germany was hardly bereft of East European rabbonim in those days. Among gedolim living there were rabbis Rabinow, Schneider Heller etcIn Frankfurt you had some very chashuve dayaanim of German extraction.And these men like rav Posen (not the Soproner)and rowav Michel Schlesinger were more charedi than rav Weinberg. Frankly you would think if the Rebbe actaully sought smicha he would get on a train to Warsaw or Lodz or Bendin or Cracow etc and obtain semicha from the Warsaw rabbinate which inluded men like Rabbi Menachem Ziemba and Rabbi Yaakov Biderman the Gerer Rebbe's shvoger among others.Or he could have gone to Munkatch and obtained semicha there or anywhere in central Euorope like Vienna Pressburg ,Nitra, the rabbinate of Pest. finally " es hoben gefelt rabbonim chashuvim in Lita or Peylin from whom to get smicha???
Ah Kahan "In reference to his supposedly ordaining Rabbi M. Schneerson wouldn’t you think that ערבי, ערבי צריך ?" so you claim that Rav Wiemberg is no rav because he paskened a certain pesak? Would you say that Reb Yechezkel Landau of Prague is no Rav because he was matir shaving on Chol Hamoed
schneuer, shapiro's biography is a hatchet job. it was well known that he suffered greatly during the war and was vey bitter imediately thereafter. the jerk shapiro published his private letters from that time, when he was not the same man. his teshuvah about kol isha (as anyone who bothers looking it up can see) is not his own heter but explains why German Jews weren't makpid on it. he did atend university , but that hardly makes him non-charedi. (if it does rav hutner was also not a charedi nor was the rebbe for that matter)
Rabbi Yechiel Weinberg was studying under prof. Paul E. Kahle. His doctoral thesis was on the topic of "Peshitta" - translation of Torah into currently dead syriac language. For unknown reason r.Weinberg never submitted his thesis, and the thesis itself was lost during the war. r.Weinberg never received Ph.D. even though prof.Kahle adressed him in letters as Doctor Weinberg. This note is addressed of course to supposedly A.H.Kahan in supposedly Dresden in supposed Germany.
I am no Lubavitcher, but Rav Weinberg's crededntials as a Talmid chochom are beyond reproach. People who were fierdige charedim who knew him would not say a word against him. Ask R' Yitzchok Scheiner or lehabl"ch the Gateshead Rov zt"l about him. His associations were only one facet of his life.
the eidah whom I haven't heard of lately when 10,000's israelis are desecrating the kevar of the רשבּ"י yearly!, when about 90% of israelis are מחל"ש and inspired by a מלכות הזלה של מינים complete with kabalah centers, is sudenly concerned that in 'their words' a “famous gentile singer” with a “Kabbalah sponsored gimmick” is desecrating the !מדינה של גיהנם
Their is no question that the lubab rebbe was an inspired selfless leader, a substantial talmid chuchem and a יפה דורש, ומקיים בּמילי דחסידות(with semicha and kebala, or not) a true בע"ת, Said this their is no question that if he would of not strayed בּעניני השיטה מן המרש"בּ והרי"י ז"ל that his influence 'worldwide' would of been way way lower! (or would it not?) But a reckoning force בּעולם החרדי, לדורות The question is wasn't his straying kind of יצא שׂכרו בּהפסידו ? and the answer is:
i never knew that it was rabbi wineberg with whom r' gershon mendel garelik had the encounter about the drosho.. sounds funny to me that r' wineberg "saved" the rebbe twice.. btw. if you're ever around r' gershon mendel its worth it to hear from him personaly the details of this story.. ah, geshmak!
Uforatzto "Said this their is no question that if he would of not strayed בּעניני השיטה מן המרש"בּ והרי"י ז"ל that his influence 'worldwide' would of been way way lower" Juvenile blah blah what if the Sakmer ruv would wear a Bentdown and be friendly with Menachem begin..... ein Kietz Ledivrie ruach.....
For those who think Charedim disowned R' Weinberg (which is simply untrue) just read the story of his burial. Bottom line is that we need Gaonim like R' Weinberg TODAY. We don't seem to have them.
Oh, and it's Sunday morning here, just in case this blog pretends it's Shabbos still.
Very interesting comments but most of you didn't get the story. RMMS needed an official government recognized certificate stating that he is a rabbi and RYYW was able to provide that as the head of the Berlin BM lerabonim. This has nothing to do with a traditional semicha. Nitpicker
סאיז נישט דא קיין שום ראי' מוכחת אז דער רבי האט באקומען סמיכה פון דעם ראגאטשאוער! נישט אז אזא סמיכה וואלט געמאכט דעם רבין העכער אין די אויגן פון זיינע חסידים. א רבי איז רבי מיט אדער אהן א סמיכה פונ'ם ראגאטשאווער... וואס איז יא דא איז אסאך בריוון וואס דער רבי האט געשריבען צום ראגאטשאווער אין לערנען נאך אין די גאר גאר יונגע יאהרן. וואס דאס איז גאר א גרויסע ראי', און באווייזט קלאר און דייטליך, אין וואס דער רבי איז געלעגען אין די יונגע יאהרען. שלא כדעת הרשעים המנוולים וואס פראבירען בכל כוחם אויפצווייזען פארקערט רח"ל, אין די טפשים ואטומי מוח פון מחנה הליטאי נעמען דאס אן מיט אפענע הענט.. וד"ל
I once heard this story from R' Gershon Mendel Gorelik himslf, and if I remember correctly, the details here are a little off. The way I recall the story, the Rav that gave the drosho was not Rav Weinberg. Additionally, the Rav that spoke didnt leave the podium because he had forgot his Shiur, rather he had fainted, and was unable to continue. However R' Weinberg was there at the event and he was very impressed with R' Goreliks display. Rav Weinberg then called R' Gorelik into his office and told him how impressed he was, and due to his apparent Geonus, he can ask him any Sha'alo he wants. R' Gorelik told him that he only has one question, and asked about the Rebbe's Smicha. Rav Weinberg confirmed the story.
a few comments 1. anonymous a few comments up spelled out the obvious, which many commenters missed out on - the smiche from sridei eish was for a practical need which r weinberg could satisfay so r' schneur shouldnt wonder why the rebbe chose him and not gedoyley lite and peyln. 3. i havent yet found much evidence re smiche from the Rogachover. what I did see is a copy ( soon to be printed in a book of new doccuments ) of a smiche the rebbe received when he was around 20 from his uncle the Nikolayever Rov R Shmuel ( gaan hageoynim ). the smiche is yodin yodin and states that the recipient is boki be daled chelkey shu"o veyodea lesader gitin vechalitze
פון'ם בריוו איז משמע אז זיי האבען געהאלטען א חילופי מכתבים אין דעם סוגיא, וכידוע אז אין ליובאוויטשער סמיכה פארהערט מען אויף הלכות טריפות אלץ איינער פון די פיר חלקים אין'ם סמיכה פארהער.
בשעת דער בריוו איז ערשט ארויס (אין'ם ספר סיומי הרמב’ם, לערך תשמ’ט), האב איך באגעגענט הגאון המפורסם מו''ר ר''פ הירשפרונג ז''ל אבדק''ק ד'מאנטריאל אין 770, און איך האב עם געפרעגט צי ער האט שוין געזען דעם בריוו, און ער האט גע'ענטפערט, יא. האב איך עם ווייטער געפרעגט, ''נו, וואס טראכט איר דערפון?’' האט ער ''!גע'ענטפערט , ''ממש גאונות
עטלעכער יאר שפעטער, ווען רב הירשפרונג האט מיר פארהערט אין סמיכה (היות אז דער ר''י ר' פיעקארסקי איז דאמאלסט אוועק האט מען געבראכט ר' הירשפרונג פון קאנאדא צו ענדיקן פארהערן די וואס האבען אנגעהויבען מיט'ן ר''י – אזוי האב איך זוכה געווען צו באקומען סמיכה פון ביידעם), האט ער גערעט וועגען דעם רבי'נס גרויסער כח אין תורה, און ,קוקענדיק אויף מיר די גאנצע צייט, דערמאנט דעם בריוו אלץ א דוגמא פון'ם רבי'נס גאונות – כאילו מרמז צו זיין צו מיר אז מ'האט שוין גערעט צוווישן זיך דערפון יארן פריער.
"So he can hang out a sign on the lower east side for a little parnusah." ---------------
I think it was a norm in those days for local rabunim to hang out little signs that they do giten, kidishen vechalitze, because of the WWII atrocity the demand was high!
The Rebbe himself verified that he received smicha from the rogatchover, because the Rebbe verified his own biography to be printed in the beginning of hayom yom, together with the biographies of all the Rebbe's of Chabad, and over there it says for the year pey hey, 1925, that he meets the Rogachover Gain, and receives Smicha from him. Copies of the Rebbe's corrections have been printed in a booklet called "shalsheles hayachas".
To ופרצת The Rebbe was no baal teshuva, although i am sure he has the qualities of one, because he never did any aveiros. If you want to connect to hashem, to feel hashems presence, the only way to is to connect to tzadikim in general, and the chabad Rebbe in particular (Chabad's way is much more internal, and affects you on a much deeper level).
Hard to beleive that the rebbi has the 2 mentioned simchas... Proof... That c miller in his haliography doesn't bring it whole he brings every story he heard in. The bal tshuva mikva in safat...
I am in the middle of the c miller book now... It's hard to beleive the mofet of the rebbi and areil sharon but like my mashpia says... So what.. 1 less mofet
If its hard to believe that the rebbe has these smichas, its hard to believe you know much about the rebbe or learnt his torah. Especially the rebbe had a unique relationship with the rogatchover, mentions by farbrengens a few times a special relationship, and just a personal outcome , the rebbe kept the rogatchovers sforim in his desk drawer
45 comments:
do your stats show any slowdown? more pc browsing, less mobiles?
פארקערט...
The name of the Rov that took over from the shiur of Rabbi Weinberg is Rabbi Gershon Mendel Gorelick of Italy who was guided by the Rebbe to learn that Inyan
Problem is they all try to discredit the Sridei Eish.
Fancy allowing a male and female voice together
Interesting. Although a serious Gaon and a Baal Mussar, Rav Weinberg was hardly what you would call a Charedi. You can see that from Shapiro's biography, the 2 volumes of his letters and most of all in his Shut about issues like Kol Ishah.
Another strange facet in the Rebbe's biography getting ordained by a rabbi who was hardly part of the Cahredi world.
were was the rebbe then?
was their any charadie rav there?
people are funny.
How many years removed from Slabodka was RYYW then? who should the Rebbe have gone to in Berlin? The Dombrover Rebbe?
Dr. Rabbi Yechiel Jacob Weinberg, of the Hildesheimer Seminar, author of Seride Esh, who writes that he is מתיר לעשות תנועה מעורבת בחו"ל, והיו מתנגדים רבים לפסיקתו Graduated from the University of Giessen, Germany. Together with the esteemed Rabbi Posen, Can you kindly ‘post’ his doctorate and Thesis’s so we can see his depth in secular studies, and by which professor he studied there, In reference to his supposedly ordaining Rabbi M. Schneerson wouldn’t you think that ערבי, ערבי צריך ?
A.H. Kahan
Dresden, Germany
"הירשל ציג: "פארקערט
עולם הפוך ראיתי , אַוויא פארקערט איז אויך גיפאר'ן
Germany was hardly bereft of East European rabbonim in those days. Among gedolim living there were rabbis Rabinow, Schneider Heller etcIn Frankfurt you had some very chashuve dayaanim of German extraction.And these men like rav Posen (not the Soproner)and rowav Michel Schlesinger were more charedi than rav Weinberg.
Frankly you would think if the Rebbe actaully sought smicha he would get on a train to Warsaw or Lodz or Bendin or Cracow etc and obtain semicha from the Warsaw rabbinate which inluded men like Rabbi Menachem Ziemba and Rabbi Yaakov Biderman the Gerer Rebbe's shvoger among others.Or he could have gone to Munkatch and obtained semicha there or anywhere in central Euorope like Vienna Pressburg ,Nitra, the rabbinate of Pest.
finally " es hoben gefelt rabbonim chashuvim in Lita or Peylin from whom to get smicha???
Ah Kahan
"In reference to his supposedly ordaining Rabbi M. Schneerson wouldn’t you think that ערבי, ערבי צריך ?"
so you claim that Rav Wiemberg is no rav because he paskened a certain pesak?
Would you say that Reb Yechezkel Landau of Prague is no Rav because he was matir shaving on Chol Hamoed
So you the Rebbe got smicha by circumstance, and a doctoral degree by choice. A bit backwards, no?
A H Kahan
Are you that arrogant that you can question a giant in torah as Rav wienberg?
what are your credentials?
Is this a reprint of the originals on Shas or a new volume?
schneuer,
shapiro's biography is a hatchet job. it was well known that he suffered greatly during the war and was vey bitter imediately thereafter. the jerk shapiro published his private letters from that time, when he was not the same man.
his teshuvah about kol isha (as anyone who bothers looking it up can see) is not his own heter but explains why German Jews weren't makpid on it.
he did atend university , but that hardly makes him non-charedi. (if it does rav hutner was also not a charedi nor was the rebbe for that matter)
Rabbi Yechiel Weinberg was studying under prof. Paul E. Kahle. His doctoral thesis was on the topic of "Peshitta" - translation of Torah into currently dead syriac language. For unknown reason r.Weinberg never submitted his thesis, and the thesis itself was lost during the war. r.Weinberg never received Ph.D. even though prof.Kahle adressed him in letters as Doctor Weinberg.
This note is addressed of course to supposedly A.H.Kahan in supposedly Dresden in supposed Germany.
Hello! anybody here? the last one leaving must of forgot to put the lites out! is it the kinus flu.. and I'm the only snag left?
I am no Lubavitcher, but Rav Weinberg's crededntials as a Talmid chochom are beyond reproach. People who were fierdige charedim who knew him would not say a word against him. Ask R' Yitzchok Scheiner or lehabl"ch the Gateshead Rov zt"l about him. His associations were only one facet of his life.
שומו שמים! יודלעך שרייט עד מתי! ל'העדה
the eidah whom I haven't heard of lately when 10,000's israelis are desecrating the kevar of the רשבּ"י yearly!, when about 90% of israelis are מחל"ש and inspired by a מלכות הזלה של מינים complete with kabalah centers, is sudenly concerned that in 'their words' a “famous gentile singer” with a “Kabbalah sponsored gimmick” is desecrating the !מדינה של גיהנם
Their is no question that the lubab rebbe was an inspired selfless leader, a substantial talmid chuchem and a יפה דורש, ומקיים בּמילי דחסידות(with semicha and kebala, or not) a true בע"ת, Said this their is no question that if he would of not strayed בּעניני השיטה מן המרש"בּ והרי"י ז"ל that his influence 'worldwide' would of been way way lower! (or would it not?) But a reckoning force בּעולם החרדי, לדורות The question is wasn't his straying kind of יצא שׂכרו בּהפסידו ? and the answer is:
i never knew that it was rabbi wineberg with whom r' gershon mendel garelik had the encounter about the drosho.. sounds funny to me that r' wineberg "saved" the rebbe twice.. btw. if you're ever around r' gershon mendel its worth it to hear from him personaly the details of this story.. ah, geshmak!
Uforatzto
"Said this their is no question that if he would of not strayed בּעניני השיטה מן המרש"בּ והרי"י ז"ל that his influence 'worldwide' would of been way way lower"
Juvenile blah blah
what if the Sakmer ruv would wear a Bentdown and be friendly with Menachem begin.....
ein Kietz Ledivrie ruach.....
yakov: "This note is addressed of course to supposedly A.H.Kahan in supposedly Dresden in supposed Germany."
By supposedly yakov?
vaytzileny ze paamoim: "vaytzileny ze paamoim said"
?ויצילנו זה פּעמים
or is it !ויעקבני זה פעמיים
Tibi Lotzi: "ein Kietz Ledivrie ruach....."
not even to yours ?
tibi lotzi: "Juvenile blah blah" "what if the Sakmer ruv would wear a Bentdown"
אילו זכיתם הייתם קוראים ׳והתהלכתי בתוככם' ועכשיו שלא זכיתם הרי אתם קוראים ויצא מבת ציון כל הדרה
For those who think Charedim disowned R' Weinberg (which is simply untrue) just read the story of his burial. Bottom line is that we need Gaonim like R' Weinberg TODAY. We don't seem to have them.
Oh, and it's Sunday morning here, just in case this blog pretends it's Shabbos still.
Oh, and it's Sunday morning here, just in case this blog pretends it's Shabbos still.
Saturday, June 02, 2012 10:29:00 AM
------------
"Gaonim like R' Weinberg TODAY. We don't seem to have them" who can explain that saturday is sunday, or ומתור לעשות תנועה מעורבת בחו"ל
Am I the only Lubavitcher who is uncomfortable with the Garelik drosho story?
Very interesting comments but most of you didn't get the story. RMMS needed an official government recognized certificate stating that he is a rabbi and RYYW was able to provide that as the head of the Berlin BM lerabonim.
This has nothing to do with a traditional semicha.
Nitpicker
I thought that the Rebbe had semicha from the Rogotchover.
Why didn't the rebbe take the farher on Shulchan Aruch like everyone else?
סאיז נישט דא קיין שום ראי' מוכחת אז דער רבי האט באקומען סמיכה פון דעם ראגאטשאוער! נישט אז אזא סמיכה וואלט געמאכט דעם רבין העכער אין די אויגן פון זיינע חסידים. א רבי איז רבי מיט אדער אהן א סמיכה פונ'ם ראגאטשאווער... וואס איז יא דא איז אסאך בריוון וואס דער רבי האט געשריבען צום ראגאטשאווער אין לערנען נאך אין די גאר גאר יונגע יאהרן. וואס דאס איז גאר א גרויסע ראי', און באווייזט קלאר און דייטליך, אין וואס דער רבי איז געלעגען אין די יונגע יאהרען. שלא כדעת הרשעים המנוולים וואס פראבירען בכל כוחם אויפצווייזען פארקערט רח"ל, אין די טפשים ואטומי מוח פון מחנה הליטאי נעמען דאס אן מיט אפענע הענט.. וד"ל
I once heard this story from R' Gershon Mendel Gorelik himslf, and if I remember correctly, the details here are a little off. The way I recall the story, the Rav that gave the drosho was not Rav Weinberg. Additionally, the Rav that spoke didnt leave the podium because he had forgot his Shiur, rather he had fainted, and was unable to continue. However R' Weinberg was there at the event and he was very impressed with R' Goreliks display. Rav Weinberg then called R' Gorelik into his office and told him how impressed he was, and due to his apparent Geonus, he can ask him any Sha'alo he wants. R' Gorelik told him that he only has one question, and asked about the Rebbe's Smicha. Rav Weinberg confirmed the story.
Am Alimiesher
"Why didn't the rebbe take the farher on Shulchan Aruch like everyone else?"
because the Rebbe was not like somebody else......
a few comments
1. anonymous a few comments up spelled out the obvious, which many commenters missed out on - the smiche from sridei eish was for a practical need which r weinberg could satisfay so r' schneur shouldnt wonder why the rebbe chose him and not gedoyley lite and peyln.
3. i havent yet found much evidence re smiche from the Rogachover. what I did see is a copy ( soon to be printed in a book of new doccuments ) of a smiche the rebbe received when he was around 20 from his uncle the Nikolayever Rov R Shmuel ( gaan hageoynim ). the smiche is yodin yodin and states that the recipient is boki be daled chelkey shu"o veyodea lesader gitin vechalitze
לכבוד ר' טועים/תועים,
הגם אז מיר האבען נישט געזען קיין שום אפיציעלער סמיכה פאפיר פון'ם ראגעטשאווער צום רבי’ן, מיר האבען אבער יא בנמצא א זייער אינטערעסאנטער בריוו פון'ם רבי’ן צום ראג' גאון אין'ם סוגיא פון טריפה חוזרת להכשירה והמסתעף. http://chabadlibrary.org/books/עי' אגרות קודש חכ'’א אג' ז'תשנט
פון'ם בריוו איז משמע אז זיי האבען געהאלטען א חילופי מכתבים אין דעם סוגיא, וכידוע אז אין ליובאוויטשער סמיכה פארהערט מען אויף הלכות טריפות אלץ איינער פון די פיר חלקים אין'ם סמיכה פארהער.
בשעת דער בריוו איז ערשט ארויס (אין'ם ספר סיומי הרמב’ם, לערך תשמ’ט), האב איך באגעגענט הגאון המפורסם מו''ר ר''פ הירשפרונג ז''ל אבדק''ק ד'מאנטריאל אין 770, און איך האב עם געפרעגט צי ער האט שוין געזען דעם בריוו, און ער האט גע'ענטפערט, יא. האב איך עם ווייטער געפרעגט, ''נו, וואס טראכט איר דערפון?’' האט ער
''!גע'ענטפערט , ''ממש גאונות
עטלעכער יאר שפעטער, ווען רב הירשפרונג האט מיר פארהערט אין סמיכה (היות אז דער ר''י ר' פיעקארסקי איז דאמאלסט אוועק האט מען געבראכט ר' הירשפרונג פון קאנאדא צו ענדיקן פארהערן די וואס האבען אנגעהויבען מיט'ן ר''י – אזוי האב איך זוכה געווען צו באקומען סמיכה פון ביידעם), האט ער גערעט וועגען דעם רבי'נס גרויסער כח אין תורה, און ,קוקענדיק אויף מיר די גאנצע צייט, דערמאנט דעם בריוו אלץ א דוגמא פון'ם רבי'נס גאונות – כאילו מרמז צו זיין צו מיר אז מ'האט שוין גערעט צוווישן זיך דערפון יארן פריער.
-- ZIY
"yodin yodin - veyodea lesader gitin vechalitze"
So he can hang out a sign on the lower east side for a little parnusah.
yodin yodin said...
"yodin yodin - veyodea lesader gitin vechalitze"
"So he can hang out a sign on the lower east side for a little parnusah."
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I think it was a norm in those days for local rabunim to hang out little signs that they do giten, kidishen vechalitze, because of the WWII atrocity the demand was high!
tomoshaver said...
A H Kahan
Are you that arrogant that you can question a giant in torah as Rav wienberg?
what are your credentials?
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Sorry I wasn't born in tomo-shov
and i wasn't born yesterday either.
The Rebbe himself verified that he received smicha from the rogatchover, because the Rebbe verified his own biography to be printed in the beginning of hayom yom, together with the biographies of all the Rebbe's of Chabad, and over there it says for the year pey hey, 1925, that he meets the Rogachover Gain, and receives Smicha from him. Copies of the Rebbe's corrections have been printed in a booklet called "shalsheles hayachas".
In general the comments here have to be written with much more kavod for the Rebbe.
To ופרצת
The Rebbe was no baal teshuva, although i am sure he has the qualities of one, because he never did any aveiros. If you want to connect to hashem, to feel hashems presence, the only way to is to connect to tzadikim in general, and the chabad Rebbe in particular (Chabad's way is much more internal, and affects you on a much deeper level).
Hard to beleive that the rebbi has the 2 mentioned simchas... Proof... That c miller in his haliography doesn't bring it whole he brings every story he heard in. The bal tshuva mikva in safat...
I am in the middle of the c miller book now... It's hard to beleive the mofet of the rebbi and areil sharon but like my mashpia says... So what.. 1 less mofet
If its hard to believe that the rebbe has these smichas, its hard to believe you know much about the rebbe or learnt his torah. Especially the rebbe had a unique relationship with the rogatchover, mentions by farbrengens a few times a special relationship, and just a personal outcome , the rebbe kept the rogatchovers sforim in his desk drawer
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