בס"ד
הנה באסיפת מנהלי הישיבות מאלו שחתמו על הכתב שלא ליקח "מפעדערישן-גרוס" דרך "דזש. ע. ס." נוטה דעת כל אלו שנוכחו על האסיפה שגם כסף של "קרן הפעדערישן-גרוס" שייך לזה ונכון הדבר שלא ליקחם
בעה"ח, יום ה' חקת תשל"א
משה פיינשטיין - גדלי' הלוי שארר - לוי קרופעני - צבי מאיר גינזבורג - עקיבא עהרנפעלד - אליהו יהושע געלדצעהלער
It's been discussed in the comments for some time. One commenter was kind enough to send me the כתב יד to prove his point. I'm a little perplexed by this letter, since we all know that the Joint and the Federation are MAJOR supporters of VERY Charedi mosdos until today. Judge for yourselves.
39 comments:
I'm not sure where you were discussing this issue until now, but this letter is quite a find!
Hirshel
dont be gullible to fall in his trap,
It is written that they dont want to take the fedaration money thru a certain channel J A S..
Only a old aguda Veteeran Like Yossef 718 would know the deatails.. but you see that the will take Fedaration money direct from the source...Its all satmar smoke and mirrors..Its exactly what they do with letters of Rav Duschinsky, who was rosh of agudas Yisroel in Palestine who wrote letters against money from Vaad Leumi, and the same with the Chazon Ish..
Ze Darkom Kesel Lomoi
our holy master the godel hador the great manhig of bobov and the chassidic world in geneal did not sign this - even thought any little matter of klal yisroel was brought & discussed with him.
nor did belz of today sign, well the skvere rebbi of springvalley did not sign (i dont thing anybody cares much about what he has in mind).
Vos meint "דזש. ע. ס."?
BTW How are you re: Sandy?
I am still sans power. staying with relatives.
They expect a big "Nor'easter" here next week.
שהשם ישמור
Tzig: "One commenter was kind enough to send me the כתב יד to prove his point. Judge for yourselves"
"One commenter was kind enough"
Thanks Hirshel,
tibi lotzi II.
Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
I am still sans power.
Sans power? the bobov or klus kind?
SDR said... "BTW How are you
re: Sandy?"
Sandy who?
tibi lotzi morphed into Moshe Blau said: "Only a old aguda Veteran Like Yossef 718 would know the deatails" (and,whatever)
עמא פזיזא דקדמיתא פומא לאודייכו אכתי בפחזותא קיימיתו
FEDERATION, American Jewish Federation.
JEC, (Jewish Education Commite) a Subsidary of American Jewish Federation.
JOINT, American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee – סוכנות.
HIAS, Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society.
UJA, (United Jewish Appeal).
UJA became the umbrella for all the above committees, and distributes a predetermined amount of dollars to the other commitees yearly, so they will not interfere with UJA’s master schnur campaign.
When the Federation became a subsidiary of UJA, and than created the JEC, (Jewish Education Committee) a subsidiary of the Federation, (The Federation is an umbrella for all their activities, JEC is for education only) as a result In about year תש"ל all prominent litvish and chasidish rabunim in NY signed a declaration forbidding frum schools from taking any Federation / JEC help (there is a separate printed letter from the skullener ruv z”l forbidding the Federation the mother of JEC)
In תשי"ט satmar ruv forbade his schools to take any JEC help, and directed his schools to appeal direct to Albany NY for help, (since a big part of JEC budget came from Albany) Albany agreed and all frum schools in NY became part of this, taking help direct from Albany instead of thru the ostracized JEC. That held on for many years until תשל"א
In about תשל"א a religious man named Joseph Gross who used to contribute to UJA millions of dollars decided to give to the JEC program 150 million dollars! To a special JEC fund called Federation-Gross, now the frum schools wanted to participate in this so called separate fund! On that issue the rabunim came out with a declaration that Federation/Gross is the same as Federation/JEC and is forbidden to take any help from them.
אי לאו האי יומא.. דקא גרים כמה יוסף ב718 איכא בשוקא
Moshe Blau said:"Ze Darkom Kesel Lomoi"
גמ' במס' סוכה דף מח' הנהו תרי מיני חד שמיה ששון, וחד שמיה שמחה, אמר ליה ששון לשמחה אנא עדיפנא מינך דכתיב: ששון ושמחה ישיגו וגו', אמר ליה שמחה לששון: אנא עדיפנא מינך, דכתיב: שמחה וששון ליהודים
פי' מהרש"א, כך דרך המינים לפרש הכתובים על עצמם לפי סכלותם והבלם
http://moshemoshel72.blogspot.com/2012/11/blog-post.html?m=1
Thanks yehuda 305, is that your dorm room number?
Yehuda
"In תשי"ט satmar ruv forbade his schools to take any JEC help, and directed his schools to appeal direct to Albany NY for help"
I think that you are confusing the JEC with BJE thjat all mosdois in brooklyn get their food programs fron them thru Albany. This is straright Albany/USDA program that BJE is handling and are charging a certain fee.
According to Hertz Frankels memoirs(printed in AMI) Satmar stopped using them in the early years. I believe you are confused.
I still dont believe that all those roshie Yeshivahs did not take from the fedaration.
Its a lie like all the Satmar Lies, I know that even Mosdois like Krasna,Tzelem,Pupa who were affiliated with satmar (mipnie Yiras Heonesh) were getting Gruss/Fedaration funds for Kitchens busses, Bonuses for good teachers, from the fedaration. This letter is a particular incident that they did not want to take .
The only 1 on the list that is alive is Rav Geldzheler, and resides now in Monsey, maybe Hirshel could ask him the details.
Moshe (Nivul Peh)
please dont portray yourself on the Satmar side with nivul peh... for many jews it amswers the Velts Kasha, why only Satmar needed the shovavim torahs on such a big scale...RJT knew his crowd
Moshe Blau said... "Moshe (Nivul Peh) please dont portray yourself on the Satmar side with nivul peh"
Here he comes again the showing of his illiteracy.
According to Sherry Leffert of Cambridge, Mass. (not from satmar)
and i quote:
"To call someone a “Moishe Pupik” in Yiddish is to accuse him of being aggravatingly or comically self-important"
"the little guy who wants to be a big shot, the kid who pisses in his pants, the someone who is a bit ridiculous, a bit funny"
"the lasting imprint of the fetus who was somehow oneself without actually being anyone at all"
"the teacher of young schoolchildren was called Moshe Pupik, or Moshe the Stomach; and Mordechai Pupik was the name given to the brother of Moshe Pupik…. The teachers Moshe and Mordechai were very heavy men and so were called Pupik.”
"The melamed was called that, not because he put on inappropriately grand airs ח"ו, but because he had a big stomach"
!עכ"ל הקדישה
Moshe heiliger, i fail to see any nuval peh here! actually a gizzard is a pupik! in yidish which is a stomach, which my mama used to send me with to the dyan! ask a shila on it! if it has a hole in it, did your mama ever asked you to do that?! if not yours must be with out any holes in it!!
moshemoshel : "Thanks yehuda 305, is that your dorm room number?"
Or prison cell # perhaps?
יהודה305 ויוסף718 ניגשים זה לזה, ויגש אליו יהודה
Moshe Blau said.: "for many jews it amswers the Velts Kasha, why only Satmar needed the shovavim torahs on such a big scale...RJT knew his crowd"
He certainly did, and knew your crowd to! He said (on tape) circa 50's by an אסיפת מלמדים asking them to "talk about preventing molestation" of children! And he mentions that he talked to other rhasi hayshivous here in america! about this issue! who told them:
"we don't talk to our children about this.. because there is nothing we can do!! it's human nature.., Than I (he) decided if so rc"l atleast let me TALK! about it!!!" I mean let them atleast know of the atrocity!"
As for the Velts (klotz) Kasha of yours!
הזוהר הקדוש כ' זעירין אינין שנשמרים מזה החטא! הראשית חכמה כ' כמעט אין גם א' בדורו שניצל מזה החטא! מ"מ כתב ספרו הק', למי? כנראה שהיה לו חסידי סאטמאר ג"כ שעכ"פ ידעו מצבם הקשה
But don't despair b"h we have Solomon Schechter Day Schools, torah vadaat, etc. etc. etc. holy kids with live cheer leaders to cheer them.. and of course kosher TV and Movies etc. kids who are sober and clean like אדם הראשון קודם החטא and we have idiots like you who don't know the differnce between a
!פי הטבעת ופי האתון. והמב"י
tzig: "Federation" 1971 איסור "
-Was there a היתר since '71 ?
-Is the איסור a dated one ?
-If so why ? when ? by whom ?
-Is the איסור reasoning only USA?
-On what was the איסור based on ?
-Or was it a comon sense law ?
-Is the Irsraeli goverment less zionist than the american conservative zionim ? Aren't The american conservatives lately more J Street than AIPAC ?!
!שבעה דברים בחכם וחילופיהם בגולם
משכיל אחד שאל את רבי איזיל חריף מסלונים: 'שבעה דברים בחכם וחילופיהם בגולם'.- למה לא נאמר להפך? - ' שבעה דברים בגולם וחילופיהם בחכם'? השיבו ר' איזיל: - מעצם השאלה אתה יכול להבין התירוץ, כי איך שיאמרו במשנה תמיד ישאל הגולם למה לא להפך
bobov chusid,
you have zero idea what this document is about,
second of all, ryakov yosef of new square never signed any think, so this document would be different.
regarding bobov i dont know, but surley he was not the `buck stops here`, i mean yes some politicians came to him for an indorsment but nothing more tham that. please dont over do it. like with what was he a godel? hadoe for sure not!
bobov chusid said: 77079396100032
How come a bobover ID's with 770! didn't the bobver leave CH and left us 770! isolated alone?!
ps: i know that belz was a little shtetl with a lot of mud! and an eGo as big as the bears! ok.
"our holy master the godel hador the great manhig of bobov and the chassidic world in geneal did not sign this - even thought any little matter of klal yisroel was brought & discussed with him. "
Thanks for laugh.
because one idiot bobov chusid over does it, this doesn`t mean the responders have to go out and attack bobov. after all the bobov rebbi was a nice man.
by the way i"m still trying to know to which side he belong to 48 or 45.
correct said: "by the way i"m still trying to know to which side he belong to 48 or 45. "
אין בו מים עליונים למים תחתונים אלא כמלא נימה
correction:
אין בין מים עליונים למים תחתונים אלא כמלא נימה
Moshe Blau said:
"Sunday, November 04, 2012 11:39:00 AM"
Q. Hirshel do i really have to answer to this moshe pupik talk! or can i ignore him for once?
"affiliated with satmar (mipnie Yiras Heonesh)"
מתוך דבוה"ק במכתב מהרה"ק מוהרצ"ה מזידיטשוב זצ"ל להרה"ק מאפטא בעל אוהב ישראל זצ"ל זי"ע
... לפלפל בזה עם אדמו"ר בדור הזה אני מתירא מן התלמידים, וכמו שאמר רבי כשהלכתי ללמוד תורה אצל ר"א בן שמוע חברו עלי תלמידים וכו'... ע"כ
יבמות ע"ז
אמר רבא מלמד שחגר חרבו כישמעאל ואמר כל מי שאינו שומע הלכה זו ידקר בחרב
"The only 1 on the list that is alive is Rav Geldzheler, and resides now in Monsey, maybe Hirshel could ask him the details."
---------
Are the others more dead than the chzon ish? ved"l
Lotzi talk: "The only 1 on the list that is alive is Rav Geldzheler"
------------
Sooner than later they will all be dead! and poor lotzi will rely for his venom! On baba masa biclech stories or on his I. rotten-berg teachings! ,!שלא היה ולא נברא as always he does.
Lubab chsidus, although they have some good teachings, minhagim, and good based mesorh! But they floundered it! and switched to a rebbe or personality based chasidus which will and must ultimately die naturally! (hence the meshcist craze will survive, logically similar to the אותו איש craze) than they will have real issues!!!
The others... like belz have the opposite problem! it looks like its rebbe based, But the opposite is true, they eradicated their old rebbes like RYD philosophies (except r"h חוב קדוש of course) to make room for the new! The same will happen with the current one! Live by the sword die by the sword!
On the litvish phenomenon Gedolim based! which was kidnaped by the Agudah and such, all their so called Gedolim are party gedolim only! You will never see a brisker type or a litvish yerushliem Kenui type godol!!! It’s a non starter they are not even livish anymore just :
!יונקים מהאחוריים ממה שנשאר בחסידות
Bobov-Pupa-Zelim and many the likes.. (even some viznitz) have it somehow! And why? Because although they maintain their own personality! But they never fought satmar and even embraced satmar Lite!
That leaves you with Satmar original! Although very much rebbe based to, and rightly so, But in addition there is an abandonment of a:
ירושה, מתורותיו, מסורותיו, מנהגיו, דרכיו והוראתיו, בצירוף לדבריו דברי א' חיים! על טעיפס
on most or all current event issues, on the so called jewish street! that can't easly be falsafied! (not to mention gelbman's books which relies on matter more than on spirit.., no matter how many volumes, it doesn't even touch on his personality in the spirit of: אדמך אכנך ולא ידעתיך)
So my comrades dont be congenital deaf dumb and blind! deal with it! because sooner or later you will!
!כי הוא חי וקים נורא ומרום וקדוש
rav getzel said: "But in addition there is an *abandonment of a:
ירושה, מתורותיו, מסורותיו, מנהגיו, דרכיו והוראתיו, בצירוף לדבריו דברי א' חיים! על טעיפס "
------------
correction:
*
ABUNDANCE
"because one idiot bobov chusid over does it, this doesn`t mean the responders have to go out and attack bobov. after all the bobov rebbi was a nice man."
Not attacking the Bobov Rebbe. He WAS a nice man. Not a Godol. And wasnt considered one ANYWHERE other than Bobov. That is the idea I am attacking
Rav Getzel
Its amazing nobody looks for Satmar for guidance in the Hanhoga, even there affiliates as toildos aron and duschinsky try to stay away from them, they would go to France and Brazil and not lick the Satmarer farshtinkene gevirim, who will suck a ounce of Blood before he gives his 500 dollars. The Toldois Aron Family and chasidin consider Satmat as A meat warehouse, with no Ruchnius or spirituality what so ever. They are embarrassed that they have to be associated with Satmar.
When is the last time you saw a bochur or avriech talmid chochem to join the Satmar Ranks.
All your pilpulim about Belz Pupa Visnitz is typical Tietelbaum style pilpul shel hevel.
Rav Getzel
"רושה, מתורותיו, מסורותיו, מנהגיו, דרכיו והוראתיו, בצירוף לדבריו דברי א' חיים! על טעיפ"
simple question,
Which sefer is learned more outside of the Chasidus own Perimeter,
Nesivas Shulem Or Divrie Yoel?
Divrie Yoel has no spiritual value for the Shocher Torah Vetoshia, it is a old fashioned outdated pilpul sefer, as the Zera Berech,Tzintzenes Menachem,(dont get me wrong they are chosheve seforim) in Satmar they are stuck with it.
Rav Getzel
" It’s a non starter they are not even livish anymore just :"
Litvishkiet is measured by your membership card in the Aguda?
Satmar Hevel Ureus ruach, that poshet make you into a laughing stock
Shomer emunim said... bla bla bla
Isn't the tireless spiritual Shomer Emunim rebbe z"l reb avraham Yitzcok Kohn z"l the most outright sample of a true satmar talmid and cusid!?
היינו דאמרי אינשי, מיניה וביה אבא ליזיל ביה נרגא
רש"י
אבא יער מעצמו של יער יכנס בתוך הגרזן להיות בית יד ויקצצו בו את היער
see the light and join us talmiday Pshischa! none of this tzaddikism nonsense. (though admittedly it has its place).
I used to hold highly of shomre emumim... till i found out what went on among his sons and that he made one of them a rebbe despite his arayos r"l.
Shomer Kishuin
the son who just passed on was called Shomer Emunim, not the SIL
Even the SIL Kohn did not follow the Satmar Hate and Slash dogma.He befriended and was Buttel to all tzadikim out of the Sakmare Hemisphere as the Bies Yisroel, The Klausenburger,Imrie Chaim of Visnitz,Lubavicher Rebbe so on and on.
Plus, Shomer Emunim was a rishon the name was hijacked by Reb Aron Roth another nirdaf from the Satmar hate brigades.
If u mention שומר אמונים , does anyone remember when he abd his thugs destroged the בית יעקב הישן in 1973-4?
I used to hold highly of shomre emumim... till i found out what went on among his sons and that he made one of them a rebbe despite his arayos r"l.
--
He was an old man, and someone duped him - in any case, so what if this oisvorf is a rebbe - who will go to him for brochos? Mondrowitz ShR"Y the next time his extradition comes up? The next Shas MK who ends up in trouble? All of Pinto's old Chassidim who will never see him again now that he's jumped bail?
ShpitzChabad said.: "He was an old man, and someone duped him - in any case, so what if this oisvorf is a rebbe"
!שייגץ איינער, הוי זהור בגחלתן
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