Thursday, November 29, 2012

So... you wanna know what I think about the Weberman trial, eh? One thing's for sure, a fair trial he'll never get, even if it is being judged in court! And I could care less what Yankee Horowitz says.


















All the supporters of the victim already decided that he's guilty, just because. The press is calling him a "monster-Rabbi." The allegations are already fact. So what chance does he REALLY have. IMVHO it's only a question of how much time he'll get, not whether or not he'll get time. And I really don't know if he did it or not.

75 comments:

Shmuel said...

I guess some of the time can be for chopping off R' Pinye's beard.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

who knows...

Shmuel said...

Let him serve time for illegally recording her.

As the evidence will prove, the man in a monster and deserves to be locked up.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

You see? you too already decided.

Can't understand said...

Many do care what Rabbi Horowitz wrote. Anyways, I simply can not understand where all the laws of yichud went to. Do they not apply to these people?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yes, but he's not on trial for yichud here. And what about her parents, why did they allow the yichud to happen? But we're getting off the point here. It's not about the yichud, is it?

Avrumele said...

There were several of his victims present in court.

Anonymous said...

who cut reb pinye's beared?

Anonymous said...

Who said he violated the laws of Yichud? this is only based on the story she is telling lets give him a chance to defend himself and then see if there was any yichud there.

Guravitzer said...

Reb Tzig, here's a handy manual for checking if these complaints are legitimate.

1 accuser: Iffy, he says she says.

2-3 accusers: Stronger case, depends on reliability of victims etc.

4+ accusers: The guy did it. Give it up.

Call it Raglayaim LaDovor.

In his case, 4+, so give it up.



Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you heard about 4+ accusers of NW?

מורדיא דלברות said...

See my post on this. Weberman is bad news. העמיד דברו על דברי all of the cover ups. For shame.

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

Hirshel,

I am disappointed. You have evaded adressing the various molesting cases afflicting the community until you finally address one case and then it is to say, "He won't get a fair trial."

Actually, he is lucky that most of his victims will never go public for all the usual reasons we know so much about. I have been in touch with multiple victims. Pearl Engelman, a respected member in Satmar Williamsburg reported speaking to 8 victims. Yankey Horowitz reported speaking to 4 victims all describing the same MO. The DA claims to have spoken to 6 other victims who were not willing to testify.

The best you can do is say, who cares about Yankey Horowitz. Either attack his credibility or be silent. "Who cares" is not a rejoinder.

Juries decide cases all the time in midst of media blizzards.

Yes there are false convictions but usually they involve poor shmoes who cannot afford a lawyer. He has the best and I even know they have been paid in advance.

Hirshel, I am disappointed. There is lot I value about your blog, but your treatment of sex abuse in the frum world is abysmal.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Sorry, Yerachmiel. what can I say? I was not going to write about it all, but then I was asked in an email what I thought, and then on the way home started speaking to a very intelligent colleague who has no loyalty to the establishment, and we both agreed that this is the case here. My blog is not a rag like FM or others, I'm not here to "expose" the evils of the community. The fact that you patronize and assist FM is of greater disappointment to me.

The Bray of Fundie said...

Not much of a legal beagle but I can't for the life of me understand how webermans dream team of criminal defense attorneys did not motion for a change of venue or at least make sure that a couple of khasidim were empanled on the jury.

I agree with Tzig in that there is no way the jury as currently composed is not prejudiced against Webermen from the word go.

I disagree with Tzig as far as rabbi Horowitz. I don't think that everything he says is Toiras Loksh but I also don't think az men ken im avekmakhin with the wave of a hand.

Full disclosure. It was I who requested that Tzig post on this. Forgive me for pushing you into a bluttah.

As for me...as a member of the court of public opinion I think that weberman is guilty and a threat to public safety, but me... ken men yuh avekmakhin with the wave of a hand. As I am a rosha who is not nizhar in shmiras haloshon nor observant of בצדק תשפוט עמיתך , Also I am very naive and believe most things that I read in the papers.

In all likelihood this will be my last comment on this thread as I've been slugging it out for over an hour elsewhere קחנו משם

Ben said...

The flip side Mr Lopin is that you believe that all are guilty until proven innocent. The fact that you patronize FM demonstrates that you are not out for the victims, but only to smear the entire community. After all you are the company you keep.

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

Nechemya Weberman has a much better chance of a fair trial in court than most women in Williamsburg have of rabbonim taking action after they reported on him to them. Willi is full of rabbonim who know all about his misdeeds.

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

Apparently there is new form of guilt by association, referencing Failed Messiah. I am not sure what you mean by patronizing. I read his blog just as you do. He is driven by a hatred of the haredi world's corruption and goes overboard in some cases. Still, he is a goldmine of reporting about things we would otherwise not know about some of which are important to know. As soon as the heimish world polices its own conduct and its media honestly reports its own problems he will lose most of his audience.

I assume his audience like mine is mostly shomer shabbos because my readership drops about 90% over shabbos. Allowing for time zone differences the readership is probably over 95% shabbos observant. He reports similar numbers.

But forget about me and Shmarya/Scotty. The question is about serious levels of sex abuse that leaves a swath of destruction in its wake. The frum world barely admits of the phenomenon. But for a few brave victims none of them would reach the criminal justice system. If Weberman cared about chilul hashem and tshuvah he would have pled guilty quickly. Instead he brought the media storm down and then it was aggravated by the public fundraisers and the attempts at jury tampering. Don't blame the media, Frum Follies or Shmarya Rosenberg. Don't malign the messenger.

You can wave away the significance of Rabbi Horowitz or a jury verdict all you want. However, the reality is that more and more kids are going off the derech and they are doing it while they are younger. Some of it results from child molesting. These OTDs are not going to be successfully intimidated into keeping silent. So look at the Weberman trial as a forecast of what comes next.

ערכאות איז נישט קיין אופציע said...

@YakovHorowitz admitted today on Twitter that he took pics of defendant Weberman [to intimidate him]. https://twitter.com/yakovhorowitz/status/274235733882044416

Anonymous said...

You also have a statistic how many kids were molested and still stay on the right way ?

Anonymous said...

As far I understand most boys going off ( their/their parents) path have another reason behind it. A BAD chavrusa. And no parent can protect that. Tfila makes it.

Anonymous said...

As far I understand most boys going off ( their/their parents) path have another reason behind it. A BAD chavrusa. And no parent can protect that. Tfila makes it.

Tibi Lotzi said...

Yerachmiel
". Pearl Engelman, a respected member in Satmar Williamsburg reported speaking to 8 victims."
Respected???
I dont believe that she had 8 vitims?

Tibi Lotzi said...

Yerachmiel
" Willi is full of rabbonim who know all about his misdeeds."
a simple smear out of your cuff...

Hyman said...

I agree with you Tzig. People have made up they're mind before the guy even has a shot to defend himself. Its because guys like Lopin who are choleh leosah davar IE. jumping on the 'every black hat is a molester witch hunt' every time someone squeaks that his rebbe knipped his cheek too hard when he was in 4th grade. For all these bleeding heart whistle blower bloggers who claim to be doing for the good of frum yidden, let me just say this: There is a torah (forgot about that, huh) and the torah does not give any credibility to anyone's accusation's just because they are accusing. there has to be something else, and its called PROOF. this might be too deep for all the guys who only think with theyre bleeding hearts.
But again not everything that's in the torah has to necessarily sit well with guys like Lopin and scotty the retard.

Tibi Lotzi said...

Yerachmiel
" However, the reality is that more and more kids are going off the derech and they are doing it while they are younger"
your logic dont add up, Obviously molestation was always around and now its more policed and aired in the public , so why is OTD NOW more rampant then years ago when it was pushed under the rug????

Tibi Lotzi said...

Tibi Lotzi
"However, the reality is that more and more kids are going off the derech and they are doing it while they are younger"
how about the 2 girls that I know them and their parents that were on the wrong path, And Weberman came in to the picture and steered them right,
Both girls are married happily now with a nice family. This girls are good looking and were vulnerable souls, and it ended good. Are you ready to entertain some positive side to this sad saga.

Fed Up said...

Hyman, couldn't have said it better. We need more people like you on the blogs...

Anonymous said...

Horowitz is loved by the MO community thats where he shines and is accepted. Its a shame that he is still part of Agudah while he dosent miss an opportunity to defame the frum olam and score points with the MO crowd for being courageous.

yankel said...

Herschel, you were always better than this. The molester-obsessed society has enough fodder for their trough. Keep this blog for historical issues that affect today, just like it has been until now.

Sdk said...

I think you dropped the ball here hirshel...

1. Where could there be a more fair trial? Certainly not in a beis din...American justice system is not perfect but one of the best system there is (imho).

2. Don't thin this had a lot of media coverage prior to trial and once trial starts jurors do not read media regarding trial so not sure why you feel the jury is biased.

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

Tibi Lotzi said...
Yerachmiel
". Pearl Engelman, a respected member in Satmar Williamsburg reported speaking to 8 victims."
Respected???
I dont believe that she had 8 vitims?

TIBI- Dont belive me about Pearl. here is what she posted online with the title: How an Entire Community Of Sheep Were Deceived By Weberman! – Guest Post by Pearl Engelman
"As I write, I hold a list of 8 other victims. Can it really be that our community is so gullible as to believe the PR campaign for Weberman? Can it really be that our community is so willfully ignorant? That we WANT to believe that which makes us more comfortable despite the damage to innocent victims?" http://wp.me/pFbfD-Jo

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

There are some fundamental issues about derech eretz which applies equally across the board to include the supporters of alleged victim of Weberman.

Judge Ingram was furious when the court emptied out and it was all littered.

I posted to reprimand the attendees. I outright said, "Don't be pigs; that is Weberman's role."

There was also an inability to observe court decorum which was also led the Judge to anger. The judge should have said, "This is not like being in shul and talking during chazaras hashatz."

מיץ ענבים said...

מה נאמר לאדוני, מה נדבר, ומה נצטדק האלוקים מצא את עוון עבדיך. הננו עבדים לאדוני גם אנחנו גם
!אשר נמצא הגביע "הגויה" בידו

מ"מ ויגש אליו יהודה -- כי כמוך כפרעה! ורצה להרוג את כולם! למה
?הלא אמר האלוקים מצא את עוון עבדיך

התי' תמצא ביום כפור קטן..בב"ד של בנ"א אם 'יכפור ינצל'! אבל בב"ד של מעלה אם מודה ועוזב ירוחם! יהודה הודה רק לאדוני להקב"ה כמבואר. ואכמ"ל

I. yerach-miele said...

Yerachmiel Lopin said.: "Judge Ingram was furious when the court emptied out and it was all littered. "


!רשע למה תכה
80% off the 'Attendants' where from the so called 'educated class' read Plaintiffs side, who don't talk at 'chazaras hashatz' of course.


Anonymous said...

If yerachmiel would ever had said 1 good word about the Williamsburg community I would call it the balance mind, but ever since yerahmiel took the other side, so I would call him the obsessed Chasidic hatreds mind. Do you really think it's 3000 attending with his fundraiser don't have kids, do they want their kids to get molested, you have to admit that some people have a different point of view then Mr. Lopin. Doesn't their opinion Deserve my respect as you would like your opinion should?
My point is let us be respected Jews and respect Americans note to say a word until defense lawyers do theirs. Some facts "might" come up as we can understand from their presents silence ,
and then will talk.
And then , if such accusations will apply to you 1 day you will be granted the same patience we shell wait for your defense to speak up.
Thank you mister Lopin enjoy America.

sheep shaped said...

Lopin & Engelman et al "------"
"How an Entire Community Of Sheep Were Deceived By Weberman"
------------------

I hate to tell you both that you're not the only non deceived sheep, (in the community), but this community will not be judged by secular judges or jury's, we are bond by חוקי התורה
For good or bad!

!אין לך אלא שופט שבימיך

במסכת ראש השנה "וכי תעלה על דעתך שאדם הולך אצל הדיין שלא היה בימיו?", עונה הגמרא: "הא אין לך לילך אלא אצל שופט שבימיך. ואומר -קהלת ז' 'אל תאמר מה היה, שהימים הראשנים היו טובים מאלה? ללמדך, שגם אם גדולי הדור נראים בעיניך נמוכים בשיעור קומתם מחכמי הדורות שעברו, עליך לקבל את מרות המנהיגות הרוחנית
!שבימיך אין לך אלא שופט שבימיך

Now if you think for one second that those secular courts are better equipped to handle these cases! Think again of the hundreds and thousands of cases that the secular court system willingly or un-willingly are bogging up yearly!

But really that is beside the point! Would you ask a שאלה on a blood spot a laboratory! Who may be more correct on the results? Or any other שאלות אישות, גיטין וקדישון, היתר ואיסור וכו of course not! That's what the so called "PR campaign for Weberman" is about!!you may advocate to bring up to par the 'halachic court system' but going and accepting the outcome of secular courts especially in דיני נפשות that's as low as you can go!

ps: don't think for a second that any frum school is not doing the best to eradicate child molestation rc"l, But for gods sake! They are obligated to the rules of the torah how to handle it and yes to protect the perpetrators from the secular kangaroo like courts to.

כי לא כצורינו צורם ואויבינו פלילים, כי כשאויבינו פלילים [היינו דיינים] זו היא עדות לעילוי יראתם

ש"ע: סימן כו, הלכות דיינים
אסור לדון בפני דייני גויים ובערכאות שלהם פי׳ מושב קבוע לשרים לדון בו אפילו בדין שדנים כדיני ישראל ואפילו נתרצו ב׳ בעלי דינים לדון בפניהם אסור וכל הבא לדון בפניהם הרי הוא רשע וכאילו חרף וגדף והרים יד בתורת משה רבינו עליו השלום

וכתב בסמ״ע: דהוי הרמת יד בתורת משה כיון שמראה כאילו תורת משה אינה אמת ח״ו, ובנתיה״מ ביאר שלכן הולך לפני עכו״ם הדנים לפי נימוסיהם ולפי שכל אנושי. ומבואר בזה שאין האיסור מחמת שדנים לפי דת ע״ז שלהם, אלא גם כשדנים לפי שכלם יש איסור. וע״כ
פשוט שאסור לילך אף אצל דייני ישראל הדנים לפי
שכלם או לפי חוקי האומות ולא על פי דין תורה. וכן
מבואר בחזו״א סנהדרין סימן ט״ו אות ד׳

rebcharles said...

reb tzig

if you have "word verification" , then I have a suggestion.

No one should be allowed to post anything until they come up with a new Teretz to the Bais Yoisef's Kashe, and enter said Teretz into the word verification.

Believe me, this will solve many,many problems.

71ciavla said...


Atrocities like this is common just happened recently in Crown Heights where the perpeatator was a gentile and the victim was a Jew nebech 'he! went free', although she was first supposedly a semi-willing partner and than changed her mind, same as probably/maybe happened here lieder!

But The reason this case is so high profile! Is because the government and their liberal partners are out to change the frum education system for years now! With introducing sex education! In cheredi schools! Which spells of danger to sat the least, and stinks from high heaven! that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room! and that's why the mosdos hatorah are following it carefully! Also That’s the reason this so called innocent girl (which I think was coached in her testimony) emphasized that she didn’t protest for 3 years! Out of fear! And oh! she froze and didn’t know what to do! Come'on! This sound like the reasoning Cain gave to god after he killed able “I didn’t know that when you throw a stone a person gets killed! Oh! And I never saw a dead person before! etc.) and this little spinner froze for 3 years! teah right! now that don't justify anything but it tells me of her credibility!

Sonei sheker said...

Here is the way it works. I see something, form an opinion. If I cant decide then I see what Lopin thinks, whatever he says the opposite is usually true.
Thank you Mr.Lopin the twisted pretzel

Hertzka Fefferkorn said...


I hate to bring this up, but this girls family in particular, Although the men in the family mostly originated in israel by toldos ahorn and very pious! But the woman in the family many of them where known in the community for OTD even 25-30 years ago.. and some wound up with divorces! their fathers and husbands tried hard to keep them in line but mostly didn't sucseed unfortunately, and no! it is not a justification for rc"l anything! still something smells foul here, No "American" beis rachel girl has questions about god at 12 or at 99! No No "American" beis rachel girl questions thick stockings at 12! This is outside or (mostly israeli) influence! satmar had racmunis on her "family" but shouldn't of handle her at all! and let her go at 12! for one, their is no 'cure' for issues like hers! Only the mother if anyone could of help her! and two, even when the intentions was good! and I'll not elaborate on it here still they should of know that
!.אין אפיטרופס לעריות

i live lopin said...

Hi Mr y looin and all so called victim supporters
I have a single question
Let's think and put ourselves in a week ahead and you see all over the news that Weberman was proven NOT GUILTY ,
That means he was ashamed motzee Shem ra and brought down moneywise humanity and all happened was for a lie created by a well known so called hasidic Yiddish miedel , how would you describe of on your site or comment ? Ha ? Would you support donate Weberman and spit all over that nasty girl like u do now on webermam ?

Remember we will all b waiting to see how you will attend to write then .

Tibi lotzi said...

Sheep Shared
"

ש"ע: סימן כו, הלכות דיינים
אסור לדון בפני דייני גויים ובערכאות שלהם פי׳ מושב קבוע לשרים לדון בו אפילו בדין שדנים כדיני ישראל ואפילו נתרצו ב׳ בעלי דינים לדון בפניהם אסור וכל הבא לדון בפניהם הרי הוא רשע וכאילו חרף וגדף והרים יד בתורת משה רבינו עליו השלום

וכתב בסמ״ע: דהוי הרמת יד בתורת משה כיון שמראה כאילו תורת משה אינה אמת ח״ו, ובנתיה״מ ביאר שלכן הולך לפני עכו״ם הדנים לפי נימוסיהם ולפי שכל אנושי. ומבואר בזה שאין האיסור מחמת שדנים לפי דת ע״ז שלהם, אלא גם כשדנים לפי שכלם יש איסור. וע״כ
פשוט שאסור לילך אף אצל דייני ישראל הדנים לפי
שכלם או לפי חוקי האומות ולא על פי דין תורה. וכן
מבואר בחזו״א סנהדרין סימן ט״ו אות ד׳"
you are 100% correct that it has to be solved by a Bies Din, but unfortunately Ashiemim Anachni that the leaders of the 2 largest
Kehilas of Williamsburgh are in court since 1980,and they have set a model for 2 generation that the way to solve your problems in the real world is only thru secular courts....Umie Yaseh Haben Shlo Yechto...The boys read this 2 newspapers that have it constantly in the forefront, we can cry now crocodile tears, but the damage has been done.

Tibi lotzi said...

lopin
"As I write, I hold a list of 8 other victims. Can it really be that our community is so gullible as to believe the PR campaign for Weberman? Can it really be that our community is so willfully ignorant? That we WANT to believe that which makes us more comfortable despite the damage to innocent victims?" http://wp.me/pFbfD-Jo"
Englemans claiming does not change the fact that she is not to be believed.I know that many of these girls are on the verge of being bipolar, they wake up every day in a different mood.

moshe pupik said...

"....Umie Yaseh Haben Shlo Yechto"

Is that why Lubab, telz, ponovitz on and on.. go to courts to? (without permission from beth din)

Is it allowed to go to court when as they both "claim" (even they didn't show it to you!) that they have a permission from a beth din?

Do you know of any claims by them that was settled in courts? against beth din will? or are they posturing for ground only?

Did you see a beth din summons and the following proclamation of beth din that either didn't stand on 3calls! in fromt of beth din?

Do you know what you're talking about or is it the blogs and papers you're infested with talking thru you moshe pupik head!?

Tibi lotzi said...

Moshe ....)
"Is that why Lubab, telz, ponovitz on and on.. go to courts to? (without permission from beth din)"
you are correct they are also bad role models and they cause a chilul hashem and Mierim yad betoras moshe,

Tibi lotzi said...

Moshe ....
"Is it allowed to go to court when as they both "claim" (even they didn't show it to you!) that they have a permission from a beth din?"
it is allowed al pi torah and dikduk din, but when people that are in the status of Rebbes do it, it is a Chilul Hashem and a bad example for all our Generations.

Tibi lotzi said...

Moshe ....)
"Did you see a beth din summons and the following proclamation of beth din that either didn't stand on 3calls! in fromt of beth din? "I will not start the Chet Hakadmon, when the Aronim called the Zalis to Navardok, and the Zalis claimed they have to settle in front of the Kehilas Bies Din,
Again if you are correct, for a Rebbe its a chilul hashem.... You know all the Chazals of chilul hashem for smaller thinks that going to secular courts.
Btw, when the father of the 2 brothers, the holy Birech Moshe called Brach in court for the Villa on Bedford Ave, did he also first called him to a Bies din first? or when he was Mesader Kidushin for S Berger after he rejected a pesak bies din did he also go to a bies din first ...?
This family as a whole, made a buffoonery from the Bies Din system, and now we are crying

Lakewood Resident said...

No Kehilla is Spared From The Magiefa Of Arkous.Even Lakewood Ihr Hatorah has a Serious Arkous Problem to. It Is A Busha to walk into The Ocean County Superiour Courts, on any Given Day You Can Find Frum Heimeshe Yidden Suing and Prosecuting Thier Fellow Frum Heimeshe /Yeshivishe Yidden in Civil,Family, and Even Criminal Court

-- וועד הרבנים דפה said...

ס"ה, לפי עדותה! הנידן הי' רועה זונות רח"ל, והשערורי' הוא שהאו"א שלמו לו! ולא להיפך. כמ"ש
במשלי - רועה זונות יאבד הון
!ועכשיו יש להם דיני ממונות

meir said...

In square they paid the victim $5000000 for silence, xouldn't they do that here...

pitputim said...

I've got to say, I don't understand how you can write "I don't care what Yankee Horowitz says" in your title.

Bottom line: Weberman is no therapist, was no therapist, will never be a therapist. As such, his began as a classical case of Gneyvas Daas and from there, the courts will decide how far he descended into Sheol.

פטם אמו said...

pitputim said.: "Bottom line:"

That's your "Bottom line" and maybe does like you who are דן דין עכו"ם, ע"פ שכלם הנכבזה But it's it's certainly not the daas torah!

בנתיה״מ ביאר שלכן הולך לפני עכו״ם הדנים לפי נימוסיהם ולפי שכל אנושי! ומבואר בזה שאין האיסור מחמת שדנים לפי דת ע״ז שלהם, אלא גם כשדנים לפי שכלם! יש איסור. וע״כ פשוט שאסור לילך אף אצל דייני ישראל הדנים לפי שכלם! או לפי חוקי האומות ולא על פי דין תורה. וכן מבואר בחזו״א סנהדרין סימן ט״ו אות ד׳


ירושלמי: כל פטפוטים אסורים בר מפטפוטי דאורייתא

blüh Comédie said...

pitputim said: " Weberman is no therapist, was no therapist, will never be a therapist."

לכבוד עצמו הוא דורש, ווער ס'ווייסט
!ווייסט

ah-ba-za said...

pitputim said: "a classical case of Gneyvas Daas "

?גניבת דעת, ממי שדעת חסרת

חז"ל: אין אדם עובר עבירה אלא א"כ נכנס בו רוח שטות

Tibi lotzi said...

Pitputim
I am sorry to notify ypu that you are talking about a crowd with a culture, that you dont get.
Her parents and all parents of Willi dont look for a therapist for these kind of problems, They were looking for a Hiemishe Chevraman that is ready to get involved in this dirty work. He did not fool no one, Weberman and Kraus the parent all went in the same cheder and same yeshiva and same Mikve for Men... So nobody fooled no one.

מרוח אשך said...

Tibi lotzi : "So nobody fooled no one."

Neither do you lotzi, As a leopard can't change its spots! you can't change your color!

...הפורש מן המינות

pitputim said...

פטם אמו
I suggest you don't get on an airplane. According to the Nesivos, you are being misled by goyishe Booba Mayse chochma. Did you ever study what evidence based research is? Guess what. The Tannoim and Amoroim used it when they gave us medical advice in the Gemora. That was the best of their knowledge at the time. Ditto the Rambam. Only a fool follows that advice today. If you are a qualified therapist you don't use boich svaros in your approach to people. Sure, a frum therapist has the advantage of both Ruach HaTorah and the current best practice. Weberman had no scientific credentials and the courts will soon lay out what people think of his frumkeit. Unfortunately the oilom goilom that he ministered to haven't got a clue, and my heart goes out to anyone caught up in their cloistered world of make believe.

pitputim said...

Tibi Lotzi
I do understand. The Heymishe chevraman is their definition of a therapist, and I am sure he was so deluded by the grandeur of his position of power that he believed it.

I'm sick of unqualified people parading in all communities as quasi therapists. They don't answer to any control board, and as we keep seeing that they certainly don't answer to the eybishter.

When a kid has tinea they don't go to a witch doctor, yet, when their kid is showing signs of trauma or some behavioral disturbance the oilom goilom doesn't realise you also have to see a trained expert. Yes, go to a frum one if you can.

I'm sure that dyslexic kids still get petch and are considered shotim. Such is the lack of their sophistication.

Chochmo BaGoyim Ta'amin. It doesn't mean you accept their morals or ethics etc

Hashem Yerachem

פטם אמו said...

pitputim: "That was the best of their knowledge at the time. Ditto the Rambam. Only a fool follows that advice today"

! וכסילים מתי תשכילו

פטם אמו said...

pitputim: "Chochmo BaGoyim Ta'amin. It doesn't mean you accept their morals or ethics etc"

!חכמים המה להרע ולהיטיב לא ידעו
As tragic this unfolding story is, Most of the 'licensed therapists' do more harm than good especially for the jewish OTD problem.

חכמה בגויים תאמין.. אבל אם יאמר לך אדם יש תורה בגוים - אל תאמן, דכתיב: מלכה ושריה בגוים אין תורה. -איכה רבה פ"ב

X Dr Burstein said...

pitputim: "Chochmo BaGoyim Ta'amin. It doesn't mean you accept their morals or ethics etc."

Tell a OTD kid who needs help what to accept and what not! btw, most even jewish therapists are OTD themselfs!

"Chochmo BaGoyim Ta'amin"?
אין הדור כאדוני
ואין ותיק כבן עמרם.
אין זכה כתורה
ואין חכמים! כישראל.
מפי אל, מפי אל
יבורך כל ישראל.

Tibi lotzi said...

Pitputim
"I do understand. The Heymishe chevraman is their definition of a therapist, and I am sure he was so deluded by the grandeur of his position of power that he believed it."
Therapist or no therapist he helped alot of kids who were on the verge, No therapsist can comare therir succes, and his rate of successes in that field is very high,
Don't start throwing dyslexic and other issues, this cases was not send to him, and it is usually send to professionals, every Chasidic Mossad has Professionals working with the kids in the walls of the cheder, So why are you hurling mud for no reason
Its a fact that professionals are not good at handling this cases, I am very close to a few cases where each parent have spended close to 250 K and up to square one and their Meshugazz made them more sick.

Tibi lotzi said...

מרוח אשך said...

Tibi lotzi : "So nobody fooled no one."

Neither do you lotzi, As a leopard can't change its spots! you can't change your color!

...הפורש מן המינות

Was Sands street that low?, the name calling is so degrading for them... Please don't Defend Nechemya,

מרוח אשך said...

Tibi lotzi: "Please don't Defend Nechemya," "Was Sands street that low?"

.כולו חייב! גם כולו זכאי הוא

ps: so sorry to offend you but still:!וכל המינים כרגע יאבדו
with love from,
BMG on Six st

BMG Bum said...

Tibi lotzi: "Please don't Defend Nechemya,"

And why not? after all his wife buys 'punjolos' at "BMG Corset & Lingerie Boutique" on Lee ave. It's heimish no? I'm sure BMG gets a cut!

bas potiferah said...

Tibi lotzi vs Pitputim "I do understand."

The clash of the titans or is it yehda vs yosef!

שמעק טאביק said...

Tibi lotzi : " i am very close to a few cases where each parent have spended close to 250 K and up to square one and their Meshugazz made them more sick."


Pedophilia as Alcoholics, Gambling, Overeating and many others, are addictions! And should be treated as such! However unlike the others, Pedophilia is not immediate a victimless disease and therefore its treatment is more urgent! It is probaly not cureable but it can be arrested with a support group and a program! (it works if you work it) That’s a proffesinal look on it! And not a judical one. But from a frum point-of-view

אין עצה ואין תבונה כנגדה, רק תורה ותפילה שהוא מצלת ומגנא בין בעידנא
..דעסק ביה ובין בלא עידנא

pitputim said...

Four words: Rabbi Dr Abraham Twersky ודו״ק

Satmar need to grow their own educated and qualified experts and stop relying on medieval charlatans and their boich sevaros.

Be under no illusion. People like Drs Klafter and Pelcovitz have also helped countless.

Forget the webberman types. We have them in Melbourne too. They should be outlawed.

You don't go to a Shoichet to perform surgery.

Anonymous said...

Therapist perushoi the rapist.

חכם עתיק said...

pitputim said... "Four words: Rabbi Dr Abraham Twersky ודו״ק "

How about only two words "Bill W"
don't worry about satmar 'It's about you stupid'.

טויטע באנקעס said...

pitputim: "People like Drs Klafter and Pelcovitz have also helped countless. Tibi lotzi: "i am very close to a few cases where each parent have spended close to 250 K and up to square one and their Meshugazz made them more sick
-------------

As Tibi lotzi writes.. Klafta & plachovitz will help themselfes! but not you.

sheloi usani tzig said...

"You couldn't care less what Yankee Horowitz says"

You even know him, ass hole?
Go f urself!!!
If you had the macht you"d never prosecute anybody for molestation.
For shame tuches loch!!!!!

avi said...

Weberman was just found guilty.
I think this may open a pandoras box of mesira from all the frimmeh groups.
Scary, what will happen if boys and girls want to take nekumeh against the frimmeh tormenters

עת לבכות said...


ועוד ראיתי תחת השמש מקום המשפט שמה הרשע! ומקום הצדק שמה הרשע? -קהלת ג

אבן עזרא, ועוד - המקום שהיה ראוי להיות שם המשפט שמה הרשע