Saturday, November 3, 2012

On the "sterilization" of public figures


Source

 Today was the Yohrtzeit of the בעל הפתק" רבי ישראל בער אדעסער". I happened to come across this while reading "בצילו של הרבי", a book about Breslover Chassidim. There are some major, major characters there, and I mean that in a good way. Some real עובדי השם. Based on what I can tell, the author is מאנשי ישוב הישן and doesn't care for the Na-Nachs, so what does he do when he get to Reb Yisroel Ber? He writes alot about his childhood, his לב טוב, his התקרבות to Breslov through the Breslover chossid Reb Yisroel Karduner of Tveryah, and his עבודת השם. But he ignores the פתק part of his life, which - truth be told - was not such a long time, considering that he was born somewhere between 1888 and 1897, and died in 5755/1994. I've seen this approach with many of the "mainstream" Breslovers, and I very much understand it. They say that in his old age and feeble mind he was dragged into this mess by his "מקורבים."

But is it real?

52 comments:

Bobov Chusid said...

rewriting history was/is a major factor among chassim, belz from back then in the muddy dirt roads, to nelz of today, belz is reinventing and fabrucating their own history, one cannot bealive on word they write in their monthly propoganda lie infested magazine. they are doing this for the last 100 or more years. among the many self manufactured stories you can find as well `petek` stories dibuk, dreams that the besh"t, bal noam ekimeilech, eliyahi hanavi, ect. visited the rebbis of belz.

Bobov have no such stories no dybuk or petek or fantasy sleep tight dreams, everything surrounding bobov is about torah and good deeds one to another.

skver (springvalley) has nothing to offer so they took the easy line, i thing belz took their motto from the russian novel writers like tchernobil ect.

moshe moshel said...

Its as real as the tributes and biographies of the Rebbe that have less than 2 sentences about his years in Paris and Berlin. Forget Artscroll...

Biographies generally stick to what the writer feels is relevant to their own perspective.

moshe moshel said...

Agav, you did a plug about R Avrohom Mayor a while back containing some serious sins of ommission. Concensus seems to be that missing information isn't viewed the same as lying.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I did a book review, not a book. so the "sins" are not mine.

private sheen said...

Wasn't the Jewish Observer blasted here for writing a truthful obituary about the Rebbe including the messianic craze...

berish said...

Hirshel,
You do understand, that some, even people close to Chabad, feel the same way, about certain aspects of the late me"ms/early nuns?

berish said...

Hirshel,
You do understand, that some, even people close to Chabad, feel the same way, about certain aspects of the late me"ms/early nuns?

Yanover said...

I was just talking about Reb Odesser Z"L to a breslover friend of mine. R' Odesser came from a Stoliner family. HIs father didnt want him to be breslov. (if you ever read odessers book on the "letter" he talks about coming from stolin)

My friend claims that the letter most likely came from a mischievous Stoliner pulling a fast one on him.

its similar to a story that R' Heinoch Henoch of Aleksander-Gur pulled on someone in Pshische making someone think they received a letter from a malach.

I dont think its much similar to downplaying the Lubavitcher Rebbes university studies. For Breslovers probably mentioning Na-Nach would give them legitimacy or something.

tziki kedera said...

I see the נ-נח s on the bus... they son't take their eyes from the ספר and have שמירת ה עינים.

אז נדברו said...


במדר"ש, לשעבר היה אדם עושה מצוה והנביאים כותבים, עכשיו שאין נביאים מי כותב אותה?!, אליהו ומלך המשיח!, והקב"ה חותם על ידיהם, שנאמר, אז נדברו יראי ד' איש את רעהו ויקשב ד' וישמע ויכתב ספר זכרון לפניו ליראי ד' ולחשבי שמו

moshe moshel said...

Correct, I meant to write "you did a plug for a book about him..."

fact said...

for the record all that bobov had to sell was dancing or storytelling, and yes the stories also included those sooky hocos pocus ones as well.

by the way, lubavitch rebbi never mentioned the lekutei diburim either.

true bobover said...

fact said...
for the record all that bobov had to sell was dancing or storytelling, and yes the stories also included those sooky hocos pocus ones as well.
------------

! פוער פיו לבלי חוק
you can say what you want! But for the Record!!! bobov in America is a sucess story more then lubab! and certainly more than RAK! (johnny-come-lately) in building frum torah families! in America.

Shut your big mouth! disclose who your real rebbe was the a"h and grober ying from the BRONX! that's the one and only rebbe you ever had! and that
!ארוס המפעפע ויוצאי מנחיריך


Anonymous said...

True Bobov
"you can say what you want! But for the Record!!! bobov in America is a sucess story more then lubab!"
How is a Kehila that is less then a 1000 families more success then 30000 families and touching 100 of thousands more?
Is it the White socks husband

















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































with the shitel wearing wife in the side that is your barometer?
what a farce to call themselves Sanz

true bobover said...

Anonymous : "How is a Kehila that is less then a 1000 families more success then 30000 families and touching 100 of thousands more?"

הן, לא בכמות! ואפשר לא באיכות! אבל לא בכח לא ברעש, ולא בגעש הוא.., באבאב עמדו בנסיון המר של ציונות עכ"פ בנגלה! שמר על המסורה, ולא התערבו בגויים או בליטראטור שלהם, או ביודישע-גויים! וכ"כ לא שינו את שמם, לבוש, ולשון! היסודות של היהדות וד"ב

select profile said...

Is that true that the Rebbe never quoted Likutei Diburim? Didn't he write it?

dovy in j. said...

That Bobover is obviously a troll. no one in their right mind thinks of Reb Shlomo Halberstam that highly. He was a nice man and a very good dancer. that's about it.

moshemoshel said...

Dovy in J, your a fool if that's what you honestly think of him. For way too many reasons to list.

Yankel Mimush said...

Select Profile
The Rebbe did not write it, but quoted it for sure...the Rebbes emuna in the Frierdike Rebbe was lemala mitaam vedaath.

Gorlitzer Shames said...

True Bobover
"באבאב עמדו בנסיון המר של ציונות עכ"פ בנגלה! שמר על המסורה, ולא התערבו בגויים או בליטראטור שלהם, או ביודישע-גויים! וכ"כ לא שינו את שמם, לבוש, ולשון! היסודות של היהדות וד"ב"
Bobov had 2 Mesorahs from the Sanzer Ruv, the patriarch of the family,
Shietlech and Torah based chassidus,and the Blew it, the only mesoras they keep, is the anti machine matzos and badmouth the Kitzur Shulchan Orech, which are very convenient.

Gorlitzer Shames said...

Bobober Chusid
"Bobov have no such stories no dybuk or petek or fantasy sleep tight dreams,"
I think that Bobev has some special dream for the first nite of Sukkah?? did you ever hear of it?
Btw,
Did Sanzer ruv and his son the Shinever,travel to Belz or to Bobov? Is this a Belzer hoax?

Gorlitzer Shames said...

True Bobover
" עמדו בנסיון המר של ציונות עכ"פ בנגלה!"
Avoda Zora is osser even bemachshova....

Na Nach said...

For those that want to know more about the Petek and arguments of its truth see: http://zissil.com/topics/The-Petek---Letter-From-Heaven

yeled tov california said...

Rav yb odesser's SIL tra.silated and publshed. מעם לעז.
His grandson m sheffer is chief adviser to natanyahu.

yitzchak said...

Since the blogmeister thinks that the na nach episode has been overlooked, what is his opinion about what had been overlooked in Chabad, especially early nineties??

moshe moshel said...

Every body knows exactly what happened in the nineties, big deal. What IS covered up, is the succession fight between RaMaSH and RaSHag.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

real fights are tough to cover up

moshe moshel said...

Dude, let's have a discussion about it then, please. From both sides.

Chochem Hadoir said...

Moshe Moshel
"is the succession fight between RaMaSH and RaSHag.
Who in chabad does not know that the Reshag wanted to be Rebbe, and then he saw all cards stacked against him? and his wife never gave up on that lose...
So where is the cover up?

moshe moshel said...

"So where is the cover up?"

lets start with the following.

who did rebetzin nechama dina want to be rebbe?
why didnt the rebbe wear a spodik?
who said a mmamer by shaleshoudes?
why lubavitch doesnt eat a formal shaloshudes anymore?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Moshel:

one word:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

moshe moshel said...

can you5r average lubavitcher under 20/25 answer those questions, no. especially because they never thought of them... because its not whitewashed, it was a natural bloodless and painless succession.
באהב ואחוה ושלום ורעות

or its too uncomfortable to talk about if it can be helped.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"you can say what you want! But for the Record!!! bobov in America is a sucess story more then lubab! and certainly more than RAK! (johnny-come-lately) in building frum torah families! in America."

Hereshel,

Can you block comments from this nut? He is getting boring.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

the average guy knows alot less about non-controversial subjects too. so what does that prove?

and while we're at it: how much does the average Satmarer know about קראלי fights?

moshe moshel said...

while we're at it: how much does the average Satmarer know about קראלי fights?

thats what we have you for, hirshele laybn

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ביז הונדערט און צוואנציג יאר

אכי"ר

moshe moshel said...

http://pirsumrishon.blogspot.com/2009/01/10-teves.html

http://pirsumrishon.blogspot.com/2008/02/chassidims-letter-to-nd-5711.html

moshe moshel said...

אמן ואמן
געזונטערהייט

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

אמן אייך אויך

m said...

http://pirsumrishon.blogspot.com/search/label/rashag

heres a good start.

now fill us in on all the background.

Yanover said...

and the split in chabad Lubavitch-kapust etc by the tzemach tzedek is also whitewashed. everyone conveniently became talmiday maharosh.

And NO ONE talks about the current chabadsker rebbe the Liozna Rebbe shlit"a of boro park.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

come again, Yanover? the current WHAT?

select profile said...

come again, Yanover? the current WHAT?

point proven

Yanover said...

Dearest Hirsh:I present to you the current Nossi of the chabad philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaul_Shimon_Deutsch

;)

Axelrod said...

Moshe Moshel
"who did rebetzin nechama dina want to be rebbe?
why didnt the rebbe wear a spodik?
who said a mmamer by shaleshoudes?
why lubavitch doesnt eat a formal shaloshudes anymore?
1) Nechoma dina wanted the oldest eidem
2) because he likes a hat,he did not even want to wear a long kapute on wing days, till reb shmuel begged him to wear it
3)the reshag said a mamar by shalash seudas, in the little shul upstairs till he passed away
4)because the farbrenged till late afternoon annd they cant it anymore

so where is the coverup? I love this cospiracy obssesed people

שטרוי זאק said...

dovy in j. said...
That Bobover is obviously a troll. no one in their right mind thinks of Reb Shlomo Halberstam that highly. He was a nice man and a very good dancer. that's about it.
----------

like-wood'er machitzuf!

פסחים מ"ט
לעולם ישא אדם בת ת"ח לא מצא בת ת"ח ישא בת גדולי הדור. כנראה לא צריכים להיות ת"ח גדול כדי שיהיה מהגדולי הדור

moshe moshel said...

2) because he likes a hat,he did not even want to wear a long kapute on wing days, till reb shmuel begged him to wear it

No. Because Rebetzin Nechama Dina refused to give him the Rayatz's spodik. Which by all chasidishe successions is a sign of hemshech, for the new rebbe to be crowned wearing the previous rebbes shtreimel.

3)the reshag said a mamar by shalash seudas, in the little shul upstairs till he passed away

When you knew him, that's where he said it. Because he got dislodged from the main shul...

4)because the farbrenged till late afternoon annd they cant it anymore

This was one of the methods used to dislodge Rashag. There was a forced division, that Ramash would farbreng by day and Rashag by shalos seudoes. Rashag attended the farbrengen of Ramash. Ramash didn't attend rashag's, thereby making anyone who supported Ramash stop attending as well. Additionally, Ramash filling up the entire afternoon until shalos seudos and then not attending Rashag's farbrengen, took all the wind out of Rashag, until he was forced to give it up.

Bekitzer nimrotz. Speak to someone old enough and honest enough to remember. . . This is the nicer parts of it.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

FYI

Moshel also believes that the Jews didn't come to work on 9/11

Axelrod said...

Moshe Moshel
"2) because he likes a hat,he did not even want to wear a long kapute on wing days, till reb shmuel begged him to wear it

No. Because Rebetzin Nechama Dina refused to give him the Rayatz's spodik. Which by all chasidishe successions is a sign of hemshech, for the new rebbe to be crowned wearing the previous rebbes shtreimel."

Can you please give me the source that you heard this fact,
Do you know that in chabad they have no hergieshim for the Shtriemel, Do you know that the last 3 Rebiem were not wearing Shabos the Shtriemel when they were of of the town of Lubavich,
By them Shabos meant a new deeper understanding in a piece of Likuti torah.
That was their Shtriemel.
That was their Kugel,
That was their Baal Shems Tzimmes,
That was their colored Bekiche... All you can imagine in your fargtrebte kup that shabos stand for... was all encapsulated in a piece of Likutie Torah.....

Axelrod said...

Moshe Moshel
"3)the reshag said a mamar by shalash seudas, in the little shul upstairs till he passed away

When you knew him, that's where he said it. Because he got dislodged from the main shul..."

This all Reshag hangover is a constant obsession by certain crowds, its no secret that the Reshag did not become Rebbe and when you are not Rebbe you are a Nobody, no matter how great you are and how dear you were by the last Rebbe, this happens in every court, from the Bilegrayer Ruv to the Rachmistrivker of BP in New square.
I dont know when the Reshag moved down with his Mamar by Shalas Seudas, since by the FR there was only Upstairs, but the fact is nobody was interested what he had to say, and it was just a Minhag to keep for him. And certain people live off from it.

Axelrod said...

Moshel
"This was one of the methods used to dislodge Rashag. There was a forced division, that Ramash would farbreng by day and Rashag by shalos seudoes. Rashag attended the farbrengen of Ramash. Ramash didn't attend rashag's, thereby making anyone who supported Ramash stop attending as well. Additionally, Ramash filling up the entire afternoon until shalos seudos and then not attending Rashag's farbrengen, took all the wind out of Rashag, until he was forced to give it up."
so all the long farbrenbgens of the Rebbe were to dislodge the Reshags Mamar in the late afternoon, so all volumes of the Likutie Sichos are thanks to the Reshag,
Just one question why did the Rebbe farbreng Pesach nites,Simchas torah nites, Yud Tes Kislev Nites etc,,, etc etc for the full night? did the Reshag say a Mamar early morning and he wanted to stop it too???
Ein Kietz Ledivrie Ruach.

balbler said...

"Ein Kietz Ledivrie Ruach."

Does that apply to Axelrod blabel to?