Friday, September 5, 2014

קצת ע"ד שיטת רבינו תם בזמן מוצש"ק באמעריקא ואיך שהרבי מוויזשניץ-מאנסי לא נכנע להלחץ

על הקול קורא להחזיק 72 דק' מוצ"ש. בהזמנים בהלכה ח"ב עמוד תע"ד כתוב שכן היה אסיפה. ראה מצורף צילום הקול קורא הישן שנדפס בהזמנים בהלכה ח"ב עמוד תע"ה, ושם נדפס שהאסיפה התקיימה באור ליום ד' טהרה ד' ניסן תשי"ד. שים לב שהשמות ע"פ סדר א"ב, ושמו של הרבי מסאטמאר מגיע בדיוק לתחילת השורה האמצעית. ובמפתח הכשרות של התאחדות (מצורף) הדפיסו ג"כ את הקול קורא הזה באותיות חדשות, ושם הגדילו את שמו של הרבי מסאטמאר. והבן. גם בשו"ת ברכות שמים או"ח סי' ע"ז כתוב שהיה אסיפה. האדמו"ר מוויזניץ-מאנסי מכחיש שבכלל היתה אסיפה, רק שסיבבו לאסוף חתימות, כנראה שלא קראו לו כי ידעו שיתנגד.

One thing we see about the Vizhnitzer Rebbe shlit"a is that he sticks to his guns and never backs down. No matter what kind of pressure from how many people. No matter what his shver does or expects from him. That kind of approach is sometimes useful, I suppose.



26 comments:

yankel said...

When is it useful? Only When he holds the same lehalocho as the ana"sh or every time?
When he gets asked to explain the halocho, does he give the inane answer of 'he could learn better than you and me', or does he have something smart to say?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

when is what useful, Reb Mottele?

Nati Grossman said...

Yankel
"When he gets asked to explain the halocho, does he give the inane answer of 'he could learn better than you and me', or does he have something smart to say?"
what are you talking about?

Yankel said...

You called his approach useful, did you not?

Nati grossman said...

Yankel
"When is it useful?"
Useful for what? who is using whom?
explain better what in your convoluted brain

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Ah, yes.
Its useful and beneficial when you do it to make life easier for people, I suppose

Anonymous said...

It is well known that satmar has always tried to impose their opinions on others, and it often works due to intimidation. This is part of their shito , that if you disagree with them you are an apikorus.
If the vizhnitzer rebbe would go along with their demands on 72 minutes he would cease to be vizhnits. The reason being, is that the shitas hageoinim was the minhag in vizhnitz from the imrei chaim and the ahavas yisroel. He already capitulated to satmar on the subject of Israel, but he can't afford to capitulate on traditional vizhnitz minhogim. Im not sure if he was a major player to be invited to a meeting in 1954. His father was alive and he was just the local vizhnitz rov at that time.
The vizhnitser rebbe is correct that 72 minutes was not the universal minhog in europe.
As mentioned previously on this blog the pupa luach from 1943 was not according to 72 minutes. All this talk of pupa being makpid to daven mincho before 45 minutes after sunset is nonsense. If you go according to shitas hageoinim then you can already daven maariv at that time and mincho must be before sunset and no later than half hour after sunset and that is mamosh bedieved beshaas hadechak. The reason pupa davens mincho late is because they are headquartered on bedford avenue and have capitulated to satmar in everything. They have lost their independence completely. That is how satmar reacts. If they are not successful in pushing their weight around, then they distort history as they have done with belz, or badmouth as they have done with lubavitch. However, the belzer have recently exposed the satmar revisionism, and satmar cannot do anything about it. Because if they attack reb aharon from belz, they will lose all credibility.
Kesivo vachasimo toivo to everyone and may we merit the coming of moshiach right away who will teach the only truth.

Fred said...

I dont understand your comment on his shver. Why are you talking about his shver as if he's alive?

Who was his shver ayway?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

רבי יעקב יוסף מסקווער, נפטר ב' ניסן תשכ"ח
Was his shver

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

See what he writes about his davening mincha b'yechidus when spending shabbos with his shver

Fred said...

Thanks

Anonymous said...

In one of Rav Shlomo Brevda's zt"l Droshes that he pointed out, that as much as we admire the men who learn Torah (we surely all do), we should admire their spouses and any spouse taking care of the home even more.

The men feel the tremendous pleasure of Toiling in Torah. Working on a difficult piece an eventually seeing even a drop of light can be a tremendous feeling of ecstasy.
However, what satisfaction do the women feel? She works hard day and night and then the kids get hurt and she* has to calm them, clean them, make supper, clean the house, laundry, Pesach clean too.......

A woman who encourages their spouses to go and learn Torah while they take care of the home will get the fullest reward of learning Torah on the highest level in the world to come!

Rav Brevda zt"l concluded this point by assuring that he has a very good source for this. He recalled that he heard it from Rav Aharon Kotler,z.t.l. 65 years ago (1949) the Rosh Hayeshivah and founder of the Lakewood Yeshiva the following.

Rav Aharon said that men get a Sippuk-sense of fulfillment from learning Torah. What do the women get? We sometimes "Batul"-waste our time in middle of learning-but women are constantly busy, non stop, they don’t have Bain Hazmanim to wake up late like some men do etc.

Rav Aharon zt"l stressed that the women will share in the reward for our learning Torah but they won’t share in any part of our Bitul Torah.

Rav Brevda recalls that some of the "Yunger-Leit"-members of the Kolel in Lakewood where surprised and ask Rav Aharon for clarification, "Are you saying that my wife will get more out of my own Torah learning than I will?

Rav Aharon answered emphatically, "Yah”!! Gleib Mir Vos Ich Zog!!-Yes!!! Believe me what I say!! Women are sacrificing more than men, especially in our generation. They are fully assured that they will be rewarded in full. We can never be sure if we have fully fulfilled our Tachlis in this world.

yankel said...

Natti - There is a video clip where a bochur asks the Lubavitcher why the Ba'al HaTanya contradicts himself from the siddur to the Shulchan Aruch. The Lubavitcher answers as above.

Avreymel said...

Anon
Ma inyan shmita lechavita?

Tzig
Don't you filter comments?

נאט א הארי said...

שמיטה אצל הר סיני

not a harry said...

of the original signers, i think only the odvory r shulem krois is still among us.

lee avenue said...

דירעבאזחיסע'יוגיינאלייני
is the longest word in the spoken yiddish vernacular.

Ma Rabbi said...

Reply to Yankel:
I did not see the video so I do not know what the Rebbe answered but the standard answer is that when the Alter Rebbe wrote the Shulchan Aruch Harav he was a young man and therefore always paskened like the Magen Avrohom. However,when he wrote the siddur he was older and when he felt the halacha is not like the Magen Avrohom he ruled different from him.

yankel said...

The Kashe is not the point. The point is the Rebbe's answer.
Many Gedolei Yisroel, who were major kano'im in public policy, were soft as butter in personal relationships. Rav Shach spoke in bombastic terms. He quoted Reb Yehoshua Leib that Moshe Rabbeinu cannot stay friendly with everybody. The Torah has sharp edges. But in personal interactions he was the most friendly loving person people met. He would spend hours visiting forgotten old men he knew from his younger years and when guests, even irreligious and non-influential ones, would visit, he would treat them with such warmth they remembered it for years afterwards, not beccaus eof natural charisma, just Jewish warmth. His personal interactions with children were legendary. This was true about the Satmarer Rov too, albeit on a Rebbishe level. He didn't actually go visit simple old men. But his personal interactions were completely genial.
Only the Lubavitcher Rebbe was the opposite. He talked a big talk about Ahavas Yisroel. But in personal interactions with people he was abrasive, constantly one-upping his petitioners as though everything was a game of chess. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy his one-liners just like anyone else. But the difference between this hanhogo and that of Gedolei Yisroel is clear.
This video clip is the same. A bochur asks a question and is answered with a personal jab. Watch the video, the bochur meant nothing with his question. He just wanted to go back to his friends to tell them what he heard. He didn't deserve such treatment.

Now you can start with your issues of haters, benei korach, menagdim etc.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

oy, Yankel

chaval that you don't read about the Rebbe and his conversations in yechidus. That you make such statements based on a few interactions that you don't like.

yankel said...

Actually I have read them. Many people were impressed by his charisma and concentration and level of detail. But when transcripts or videos are available, I have found my point very clear. Amnogst my friends, when we quote these stories, the punch line is usually "נישט אומזיסט איז ער משיח און נישט קיין צווייטער", we enjoy them very much. But the pedestal you put him on seems undeserved in the light of these stories.

Anonymous said...

mister yankel, i would love to laugh at your statements, if they would not have been so sad.

the rebbe was the nicest person and the most sympathetic person.

now about this bochur: if you belive he was so inoccent, then i have a bridge to sell you.

and by the way, shach wasable to be sharp and nasty one on one, please do not re-write history.

also which old people did he go to meet? as far as i know, that does not jibe with the official hasmodo he portrayed.

Nati said...

Yankel
"This was true about the Satmar Rov too, albeit on a Rebbishe level. He didn't actually go visit simple old men"
The Satmar rebbe was famous for going in to a rage when a issue was discussed a drop opposed to his view, he went ballistic. He constantly had to send shluchim to apologize, it happened alot, not even for ideological reasons. that he spend money to buy his apology.
Whoever was by a yechidus by the Rebbe will attest to the rebbe acting so close, closer than your own parent,a expression I heard from many. In a his cubicle people felt his rays of ahavas yisroel for thousand that flocked to him. whoever was there will attest that at 3 in the morning, after seeing a crowd he was crisp with warmth to each individual that was shining in his dalet amois. It brings people to tears when they start talking about that era, chasidim and non chasidim
Ein Hacha Yuchel Lhakchish es hacha,the ahavas yisroel that you saw by the dollars....
I should not even talk to a Bilam that decided to tarnish the Rebbes Character, and his Sinah is Mekalkel Hashirah...
Nothing will help a ISIS member to get out of his hate trance,, but it is still important to write to others that are not stuck in your hate tunnel.

Nati said...

Yankel
"Actually I have read them. Many people were impressed by his charisma and concentration and level of detail"
would you say all the interviews of Jem are paid artist????

Nati said...

Yankel
" But the pedestal you put him on seems undeserved in the light of these stories."
what is the pedestal? how does it not deserve it?

Nati said...

Yankel
"not because of natural charisma, just Jewish warmth."
is it not amazing that now you have is own people working tirelessly to stop the hate nachine of the fuzzy old man of Ponevezsh....
All gedolim look at his hanhoga as a cancer on Klal Yisroel.. this is not chabad PR.. just look the way Reb Chaim handle the Chadere Yeshiva, a bastion of the Fuzzy Rosh hate mongering hotbed
Why do I argue with you I really dont know.