I've always wondered why Lubavitch is he most hated of all frum/Chassidishe groups. I mean, you can have two archenemies from two of the fighting factions in any group going at each other like cats and dogs, mention Lubavitch and they drop everything. They suddenly remember that fighting the "real enemy" is more important.
We can do this very slowly and examine all possibilities.
1) Old world hate from non-Chassidic groups, i.e. Litvishe.
people like this are usually hateful from lack of understanding, and 200 years of lies. They think that Lubavitchers either learn Tanya all day or don't keep Torah and Mitzvohs. When they find out or meet a Lubavitcher Yungerman וואס קען לערנען they're shocked and reconsider. The real hardliners negate that too by telling themselves that deep down this guy's an Apikores. Others will degrade by using names like "Lubabs and Chabadskers", thereby totally disregarding them or anything they do.
TO BE CONTINUED....
39 comments:
Tzig, why are you so obcessed with what other frummer Yidden think of us. And who cares what NK do with their spare time?
1) who said anything about NK?
2) I'm trying to counterpunch, see?
NK was another related obsession ;)
Look, if they wanted to make fun of us, they'd have a field day. The only mazel is they don't really know what's going on.
The shlechte Mazel is that you don't know what goes on there and think the grass is greener
The gass doesn't have to be greener next door for me to realize that my lawn needs a bit of help.
howdy
I have to tell you heshy that I was not always the nice chabad fellow that you know. when I was a youth there was the big fight in williamsburg. It was in the post and daly news and such. well, I was so blown away by the Rebbe answer of not fighting back that I started going to crown heights. From the Alter Rebbe(bal Ha tanya) who's own father-in-law hated him and the other chassidim used to call the Alter Rebbe the litvak, to today most everyone has a problem with Chabad I have to admit that it has gotten to the point that if someone does not yell at you, are you a true chabadnik? The Rebbe was the only one who got up and said the 1960's were good that it is positive to rebel and look for the truth. There are lots of problems in the frum world that a lot of people would like to see hidden in the closet. well chabad opened alot of those doors. even in chabad there are lots of chabadniks who would like to not open so many doors and just well get along. I do not know the answer. I hope there is growth. the rebbe used to work with everyone even goyem. who will push the system now? I have to tell all of you that I do not know who will be there to yell at the frum world to get out of bed and do the right thing. I do not want my children called names but there has to be someone to push the envelope. I wish you all the best but this to me is the big question after gimmel tammuz.
Howdy
so you're saying the hate comes from screming the truth?
What is the picture of?
The yid on the right is the eldest son of HaRav SZ Auerbach zt"l, a well known שונא חב"ד
howdy
Avremel who knows what evil is in the heart of men? I can not answer for hate, my family has been running from hate for the last 100 years and all I can tell you about hate is it is not a nice place to be. If you hate me, well that is wasted energy and I wish you the best.
Howdy
why do you think I hate you? heaven forbid!
howdy
avremel why do you ask me why there are people out there who hate chabad, I love chabad. you have to ask someone who has issues. I have to tell you one thing. This type of person when they do speak have 9 times out of 10 do have a problem with spit and do emit a spray of liquid when they do talk. so may be the place to ask them should be thru a blog. I have to say is that I have no problem with anyone. Maybe that is my problem. no good deed goes unpunished. hey good times.
its a divine mandate, just like the jew is the world's 'miners canary' so to the lubavitcher is the 'miner's canary' to the frumsters.
N
I feel much better now. Any theories why this is the case?
We all attck those that we know the least about.
Who is pure in this area?
Everyone has their "korbon" that they bash without stop... for many it's Lubavitch, for others it may be Satmar - or Bobov for that matter.
POINT NOT TAKEN, CE
the story here is that EVERYBODY loves to hate Lubavitch, especially those that benefit from them. Satmar and others have some detractors, and for specific reasons that affect them.
CE
to equate the hate to Lubavitch with others is at least assinine, and you know it.
Listen both of you,
Lubavitch gets the heat because as a movement they are out there doing things - good and ... - it comes wit the territory.
Lubavitch does itself no favors, and is not concerned with playing well with others.
Let's get away from the victim status
I can understand some criticism, and constructive at that, but vehement hate?
howdy
CE
it is funny how all of these fellows have no problem when they need chabad. then they say well, you see...they are not like those other fellows and such. Chabad is and will never be organized that is it strenth and weakness. how can you say does not play well? where do you point the finger? to some poor fellow who lives out in the golan or worse boro park?
HT & Avreml, you don't have similar feelings for any other group?
howdy
we all could use help with our spelling.
that was my musser for the year now carry on boys back into the mud with you. let them have it right between the eyes.
the answer to why the hate toward lubav is a big question and worthy of hammering out over time. The answer ain't just one thing. CE is right but leaning toward moral relativism here .... The same viceral hate a goy may have for a yid is mimiced by a frumster for lubavitch..but there are more rationals and it really comes from the top of other groups and filters down to the little frumster on the ground:
1) its possible that the intrinsic idealism that is identified with a lubavitcher is too much for them to take. instant indignation.
2) because lubavitch says the ideal is possible and actually acomplishing; this has to rankle the others.
3) Lubavitcher rabbis have more mesiras nefesh than other rabbi groups. this is a fact. I'd have a cow if i were them with jealosy.
Lubavitchers don't have a superiority complex but its easy to understand that the thinking other charedi would catch an inferiority complex. And recognizing the three items above and being committed to staying a non lubavitcher has to burn them even more. I'd be on fire if i were those guys...
N,
Point taken. But I maintain that it is more than that. Lubavitch is everywhere, it makes absoulute claims, does everything differently, and doesnt care a whit about what anybody else thinks. This offends most of main-stream Jewry.
And aside from being uncoventional, and having an entirely unconventional Rebbe, they claim to be the elite embodiment of Judaism - while exhibiting seemingly gaping holes when compared to the rest of the chareidim that are being offended.
I think that the detractors don't feel all that different than you or I would, if that's how we felt about some other group.
Also, you said:
"Lubavitchers don't have a superiority complex"
I'm not so sure about that...
CE, every member of a group has a superiority complex unless they don't care for the group, meaning have you spoken to a satmarer lately? does he think another group is better? you get my drift.
It makes no difference in what situation finds himself, he will be hated at worst and either looked at as a neb or loser at best.
howdy
yeah N you sound like some kind of uber mench yourself! let it go brother. We chabnick do not have turbo jews. there are lots of non chabad jews who are doing great stuff. OK I am an example of a super chabad jew but that is just me. I have to tell you that I only want my boys to marry bes rivka gals the other gals just not up to speed. well I am glad that you see the light and do not say such unloving feelings to this peaceful blog. If people dont like me well stuff happens.
once more blessings upon you and your home you are a sourse of light to the dark world you are a spring of pure wisdom to the stupid. you give the drink to the thirsty. hey good times.
ce, we need to talk apples to apples. its very hard to use the term lubavitch because we are a very big organ. we need to compare the inteligensia in lubav to the intel of other groups, our success person in the system with theirs..how that apple thinks about our apple.. keep on truckin' howdy!
I think you are wrong. I think Lubavitchers have a persecution complex. Until this Moshiach business, it was IMPOSSIBLE to say such a thing, as without a doubt Satmar was the most hated Chassidic group. After the Moshaich business, I don't think Lubavitch has become the most hated, only that they have become a joke to the rest of Judaism (at best.)
yechi lol
a Jew
Satmar could not be hated publicly because they'd come to your shul and trash it. Also, the old Satmar Rov was beyond reproach. Lubavitch was ALWAYS fair game.
howdy
the truth is heshy that satmar is not what it used to be and chabad is also. my question to the room is this: are we even worth being yelled at? Is the Moshanic thing any different with the anti moshianic stuff of 20 years ago?
is there a strenth in being the underdog the black(or white sheep) of the chassidic family? or should we just well tell the world to kiss our collective....
There is a feeling that the chassidic world has dropped the ball. the whole idea of the Bal Shem Tov is less then their current rebbes. to look at the BalShem as some sort of warm zaidy figure who has no relationship to today is shocking.
Mr Tzig,
Isn't it time for some interesting posts?
I see that your counterpart TA has a new thread on one of your first items of interest - The Baal HaTanya's great-grandson via R' Moshe.
Do you have any more post like that in your arsenal, or are you a one hit wonder?
If Lubavitch did not exist, some people would have to invent it.
After all lots of Bnai Towrah have plenty of spare time after their "mighty learning" and why not go after Chabad in a mean way.Satmar is got too much money to tsepe with.
Ever heard of anti semitism without Jews today we have anti-Chabad against a Chabad that does not have a rebbe .
Aumber of years ago I urged a leader of the Lithuanian community (lay leader) to be mechazek Chabad in a certain way rather than be merachek chabad. But once again I ws wrong.
This does not mean that there are not things and manifstations in each community that are worth criticizing, but "mit a shiur".
I remember hearing about the Beis Menachem of BP crowd, that they started off in an old dying shul. When word got out that the Lubavitcher's were taking over a shul in Boro Park, a certain Zundel Berman (publisher) made it his purpose in life to fight them, out of his hatred for Lubavitch & the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Does anyone have more info about this?
Why was Zundel so upset - did Lubavitch ever cross swords with him before?
I remember that!
no, Zundel is an old time hater, and a fanatical one, something not very fitting for a Yerushalayimer yid. He drives around BP and rips down signs advertising Lubavitch shiurim and events. He enlisted in the fight even though he never stepped in there before.
Well, I guess they only hate you if you matter.
HT, were you involved?
I once attended a Simchas Bais HaShoavah Farbrengen hosted by Heichal Menachem in BP, where R' Yoel Kahn was Farbrenging. Outside the Sukkah there was this individual without a beard, that stopped every single yid that didn't appear to be a Lubavitcher Chossid. He would ask them, Why are you coming here? Don't you know that what they are telling you is K'firah and Apikorsus? I asked someone who that indvidual is? I was shocked to hear that his name was ZB.
I heard that the Lubavitchers used underhanded tactics as they tried to take over that Chevra/Shul in BP a number of years ago. I guess that upset people.
In terms of someone opposing Lubavitch activities in BP - last I heard it's a free country. Afilu misnagdim ken zoggen a deiah in America, nein ?
Underhanded, my foot. The shul would've been dead now if not for Beis Menachem.
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