Sunday, December 9, 2007

Machlokes claims another victim: Telshe


(Telshe Yeshivah Building Today)

Yehupitz adds to Circus Tent: My Unexciting (early) Life

Telz Cleveland today is a shadow of what it once was, with hardly a Beis Medrash program to speak of,despite the many Talmidei Chachomim who reside there. It is splintered and rendered utterly impotent by machlokes after machlokes and poorly resolved Din Torah after poorly resolved Din Torah.

Hirshel Tzig adds:

Ah, yes, we all knew that Chassidim are the fighters and do everything just for Kovod and power, especially those darned Lubabs. But Roshei Yeshivah? They do it all just LeHagdil Teyreh ULeHadiroh, all for G-d's Torah, with no ulterior motives whatsoever. After all, didn't the Alter of Slabodka send all his best Talmidim away to help start or strengthen other Yeshivos? Well, my friends, times have changed. Gone are the days when it didn't matter who was learning where, as long as M'hut Gelerent. Yes, there were battles about Ideology, whether or not to allow Mussar into Yeshivos, or whether or not to have a certain person say a Shiur there, but never like this, despite what may have happened in Volozhin in the times of Reb Chaim. Here's what I know about this Din Torah after Din Torah situation in Cleveland that Yehupitz mentioned and how it brought down the jewel of American Yeshivos. I'll readily admit that it isn't much, and I welcome any and all corrections.

Telshe in America was founded by Reb Elya Meir Bloch and his former BIL Reb Mottel Katz who were here on a fundraising trip to help the Yeshivah escape the Russians who had just occupied Lithuania, and were therefore saved from sharing the fate of REMB's brother Reb Avrohom Yitzchok the Rov, his wife, his 4 kids, Reb Mottel's wife and 10 kids, and the whole town on Telshe with all Yeshivah Bochurim. So, in 1941 they set out for Cleveland to build what was supposed to be only the original Yeshivah transplanted there. The Yeshivah had a rough beginning, starting with a few Bochurim from Baltimore and some European refugees, but later was quite Matzliach, and a decade or so later had a large student body from all over the United States, as well as from South America, and Sefardishe Bochurim from Morocco and other countries. A major Klap for the Yeshivah came in 5715 with the untimely passing of the founder and Rosh Yeshivah Reb Elya Meir Bloch zt"l at the age of 60, and it wouldn't so far-fetched to say that the passing was the beginning of the end of Telshe.



After Reb Elya Chaim passed away his BIL Reb Mottel was the Rosh Yeshivah until his passing 10 years later. By that time Telshe Chicago was well under way and this blogger's father was no longer in Cleveland. After Reb Mottel's passing we can easily say that Telshe Cleveland was no longer in "Telshe hands." Yes, there was Rav Gifter and Reb Boruch Sorotzkin, but the former was an American boy who traveled to Telshe, and the latter - although an Eynikel of Reb Lazer Gordon of Telshe - a Baranovicher and Kamenetzer Talmid, and that's surely not the same. Since both Reb Elya Meir and Reb Mottel remarried after the war and passed away at a relatively young age they both had no children of age that could replace them after their passing. So, until today there are no Blochs or Katzs in Telshe Wickliffe. (Cleveland) Reb Elya Meir has a son Yosef Zalman, who lives in Monsey, and is somewhat of a character. Let's just say he doesn't go with the flow and was never offered his father's seat on Sherer's MGT. Reb Mottel has a son that runs the Kolel in Cleveland, but no Rosh Yeshivah shtelle. The Kolel is entirely unrelated to Telshe. Word on the street is that while Reb Boruch Sorotzkin was ill, an illness that he succumbed to, he asked Mechilah from Reb Y Z for not putting him into the Yeshivah, but Y Z refused to forgive him.

What's so ironic today is that Reb Boruch's sons also have no Drisas HoRegel in Wickliffe today. Yes, they put Telshe on their resumes, but all that is BeKoach and not BePoel. The best line was about his son Reb Yitzchok's on Wiki: "Rabbi Yitzchok Sorotzkin is regarded as a dean of the Telz Yeshiva, but has sinced moved to Lakewood, New Jersey!" I wonder why.... Until last year Reb Elya Meir's SIL Reb D Barkin was there, but he never knew his Shver and I don't think he had a Shtelle there, at least not as RY. After Rav Gifter's passing the collapse was probably complete. I don't think many alumni could name you any of the current Roshei Yeshiva there, and for a place that had a very strong alumni association that's just plain sad. Wiki tells us tells us that Reb Zalmen Gifter is there today, so it seems like the Gifter takeover is complete. I imagine the Dinei Torah and Machlokes that Yehupitz speaks of is the Sorotzkin clan wanting what they see as theirs, and maybe the Katzs as well. I'm not sure what starting anew will accomplish if the Dinei Torah will continue. I realize now that they still have the Z'kan Roshei Yeshivos, Reb Chaim Stein, but I don't think he has any say in the Bayeles of the Yeshivah.

The Blogger was helped tremendously by these fine articles.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

''Reb Elya Meir's SIL Reb D Barkin was there, but he never knew his Shver and I don't think he had a Shtelle''

What is this nonsense about???
R'Dovid Barkin olov hasholom was a magid shiur for many years in Telshe!!

(When you quoted Yehupitz as a 'source' for Telz I knew we were going to have another one of those posts where fiction would win hands down over fact.That fellow has nothing to do with Telz never studied there and talking unfortunately out of the proverbial mechila)

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I guess he wasn't good enough to get a "Rosh Yeshivah" next to his name.

That's what I meant by Shtelle

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yehupitz was the source for the first paragraph, no more. Don't blame him for my so-called mistakes.

Anonymous said...

You also conveniently did not note that the 'American boy' R'Mordechai Gifter learned in telz for a long time starting in 1932 AND was chosen to marry R'Zalman Blochs daughter.
In fact you are getting the story the wrong way round.The reason Telz petered out was that it was to similar to the European Telz!
They did not want to change with the times.Small example is the need to go through the whole maggidei shiur system ending at about 22, when most boys would have wanted to go and study in Eretz Yisroel at 20.
IF you want to get a comprehensive pic of Telz it also has to include the founding of TelzStone in Eretz Yisroel wherupon Rav Gifter left to Eretz Yisroel in 1977 for two years, but unfortunately that was not succesful, and Rav Gifter a big ohev of Eretz Yisroel reluctantly came back and never fully recovered from that and ill health.
An interesting tidbit is that Rav Gifters first shtelleh in America was in a Nusach Ari shul in Baltimore.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I read the Wiki article too.

I guess you can use the fact that he was "chosen" to be his SIL as "proof" that he was a Telzer.

Or not.

Anonymous said...

What can we use as 'proof' that you are a 'real' Lubab??
Your disdain and mockery of anything not Lubab?

REST OF COMMENT DELETED. אידיאט

Anonymous said...

Yo
potz!

You censored my post sometime ago about how you -------------- (REST OF COMMENT DELETED.)

No wonder why a pey tsady like you became a Lubab.

You are a real ruchus, not much smarter than the yehupetz potz.

You never had any seychel

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

הנעלבים ואינם עולבים

שומע חרפתו ואינו עונה

Some Snags are so full of hate. I wonder if its the lack of Chassidus in their lives...

Anonymous said...

I wonder why you deleted the 'other' part?

Could it be that it's true?

Could it be that the Lubab teycheser ------------- (rest of comment deleted) to achieve their 'goals'??.

Btw, just because I think that YOU are,were and will always be a tuchus has nothing to do with 'snags filled with hate'

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Mr anonymous Zindel

It seems that you either know who I am or found out who I am. Your silly Tayneh doesn't belong in this blog. If you're one of my acquaintances who's harboring this hatred towards me please e-mail me directly (neveler@gmail.com)I wish I knew why you were so bothered by me. Otherwise, beat it.

Anonymous said...

I live in Cleveland.

b'kitzur, as you wrote, the sons were too young to take over when their fathers dies
died

when the Katz son was old enough, R Gifter zl refused to give him a shtelle. He left the yeshiva, angry. And founded a gevaldige Kollel, entirely unrelated to Telz.

He gets every baelbos in the community there to learn, evenings.
he still has tevios, but I don't know what they are.
Aside from that, when R Geifter zl was niftar, the two memalei makom were R Yitzchak Sorotzkin, and R Zalman Gifter.

I don't know the details, but they didn't get along. Some bochur hoodlums scared R Yitzchak and he decided it wasn't worth the heart problems so he moved to Lakewood. I don't know if he is still making claims or what. But he's not around.

Zalman is left to run the yeshiva himself. But he didn't come into a vacuum. There are rebbeim, RaMim etc. who consider him to be a gornisht. No cheftzah and no gavra.
And remember, there's R'Chaim Stein, who is considered the Zakein of the RY's, who has no cheilek in the baalus of the yeshiva, but he can't be ignored.

there's attempt after attempt to get rid of Zalman, in one way or another. I don't mean fire him. Taht seems to be impossible. But it's not like he's RY anyway. I don't think anyone considers him a Talmid Chochom. I never farhered him, so I don't know. But he's not taken seriously. But Din Torah after Din Torah to somehow minimize him.

There was a gavra who is here who succeeded in reviving the High School. But there was nobody to run the Beis Medrash.
I don't think there is aBeis Medrash program right now.

I think they need one mega-din Torah to end all of them. But instead, they call in a Beis Din from NY to heandle one little thing after another. EG Zalman hired a rebbe for the BM to replace Barkin. Others didn't like him. (I don't know why.)

Then there was an issue about what authority R Chaim Stein had. Then over the HS .

I don't know if R Y. Sorotzkin has bothered to assert any claims. I know R YV Katz wants something done. But he is king of the area where the Kollel is. I can't imagine he wants to go back to Wickliffe.

so that's the mess. The sad part is for those who have sons they want to go to yeshiva for whom the mess in Wickliffe is no option.
they have to send them far away, to Milwaukee or Baltimore.
or elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

I am personally very impressed with Rabbi A. Levitansky from the mechina(a pleasure to hear the man speak) but I hear that he might not wish to stay there long-term

Anonymous said...

you are getting involved with petty little snips and everyone will throw in their wisdom. FACT IS a beis din comprised of Rabbi Dovid Feinstein, Rabbi Aron Schechter, and Rabbi Grumer (raavad Cleveland)issued a PSAK (available for all to see) which the hanhalla defied and seems to do away time and again which in effect has caused all these mini machlokesen which is in effect bringing the place to a close. Self interests and greed is the answer to all the stupid questions one may ask. Roshei Yeshiva should never complain that one doesn't listen to beis din just as they signed against mr. marvin schick because in cleveland they haven't either

Anonymous said...

>>What's so ironic today is that Reb Boruch's sons also have no Drisas HoRegel in Wickliffe today. Yes, they put Telshe on their resumes, but all that is BeKoach and not BePoel.

This is an EXTREMELY ignorant remark. R' Yitzchok was giving shiur in the Beis Medrash for DECADES, giving the highest shiur for many of those years.

Whoever wrote that line in Wikipedia was referring to the fact that R' Yitzchok, one of that gaonei hador, was probably the biggest thing in Telz--certainly after the passing of R' Pesach Stein--and the yeshiva has not been the same since he left (because he did NOT want to deal with machlokes, unlike chassidim). He is regarded as a Telzer Rosh Yeshiva because he was a Telzer Rosh Yeshiva for at least two decaded.

Get an education before you try to insult gaonim of his caliber, and compare him to the pigs out there running around in goyish courts to establish that they are "rebbes."

Anonymous said...

I am sorry for the word "pig." I will stick to what the Mechaber writes about people who use arkaos akum: reshoim and michallel shem shomayim b'rabim. That's better.

Telz never did that. No Yeshiva in the world EVER did that.

So don't compare those reshoim and michallilei shem shomyaim b'rabim with gedolei hador.

PS Rav BARKIN WAS regarded as a rosh yeshiva. I don't know who is giving you such false information.

Anonymous said...

R' Zalman is not a talmid chochom of distinction. The problem is that his personality is one which demands at least the same level of recognition as talmidei chachomim.

To continue with Tzig's analysis, I would agree that non-talmidei chachomim, like R' Zalman, can make a mess of things--as we see in Chassidish circles. But that is as far as logic, common sense and facts can take us here.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that Rav Y Sorotzkin has asserted any claims. He was asked one to come back but he declined. One can presume that Zalman Gifter would have to renounce his right to provide his ignorant "deiah" for someone of Rav Sorotzkin's caliber to come back. On the other hand, Zalman inherited the position, so he believes that he deserves to have a deiah. Practically speakin, intellectual gifts and wisdom are earned, not inherited. Gifter does not see it this way, and is probably too dumb to recognize the inferiority of his intelligence.

Anonymous said...

I guess they have no Terror Brigade to put their competition in place ,like the Rebbe did with the Reshag and at the end he had to resort to Lebediga (suecide) Bombas trying to murder his sister in law for some lousey books But Tzeig only writes about Others by Unz trasitions are smoot

Anonymous said...

I think you should take out your snyde coment about Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin now that you know why he is regarded as a Dean even though he is not there anymore. Imagine the Lubavitcher Rebbe becoming the Bluzhover Rebbe. . . he would still be regarded as the Lubavitcher Rebbe . . .

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

SNIDE? please. All I meant to say was that he's in exile, and that he can't lead the Yeshivah like he should.

Anonymous said...

That's not what your wording actually implies .. .

Anonymous said...

Zalman inherited the position, so he believes that he deserves to have a deiah

No less then any other current roshei Yeshiva around that have inherited(lkwd, mir etc)-He is the only one that tried to reform the yeshiva to become mainstream and cater to todays boys and had all obstacles placed in the way. It's seems to be a wonder what the roshei yeshiva who paskened the din torah thought? obviously your position doesn't equal up to them
by the way when R' Yitzchok left where was the world's protest or at least the local wickliffe residents if it was all that rosey? Does R' Abba G come close to R Elya Ber would he also have to renounce is deah to R Elya Ber If you need more examples we can find them for you- basically midos would help in getting along especially if you dont foot the bill

Anonymous said...

R' Zalman is not a talmid chochom of distinction. The problem is that his personality is one which demands at least the same level of recognition as talmidei chachomim.

and what does your personality show - a hatred so deep - either way what a nice compliment for someone you dislike

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

you're talking to me?

Anonymous said...

>>No less then any other current roshei Yeshiva around that have inherited(lkwd, mir etc)-He is the only one that tried to reform the yeshiva to become mainstream and cater to todays boys and had all obstacles placed in the way. It's seems to be a wonder what the roshei yeshiva who paskened the din torah thought? obviously your position doesn't equal up to them

So what? He is not a talmid chochom. Therefore, he does not deserve a deiah. Its not a wonder to me that he inherited the position, but that he believes he is entitled to an opinion even though he is not much in the learning department.

>>by the way when R' Yitzchok left where was the world's protest or at least the local wickliffe residents if it was all that rosey? Does R' Abba G come close to R Elya Ber would he also have to renounce is deah to R Elya Ber If you need more examples we can find them for you- basically midos would help in getting along especially if you dont foot the bill

>>and what does your personality show - a hatred so deep - either way what a nice compliment for someone you dislike


That is the point, dodo. I don't dislike him. I am just stating facts. I would not send my son to a yeshiva where someone like Zalman was giving a shiur, even if he could give one.

I don't know what you mean. There was a kol. Middos would help. And obviously Zalman does not have it. He should know his place and shut his mouth for the sake of the yeshiva.

Anonymous said...

I would not send my son to a yeshiva where someone like Zalman was giving a shiur, even if he could give one.
if he could then the the problem you claim isn't there then why wouldn't you send your son, must be you've got other issues to tackle with and nothing to do with what your writing about. Must be some truth in what the batei din have seen throughout this saga

Anonymous said...

>>and what does your personality show - a hatred so deep - either way what a nice compliment for someone you dislike

One last point. Compare your statement above when I wrote than Zalman is not a talmid chochom but has an amazingly strong personality--a fact which Zalman himself, if he is an honest man, at least, would not deny--to your comment below:

>>by the way when R' Yitzchok left where was the world's protest or at least the local wickliffe residents if it was all that rosey? Does R' Abba G come close to R Elya Ber would he also have to renounce is deah to R Elya Ber If you need more examples we can find them for you- basically midos would help in getting along especially if you dont foot the bill

What does YOUR "personality show" but hatred toward a Gaon? Rancor toward one who was regarded by Rav Shach while he was still in his forties to one who can convey the mesorah of Torah?!?! R' Yitzchok does not have middos? Now that's a personal attack, one that is not predicated by one's genes (intelligence) or hard work (talmid chochom). R' Yitzchok suffered heart attacks from the grief Zalman and his follwers gave him. How much more was he supposed to endure? He did his best, but Zalman refused to do anything for the Yeshiva. And changing the tzura of the Yeshiva for some kids who don't know what it means to learn Torah yet is not neccessarily the best thing one can do for Telz. This is a serious question and it certainly does not automatically lend credence to Zalman's contributions to the yeshiva that he is willing to change the entire mesorah for money and fame. The fact is that under Zalman's watch, Telz closed down and lost all its Beis Medrash Ramim and bachurim. That is a serious flaw which far outweighs the more esoteric question as to the degree of fealty the yeshiva owes to its roots prior to Churban Europa. And one which Zalman refuses to acknowledge, let alone answer. My advice to him would be to take it back, suck in his pride, and try to save the Yeshiva. But his ego is too hurt for that. How far away is he from R' Leizer who was willing to abandon his position as Rosh Yeshiva, Rav and Telz, and even leave Telz because his love of Torah guided him to relinquish everything for R' Chaim to be the Rosh Yeshiva?

Anonymous said...

??if he could then the the problem you claim isn't there then why wouldn't you send your son, must be you've got other issues to tackle with and nothing to do with what your writing about. Must be some truth in what the batei din have seen throughout this saga.

I am not so sure what you mean by this comment. You are not writing clearly. My point, which I did not write clearly was, that I would not send my son to hear a shiur from an ordinary person. Aye, you would ask, what if he would not be ordinary? What if he was someone who learned before he was a bar mitzvah bachur and continued to learn gantz shas klohr with Rishonim, Acharonim and Poskim? What if he was mechadesh unbelievable chiddushim which would take up literally DOZENS of seforim to hold? What if he was the kind of person who would give over the kind of Torah which the Z'kan Rosh HaYeshivas, Rav Shach, z"l, commented was the mesorah of Torah while he was still in his forties? I would tell you then it would be fine, as Zalman would be R' Yitzchok Sorotzkin.

But he is not. I remember him as the large fellow who shlepped his father around in the wheel chair. As the dorm Counselor. If one had a kashya, one did NOT go to him. One DID go to R' Yitzchok.

So back to my comment, why would I want an ordinary man to give shiur to my son? I would want someone who killed himself over Torah his whole life to give shiur to my son. Because the man who gives over Torah to my son must give over the pnimius of Torah, as well, and that is derviced from mesiras nefesh and ameilus, and not a yerusha.

I don't know what you mean by a beis din saga--if you mean that Zalman was yoresh, I don't see the saga, he WAS yoresh. But not beis din can "paskin" someone who is not a talmid chochom to be a talmid chochom. And luckily for Zalman, this was not made an issue. It is simply something Telzers who know him know.

I don't know if you are a Telzer, but I cannot understand how you can be so obtuse about an issue as obvious as the fact that one who cannot learn cannt be a rosh yeshiva. R' Malkiel is a gantz chashuve talmid chochom--R' Nosson Tzvi and R' Asher are great talmidei chachomim. You would have a rayah if Ahron Kotler would be Rosh Yeshiva, as opposed to CEO of the BMG. But he is not. Because he can't.

And neither can Zalman Gifter, , ,

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone with a Jewish spirit want to write nasty one-sided attacks regarding a yeshiva with such a glorified path.Especially on this hate-filled Lubab blog that relish the diversion from their avoido zoro Moshiach/getschkeh?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

it's past, not path. I guess we found another Getshke, eh?

Attacking me, a scion of a time when Telshe was great, won't save you. Besides, you wouldn't know what "Jewish Spirit" was if it hit you on the head.

Anonymous said...

Save me??
Oh, I guess if you accept the Getschkeh you are 'saved'??
Sir,
Unfortunately I'm not the only person who doubts Lubavitch connection to authentic Judaism.Actually some rabbis have ruled that your shechitta is neveila!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Try and stick to the topic here, there are plenty of other places to knock Lubavitch.

GoodBye.

Anonymous said...

Few important comments:
The issue is nihul hayeshiva not who is a greater Talmid Chacham.
There is no one that questions R' Yitzchok's gadlus b'torah, hasmada, etc. at all- but that isn't the wickliffe issue at all.

"I remember him as the large fellow who shlepped his father around in the wheel chair"
that sure says alot about his kibbud av obviously your missing some chinuch (hope you won't have to be forced into an equal matzav to appreciate what he as an only available son did for his father) you also don't seem to remember his learning with him bchavrusah either!

Just by the way- aron kotler is very much in the driver's seat

Anonymous said...

>>that sure says alot about his kibbud av obviously your missing some chinuch (hope you won't have to be forced into an equal matzav to appreciate what he as an only available son did for his father) you also don't seem to remember his learning with him bchavrusah either!

No, this says nothing about my position on kibbud av, and please don't change the issue. This says very much about what he was capable of doing--realistically. He could not give a shiur then, he cannot give a shiur now. Aharon Kotler may be in the driver's seat, but he is not Rosh Yeshiva. I realize its not the best example as Ahron has a deiah--a serious one--but its limited to finances. This may mean that someone like even someone as controversial and unimpressive (compared to the Lakewood talmidei chachomim) as Ahron Teitelbaum may speak at a dinner, but it does not go beyond the sphere of money. If Zalman was willing to do this, it would have been great. He wasn't.

Learning with his father is not a big chiddush for obvious reasons. This is why I did not bring it up. I cannot understand why you would think that as demonstrative as anything. One who is not in learning does not deserve a title like Rabbi. One who is not in learning does not have a deiah in how a yeshiva should be run. Their sphere could be with their family, driving people in cars of wheel chairs. An executive dorm counselor, perhaps. But let's be realistic about this man's competence.

Anonymous said...

What is the wikliffe situation that you are referring to?

Anonymous said...

For those who don't know, R. Yitzchok Sorotzkin is a major gaon and published many seforim.

Anonymous said...

Major gaon is almost an understatement

Anonymous said...

Its refreshing to see that somone as great a gaon as harav Dovid Barkin Zt"l and certin as much rights as anyone in telz' lived his life without fights got along with everybody. you see it is שייך to live a life like that.

Anonymous said...

The Emes should dicatae the current situation... In understanding what's going on the following should be considered:
The yorshim are only attemting to inherit that what they beieve is theirs...Bloch-Katz-Sorotzkin-Gifter...but the Emes is all of these individuals are NOT part of the current/daily operations of the Yeshiva...The Yeshiva is CURRENTLY being runned by teh Hanhala and the Rosha Hayeshiva Rav C> Stein... I Pity these individuals of whom the Chafetz Chaim states in Hilchos Loshan Horah the SEVERITY of one who speaks L"H and evil about a Makom Torah! Obviously when it comes to speak AGAINST TELZ these individuals feel 'exempt'?! from speaking against this Makom Torah...

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous: I agree with your June 16th comment that those individuals (Bloch-Katz-Sorotzkin-Gifter) Are NO longer part of the daily scene even though each one might rightfully claim ownership. The FACT is Telz is being runned by its current administration. One needs to feel sorry for individuals EVEN frum-Talmidei Chachim who engage in LOSHON HARA AND ATTEMPTING TO CAUSE another Churban to the Yeshiva...Mazel Tov to Rabbi Brog (Sorotzkin)who opened up his Yeshiva on the Telshe campus---Lets hope that he will at least appreciate Telz allowing(?) his Talmidim to eat the food provided by Telz and giving safe have to R"Z Gifter

Anonymous said...

I am a Telzer talmid who learned there during the period of R' Motel Katz ZT"L and during the period of R'Boruch ZT"L and Rav Gifter ZT"L. I knew Zalman as a baby , even then he was ill tempered and had much hatred, chutzpah, azus ponim and rishus in him as opposed to his brothers R'Binyomin who decided to be a baal habayis and his brother R'Yisroel who even as a baby had a very sweet personality and is the yoreish of his father ZT"L's gaonus. Rav Avrohom Fuer the son in-law is also a gaon and talmid chochom of renown. Rav Gifter ZT"L must be turning over in his grave from Zalman's hanhogos.
I was a tamid Chaver of R'Yitzchok Sorotzkin and close a close chaver of his cousins the sons of R' Lazer Sorotzkin ZT"L.
R' Yitzchok was a Rosh Yeshiva and has the right to the title as well as R'Dovid Barkin ZT"L who aside from being a gaon was a tzaddik nistar.
As far as R'Chaim Stein Shlit"a , he always was very involved in running the Yeshiva though his anivus never let him claim a baylus.
Zalman Gifter chased away the finest Ramim and Yungerleit, to this day R'Lozer Levy the Rosh Mechina and R'Yechezkel Munk the mashgiach of teh mechina no longer set foot in the yeshiva though they live a stone's throw away.
Zalman Gifter ruined teh yeshiva and will answer to the Ribbono shel Olom one day!

Anonymous said...

which ramim and yungerleit did he chase away

your line about R lozer levy and r' yechezkel munk are very off the mark r lozer levy when he would come to the yeshiva for yom tov he would only speak to r zalmon and not listen and make fun of everyone else on the mizrach as for r' munk he along with r' levy learn in the michina bais medrash to show that lubab who is trying to run the place that they were there before him and he should folow in their ways

Anonymous said...

I was in Telz for few years and I always had a nice oppurtunity to speak with Maran Harosh Yeshiva Harav Zalmen Gifter. If Rabbi Sorotskin is not there anymore, so what's the point of haaking this whole politics. It's a big Chillul Hashem and it's a lot of Loshen Horah and it has to stop. This is holding Moshiach from coming.

Anonymous said...

Hi

Anonymous said...

I don't understand why people are still haaking about politics in Telz Yeshiva if Rabbi Sorotskin is not there anymore. The person that started up this whole politics, he does not understand that this is a HUGE Chillul Hashem, a lot's of Loshon Horah. And this is stopping Moshiach from coming.

Anonymous said...

hershel its time to write an update of the situation.
gifter lost the din torah and he is finally out. hopefully the yeshiva will now be able to grow and spread torah.
you know how to get the details .....