Monday, March 10, 2008

My, how we've grown!



Most of you should know by now about the grandiose Bar Mitzvah of Sholom Rokeach last week. Belz seems to do that alot these days, go all the way with their Simchos. The Belzer Rebbe supposedly told people not to publicize the events until the week of the Simcha, yet the publicity it generated and received is hard to top. Anyway, no Belzer with a shred of self-respect was seen on the street in Boro Park. If, for some reason, he couldn't make it, then he was holed up in his house, not daring to show his face. the event was covered by a horde of media people, frum and non-frum, Jewish and Non-Jewish, and every move was scrutinized, including why the Boocher sat on 4 plastic chairs, when all he's the main event... The Belzers were quick to respond that it was the youg lad himself who asked for a stack of chairs, being that he couldn't see what was going on!!!

What is it about Belz that has seen the exponential growth happen in the last 50 years? Is it all about the legacy of Belz that attracts all those people? Is it the charismatic personality of the Belzer Rebbe Shlita? Many would say that he banished and was merachek almost as many old Belzers as later joined Belz. Those who left felt that due to his personality Belz may not have a Minyan of Mispalelim very soon, and that all would leave. they also saw the previous Belzer Rov as irreplaceable, the fact that he a nephew not withstanding. Yet, 40 years later, it seems like he's the one who has the laugh, with thousands upon thousands attending his Tishen, Yomim Tovim, and Simchos. It would to me, the unaffiliated one, that they love and respect him tremendously, which would make think that it's a Bechinah of Kemayim HaPonim el HaPonim. Otherwise I see no reason for the growth. Some would say that it's not him they're there for, but for "Beis Belz," the fact that Belz must go on. Maybe.


From Here

One thing we know; He does as he pleases, and I mean that in a good way. No Gabbai or Eltere Chossid tells how he should do things. He kept those he liked and threw out those he saw as a threat to his Rebbistive. People said he was crazy, that he'd be nothing without them, but he had the last laugh, and nobody questions him, at least not on the surface, and he does as he pleases. The examples are countless, starting from the unthinkable; the talk against the Satmar Rov and the break away from the Edah HaCharedis. I need Rabbonim, you say? I'll make my own Beis Din, complete with womb to tomb services, anybody who's born here can die here 120 years later without ever having to leave. His joining with Degel HaTorah awoke the wrath of many, especially in Lubavitch, but even more so his FIL, the Vizhnitzer Rebbe, Shlita. After the attack last week on Mercaz HaRav word spread that the Belzer Rebbe attended the Levayas. That won him brownie points. Then the pictures of his visit to one of the wounded in Sha'arei Tzedek Hospital began to surface. That scored tons of points. Some Belzer ruined the good feelings by announcing that he was there visiting his mother anyway, not that he made a special trip. Whatever. It still shows that he's following his heart/gut feeling, and all these steps add up. Even I was impressed.

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

it is soooo him! he is by far the greaest rebbe out there- an organizational genius, devoted to the yachid, and a true pikeach- he also charges them lots of $ to be his chassid. yet they pay happily

Mottel said...

I've heard horror stories about people who couldn't make the fees.

Josh said...

So they put down a million dollars for this בר מצוה and then the bochur himself eats off of plastic plates, drinks out of a platic cup and sits in a beach chair?!?!?!
That is the most declasse thing I have ever seen.

SatmarTC said...

Belzer Rebbe is a tzaddik and a GREAT Rebbe

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
Nobody left Belz for the reason of not having Minyan,
90% were the most respectful chasidim as the Rosh Yeshiva Reb Sholem ZT"L that was chased by Yankel Brauner and his ilk that threw a chair on him.Hirshel you touching a field thats not for you, go back to Spinka.

Anonymous said...

obviously kak admor felt that the fees are important-at least he has what to show for it

Hirshel Tzig said...

anonymous 9:46pm

did I say that that's why they left, because he wouldn't have a minyan? no. Read it again.

I'm not in Spinka, so I won't go back there. Besides, is everybody else open to discussion besides for Belz? why are they so special???

Lucky Wolf said...

at first i thought the headlines were referring to the Challas.

friendly said...

yo shopping for a new .....??????!!! ;)

Hirshel Tzig said...

not funny. no.

Twistelton-twistelton said...

"I've heard horror stories about people who couldn't make the fees."

Please elaborate. Is there a set charge to go to tish, like an addmission fee. Or dose each kvittel have a minimum donation.

One thing is for sure, he got a lot of good press for his reaction to the tragedy at Mercaz harav, and deserved it to. Where were the other Admorim and Rosh Yeshivas?

psol said...

You forget his genuine big accomplishment, the "work" speech.

think said...

I once heard the following vort.

In Tehilim it says Hakshivah el renosi ki dalosi m’od.

The question is obvious, if you are in a matzav of dalosi (poor) then why are you singing (renosi)

The answer is, sometimes you can tell how poor a person is by his song. For example, if you witness a person jumping for joy because he found a piece of bread, then the joy itself becomes an indicator as to how dire the situation really is.

Dovid was saying, listen to my song and from it itself, you will be able to understand how awful my situation is.

The fact that people are singing the praise of certain leaders for attended the funeral or visiting the wounded of a terror attack, is itself a testament to dalosi M'OD

Mottel said...

The building fees of the Belzer Beis Hamkidash were basically compulsory -people who didn't give money . . .
(I'm not chas v'sholom saying that the Belzer Rebbe is involved in this . . .)

Nei-eh shteitalle Belz said...

From reliable sources this is the "reid" in this Belzer Rebbe (born 1948):

-Everyone says he is an illui, knows how to learn, and very brilliant, that he could be a CEO, and that he runs and builds Belz like an empire.

-After the fourth Belzer Rebbe Aharon Rokeach died childless in 1957 leaving his nine year old nephew Yissachar Dov Rokeach (II) (as he is titled on Wikipedia) as a POSSIBLE future successor.

-When he, Yissachar Dov Rokeach (II) came of age and ascended to power at the age of 18, and being married already at 17 to the daughter of the Vizhnitzer Rebbe, he hit the ground running as Rebbe of Belz following a "kroinung" as a Rebbe at the gravesite of his uncle the previous Belzer Rebbe after which he immediatly received supplicants with kvitlech and bakooshes. Seems that they were mechanech him in Vizhnitz in all the "insider information" of how a Rebbe functions as a Rebbe.

-He quickly set about getting rid of anyone that had supported any other candidates for Belzer Rebbe during the interregnum between a 4th and 5th Rebbe at Belzs no matter how much they had connections with old-time Blez.

-There were, and are, old-time Belzers who were never mekabel him as Rebbe and spoke out against him and they were known as the "mordim" (new take on "misnagdim"?) and in some places pitched battles on the streets were fought between his supporters and the "mordim"! His goons won.

-He is an Israeli, more of a Sabra really, and does not think in "old world" terms because he is more a product of combative modern Israel than submissive old Poland or Galitzia. In other words he is absolutely ruthless.

-He thinks "outside of the box" to a much higher degree than any modern-day Rebbe and will do anything to further his singular position. Examples:

-So that he when he needed the grounds to build his new shull, he outfoxed Abe Fruchthandler of Yeshiva Chaim Berlin who already put down big money for building Yeshiva Pachad Yitzchok named for Rav Hutner zt"l (at the same time that Rav Hutner himself had the highest praise for the young Belzer Rebbe's kishrones);

-The Belzer Rebbe came to America to beg the Satmar Rebbe for a brocha to have children and it is said that the only son that was born to him later came from this brocha;

-He even met with former NYC Mayor Ed Koch whose family came from Belz once upon a time!

-He went to see the late Lubavitcher Rebbe who encouraged him to get involved in Kiruv Rechokim and the Belzer Rebbe subsequently set up a ba'al teshuva yeshiva in Israel called "Torah Ve'Yir'ah" and "Na'aseh VeNishmah" outreach centers in Israel that still exist (in Israel they let in ba'alei teshuva to become Belzer chasidim!) and for a few years Bel, on orders of the the Belzer Rebbe, ran a kiruv center in Manhattan called "Sinai Heritage Center";

-He was subsequently not afraid to break with the Eidah HaCharedis to set up his own beis din and hechsher which made him a target of Satmar anger who trashed the Belzer shtiebel in Williamsburg, beating up some Belzers if they caught them (it was in the NY Times) and drove out any last Belzers to Boro Park where they regrouped and built up their network of Belzer shtieblach and yeshivas;

-He joined Rav Shach in Degel HaTorah in defiance of the other Rebbes in Israel and even personally invited and received Rav Shach at his son's Bar Mitzvah. It was splashed all over the Jewish and Israeli papers.

-Unfortunately, he is merciless, most of all to his Chasidim who must not just find money to visit him in Israel a few times EVERY year, but are expected to come with tons of money and hand it over to him.

-There are stories of how he counts the money a chosid brings and if he deems it not sufficient will toss it back waiting for the higher amount to be brought it.

-He had a nervous breakdown at some point from all his ambitions and it is noteworthy that he is never seen smiling neither in life nor any in photos (and the Yated and Modiah publish lots of him) and that he is hugely overweight, and never looks happy, all signs of serious depression.

-Nevertheless, his chasidim think he is the real-deal "Moshiach" and unfortunately his (successful) empire building, megalomania and ego-mania encourages that sort of mind-set.

-His son and grandosn are little pishers and have no say in anything.

-They say his wife, the Rebbetzin Sarah Hager, daughter of the present ailing Viznitzer Rebbe, is as brilliant as he is and is quite the power behind the throne. The "Neshei Belz" go to her for leadership and eitzos.

Guravitzer said...

He came to the Rebbe like I come here: "Ich bin gekimen zich unvaremen".

Josh said...

500 dollars/year for a seat in the shul
which all chassidim, even those not in Jlem are expected to pay.
And noone else can use it while you are not there!

Anonymous said...

and what about an entire infrastructure that is set up so that EVERYONE working or learning has a place, chavrusa, chaburah, mashpia, social circe etc. If aBelzer from Belgium moved to Montreal, he will immedialely be 'hooked up' with a place and be expected to perform; show up for learning, davenenig, They will help him set up a business and patronize him- they are tryly great, just so.....

belz!

tzibaleh said...

me does not think that ambition is a cause in nervous break down. i think that episode had to do with his worries re: if he could make it with the "bais hamikdosh"

Nei-eh shteitalleh Belz said...

Tzibaleh:

New Belzer "bais hamikdosh" = megalamonia and messiah-complex writ large!

What is it with all those "chasidim"? Why can't people see through all this phoney-baloney showmanship for the power-hungry and parasitic cultishness that it is?

There should be a kina on Tisha Be'Av, oy meh haya lanu over this kind of abuse of Klal Yisroel by megalomaniacs.

All those ads in the Jewish media to help starving Israeli families, what if all the money that is funnelled to the Belzer ganev went to aniyei Yisroel instead, wouldn't that give more nachas ruach to the Eibishter?

It was recently said that the chasidim built him a pure PURE gold-encased indoor pond for Tashlich. How far does the craziness have to go till it will all come crashing down like the end of the corrupt monarchies in Europe?

It's time to democratize the frum world and not live by the dictates of twisted and merciless "jabba the hut" type leaders.

SatmarTC said...

hey
many ppl jealous here
thay cannot see a Great Rebbe having success , that they jump trying to find this and that
The same thing with the Lub Rebbe!
come on

Nei-eh shteitalleh BElz said...

Satmartc:

There is "greatness" and there is abuse of power.

If you subtract MONEY and POWER, what makes this rebbe "great"? Or for that matter most rebbes and rosh yeshivas nowadays?

The Chofetz Chaim lived in a mud-floored hut, was anonymous till he was very old and and wrote seforim that are still guiding Klal Yisroel. The Lubavitcher Rebbe's teachings fill dozens of volumes, motivated thousands of shluchim to help and mekarev other people, he was against being a "tzadik in peltz". The Vilner Gaon sat alone and learned for 22 hours a day. The Baal Shem Tov was a melamed tinokes and a ba'al agoleh.

Ya'akov Ovinu, Mosheh Rabbeinu and Dovid HaMelech were sheperds smelling and caring for stinky sheep and goats for a long time before they became manhigim of the Klal. Today's rebbes and rosh yeshivas only think about how to raise money and build big buildings and live like kings and put even their pisher grandkids on fake tiered "thrones", hint-hint, this kid is the future "melech". The Belzer are worst of all. No rachmunes on anyone, not even on their own people, like Tzig mentioned, the ones left in Boro Park have to hide at home in case someone asks why they are not in the "bais hamikdosh with moshiach". Since when do Rebbes have to act and be like the Donald Trumps of the world? Is that Yiddishkeit?

What has become of "...Belz, mein shteitalleh Belz..."? OY MEH HAYA LANU !!!!

Volvie said...

Neiah Shteitaleh Belz,
You've collected a bunch of mistruths and exaggerations about the Belzer Rebbe.Firstly, Belzer Chasidim were not 'beaten up on the street in Williamsburg'-There was a fight between Belz and Satmar and nobody was attacked on the street, though in very few instances, hotheads from both sides came to blows.The Shtiebl was not trashed and Belz still has 100 families and a kolel on Hooper Street in Willy.
Nobody forces one to be a Belzer chosid, so all those that stay are happy to do so.Belz is a proud and strong chassidus that also has many world class talmidei chachumim.
I'm not a Belzer, but I live in Williamsburg and can tell you that Belz is considerd and example of how to run a kehilla.

Nei-eh shteitalleh Belz said...

Volvie:

The Belzer goons beat up the "mordim" even in London. Don't make out like they are like the boy scouts when they are thugs. The Satmars just gave them a taste of their own medicine.

You claim there are a "100 families" that are Belz in Williamsburg, ok maybe, did you count them, but the main group was chased out after the Belzer Rebbe broke with the Eidah HaChareidis. Try mention the name of Belz or "Yissocher Dov Rokeach" in a crowd of Satmar Chasidim and see what happens next. It will not be pleasant.

If "Belz is considerd and example of how to run a kehilla" so what? The KGB knew how to run the USSR and Billary know how to keep their "chasidim" in line too, so what does that prove? That cults, mind-control, ego-mania, (and paranoia), and psychophantism are alive and well.

Oy Meh Haya Lanu!

SatmarTC said...

money?
Rebbeim?

Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi spent the equivalent of 24 million dollars in his son's chassanah
One the most important things that u can do with your money is give them to TCs ,so they can have anoho from youe nechasim
In your megusham perspective , you see as everything is money, power , abuse, ijf you go to the BMikdash you only see blood and a butchery
This is not from a holly Rebbe's perspective

Yechiel said...

It is my opinion that no one in this generation is more fit to be Moshiach than the Belzer Rebbe, shlit"a. Yechi!!! We must do everything we can to help bring Moshiach not tomorrow--but now!!!

Mottel said...

Nei-eh shteitalleh BElz

Just for your information -the song shteotalleh Belz is not about the Belz of the Rokeach's but rather Bălţi Moldova

Friendly Anonymous said...

The more chassidim you have, the greater koichoys you receive from Hashem:"Lech Reyd...klum nosati lecho gedulo elo bishvil Yisroel". In addition, the fact that so many great people were mekasher themselves to the Lubavitcher Rebbe and had such emunoh in him was itself the source of much of the Rebbe's koychois. Mystical concepts, to be sure, but with their source in Ramban, etc.

yoshe kalb said...

mottel, it's not belz and not balti, but beltzy in Moldavia.

Mottel said...

Bălţi is Beltzy in Moldavian . . .

Shimon said...

And the song isnt Mayn Shtetele Belz but “BELTZ, Mayn Shtetele”.

Its composer Alexander Olshanetsky (1892-1946) had moved to the US from Bessarabia in 1921, the lyrics are by Jacob Jacobs (1892-1972).

Anonymous said...

Yechiel,

How can he ever be moshiach if he does not bring simcha?

Anonymous said...

Volvie
Don't tell me, I was there on the night of Kristalnacht on the streets of Willie, they were beating Belzers on Bedford and Penn and in the Shtiebel on Ross was a official pogrom beating up people as the old Reb Meilech Wieder Z"L in middle of a minyan maariv, they tore apart the shul

Shimon said...

He is the 7th Nassi(including the Besht and the Maggid).He is Shabbos Shabboson... Yechi

Just a pre-purim wort

expert on chassidus said...

ok ok ok just to put things in persepctive;

he isnt moshiach, he isnt the happiest fellow, but he is head and shoulders above the other rebbes in terms of ahnahaga- real, genuine leadership abilities and devotion to his chassidim-

They Love Him and would happily go through fire for him

Diagnosis said...

Wikipedia defines "Megalomania" as:

"Megalomania (from the Greek word μεγαλομανία) is a historical term for behavior characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, genius, or omnipotence - often generally termed as delusions of grandeur. The word is a collaboration of the word "mania" meaning madness and the Greek "megalo" meaning "very large", "great", or "exaggerated", thus combining to denote an obsession with, either in the form of irrational perceived need for or preoccupation with in one's own estimation having and/or obtaining, grandiosity and extravagance (especially in the form of great fame and popularity, material wealth, social influence or political power, or more than one or even all of the aforesaid) and accompanying complete desirous and bombastic abandon; a common symptom if not the key diagnostic feature of megalomania.

It is often symptomatic of manic or paranoid disorders."

The Belzer Rebbe fits this description. Very sad.

Anonymous said...

The yeshiva is Tora Ve'Emuna.
Not Tora veira, thats satmar.

Double Helix said...

When the Belzer Rebbe visited the newly built huge Gerer Beis Medrash he was quoted as saying;
zarns is gresser ober marns is shenner

evanstonjew said...

Questions...how much does it cost to be a Belzer chasid? It can't be too much since most are not wealthy.

Where did the chasidim who didn't vore for the current rebbe go,(Machnovka?)How many people left?

Where did all these chasidim come from? Most were born after the war? I would guess most are not from old Belzer families.

If almost all were never in Belz, and the Rebbe is a bit dour why are the chassidim so enthusiastic? This is not a dumb place either in learning or in sechel. Why are they so attached?

Hirshel Tzig said...

Diagnosis:

Sorry, I had to axe the last comment. Too much church talk for my taste. Try it again.

baalbatish said...

Tzig said : Otherwise I see no reason for the growth. Some would say that it's not him they're there for, but for "Beis Belz," the fact that Belz must go on.
-----------------------------------
Most of the families joined after the war so why did they join Belz?
Is it just the “anti-Satmar” for those who didn’t feel comfortable in Satmar?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anonymous said...
it is soooo him! he is by far the greaest rebbe out there- an organizational genius, devoted to the yachid, and a true pikeach- he also charges them lots of $ to be his chassid. Yet they pay happily
Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:15:00 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can one rebbe possibly provide the proper individual attention to so many thousands of Chassidim?
Please give examples of true pikeach?
How much does he charge them and how do you know they pay happily?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mottel said...
I've heard horror stories about people who couldn't make the fees.
Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:56:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------
Give us some details.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Nei-eh shteitalle Belz said.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who crowned him at 17? Please explain how eltereh yidden go and give a kvittel to a teenager? What’s the mind set? Is it just the awe of aristocracy and blue bloodedness?
Who were the other potential candidates that he eliminated?
Interesting how Chaim Berlin/Fruchthandler pop up in the Belzer story.
Do you have examples of his ruthlessness? To others? To his Chassidim?
How much is ton of money that they have to hand over to him? Why do they allow themselves to be abused in this fashion?
If he is depressed how does he administer his flock and why do they put up with it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is too much information on this blog. Mein shtetele Belz is about a Romanian stet? Horrors!
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expert on chassidus said...
They Love Him and would happily go through fire for him
Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:02:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------
Why the love and devotion? What does he offer? Is he like a cold father that they seek a tiny bit of recognition? Handshake or a shokel mit der kop?
Finally, Belz is too big not to have real dissension within the ranks. It’s not the Jewish way to all accepting and harmonious.
A lot of Chassidim were born into it and they know of no other way and they can’t leave, where will they go?

Diagnosis said...

Sure Tzig.
Evanstonjew asks some very good questions about the modern Blzers "Why are they so attached?"
and for a start some of the answers can be found in basic psychology, like Wikipedia says about "Mind control", for example, and there is more:

"Mind control (or "brainwashing") refers to a broad range of psychological tactics able to subvert an individual's control of his own thinking, behavior, emotions, or decisions. The concept is closely related to hypnosis, but differs in practical approach.

There are a number of controversial issues regarding mind control and the methods by which control might be attained (either direct or more subtle) are the focus of study among psychologists, neuroscientists, and sociologists.

The question of mind control has been discussed in relation to religion, politics, prisoners of war, totalitarianism, black operations, neural cell manipulation, cults, terrorism, torture, parental alienation, and even battered person syndrome....

Also, questions of mind control are regarding ethical questions linked to the subject of free will...

Milieu Control.

This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

Mystical Manipulation.

There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.

Demand for Purity.

The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

Confession.

Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

Loading the Language.

The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clich�s, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

Dispensing of existence.

The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also."

So much of this fits that it is frightening to think what kind of "Torah" world is being created here.

Yechiel said...

>>How can he ever be moshiach if he does not bring simcha?

Ah, the Belzer Rebbe's simcha is b'hester--a higher form of simcha. This further proves that he is Moshiach Vadai!

There is no question in my mind that no person in this generation is fit to be Moshiach--he even built the Belzer Mikdash b'mkomo!!!

He is being mekarev everyone, is more involved with every kind of Jew than anyone else, and he is fighting wars against poverty, tumah, and lack of shmiras hamitzvos. He is the real deal. I would go to him to coronate him myself, but I am now in the states.

the belzer rebbe shlit'a said...

thank you thank you thank you. heres the problem; what do we do with the beis rabbenu shebebavel being gematria 770? theres no way aorund that airtight argument for lubavitch.

open said...

all this talk about depression, since when is depression such foreign to a chassidishe, the kotzke diesnt go down in history as a happy chappy. and the Rashab also seems to have had a dash with freud.
it's not a negative, it may be a byproduct of the responsibility of the job.

Chaim Berlin tragedy said...

Baalbatish goes in all sorts of directions, and says "Interesting how Chaim Berlin/Fruchthandler pop up in the Belzer story."

This is no accident because "Chaim Berlin/Fruchthandler" put down a lot of money to buy karka in the same spot in Yerushalayim where the Belzer Rebbe had his eye to build his mega-shtiebel.

The Chaim Berlin/Fruchthandler people had put down a lot of money already by the time the Belzer Rebbe sprung his trap on them, and many tens of thousands of dollars went down the tubes twenty years ago in the belief that they were all set to build their Yeshiva Pachad Yitzchok in that prime location when they found out that the Belzer Rebbe had by hook and by crook somehow gotten people in the Jerusalem municipality to give him a permit to build his place there too leaving the Chaim Berlin people steaming mad and causing Abe Fruchthandler a hefsed merubeh even by his standards and of course the shame of being outplayed by the Belzer Rebbe in a real estate deal which is what Fruchnadlers do fo a living.

The end result was that Rav Yitzchok Hutner's son-in-law, Rav Yonason David declared that "GANTS BELZ IZ TREIF" !!!

Rav David and Fruchthandler were forced to go look somewhere else to build the Yeshiva Pachad Yitzchok in Yerushalayim and they finally settled on Har Nof as the place and had to pay and start building from scratch.

Of course the Belzer Rebbe lost no sleep over this because his empire was bigger than Yeshiva Chaim Berlin's but they have not forgiven him ad hayom hazeh.

Anonymous said...

The Reshabs depression was a symptom of his absolute Yiras Shomaim he was hours in Dviekus writing his deep Mamorim on Achdus Hashem while leading Chasidim with earthly mundane stuff vs. a megalomaniac that needs the nicest shul on earth on the back of thousands of schnorers.
The Admorim of Visnitz, Gur and Satmar have international gevirim, Belz has no rich chasidim so one Erev Pesach the Rebbe went beserk

Anonymous said...

Evanston
Big part of Chasidim went to the Old Skverer and they stayed there even when he became Rebbe, and many Hungarians that became Belzers when the uncle was in Budapest in the midst of the WW11 war went to Satmar.
The Kicsi Puper Rov delivered a whole Uberlander Kehila of Montreal on a golden plate for Belz
and then he followed his tradition of Meshalem Rouo Tachas Tov and didn"t even eulogize him, since he got himself a plot near his cousin and Rebbe in Westchester NY

Anonymous said...

tragedy; how did the chaim berlin/ belzers, ie shimmy biegeleisen accept that fight?

Chaim Berlin tragedy said...

Abe Fruchthandler's verdict on the Belzers after the Belzer Rebbe and his henchmen stole the plot in Yerushalayim where Yeshiva Chaim Berlin wanted to build Yeshiva Pachad Yitzchok for which Fruchthandler had already paid tens of thousands with his own money, but where the Belzers then built their 'bais hamikdosh' instead: Belzers are GANGSTERS! (Fruchty's own words, bli guzma'os...anyone is free to check this with him and see his reaction when you mention that parsha or the name "Belz" it will not be a happy moment, guaranteed!)

Anonymous said...

>>thank you thank you thank you. heres the problem; what do we do with the beis rabbenu shebebavel being gematria 770? theres no way aorund that airtight argument for lubavitch.

We say that a questionable gematria which really means nothing (who cares about beis rabbenu shebebavel when we alredy have someone who brought the mikdash b'mkomo!!! And what about the FACT that he is the greatest Jew who lived in the past 1000 years?) has no bearing on the air tight proves which conclusively demonstrate that the Belzer is Moshiach. I have done everything I can; now its up to YOU to bring him!!!

evanstonjew said...

diagnosis...I don't buy your explanation unless you can add specific facts how these mind control features operate here and not in some other chasidus. If it is a point about chasidus or charedi life as a whole I don't believe it's true and it still doesn't account for the unique character of Belz.

I point out for all the juicy material there is a dearth of hard facts and lived experience from within. As in all anthropological studies we need an honest informant whose knowledge of the society comes from being a member of the society.

Alex said...

Obadiah Shoher blames Israeli government for the attack at Merkaz HaRav. His point, basically, that the
peace process sends so mixed signals to common Arabs as to, in effect, provoke them to terrorist acts.
His article is here http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-mind-game.htm Shoher's view is refreshing on the background
of both "Almost all Arabs are good" and "Almost all Arabs are terrorists" common viewpoints.

Anonymous said...

What is it it with Hassidics and the 'dead-fish' handshakes?

Anonymous said...

Anon. said:

"The Admorim of Visnitz, Gur and Satmar have international gevirim, Belz has no rich chasidim so one Erev Pesach the Rebbe went beserk"

Belz has quite a few wealthy international supporters.
Ask any Belzer in America and they will give you the names.