Tuesday, October 8, 2013

The authentic "Chabad perspective" on הגאון הרב עובדי' יוסף זצ"ל























(photo credit: Walla News)

Such was the request made to me. "Give us the authentic Chabad perspective on Harav Ovadia Yosef." What an undeserved honor! Who am I to speak in the name of Chabad? Not to speak ill of שוכני עפר, but it's a tricky question. It's also not a question that gets a straight answer throughout the ages. ROY's opinion changed on many issues, some of them concerning Chabad, and some issues that Chabad sees as "their own," such as "Land for Peace." Some opinions changed due to political reasons, such as whether or not his Shas party stays in the Government and continues to enjoy those perks. And some changed maybe because he was having a bad day... Many Chabad'niks will never forgive him for allowing the Oslo accords to pass; without him there would be no Oslo, were his Shas party leave the coalition the Government would fall and Rabin would not have his way. Yes, Aryeh Deri vehemently denies that too, but, he'll deny his name is Aryeh Deri if the situation calls for it. Even many who have forgiven him still distrust Shas and are afraid that given another chance they'd do it again - in a heartbeat! Some will never forgive him because of disparaging remarks he made in the past, which he also seemed to regret... I guess you might say that a Lubavitcher's opinion is in line with his general personality. If he's the forgiving type he'll forgive ROY as well, and if not - not. After all, he didn't make it his life's mission to knock Chabad and the Rebbe every chance he got. So, in short: We all base our opinions of others on what we like and how we think! Having said that, his knowledge of Torah is beyond dispute. His התמדה is beyond dispute. He built a network of Yeshivos and schools that were מחזיר עטרה ליושנה - to a degree. Living a long life is always beneficial. It's all good. זאל ער האבען א ליכטיג'ן גן עדן. ער האט גאר אסאך געשוויצט פאר'ן אייבערשטענ'ס וועגן.

So that leaves us with two general sorts of people who did not attend the levaya: 1) The Kanoyi from Meah Shearim, or from anywhere, or the Brisker, to whom all Chief Rabbis - anybody who doesn't follow the shittah - is treyf chazir. No matter how old they are, how many seforim they wrote, and how many millions attended. The fact that he lead a second class group of people doesn't help either. 2) The Chazon Ish'nik, who is upset that ROY did not give the CI the proper respect, which is to be mevatel his daas. OK, so maybe that's an understatement, maybe he was downright disrespectful to the CI, just like he was to any Ashkenazi, including the holy רמ"א. But that was years ago, he learned not to do that. As much. The Steipler referred to him by his first name, without as much as a "Reb," or "Rav," and his son Reb Chaim did NOT attend the levaya, although they say he wasn't feeling well.

חבל מאוד that his true successor - and then some - his בכור HaRav Yaakov Yosef predeceased him. He had his father's ידיעות התורה yet was not swayed by money or power. He served as an MK but sat there learning... He left the Knesset because of the time being wasted, as well as the corruption. And he also would not be מבטל his דעת to his father, so for 20+ years he was PNG in that house. Rabi Yaakov Yosef would've been the perfect "successor." Now it'll be chaos there, chalilah. Having said that, I am NOT the official Chabad spokesman, so you're all most welcome to disagree.

55 comments:

Yanover said...

He was a very interesting gadol to say the least.

Shmuel said...

Many Lubavithchers whose opinions and perspective on any given topic are formulated by the manner in which the Rebbe referred (or refrained from referring) to the matter regard ROY in the following vein:
On one hand he is "tofes makom", as the Rebbe clearly refers to his responsa in LS Vol. 33 p. 95 fn. 3
See here

On the other hand, his presence is reduced to a single footnote in LS.

Same can be said on (the Lubavitch sentiment towards) R' Nachman's Likuttei Moharan, as it also scores a single mention (LS Vol. 4 p. 1207 fn. 27).

Typical Chabad said...

Nu, Avade RYY receives all respect.
He was anti hachzoras shtochim, pro chabad, and probably supported them in anything that was opposed to his fathers opinions.
So farshteyt zich that he was the natural yoiresh.
Say Chabad and you deserve everything.

dovy in j said...

wasn't RYY behind the whole Emanuel fiasco?

RZW said...

Rav Josef Photographic Memory

http://1daastorah.blogspot.com/2013/10/bdh-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-ztl.html?showComment=1381353090657#c5289429562265032279

Yakov Adrai said...

Shmuel
That Heora in LS has a story behind it,
The Rebbe has put in the footnote his sefer. the editorial staff deleted it, and printed a early print Friday morning, obviously the felt some animosity on Reb Ovadia.
The Rebbe realized it and scolded them to reprint it before shabos with his name in the foot note.

Yakov Adrai said...

Typical chabad
I guess that you and your buddies respect people that disrespect you, and you beat up the guys that do respect you.
Just Chabad chasidim are oddballs

Yakov Adrai said...

Hirshel
Maran Reb Ovadia was on the wrong side of the Chazon Ish on too many issues,
First and foremost he was pro Heter Mechira, then he was very strong for reb chaim Nueh shiurim vs, the CI.
He was a very friendly with reb chaim when they lived in Meah Sherim.
But from reading his big sefer Yalkut Yosef on the heter mechira I never saw some disrespect on the CI, he is discussing it very halachicaly and historically.

kablu daati said...

you forget to mention that the rebbe was really upset that he ended lifetime rabbonus fo rthe chief rabbi.
al pi hashmuah he was the only other person besides shimon peres that the rebbe refused to meet.
he also disrespected other sefardishe poskim like the ben ish chai

kablu daati said...

the version of the LS story the way i heard it was the editorial staff put it in hoping the rebbe would delete it, when the rebbe didn't they took it themselves and the rebbe made them put it back.

Yakov Adrai said...

Hirshel
the Briskers could not attend, for too many reasons.
The Griz, never went to a sefardic Levaye, so they have no mesorah how to act...
Also he was no talmid chochem at all,since it was too much Bekius ...

dovy in j said...

RYY actually signed a "psak din" that the LR is Moshiach. Of course he would be "the perfect succesor and then some" of his father.

http://beismoshiachmagazine.org/storage/misc/psak_large.pdf

Anonymous said...

he was a tzioni just like chabad. they should get along.

Rehov slonim 11 said...

Rav moshe weber זצל told me the rebbi refused to meet rabbi OY was because of מי היהודי.

Rehov slonim 11 said...

I heard ROY say on the chazon ish , מסכן he doesn't have books

Rehov slonim 11 said...

He said on rav mordchai eliyahu ,is he a rabbi בכלל . This is also printed in חזון עבדיה.

Rehov slonim 11 said...

I heard roy say ponovich... They learn פילפולים therefore they are בילבולים... Wow everyone laughed at yasdin

Rehov slonim 11 said...

Regarding ברסלב , rav shlom ber volpe writes the rebbi told him he is a rebbi nachman einachel

Rehov slonim 11 said...

I heard him say the ashkanazi women wear sheatels because they are stronger than their husbands.

Rehov slonim 11 said...

I heard him say there are only 2 times for the end of שבת , 18 minutes and רבנו תם

Rehov slonim 11 said...

When ROY was מתיר the oslo accords he included a proof quoting the satmar rebbi that anyways it is forbidden to have a מדינה.

Rehov slonim 11 said...

One of the reasons why ציצית must be worn inside ( which i won't qoute here) braught a strong protest from rav benyamin zilber זצ׳ל. He afters deleted this . ( kol sinai)

יתמו חטאים said...

and lets not forget his speech in 1990 against the rebbe, following shachs rant at that time.
see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRg0HZGeeBY

JS said...

Hirshel, Not everything needs to be said. Just because you were asked for your perspective doesn't mean you have to answer.

pitputim said...

Goodness, it's pretty simple. Being a Chief Rabbi means being part of the institution of the State (of Israel) and the Rebbe זי’’ע was against anyone supporting formal governmental structures prior to the Moshiach, especially when it came to Rabbonus.

The Rav ז’ל was against the concept of a Chief Rabbinate as well.

Apart from that, probably nobody had the Seforim that R' Ovadya quoted from anyway, and most were the Mesora from the Beis Yosef.

pini said...

A breath of fresh air while the festival is going strong on Hakablan St. and the web

Whatever said...


With all due respect to Rabbi Yosef Sr, any "Gadol" who's obit includes the horrible nasty things he said about everyone from Goyim to non-religious Jews to fellow Talmidei Chachomim is not a gadol in my book. This man had a mean streak and was pronce to saying things that any true Ish Gadol would never say. Lets call it how it is, folks. A learned man but far from ranks of the great men of the generation.

Yakov Adrai said...

Pitputim
"Goodness, it's pretty simple. Being a Chief Rabbi means being part of the institution of the State (of Israel) and the Rebbe זי’’ע was against anyone supporting formal governmental structures prior to the Moshiach,"
Which Rebbe are you talking about?

Ohel torah said...

He said the only other person that the Rebbe refused to meet???? The list has many, shlomo carlebach at its head. I heard this from a first hand account.

Y meir said...

Ohel... שקרן there is a famous picture of the rebbi sitting next to reb shlomo at a fabringin ... Reb shlomo tells many stories of שיחות he had with the rebbi

Y meir said...

A few years ago an apikorus rosh yeshiva yermiahu cohen of צפת blaspemed rebbi nachman of breslov. The next wek r OY invited him to give the warm drasha at his motzi shAbas class
עיין שות דברי חיים י ד חלק ב סימן ק״ה why he is an apikorus

Shnie dinim said...

Y mier

Ohel is no liar
its before and then after

Emes Lamitoi said...

the Rebbe had a issue with Rav Ovadia on the succession process,
Rav Nissim was Rishon Letzion, and the state decided to make votes every decade, the Rebbe did not like the voting process, too much state involved in rabunas, and it not a Kovad to retire a rav in his hey day....
But did not Chas Vesholem hold a grudge for years....he send some halachic questions to Rav Ovadia...

Ohel torah said...

Correct. That famous picture is from a farbrengining of 24 teves 5712. Rav Meyer ashkenazi was there as well. That was before shlomo went off.
many attempted to speak to the Rebbe on his behalf, yet the Rebbe was not willing to listen.

Anonymous said...

If I remember correctly, the Rebbe wrote on the sicha, that this is not a discussion in Halacha, for the discussion in Halacha see yechave da'ss and the seforim listed there in the footnotes.

The editors at the va'ad thought that the Rebbe meant for them to say, for halachik discussion see ... and then list the seforim listed in the footnotes.

The Rebbe was obviously upset.

Anonymous said...

It's about time they got his Monster Mr. Mendel Epstein YS"V. This is indeed Great News!!! May we ALL share in this Simcha together. Mazel Tov! On Mendel Epstein, is said "Shem Reshoim Yirkav Bekorov". May he rot in Hell. Now Moshiach can already come.

Hey don't forget to hang them all on a tree on Ocean Parkway on a nice sunny day.

dovy in j said...

sounds like you were one of mendel's victims. did he use the cattle prod on you?

Get said...

Anon
Were you ever beaten by his goons?
how many years did you hostage your wife from a Get?

kablu daati said...

maybe there are a few more however not that many. you cant bring carelbach as an example for he went against was he was told to do, that's allot worse then ROY and peres

kablu daati said...

i believe the rebbe said the chief rabbinate is just like רב מטעם

kablu daati said...

what does PNG stand for?

shmilu said...

interesting that nothing of the crazy lubavitch yechi style has been witnessed, plus he had many more followers, makes the nosi hadeir thingy, a lubavitcher hamtso'eh, btw very suspect

Arye Eddas said...

Shmilu
Dont worry they are starting already, with the empty chair and white tablecloth thingy

Superintendant Chalmers said...

Arye Eddas,
Has anyone claimed that Maran zt"l didn't die? Has anyone claimed that he still comes to shul and makes kiddush? Your comparison is a joke.

Arye Eddas said...

chalmers
its still in development...

Ben Eliezer said...

= Persona Non Grata

Anonymous said...

Approximately a million individuals came to show kavod towards the Rav Yosef Zt"l. The numbers represent the love and respect felt by the masses. Sefardish, Litvish, and Chassidish Rabbonim were maspid and are still being maspid in Yeshivas around the world. The levaya was reported as the largest in recorded history. Rav Yosef Zt"l was was clearly fluent in all chelakim of Torah- Sifrei Sfard and Sifrei Ashkenaz and Sifrei Lita (including Brisker Torah) and Sifrei Chassidus- he cites them all throughout his Seforim. Anyone who sees (in his earliest seforim) the brilliant amount of Torah he knew even as a youngster, is bound to be humbled.

There's one point that everyone could accept- all are dwarfed by the amount of Torah Rav Yosef Zt"l knew. So perhaps, everyone could try to strive to learn a little more to reach a little closer to his brilliant mastery of the Torah.

Rehov slonim 11 said...

The rebbi refused to see his old freind and talmid for many years... Reb shlomo carlebach... I don't beleive it

Rehov slonim 11 said...

The rebbi was a mentch before he was a צדיק

Rehov slonim 11 said...

The rebbi held most strongly the falashas ,need gerut along with all gedolie yisroel until the chief rabbi roy permitted them... Chabad still surres because they don't let them in their schools..

Rehov slonim 11 said...

Heart /liver transplants are אסור by all גדולי הדור... Except for ROJ...

shoyn said...

http://shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=66721

Moishe said...

Ohel, youre wrong. I heard firsthand from Rabbi Klein (one of the Rebbe's mazkirim) that the whole feud is bogus. The Rebbe had yichidusin with him and was mekarev him by farbrengins even after Reb Shloimeh started his own thing.

Ohel torah said...

Moshe, I don't know when you asked Reb Binyomin, but I am willing to garuntee you that he didn't tell you that, if he was in the right state of mind. He is a letz, but he didn't tell you that.

Anonymous said...

Levaya of Rav Ovadiah Yosef a Siyum HaShas