I'm not fully sure, but1) 'Stop' means a punctuation mark, as is the norm in telegrams.2)Chasna d'bei Nesia which is in acronym form here - is it definitely referring to the Rebbe, or possibly to the Rashag?
that's NOT what I was asking about, BE...
This telegram was written in Kobe, not Shanghai. Most of the oilam stayed for another 4 years in China after Kobe. So its not strange at all that R' Aaron z"l was unable to help them out at that time. Although I'm sure you have your conspiracy theories.
to Kobe, you meanwhat conspiracy theories are you talking about? These 9 bochurim left in '41 to Montreal.
Rav Aaron also came here in '41 even though most of his oilam remained. So I'm not sure what he means "refuses", as it would seem that it wasn't so simple at that time to "intervene". But I believe you have another take on this as I vaguely remember from a previous thread.
thers a good graphic artist who knows how to use photoshop really well, whos really bored.Good enough Tzig?
maybe i can suggest the following (based on what it says in the following pages of the tshureh):the bochrim werent allowed to STEP FOOT in the u.s. and were told not to leave the train that took them from san francisco to chicago and from chicago to montreal. its possible that had RAK wanted, he would be able to intervene on their behalf, so that they should at least be able to see the frierdiker rebbe. but again, this is only a hashoroh bealmaoh.just by the way: from new documents that i saw lately is mashma, that it wasnt so much RAK that refused funds to the temimim, as it was kalmonovitz, and - surprisingly - not as much kalmanovitz as it was reb chaim shmuelevitz, who was in shanghai at the time and who absolutely refused any help to the temimim. this piece of information was a chidush to me. please comment if you have any more information about RCS in shanghai.
I had heard the opposite, that RCS was the one that disobeyed orders
only in the end of shvat 5705 (!) did reb chaim ask RAK to include the temimim, seeing their tzoros and yesurim they had to go through, which at that time was mamash crazy. but before that (meaning from 5601 until 5705) he barely gave, and when he did, it was always with bizyonos and betzimtzum godol. לחביבותא דמילתא i'll add this: בתחילת ינואר 1944 החליט וועד ההצלה" רשמית שמכאן ואילך יתמסר במאמציו להצלת כולהיהודים, בלי הבדל בין דתיים לשאינם דתיים, ובלי הבדל בין המשתייכים לארגונים שונים. ההחלטה נתקבלה כאשר עמדו הרבנים על גודל האסון שפקד את יהדות אירופה."thats from an article about the vaad hatzoloh from yad vashem. http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%201610.pdf
shimelethis is very damaging for all the arguments of RMD Wiessmandel, against all the non religious organizations who did not contribute for his multiple rescue plans.Did the RAK Vaad Hatzolah, not select whose blood is more important to be saved?
Anonymous שימעל'ה דז'י said...only in the end of shvat 5705 (!) did reb chaim ask RAK to include the temimim, seeing their tzoros and yesurim they had to go through, which at that time was mamash crazy. but before that (meaning from 5601 until 5705) he barely gave, and when he did, it was always with bizyonos and betzimtzum godol. "I heard from my father numerous times punkt farkert, how RCS went out of his way to help the tmimim, and he was handcuffed by ....
Shmiel - please clue us in as to the nature of these "new documents", and if possible a scan or link. Anyone aware of what were the motives of the aforementioned gedolim?
I find the RCS story weird. He even later had ayechidus with the rRebbe. Which was arranged by reb Chaim meir bukiet, a talmid in shanghai.
I heard that RCS would sneak food to YTTL making sure that no one knew because he was afraid of RAK.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IC1swogp6gc/Se3pZ37QnjI/AAAAAAAADaM/bqSnx9OjsCI/s1600/shanghai.jpgThis letter should clarify everything...
The question is, who is "Mr. Tov"? Is it a nickname for someone in the Joint or the like?BTW, Very interesting stuff in this link. Is this the famous Askan Kotlarsky from Chabad?
Tzig,You bring up issues that you know will cause nasty reactions,then you claim, "betmimus", that Chabad is being attacked.Kool aid that never wears off,eh?You and the Braun guy
This documented shocking yachas to chasidim (Chabad and Amshinov) is very revealing..This is a alte maise and it didn't start because of Moshiach Issues and the like..I hope it will be an eye opener to some people who are not yet totally brainwashed and know to accept painful truths..
"I hope it will be an eye opener to some people who are not yet totally brainwashed and know to accept painful truths."So, what do you want people who's eyes "have been opened" to do?Be mekabel malchus?
Hershey"So, what do you want people who's eyes "have been opened" to do?Be mekabel malchus?"Yes exactly,
At the same time as this was going on, how much money was being spent on saving the library in Warsaw and who was it that called RAK and others from vh mechalilei shaboss for fundraising and filling out certificates on Shabbos?
hershy and perspectives:I know it's difficult for you, but try staying on point. Please defend the vile and despicable act perpetrated by someone you call a gadol. You can't. Which is why you resort to your baseless attacks on others. Accepting that your gadol is an achzori would be mechayev you to reconsider everything you've been taught (aka brainwashed) since you were in diapers. That's a scary thought for someone as intellectually dishonest as you.
ein hanachtom mid al pitoy...you guys are pathetic....talk about champions of ahavasyisroel keilooh...but are the biggest mefitzeey of sinah and hate about something that happened or didn't happened 70 years ago..and this is a new hafotzah by someone who is from the head of lubavitch today at the chasusnah of his child he has to score points ....and never ask for the second side of story....the worse is that this comes from people who should ask themselves from top to bottom: what has ANYONE of them done to save jews from being murdered....past 41 we are not aware of anything....why haven't the anyone from top and from the gedeyley zikney hachassidim done anytig to by the thousand to save yidden??? instead of putting efforts and money and polotical connections to other things...stop blaming others for they did or didn't do and make your owncheshbon hanfesh....it i interesting that in the past decade when the goonsof llubab started to make this a campaign to open up the history of what happened in shnghai that a historian who was set to talk about the saving of the previous Rebbe criticizes that he found that no effort was placed in actually saving jews.....stop making yourself soemthing by briging hate amongst yidden...
See sefer Kisvei R Mendel Zaks (recently published)letters siman 20 regarding the politics in helping those stranded in Japan.
זאג שוין - וואס שרייבט רבי מענדיל?
He doesn't need to score points. He's just fine as is. And maybe his father was angry for 70 years why his brethren were singled out for persecution by RAK et al....
Perspective"how much money was being spent on saving the library in Warsaw"how much money?do you know the answer?
emess,Typical. Avoiding the issue. Please calm down for a moment and reread my previous comment. Your vexation is getting in the way of reasonable thinking (which I am magnanimously assuming you are capable of).
Emess"and never ask for the second side of story..."since when do people put the other side of the story, especially the person that was out to dump you...You think that the Wiessmandel family had a right to put out in year 2013 the derosha of Rab Michel Ber against the printing of the Shas?Does satmar ruv have the right to say that the Zionist caused the shoah?
Emess": what has ANYONE of them done to save jews from being murdered....past 41"Did you hear of a Jew by the name Reb Aron Rokeach....check out who was involved in saving him?Did you hear of a Jew by the name Reb Lazer Zusia Portigal....check out who was involved in saving him?
Emess"when the goonsof llubab"who are they?are they for hire?did they do the work for the Free Aguna Society, that were arrested by the feds?
EmessWhy don't you defend it like Man...RAK held a view that Chasidim are am aratzim and semi Kofrim,RAK had Ruach haKodesh that they will eventually be Meshichisten and they are doomed for death, a nickel should not be wasted on them.Admit it, don't be a coward...
and why wasn't he angry that no one in the lubab camp helped out his father and other hungry bochrim that they should not die?
Anon"and why wasn't he angry that no one in the lubab camp helped out his father and other hungry bochrim that they should not die?"is your question why the Save the Library funds were not spend on saving them?did I get your question correct?
but did Rav Aharon succeed in rescuing the Kletsk library or not? Does anyone know?
the question why any campaign, the highest whether save library or even local institutions but NO raising money and seinding to get food to the hungry dying bochurim?
in 5750 (l'erech) shaul shimon deutsch wrote a letter to the Rebbe asking to print a book about shanghai. the Rebbe answered, "l'eizeh toi'eles"when the bochurim came to the USA, they wanted to go public about the whole parsha with RAK & RAK and the FR told them not to. he sent them a letter after the war with this line,"yodaiti meihanaseh lochem al yidei havaad l'maan hatzolas soinei chassidim", and yet he told them to leave it and keep quiet about it.
The vaad hatzola was maligned and stymied by certain people. Do you know who?
I'm waiting for chabad to publish a book about the Rayatz's hatzola efforts for his chasidim and yiddin in general.
i see that nobody even read the lubav letters after the War.the taynes they haD were not against RAK.Almost 70 years after the facts , it is impossible to accept a one sided letter and story, for an objective person, that isBut, that does stop anybody
Tzig, as a lubavitcher I am asking you with the same loshon of the Rebbe: l'EIZE TOELES??Why are you being smarter that our Rebbe??Why are you mefarsem to the world something that will MARBE SINA! -from a Tshura pnimis that was given out by a private chasuna?THE REBBE DIDNT WANT THIS TO COME OUT!Did one non-lubavitcher comment here that Ata Yadadi - NOW he knows that the truth lies with chassidus? look at the comments..It only distances yidden from each other!! and maybe gives us a good feeling of natzchanus! - L'EIZE TOELES??Will you be able to get over yourself and take this post off?
breitefood for thought...
As another Lubavitcher --I agree with Breite Kuk 100%!Reb Tzig, in my opinion you make the same mistake over and over again. Rehashing old issues and for what purpose?!Build up yidden. Build up chassidus. Is this moisif shalom between yidden? What, are you settling scores?You really have to rethink the purpose and style of your blog. You are hardly the Heichel Menachem of the internet...
A five hundred page book is being published about the rescue activities of the Rayatz and machane yisroel. It will detail the millions of dollars raised and the thousands of people helped. If you have any material, please send it in.
"It will detail the millions of dollars raised and the thousands of people helped."Yet the yechiniks and their cohorts the so called "normal" continue the blood libel of lubavs "starving to death" in Shanghai.The rov of Shanghai was a lubavitcherWhat a crock the goat is
One lubavitcher bochur was niftar in Shanghai.His name was Chanowitz.He was a sickly boy back in Vilna already.A number of boys from the Mir died.Shaghai was full of refugees and various diseases.Lubavs, who always toot their horn, have been very quiet about their activities during the War, presumably because they did very little.Unless for some "reason" they have been very quiet.Yet in a book written by Mrs R Altein,Out of the Inferno, chronicling the herculean efforts of her father R'Yisroel Jacobson to save the Previous Rebbe, we see that they were able to do the almost impossible and get him and twenty other close members out.It also includes info of the attempts to get the library out of burning Warsaw.You would think that supporting their fellow yeshiva boys would be small potatoes,no?For some reason (tzig being on the p.r payroll of Lubavitch, or just for brownie points...) tzig as a glutton for punishment tries to bring these stories up again and again.Interesting that even Yankee Raichik who gave some letter and info to tzig decided that bringing up old one sided "history" is not appropriate.tzig, when will you get any seichel??
Additionally, lubavs, who have never even heard of R'Michoel Ber Weismandel are using his as ammo in their (un)holy war.So....the book that tzig used in the previous post was written by a grandson.Just to point out that R'Michoel Ber passed away in '57 when his kids were very young and they themselves would not have any first hand info, so the grandsons writing is probably no more reliable than an article in der blatt, der yid, kfar chabad etc, who's "history" is one sided and not reliable.Adiitionally,R'Michoel, a true odom godol, was tortured by survivors guilt and terrible anger after the terrible suffering he witnessed.To "use" him to objectively attack someone is a gutter tactic
but Timmy is as pure as the wind-driven snow... he has no prejudices
Remind me tzig...Did I say I have no prejudices??I must've forgotten where i said that.
you didn't have to... it pours forth with every line
u bring up from the dust bin of history nasty one sided stories and insinuations, but can't take the heat when like a boomerang history isw thrown back in your face.The War was a terrible time for the victims AND the survivors, AND for Jews in America who wanted to save but couldn't.With the 20/20 vision of hindsight to blame and attack others you"d better have a good case
and I did all this without writing a SINGLE W O R D in this post...
Any particular reason the book "out of the inferno" by Rachel altein, published by kehot was withdrawn from circulation?
withdrawn? says who?
A טיפה שרוחה like yourself should refrain from badmouthing tzadikei emes, because it only makes your nosi hador look bad.
and you should refrain from writing in Loshon Hakodesh because it reveals your עם הארצות
"and I did all this without writing a SINGLE W O R D in this post."Silly me.Just one big mistake,eh?You were just "naively" inquiring about it.Uhuh.And the letter that you published from Raichiks father?"Jus a li'l history lesson"?Even Yankee begged you to stop promoting the hate.Apparently you thrive on it
NU farmach sheyn!!Timmy and all the others cannot and will not accept the truths published here, it threatens their whole way they grew up and more (maybe even their shtele..)Close this up, please! Genug sheyn!L'EIZE TOIELES???
chabadnikwhat are you talking about?i see no challenges besides the fact that tzig a relative newcomer to lubavitch has been taught to hate. u r right in telling him to learn perek lamed beis in tanyatimmy
No one explained yet poshut pshat, Who is Mr Tov? What exactly occurred in THIS Telegram?(The story of not giving Chabad and Amshinov food is another topic)
Timmy"So....the book that tzig used in the previous post was written by a grandson."My friend, Printing a derosha from a Grandfather is not called "written"...he printed many more deroshas that were found lately..Mossad Harav Kook does not write the Ritva from Kesav Yad, they just publish it... do you get it..
Timmy"Additionally, lubavs, who have never even heard of R'Michoel Ber Weismandel are using his as ammo in their (un)holy war."Which Lubab put it on? Hirshel?Knowing Hishel from afar I can vouch you that he knows RMD Wiessmandel well....and he knows that RMD was many times by the FR in Austria and in the states, so don't make his so foreign from Lubavich
Timmy"Yet the yechiniks and their cohorts the so called "normal" continue the blood libel of lubavs "starving to death" in Shanghai.The rov of Shanghai was a lubavitcherWhat a crock the goat is"Can you explain this outburst? it seems like a yechi outburst..
Timmy"Lubavs, who always toot their horn,"VS.Satmar and aguda who are very quiet on their deeds???
The more I see the Timmys of the world coming out of the woodwork's, I feel that Hirshel is correct against people like Briete Kuk,to bring these bits of history to the light of the day
Nikolai"because it only makes your nosi hador look bad."I think that after the grand Hachtora delivered by Rav Boruch Mordechai Ezrachi that Rav Shtienman is the Godal Hadoir Beshem vomalchus, and the Godal hadoir accepted it with great humility...chabad should reconsider its Nosi Hadoir title...
Chabadnik"NU farmach sheyn!!Timmy and all the others cannot and will not accept the truths published here, it threatens their whole way they grew up and more (maybe even their shtele..)Close this up, please! Genug sheyn!L'EIZE TOIELES???"the Nuvi said that before Moshiach it will be Yisbareru VeYislabnu ... all the truth will get cleared out,lets clean out all the vestiges of hate by listening to all our brothers as Timmy, whats the symptom is exactly...
this morning's attack on Rav Steiman confirms a theory i have.some groups just don't know how to fight. satmar are well trained at fighting, they know where the fighting stops and the ahavas yisroel kicks begins. lubavitchers are so so, but they seem to know how to stop.bobov was never trained in fighting by RSH, so they are nasty beyond nasty to each other in the most horrible ways.and the litvaks are totally out of control, as today's incident shows.the language they use is just beyond belief, and IMHO it will take them years to recover from this mess.
Lozmiru may or may not be right, but this attack means little inmho.The guy is probably unhinged.Lone meshugoim cannot prove anything.yeah, shoulzon the mushches will probably claim all kinds of things, but he is a lying skunk
" satmar are well trained at fighting, they know where the fighting stops and the ahavas yisroel kicks begins. "no they don't.luckily not all sakmoirem are the fighters therefore there exists chesed, the fighters have no boundaries
Cute story from R'Nachman yosef Twersky about R'Meir Ashkenazy, ruv of shanghai, his father, and the first pidyon the Rebbe acceptedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYpQNOn3KrI
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