Thursday, November 27, 2014

How do these meeting minutes shtim with conventional Satmar wisdom re: what the Zionist leadership did and didn't do during WWII?























Yitzchak Gruenbaum, 1948

Minutes of Meeting May 25, 1944

I linked to the meeting minutes a few days ago but this deserves its own post

I have a hard time remembering all the rhetoric, but every Satmar kid knows the words "רק בדם תהיה לנו הארץ" which was said to have been said by Nathan Schwalbe, a low-level shnook in the Jewish Agency. The source was HaRav Michoel Ber Weissmandl in מן המצר. There is no other source. Which means that the Zionist leadership, David Ben-Gurion and friends, didn't care about the millions dying in Europe, since it would help them gain sympathy from the nations of the world and ultimately their coveted Jewish State. (Then there's the infamous Yitzchak Gruenbaum quote about a thousand Jews in Europe not being worth one cow in Palestine.) So therefore we need to oppose the מדינה. The problem is, that despite the fact that the Jewish Agency kept thousands and thousands of pages of minutes and other documents there is no mention of any such statement. But does the fact that there is no source for that statement keep thousands of otherwise semi-intelligent people from parroting it as the ultimate conspiracy? No. And if Schwalbe did say it, who is he anyway? From the minutes we see here it would seem that they acted pretty soon after the Nazis marched in to Hungary. We won't discuss whether or not the plan of giving trucks to Eichmann in exchange for Jews was a real and feasible one

Here's my predicament:

I'm not here to defend DBG or his buddies. Maybe if it was Begin I'd defend him. (just kidding) But what happens is that the other side, the zealots, start to believe the rhetoric, no matter the lack of sources or evidence. Not only do they believe it, but if YOU don't believe it you're a revisionist. You're somehow a traitor to the Jewish People. Read the Satmar Yiddish forums and you'll see the "כידוע האבען די ציונים געשטערט אז מ'זאל ראטעווען מיליאנען אידען און זענעם ערגער ווי כאמאס" discussions in abundance. Most of it based on R' Michoel Ber. It's not a question of if anymore. It's ידוע already. That would not be such a problem in and of itself, were it not for the fact that somehow wanting a strong Israel today is somehow dependent on what DBG did or didn't do some 70 years ago... or what Teddy Herzl had in mind over 100 years ago. Or the religious persuasion of TH's children. Or what Stephen Wise or Abba Hillel Silver did or didn't do. It almost sounds like those remind us every year what an awful country America is because of what Columbus did to the natives. It would be א האלבע צרה if al the quotes they attribute to them are true! But if they're the figment of somebody's imagination, am I required to believe it and act upon it? Am I missing something?
























Nathan Schwalbe Source: USHMM

67 comments:

Not a Harry said...

1. R' MBW if he said it, is more נאמן than a million pages of zionist transcripts.
2.I think that it was written by greenberg and he claimed afterwards that דם meant money.
3. the Satmar Rebbe RYT ZYA, wanted a strong zionist medina. he wanted all Jews to be safe.

Jabotinsky hanuvy said...

Forget the zionist pigs. Where was Hungarian jewry up until that point as polish jewry was being slaughtered?

Eating shtup gentz.

Saint Mary said...

Ever read 1984? Those offending quotes may have been excised.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

NAH

they published plenty of other damning stuff, why not this?

Shmilu said...

Heshy,
Off topic
Still needs to be addressed:
The menuvel, shem reshoim yirkov , shoulson, what was he doing at the kinnus dinner??? why was shapira, one of the more respected rabbunem in chabad seen in pic schmoozing with this scumbag?
I know that you feel uncomfortable about it, because you had to comment on it in bechadrei chareidim, claiming that between 70to ninty percent of the assembled have never heard of said menuvel.I don't how you know those numbers,besides divrei nevius.Whatever the case, the apearance of such a snake, in a respected seat at the dinner is a SHANDA.SHANDA.
I know that his son has money and maybe give shapira in miami and that makes it more of a shanda.
Heshy, ask yourself this:If such a menivel was tolerated, seen by dinners, (and yes, we saw pics of the neveilah celebrating the barmitzva of an eynikel in 770!)at other frimmeh kreizens occasions what would you say???
Where is some honesty???

Anonymous said...

To Jabotinsky
the same place you are when jews are slaughtered in har nof

Lazer Epstien said...

What a Harry
Did Rav Wiessmandel have agents sitting in the zionist office, He heard rumors like me and you, thats it....
why are the kanoim not thanking the Zionists as Gizi Fleischmann and Kraus from the Mizrachi, that were involved in the Hatzolah?

Berl said...

baked stuff

I am surprised that lubavitchers have not created proof that RMM was involved in Hatzula while working in the Williamburg navy yard

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Shmilu

1) I have no idea who invited him or why he was there

2) I used to see him davening in plenty of shuls in BP, like by R Menashe Klein and Felder's, nobody yelled at him or threw him out

3) why is he a bigger menuval than the publisher of Der Yid in the 80s and 90s who was פוער פיו נגד קדושי עליון שליט"א ונ"ע every single week! And he was and is still considered a שיינע איד!

Lazer Epstien said...

Anon
"To Jabotinsky
the same place you are when jews are slaughtered in har nof"
Jabotinskies people are avoiding every day 100"s of massacre like Har Noif, obviously with chasdie hashem

Lazer epstien said...

Hirshel
") why is he a bigger menuval than the publisher of Der Yid in the 80s and 90s who was פוער פיו נגד קדושי עליון שליט"א ונ"ע every single week! And he was and is still considered a שיינע איד!"
Gut gezugt....
officially the der yid was bought by naive rabonim as the Krasner etc...to fight the apikorsim ... very quickly it ended up as a trash basket against all gedolai yisroel who did not dance to the satmar drum. After 1979 it was used to batter up their own brethren, the Bnai yoel who were all the Rebetzins kitchen guys, and now its being used against Satmar kehila but from the aronim...

Not a Harry said...

Mrs Fleishmans heroism is well documented and celebrated.

Lazer Epstien said...

Anon
Jabotinsky people at work
הותר לפרסום כי בפעילות השב"כ בסיוע צה"ל וכמובן בסייעתא דשמייא, נחשפה חוליית טרור מסוכנת של חמאס, שחבריה עברו הכשרה ברצועת עזה, אליה חדרו באמצעות מנהרות - וגם בירדן, טורקיה וסוריה.

במסגרת החקירות, נעצרו עד כה למעלה מ-30 פעילים ואותרו מטעני נפץ, תחמושת רבה ורובי M16.

מי שמימן וכיוון את המחבלים הייתה המפקדה הראשית של חמאס שתקעה לאחרונה יתד באיסטנבול שבטורקיה.

המחבלים תכננו לבצע פיגועים באצטדיון טדי וברכבת הקלה בבירה, חטיפות אזרחים וחיילים ביהודה ושומרון ובחו"ל, חדירות ליישובים ופיגועי ירי. בנוסף, הם ניסו לגייס אזרחים ירדנים במטרה שהללו יבצעו פיגועי חדירה לישראל.

חברי החוליה אחראים להנחת מטענים שהתפוצצו בצומת רחלים ובצומת ג'ית שבשומרון ב-31 אוגוסט 2014. בשני המקרים לא היו נפגעים ב"ה. המטענים הופעלו באמצעות טיימר במרווח זמנים כדי לפגוע גם בכוחות המגיעים לסייע.

ה' בכסלו תשע"ה

Lazer Epstien said...

Not a Harry
correct, but why are words of 1 zionist operator being trumped up on the movement, while the works of the other are being minimized.
Rav Weissmandel is accusing many orthodox movement and people for inaction, why is it not trumped up??

shmilu said...

Heshy,
Please.We need some honesty,k?
A)Coming into shul is very different than being a GUEST at a dinner.
Most regular, decent people without explicit permission and invitations would be barred from enteringthe Kinnus dinner.The neveila was NOT ie, he was an invited guest, who schmoozed with rabbonim and shluchim.
B)He is a lying scumbag that shakes people down for money,he makes up terrible stories and blackmails people.Der Yid, that I"m no fan of never blackmailed people or made up terrible stories or mocked people because their kids were crazy etc,etc.Der Yid was disrespectful.True.
If you don't see the difference you are either blinded by the fact that he is a Lubavitcher and uch un vey for such a "supporter" or you are not being honest.For me the proof in the pudding is your need to make up a number of how few people at the dinner know the scumbag, to show me that you know full well, that a lowlife like shoulson has never, ever been supported by ANY kehilla (besides for your kehilla, that is).
Yes, some people left yiddishkait and then wrote nasty things, but we have never, ever had a supposed frum person, a hoilech rochil, baal loshon horah and shakran, and (scumbag in his personal life as has been attested in a book that you know about).

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

a) he wasn't a guest of honor, he was one of S I X T H O U S A N D guests

b) I agree about him being a lying scumbag, which is why I never quote him or link to him, no matter how true the story. And there have been PLENTY of opportunities. I'm not here to excuse his being invited or anything. It bothered me to see him there too. He did grow up in a Chabad/Yerushalmi family, although he learned in Litvishe Yeshivos. So it's not like they invite him out of the blue. The fact that his son is a supporter of Lubavitch - as well as people lke the Masgiach RMW - is probably what got him an invite. Any zhlob can be invited by anybody, pay the fee and go. He's not somebody special there. He's not "supported" by Lubavitch either, although some Lubavitchers like what he does, simply because they're tired of being attacked and laughed at in the media.

Anonymous said...

לא לחנם הלך הזרזיר אצל העורב

Shmilu said...

Heshy,
Firstly, I feel some progress, which i"ll mention later on.

A)The neveila was actually not one of six thousand guests, but one of a thousand or so, since the vast majority of the dinner partakers are Chabad Shluchim and Chabad activists and dignitaries.Its not so easy to be by the dinner.
B) "Some Lubavitchers like what he does, simply because they're tired of being attacked and laughed at in the media." .This is indeed true and very troubling.A Lubavitcher who can like what this oomentsch does, shows that he is first and foremost a part member, then a Yid.Hopefully the ones who like what he does are not in any leadership or rabbinic roles.

Since this post of yours is about busting MYTHS maybe for the sake
of honesty you could tell me where Chabad is "attacked and laughed at in the media"?
It's a myth that every Chabdnik has to believe in apparently.
Firstly Chabad have always being media savvy and gave as good and better than they got.The Kfar Chabad mag in it's earlier days did what you accused Der Yid of doing.In America, they had their own voice in the Algemeneir Journal.So while years ago, Chabad got some flack from the like of The Israeli Yated Neeman, they gave back just as good and today and for years Chabad gets very positive coverage, despite the Meshichist albatross.
Lastly going back to the first point where i felt there had been progress.You admitted that a scoundrel like Shoulson should not be anywhere close to any Chabad gathering.Good.Next step is informing the guys who run the event to disinvite this scoundrel from any other Chabad event, lest someone feel that Chabad actually agrees with such a scoundrel.
Unfortunately, with such a lowlife it's very difficult to make peace in the Jewish World because people like this bottom feed off machloikes and , were there to be peace he becomes a nobody, so he is always busy stoking wars.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

A) it's VERY easy to be by the dinner, provided you reserve early enough

B) Lubavitchers are far from the only ones that enjoy his writing, as incomprehensible as it is. Who do you think sends him material? Lubavitchers? Hardly.

What I mean to say is that he fights with their perceived enemies; Satmar and the Litvaks.

dovy j said...

rv weismandel did not "hear rumors". he personally received the correspondence from schwalbe at least.
i don't have a copy of perfidy in front of me but i'm pretty sure hecht has the same quote from gruenbaum, and i'm pretty sure his source wasn't rav mbw.
even if the cow quote is "only" rav mbw, this quote is a fact;
"I will not demand that the Jewish Agency allocate a sum of 300,000 or 100,000 pounds sterling to help European Jewry. And I think that whoever demands such things is performing an anti-Zionist act."
During an early 1943 discussion suggesting allocation of some “Zionist money” for rescue during the Holocaust:
Tom Segev, The Seventh Million ISBN 978-0805066609.
and this one, also quoted by segev
"I think it is necessary to state here – Zionism is above everything."

in the diary of joel brandt, he discusses how he was arrested in turkey at the behest of sharet (who was working for dbg) in order to sabotage his efforts to bribe the nazis i.e. the jews in hungary

from wikiquote:
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
Attributed to Ben-Gurion (pre-War 1939) by Martin Gilbert in "Israel was everything" in The New York Times (21 June 1987)

nat a harry said...

greenbaum voted against th proposal.

joel brand said...

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-056-01.html

nitrer said...

Hershel
Rmbw writes that he saw the letter himself
and you believe some technocrat who created these minute to defame Rmbw who was a godel batorah and acted with mesires nefesh in the true meaning of the word

not a harry said...

these minutes mean nothing because they double crossed joel brand anyways.

Reb Hersh said...

Anybody can be invited to the dinner and you really have to know only one other person to get in. And you are NOT vetted in any way.

Believe me, I know this.


They probably never realized that there would be a need for this.

shmilu said...

Look, you all maybe right and nobody vetted the scoundrel and one shliach that the son supports may have invited him.Maybe.Though he appears to be pretty chummy in the pics with Shapiro,lubavitch rosh yeshiva in Miami.
Whatever the case, Chabad have to denounce and disinvite this bottom feeder, because the only support he has is from the lubavith community.if he was kicked out of everywhere and treaTED like the pariah he is, he may stop

Lazer Epstien said...

Dovy NJ
"rv weismandel did not "hear rumors". he personally received the correspondence from schwalbe at least."
Kevodoi Bimkolmoi Munach but,Rav Wiessmandel the genius had no proof for too much, its all recollection after a horrible war....he could not use it in a Biesdin and lehavdil in court,

Lazer epstien said...

Dovy in NJ
You can quote all sensationalists, Hecht and Segev (I read Segevs book full of half baked goods)till tomorrow.
To accuse people you need hard facts ..period.
since we are at this junction, can you explain me, what was so bad with their view?
They had a view that Judaism or Jewish people had no future in jewish blood soaked Europe. They were secular Jews, knew history quite well, and were good architects how to build a nation, there conclusion was, that saving a Jew in Europe, is a waste of hard currency. The European will kill anyways sooner or later.
Did Not all Jews run away from eastern Europe a year or 2 after the war ended? for fear of communism?? even from Belgium.
From a secular viewpoint they did the realistic move.
Was not a lot of currency and energy spend to save Belzer Ruv and his Brother?
Just read all the documents from correspondence from the whole universe.
Torah has priorities Of a talmid chochem, vs, a Jew, a Man vs a Woman, who is first on the list to be saved....
This secular guys had their priorities....
Maybe I can argue

Heat Detector said...

Shmilu
Why are you dedicating your life to the riddance of Chaim Shaulzohn?
did he embarrass you ever? your family?
Whats all this fervor?
I dont disagree with your opinion on shaulzohn... not to the full extent of physical ejecting...

Berl said...

Dovy in NJ said....

From a secular viewpoint they did the realistic move.

Torah has priorities Of a talmid chochem, vs, a Jew, a Man vs a Woman, who is first on the list to be saved....

These secular guys had their priorities....

Hershel are you secular ?lubvitch? or both ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Ich bin eine Jude...

Shmilu said...

"Why are you dedicating your life to the riddance of Chaim Shaulzohn?"

Where did you see me dedicating my life to it, though, I think that it's is of major importance to fight the menivel.

"did he embarrass you ever? your family?"
Never ever had anything to do with the lowlife.Don't know him now, never knew him before.

The reason any half decent human being should be against this lunatic/blackmail artist/menivel is because he is stoking terrible sinah and machloikes between yidden of all types towhomever pays more.He is the address when anybody wants to hurt and stab somebody in the back.When someone sees what the neveilah writes he can believe that am yisruel is on the lowest madreigah
To see a gemeineh mentsch like this at the Chabad kinnus dinner was like being punched in the solar plexus.
I do not know of any single frummeh yid or freieh who has caused such chilul Hashem.Shem reshoim yirkov.
I am sure that beyemei chazal,such a fellow would be begeder moridin

Shmilu said...

If R'Eli Teitelbaum zatsal was still around, Shoulson would not be by the Kinnus dinner or anywhere where ehrlicheh yidden attend.
He was the one that stopped the cretin selling his poison in stores.
אמר רבא: לא חרבה ירושלים אלא בשביל שפסקו ממנה אנשי אמנה
Chaval al deavdin, R'Eli, we miss you!

dovy j said...

berl,
i didn't say that. someone responding to my comment said that.

יושב ציון said...

In jerusalem last wek mayor barkat destroyed a shule i neve yakov... Barkat was supported by ger, belz and r s auerbach... כל הכדוד that shaulzon writes against these who put there interests ahead of yiddishkite...

Hatzofe said...

Shmilu
"I am sure that beyemei chazal,such a fellow would be begeder moridin"
there is a halacha today and there was Halacha in the time of Chazal....
please stop the heat and get some sources that he and the editors of the Der Yid for he last 5 decades are in the Geder of Moridin Veloi Malin.. your heat and cursings will get you no place..
Get the sources please..

Shmilu said...

Hatzofe
Yoshvei Tzion
And all your other names...

Look, I know your type.You and your chevreh are the people who ask "what's good for my group",in this case you are under the mistaken belief that שאַולזאָן שם רשעים ירקב is "good" for Lubavitch, so you don't give a hoot what happens to Yiddishkait.You selfishly and foolishly believe that the neveilah is "hitting" the "SAKMOIREM" and "SNAGS".
The reality is that when people hear and read the nonsense they feel that allfrimmeh yidden are terrible.

Please do NOT try and claim that he also does some good.Remember that this גאר אן אלטע טענה of the Romans "kol mah sheosinu bishvil yisruel".
Remember, also that during the Nazi regime the trains ran on time.

Chabad is being foolish by supporting this fellow, because he has and will turn on them when its kedai.
Uchedai bizoyon

hatzofe said...

shmilu
"Look, I know your type"
Its good that you know....
Are u sure he never embarrassed you or family

Shmilu said...

Hazofe,(and whatever other names you have)
You are unfortunately a terrible bore.I feel that discussing any issue with a yotz like you is an exercise in futility.That I should even have the need to "explain" why this individual is such a terrible lowlife shows what your moral fiber is made of and how little you have.
Just for the record I reiterate that neither I nor my family have ever had anything to do with him, good or bad.

Please, try not to drag the blog into the mud, because of people like yourself, some of the more intelligent posters had to leave

yankel said...

יושב ציון
Your facts are not true. Yes, he was supported by Ger. But Reb Shmuel Auerbach supported someone else. Some political pundits may claim that this support contributed to Barkat's win, which is laughable. Barkat was winning anyway and the candidate put up by the other political faction of Degel was just as bad for Charedim as Barkat. In any case, this is irrelevant to Barkat. The LH of Shaulson has got you too and you are the proof of his evil. Nobody likes him. Except when he says something that fits with somebody's personal bias. Suddenly he is believed.
P.S. He never wrote against anyone I care personally about. The opposite, he once wrote an article 'defending' my grandfather against some hitherto unknown misnagdim of his. Of course, the family never knew anyone took anything away from this grandfather, but Shaulson managed to stitch together a politic to fill his dirt page.

chusid101 said...

This document comes to show that you can not believe rumors. This is black and white that the Zionists had that famous Jewish heart and wanted to save Jews. They send Brand to negotiate. These are facts. Those who felt guilty for making the wrong decisions and then blame the Zionists should be called out.

chusid101 said...

I have no idea where Shaulson comes into the picture. On this post. Manners please.

Anonymous said...

I recently tested him by sending him two lies that made no sense at all. and guess what, the next day they were both posted.

Anonymous said...

To Blogger chusid101
what does black and white mean in Judaism ?
Is everything that's written in the black and white blog-sphere become fact?

Anonymous said...

Blogger Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
3) why is he a bigger menuval than the publisher of Der Yid in the 80s and 90s who was פוער פיו נגד קדושי עליון שליט"א ונ"ע every single week! And he was and is still considered a שיינע איד!

Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:13:00 PM


can you proof this????
do you have any one copy of der yid to back your hated claim???

chusid101 said...

Der yid was the mouthpiece for those who kept the motto Satmar uber alles anyone who disputed that was dehumanized made into a koifer poiker meen etc. ask the klosenburg Lubavitcher belzer even stolin. Thank g-d today they are busy destroying each other.
Even today you have got Menashe Phillip writing weekly on gedoei yisroel blaming the agudah for the har nof killings. The Blatt has no problem writing deragetory against Rav shteinman.
Satmars! It's time to do tshuva.

chusid101 said...

Dee upgerisener beheimeh.

chusid101 said...

Do you believe that it was Lee Harvey Oswald who killed Kennedy or you believe in conspiracy theories that he was killed by the mafia etc.
u will always find people coming up with conspiracy theories. Here u see those minutes u see that Jewish people have a heart aka the joint the Jewish people are good hearted no matter their affiliation. U cannot believe a book or two. Do your own research.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ANONYMOUS 1:19PM

המפורסמים אינם צריכים ראיה

chusid101 said...

It's not blogosphere. These are actual minutes that took place. In the book the unheeded cry by Fuchs, he brings a letter from Rav weissmandel r actually praising Kastner for his negotiations. Rav Weissmandels war with the Zionists came after the war. And there is a reason for it. It is not the place here to discuss it.

lozmirup said...

Rav Weissmandel was after the war an angry bitter man who was prone to saying things that in retrospect made little sense. This is no ch"v a knock on him, he went thru shiva meduros gehinnom and worse, and who are we ungeshtopte ice cream fressers to judge him.
The problem is the nk & satmar crowd uses him as a final authority on the holocaust to explain their krumme shitas.
For one example, he said that if the allied powers would have gone to hitler ym"sh and reasoned with him, ww2 and the holocaust wouldn't have happened. He alludes to some zionist conspiracy to make the war to get a state.
this is ludicrous, and any student of history will tell you about 1938, Sudetenland, Chamberlain who thought the same thing.

level headed chosid said...

I back hirshel on this last one. Satmars shito is very well known. If you don't agree with them, then you are a rosho and a koifer. The yid was doing it all the time and still does it today, but a bit more subtle than in the past.

Hatzofeh said...

shmilu
"Please, try not to drag the blog into the mud, "
who decides what is mud?
do you know personal the intelligent crowd? is there a board for that crowd? are you the chairman? how high is your IQ?

Der Nayis said...

, had the zionists been willing to shelve zionism for rescue the slaughter would have been tremendously smaller.

Der Nayis said...

To keep perspective, 4.5 million Jews were already dead at the time of this meeting. Ultra orthodox Hungarian Jews were still being refused entry certificates by these scoundrels.

chusid101 said...

Scoundrels? You're kidding. The ultra in Hungary not only didn't do a darn thing for the yishuv but they actively did everything possible to block and dissuade people from going to Erets yisroel. In the end they were gassed and burned.
The point if you didn't invest in a company you cannot take the dividends. The Zionist who worked for the yishuv were first choice. Farshteist??
Your anger should be directed towards those who didn't see the writing on the wall and after killed millions there were those who were busy fighting Zionism.

chusid101 said...

Hi this is not Satmar town here. Stop the nonsense instead bring evidence proof. Red tsi der zach.

dovy j said...

chusid 101,
the zionists blocked brand from his mission and had him imprisoned in turkey to stop his negotiations. They did not "send" him. have you ever even read his diary?

also where were their huge jewish hearts when they sank the altalena, when they stole the yemenite children and when they brutalized the yaldei tehran and yaldei baghdad. or did those things also never happen? maybe there are minutes of a meeting somewhere on line proving the altalena sinking was a hoax and ben gurion's huge jewish heart really wanted to welcome them with milk and cookies. maybe de'han was never really killed. maybe kastner was never really killed to silence him. can you please post the minutes from the meetings about those things? thanks.

Der Nayis said...

@falshe chosid
You are basically admitting that the zionist pigs were complicit in the slaughter and you have the gall to justify their mind-boggling behavior by blaming it on the anti zionism of the kedoshim! For shame. You have no soul.

moshe ber said...

reb Michael ber is as trustworthy as the geniza cherson! KAY?!

chusid101 said...

You are in conspiracy world. U have not got any evidence or proof for your stories which became part if your newly found religion Tsionim are the most evil people". You were raised to believe all the nonsense in order to deflect the shortcomings of our leaders and their wrong decisions they made prior to the war.
If your grandparents would have followed those who preached of the love of Erets yisroel instead of making an hysteria religious war, they and their fellow yiden would not have gotten gassed and burned.
In order for the masses not to think and come to some conclusions you have a master plan, find dirt on your competition.

dovy j said...

chusid,
you are either a young teenager who hasn't read or researched much or you have serious issues. learn a little history. the altalena really happened. the yemenite kids really happened. the yaldei baghdad were real. the chofetz chaim loved eretz yisroel a lot more than weisman or nordau ever did (or perhaps you've never heard of nordau).

Argue on wheat reply on Barley said...

Dovy j
you did not reply, it is being discussed a blood libel from a Jew against a Jew..
what are u answering ??/ about the price of tea in china circa 1865

Der Nayis said...

You are an obvious ignoramus with an ax to grind against satmar.

chusid101 said...

The chofets Chaim was very excited when he heard about the Balfour declaration. So writes his son in sichos chofets Chaim. Also the the Gerer rebbe and the agudah voted for a medinah al pi Torah.
Altalena. Imagine if New Jersey decided to have its own army and weapons what do u think would happen. Use your imagination. That's the dilemma BG was faced with. And if u read and learned history u would know that Menachem Begin forbid his people to fight back. He even fired his general for not wanting to follow his orders.
Yemen children kidnaped this is a typical blood libel that has not been proven till today.
Yaldei Theran. It is a shame that in those days there were very few frume yiden in Israel they had no power those days to stop the shmad machine. They all perished in the ovens, instead of making Aliyah.
U have a lot of learning to detoxify yourself from all the hate and lies u were fed through the yid etc.

dovy j said...

chusid,
this will be my last reply to you because your brai obviously only works one way.
begin told his people to not fight back because He had a Jewish heart and didn't want to kill Jews. Ben Gurion had no such qualms.
i really would advise you to read a little more and learn a bit of history. just spewing childish rhetoric is unbecoming of a yeshiva boy (and I judge you to be about 15, so you're a yeshiva boy.)

Yosh55 said...

The last clause in the balfor decleration says its only valid if the arabs agree... Reb berl wein says the arabs should be dancinG in the streets...
Altelina.. Begin had already agreed to turn over the weapons .. Moshe dayan refused to fire... Then rabin stepped in... The rest is known...