Friday, April 20, 2007

Careful what you wish for....



There were calls recently for the disbanding of all Chassidic groups, and for a while I thought I agreed with him, but for very different reasons. "I say all Chasidic movements should be disbanded. They outlived it spiritual and practical purpose. This addiction could be cured," said TA last week, repeating the sentiments he's felt for a while now. This comment was brought on by a story about the fighting that continues between Srool and Mendel Hager, the 2 sons of the Vizhnitzer Rebbe of Bnei Beraq. I'm not sure why he can't see what all others see in this little battle; that is a simple power struggle, no different than a wrestle for control of a major corporation, which Vizhnitz is, with all of its institutions. I thought I agreed because I felt that all groups today are all about money and power, but I then saw that he meant something completely different.

In the eyes of someone who sees Chassidic groups as nothing more than clubs for men to participate in and women to watch, then there's really no point in attaching a name like the Baal Shem Tov to your club, it brings nothing but shame to his holy name. Stop calling yourself a scion of a Chassidic dynasty. Name it something else and continue fighting, but don't drag the Besh"t through the mud just so you can have some entertainment, and your leaders power. You can do the like the Perushim in Yerushalayim, and wear Chassidic clothes and trappings. As a a matter of fact, most people would consider Chassidus to consist mostly of dress and a few Chumros, so those Jews of the Old Yishuv have nothing to feel bad about when it comes to those fields. - Then again, anybody with the minutest knowledge about anything that goes on in the Israeli and American "Yeshivos Kedoshos" knows that power struggles are by no means limited to Chassidic groups. The shame that certain Yeshivos have brought upon Charedi society, and the hypocrisy that's been uncovered makes petty little infighting in Chassidic groups look like child's play. -

However, if Chassidus is not just dress and a Poylishe Havooreh, but a Teyreh and a way of life, where Dibuk Chaverim is integral in keeping its members both spiritually and physically intact, then disbanding Chassidus, whatever that means, would have consquences beyond what anybody of us could imagine. I find it ironic that some of the people that call for the disbanding of Chassidus are the same ones that stand to benefit the most from what it has to offer. They complain about others not being there for them when they're the ones that remove themselves from society simply because they don't feel anybody is intelligent enough or smart enough to enter their little world. I can very much relate the last aspect; where you feel reluctant to allow others into your little world, but that would make me the problem, not the rest of the world, correct? So next time you see a few Jews sitting at a table saying LeChaim and some words of inspiration, why not pull up a chair and join them? You may not agree with everything they say, and you may not share the same opinions about certain sages of yesteryear, but you'll be amazed what a little sit-down can do to your spirits, it'll lift them straight up to the sky.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

I still think that the current structure of the groups may do more damage than good. So, while they may "make the trains run on time" - they are abusing and trapmeling integrity, virtue & truth, not to mention the spirit of the 'members."

Anonymous said...

"In the eyes of someone who sees Chassidic groups as nothing more than clubs for men to participate in and women to watch..."

I am by no means one of those who call for the 'disbanding of chassidus', but you've got to admit that while having all the ma'alos you list below that paragraph, most chassiduyos are indeed 'men clubs'. As a Lubavitcher woman who has recently had a lot of exposure to the chassidishe world, I find all the women talk about is recipes and school and what to buy for the new mechutanim. I know that's a narrow minded view on my part and there are many wordly chassidishe women as well as narrow minded lubavitch ones, but in general that has been my experience.
I don't find women talking about their Rebbe (their Husband's/Father's Rebbe?), learning his chiddushim, telling each other vertlach for chizuk. That to me means there is a men's club that mainly excludes women from all but Yom Kippur davening.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to finally hear a female perspective here.... That was not the jist of the post, but I guess it might as well be. That's why Circus Tent speaks to all segments of society, there's something for everybody here.

Frum women have been told and taught that their only mission in life is to cover their knees and elbows and keep the house clean, and it's sad, really it is. Even those in individual teaching capacities, who you would think know better since they've made teaching a career, seem to be propagating the same message, presumably on orders from their male superiors. Others take it too far, and become too open-minded, where their education interferes with their observance of Halochoh. I wish we can create the happy medium here, where we can stop dumbing down the women, and stop all that talk about clothes and shaitlech. Maybe that'll make the kids turn out better, since the mothers will have something to share with their kids whilst educating them.

Anonymous said...

as Yarma ruv says
He saw already the fight in Satmar,Vishnitz, Kluasenberg,Ponovitz
He can't wait to see what will happen when the Lubavitsh Rebbe will Pass away

Anonymous said...

Off topic, there is a blog of little Emunah, now shown to be of no Emes: Harry "interviews" blogger DovBear, ostensibly to "educate" his readers on who DovBear really is, and skips the most important question:

HM: Are you a plagiarist?

DB: Yes. No. I've apologized.

Okay, so Yona is thinking, there goes Hmmm nitpicking and attacking and accusing. Snag him.

This is a critical issue, not a side issue. It is utterly impossible to wade through the masses of information put out there every day by everyone - media, corporations, bloggers, government - and check the facts. At some point a relationship of trust is established.

DB broke that relationship of trust. Some didn't care. Some took him back. Personally, I might have continued taking him seriously if he closed his blog and started fresh, or more truthfully if he stopped altogether, maybe just commenting on others blogs for a while. I'm not completely sure, and its academic.

This is about Harry, though. Harry has just let us know that in the interest of a personal interest puff piece, he is willing to forgo sharing the most critical piece of information needed to judge a particular blogger. What does that say about his honesty at large?

Anonymous said...

HT-

Thank you for this post. It's healthy to be critical and honest; it's also important to be simple and straitforward as you have been here--providing a cool breeze.

So many people hurt "by the system" retreat (and understandably so)into a world they can create--but many times it seems their timing is too quick. "They hurt me, again...they don't understand.." And there's this back and forth reactionary battle instead of some simple strategic "tweaks" along the way.
So, they're certainly hurt and certainly misunderstood, but there are always a few Yidden at the table saying l'chaim and sometimes there's something to take from that--that can turn over worlds with a simple action--as we say in the sefira yehi ratzon-- the mitzvah brings not just a "sheffa" but a "Sheffa Rav"

A comment re: a prior comment--- i've heard complaints from women that they are tired of talking about sheitals, recepies, stroller types instead of interjecting the conversation with words of Torah, words from the Rebbe, etc....
This challenge exists as well across the mechitza....men may not be talking about sheitals and recepies but they also struggle to talk of Torah instead of other less-important conversations.

Anonymous said...

disgruntled ladies, to many men 'keeping you down'? if thats your theme, please exit the tent.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

N

we welcome people here, even if we may not agree with all of their opinions. Be nice.

Anonymous said...

''The shame that certain Yeshivos have brought upon Charedi society, and the hypocrisy that's been uncovered makes petty little infighting in Chassidic groups look like child's play. -''

I'm am the last one to condone any violence, but your statement above is not a factual one.The fighting amongst the chasidim is not petty at all, and you know it.Satmar, Klausenberg,Vishnitz, Bobov and the meshichist pogrom in 770 is not petty, not in any honest rational mans mind.You are a big kid, stop lying to prop your group up.
The fighting in Ponovizh in not petty and is a shandah,a cherpah and a busha.It is also an isolated incident.It happens to be that both the Litvacks and Lubavitch are generally non violent even amongst terrible disagreements.In the height of the machloikes with Lubavitch there was no violence from both sides.I think the new influence both in Ponovozh and Chabad have brought the penchant for violence with them.
For what it's worth, if I could do it over I would not choose to be on the chareidi/frum side, I don't see this violence in a regular Modern Young Israel.Loz mech oop mit frimkayt if this is what it brings

Anonymous said...

as the world changes its influence reaches unfortunately also inside the Chassidic world.

Today people (all of them) are mostly interested in money and more money. Money is our god, bar none. It has become as well the official idol of the Chassidim. While the men talk of money the women talk of money and sheitlach. We are a doir yosoim where not only has Gimel Tammuz affected us bechitzoinius it has affected us bepnimius. Gone is ideology. Gone is the will to know the truth and to fight for it. (there are some exception, few and far in between.)

The are no (real) mashpiim (for the most part) there are no leaders, period. It is a doir shel kelev -- the dogs -- kavyochoil the leaders, running upfront and looking back all the time to follow the shleppers behind.

The Yeshivois stink and in the world of Shlichus, it's survival to the fittest. It's a darn shame but that's the metzius and more and more people are coming to realize this.

We can sit back and lament or we can try to do something about it. If more people realize how desperate of a people we have become and there really isn't much of an answer to offer we come to that only real plausible solution and it is to pray for Moshiach with all the sincerity we can muster.

Anonymous said...

"disgruntled ladies, to many men 'keeping you down'? if thats your theme, please exit the tent..."

Many women are...
exiting the 'tent' of orthodoxy that is.
And flippant remarks like these just served to hasten the exodus from orthodoxy for many women, myself included. Though I consider that a good thing now :)

Just so you know.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Well, Chaya, if you're writing from the North American or European Continent you did exit the tent, seeing as you wrote on Shabbos. I'm sorry to hear that, and I'm sorry for N's remarks. He really didn't mean it.

Anonymous said...

to shliach

jews who leave with real amhinu that WAS נתקבל from the gedolhe hachsidus, the holy bal hatanyu and the geza of the holy tzAnser rebee ztz"l and all other true gedolhe hachsidos and gedole hatorha dont have major problens and the golden chain is going perfectly in the right direction

however there are problems for the lubvs

that after all these years of claiming that they know best the
inner workongs of hasem and still they tumbled so deeply that they selected an עגל הזהב היה לנו לאלוקים that thier rebbe came out from the queens cemetary and evolved into a half mosiach half god like the ,נוצרים רר"ל they have serious problem and i am afraid that their next generation will be
more similar to the נוצרים then
to the true עמך ישראל

מי יגלה עפר מעינך רבינו הקדוש בעל התניא!!!!!!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Then again, maybe you were writing from far away Australia....

Anonymous said...

HT: Someone asked: Didn't Baal Shem Tov stressed Ahavas Yisroel? Wasn't Chasidus meant to unite everyone? And what had happened? Were there such a severe pirud in Klal Yisroel before? What had happened to chasidim and totally horrible fights that they had between themselves? So what went wrong?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous of 1:57, a big yisher koiech for stopping the use of caps.Also your English is improving.So maybe we'll even see the day when you'll write something sensible and substantial?