A whole long article about campus Rabbis doing Kiruv, and not a word about Chabad?
It seems like they found some guy working on a Campus at UCLA and thought it a nice topic for an article about doing on College Campuses. Are you people there completely in the pockets of the Chabad haters now that you can totally print 5% of the actual story about outreach on College campuses? Is it all about winning over Yated readers now?
Do you people know that there are tens of Shluchim out there who struggle mightily with making ends meet, and who've made it their life's work to bring college students back to Yiddishkeit? They must fend for themselves, with very little of a pool from where to draw funds from, simply because college kids, unlike BaaleiBatim at conventional Chabad Houses, have no money to give, and leave after a few years. They do need to feed hundreds of students every week, often having more of a budget than some of their non-campus brethren, and serve as Rabbis and counselors for these kids.
I guess they don't really exist after all, at least not as far as "Torah Judaism" is concerned, correct?
48 comments:
Anybody reading this blog will see that in The Tzigs mind and many of the posters, Lubavitch is hated, not given any attention and blacklisted by many Jewish Orthodox publications.The list is to long ....
Well, actually according to the Tzig, why does everybody hate Lubavitch??
No reason I guess,eh?
Or maybe othe Jews are just nasty?
"Or maybe othe Jews are just nasty?"
A lightbulb goes off in one more persons head!
Tzig,
My kudos to you for your recent post, giving the benefit of doubt. You did the right and sensitive thing.
If there's any reason people are looking not favorably at Chabad these days the only ones to blame are the ones who run around suing everyone in site, to settle their differences. If there's anyone to blame for the catastrophe the Chabad movement is going in, it's the Shemtov, Krinsky Kotlarsky treo who have brought shame to the movement.
Their internal fights, external fights, lack of respect for Rabbonim and Din Torahs, their corrupt and totally lack of honest ways in dealing with people , their interest in power and money above all else.
Let me make it clear. The Rebbe offers us clear and concise ways to have a blessed life. As the Rebbe himself said "what more can I do". Chassidus in my belief is the only way to go through our confused existence.
Unfortunately the Golus has become a plague of thick darkness. Shluchim who claim to be the cream of the crop (with all the good that many do) have become immobilized by the lack of leadership and worse the corrupt example of divisiveness and a total lack of resolve to be interested in what the Rebbe instructed us and to follow his instructions.
Why post this here? Because no one is listening anywhere else.
Interesting,
Mishpacha didn't become yet chabad prpoganda! they're (chabad) gonna have to try harder!
The levaya for virginia tech professor they didn't do, but the krinsky PR macine was in full working order!
check out: http://sev.prnewswire.com/education/20070419/LATH11720042007-1.html
Worried about money on the campuses?
Just wondering!
Tzig, please reread tha article. Granted that Lubavitch is not covered enough, but they do mention the "mesiras nefesh" of shluchim on campus...
Wow!
So we, the non Lubabitcher Orthodox Jews are just nasty! So sayeth the Jew-loving-Lubab.
If that's true, than just keep away, don't brainwash frum people and send them to Boro Park as 'shliach li'inyonei frummeh yidden'
You want to be mekarev secular yidden, gezunterhait!
One could ask for the same reason why the kefar chabad doesnt make ant mention of aish hatorahs work?
You missed the point:
They want to promote kiruv by a segment of the population that until now has shown little interest in it.
By emphasizing how great chabad is at college kiruv, all this would do is supply a ready excuse for people not to be oiseyk in it:"oh, kiruv is a chabad obsession, not for me"
Firstly if what you say is accurate , Mishpocha deservs to be criticiized.Journalism should be objective and honest.
But you raise many issues in this comment that need to be examned carefully.. Let me enumerate some.
When Chabad writes of its college campus activities in its publications it too fails to mention other groups working on the campuses such as Hillel and Modern Orthodox campus rabbis that function at many large universities like Yale , Cornell and UCLA.I can never recall Chabad mentioning other Orthodox campus activists in any of their PR pieces even in passing.
I am also interested in knowing just how many full time shluchim there are on college campuses in the US today. Because of the reasons you cite I suspect that few Yungeleit in 770 are eager for these positions.They would rather compete for plum neighborhoods in La Jolle and Cambridege , MA
It should be noted that many non Orthodox and Modern orthodox campus rabbis have made fine careers in their jobs and are held in high prestige in the Jewish world even without a fund raising opportunity.Thus people like Rabbi Charles Scheer (Columbia), James Ponet (Yale), Ben Z. Gold (Harvard) , Feller (UCLA) Joe Pollack (BU) all are widely respected in the larger Jewish world and live off a salary that is probably a lot less than a succesful Chabad shliach pays himself. Perhaps if a yungerman were satisfied with an annual fixed salary akin to a high school teacher or even a college professor , fund raising would not be that necessary.
Most if not all Jewish college students come from well to do Jewish families and do not need Chabad's food or meals.Of course there are some exceptions as there are in every matter in this world. Chabad needs to feed thenm (and give them alchoholic beverages) in order to provide an incentive for their particiaption in Chabad activiites. Please do not make it appear as if feeding students on campus is a charitable activity akin to Tomchei shabbas or the work Mr. Stock was doing.
Finally if Chabad adopted a more cooperative stance regarding the Hillele chapters, I am certian some of the Chabad work would merit funding on the campus level. But the "go it alone" policy that now is the signature of much of Chabad work makes that impossible.
Shneour
Great post as usual.I'm surprised that he posted it, though.It's either party liners he''ll post or a comment so silly that it makes the non Lubvitcher or non party liner seem stupid.Very little room here for intelligent discussion.
you geniuses fail to realize one thing: Chabad reports on Chabad activities, plain and simple. If Mishpacha would come out and say that they report on everybody BUT Chabad, then I'd be perfectly ok with that, but they don't. They throw Chabad ah beindel every once in a while, presumably for ratings and readers, but ultimately they go back to their exclusive ways.
Ca. Shliach
tell me are you Meshuga LeOsoy Dovor? are Krinsky and Shemtov to blame for high gas prices too? How about all those mortgage defaults, maybe we can somehow pin this on them.....
Last time I checked Chabad didn't operate a funeral chapel, Mendel Seidenfeld did, I guess we should give him the credit for chrging untold thousands of dollars for the funeral?
Without Yossi Kranz the late professor would've have had an autopsy performed, and his body would sit for days without Shemirah. I guess that only counts when it's some Snaggy guy, right?
Tzig. You are correct in that Mishpocha is supposedly not a party organ and should be more objective.But if "these guys "can write about the struggle of Judaism against Stalin in the pre 1940 years and not mention Chabad , they can claim the earth is flat too.
But it still does not excuse the Chabad PR pieces for depicting the US as a waste land and "bemeyuchad " the campus , and the only frum people doing something are Chabad.Other groups should be mentioned even if just in passing.
On a a campus I am familiar with , there is an Orthodox rav from Israel (an Anglo) who knows how to learn and a vey caring non orthodox hillel rabbi.The so called Chabad rep there was busy having drinking parties with Jews and arelim and investing in Real estate . Now there is a new Chabad rabbi. Hopefully he will do better. But why the need for another Orthodox jewish org on campus, why not assist the rabbi already trying to instill some Judaism on campus ?
Chabad must enter a new phase that is to be willing to help already exisiting Jewish intiatives such as schools and other minsitries with manpower, know how and yes even money without any goal of taking these institutions over. I know its Messianic but is that not what Chabad is all about ?
it"s interesting to see that the lubvs feel so so insulted
they hv nobody to blame but them self
for many many years the lubvs have isolated themself
they never write in their sifrie chabad any divrei thora from other gedolhe hachsidos,as lbvs would have been the only one who are the true talmidie bal sem
especily they have to blame them self, bcs year after year they
proclaimed outlandish and border line mivtzoim that the sane
and normal world of chasidim and yesiva world did not want to jump into their sea of mesigas
to proof it look what their outlandish ideas finaly has born
a new עגל הזהב that they call now
rebee-mosiach-god, עבודה זרה ממש!!!
this is the reason that the true thora jewry does not want to have any שייכות with the lubvs bcs they started to lean towards a new self created religion that is more similiar to the נוצרים ר"ל then to the jewish אמונה
HERE Lets get the facts straight!!!!!!!!
The family immediately contacted the ZAKA Organization in Eretz Yisroel to help expedite the release of the niftar, who in turn advised the family to contact Rabbi Isaac Lieder in Monsey, NY.
Rabbi Lieder quickly contacted the medical examiner’s office in Roanoke, Virginia, and explained that the professor was Jewish and Jewish law prohibits performing an autopsy on a deceased person. They guaranteed Rabbi Lieder that even though they were dealing with the largest investigation of a shooting on US soil, there would in fact be no autopsy, just a minimally invasive procedure to remove the bullets, followed by a few x-rays.
Rabbi Lieder contacted Rabbi Yossi Kranz, who is the Chabad shliach in Virginia to go to the medical examiner’s office and act as a shomer for the niftar, while explaining to them that an autopsy is forbidden according to Jewish law.
Rabbi Lieder was scheduled to fly by private jet with Mr. Eli Rowe of Queens Hatzolah to pick up the niftar. Unfortunately, due to inclement weather, they were unable to fly. Rabbi Lieder drove in a private vehicle to the medical examiner’s office in Roanoke to take the niftar to New York City.
Rabbi Lieder, who spoke with Yeshivaworld, told of the amazing cooperation of state police in states along the way, which provided him with police escorts the entire way. He specifically mentioned the cooperation of the governor of Virginia’s office, various Virginia congressmen, and other public officials.
The niftar will be brought to Shomrei Hachomos Chapels in Brooklyn, N.Y., on Wednesday, where a taharah will be preformed by the Chesed Shel Emes Organization under the leadership of the esteemed askan, Rabbi Mendy Rosenberg.
A levaya is scheduled for 2:00 p.m. at Shomrei Hachomos, after which the niftar will be flown to Eretz Yisroel for another levaya and kevurah.
non Orthodox and Modern orthodox campus rabbis have made fine careers in their jobs and are held in high prestige in the Jewish world even without a fund raising opportunity.Thus people like Rabbi Charles Scheer (Columbia), James Ponet (Yale), Ben Z. Gold (Harvard) , Feller (UCLA) Joe Pollack (BU) all are widely respected in the larger Jewish world and live off a salary that is probably a lot less than a succesful Chabad shliach pays himself.
-----------------------------
Sheer's main success was as a fundraiser. Because he was parve and never stood up for Torah, he got money from frei donors, who were basically his bosses. He lived far better than the independently wealthy local Chabad shaliach, who never showed off what he had except when he had a simcha in the family and opened his home (never overdone and far less lavish than the Sheer residence in Riverdale) to all.
As a "rabbi," Sheer was laughed at by the many sincere frum students at Columbia, and most of his respect came from the conservative movement which saw him for what he was - one of theirs masquerading as MO. He did nothing to combat Arab propaganda at Columbia - in my day there he was the king of the appeasers, looking to set up all kinds of dialogue groups with organizations that were probably PLO and Saudi funded.
Izhak Schier
Don't hide behide made up names.
You are Lubavitch not chassidish.Big difference
As a whole, Mishpacha is friendly to Chabad, this is just a case of bad journalisim as most charadi organs, they are just into filling pages
As a rabbi Scheer was laughed at by many sincere frum students at Columbia.
Can you honestly tell me that this same sort of student on many campuses also laughs at the local Chabad rep ?
The work of Hillel rabbis and Chabad rabbonim (especially at large campuses)is bedavka among the non -Orthodox .
The attack on Mishpacha is based on ignorance.
Happens to be that one of their main writers, Yossi Elitov, is Lubab.Mishpacha is the most open minded about Lubab actually.Remember that this is privately owned, and a business venture.They need to make money and they are doing quite well.The English edition has been a pleasant surprise for them.Hamodia in Israel runs the party Aguda/Gerer line, so even if something is published about Lubavitch, it's politically motivated.
Therefore it seems that readers are not very interested in Lubavitch, you have to understand also, that Lubavitch is out there with their own magazines Kfar Chabad and the yellow Bais Moshiach, if anyone wants to read about Lubavitch they can read it there.
One thing I can't get over is the excuse Tzig and his fellow Lubab use when asked why Kfar Chabad, Kehos and every other Lubavitch publishing house will not print any non Lubavitch seforim or material (bear in mind that while they won't touch any non Lubab material they''ll attack others for not writing about Chabad)Their answer:All those publcations are for Lubavitch by Lubavitch, that is what they are set up for, this answer is totally disingenuous,BUT, if you have your Lubavitch publishing sources, why do you want/demand /need that we publish your crud???Publish it yourself!!
Crud, eh?
tzig, its too bad that the caliber of so many posters here is so shvach. Schneur, why propogate propoganda? Chabad on so many campuses is a fantastic example of cooperation and friendships with so many disparate elements of campus life: professors, students, administration, etc. I know of a campus where the sponsor profesor for the 'Chabad Club' was a goy and where Chabad worked hand in hand with Hillel wherever it was feasible. (The hillel director evolved to sending her kids to the local lubav day school.) self puyblished stuff is always gratuituously congratulatory no matter who puts them out. Chabad publications toot the chabad horn. thats just the way life works. Campus shlichus is cartainly out of the box, and requires tremendous cooperation by definition. also how can you mention feller (hillel director) from ucla as someone to emulate in any capacity? see this weeks jewish press where there is an article and a feller appology from '03after he attacked a lady and kicked her down the stairs for expressing an opinion that bothered him.....
Hirshel
Do you want honesty of cover up?
I feel that most of Lubavichs' publications are 'crud' (well to be honest, I'd use other words ober ess past nisht)
Tzig, was the Mishpachah article on college campuses in general, or just a profile of this one person?
hmmm:
The former.
Given the disaster that is Chabad outreach on campuses, why would anyone want to highlight that?
Chabad shluchim routinely fight tooth and nail with non-Chabad Orthodox rabbis on campus and even attack the kids associated with them. This is going on at UNC and U of Miami. This is what is supposed to bring secular kids closer to yiddishkeit?
Maybe all these rabbis should go back to Crown Heights and Boro Park and resume living off of welfare and leave us in the universities alone.
"Given the disaster that is Chabad outreach on campuses"
I am sure that the thousands of kids enjoying a home away from home, Jewish learning and inspiration will agree with you wholeheartedly.
Right 'home away from home', 'learning', and 'inspiration'. Are those code words for getting drunk off cheap liquor in what is essentially a soup kitchen with a Torah scroll?
Many if not most of the kids who go to these things do so for a. free food and b. free booze. They're not interested in learning nor are they inspired by visiting what can basically be termed a frat house with a black hat and tzitzit.
This situation doesn't seem to bother anyone though. The majority of the kids who go get free booze and the shluchim get to point and say 'look at all the kids in my house! I am so successful!'
Everyone wins, except for anyone with a genuine interest in Judaism.
mr. anonymous
so now we should test every kid that comes to a Chabad house on campus to see if he's sincere? How about we test ecey Yeshivah Bochur to see where he'd rather be? Do we then shut down Yeshivas based on true intentions? Are Roshei Yeshivah foolishly patting themselves on the back looking at the full Botei Midrash?
Yeshiva's don't consist of people simply sitting in a room and swilling down grain alcohol while a Rosh Yeshiva (or a Rebbe or a Mashpia or whatever) points and says "hey look how successful I am!" That however, is basically what goes on in these campus outreach places. Furthermore, given that I've seen shluchim go to frat parties on Shabbat makes me wonder who exactly oversees these people and what standards they're held to. I doubt many yungermen in Kollel anywhere excuse themselves from their Shabbos table to run off to cavort with 20 somethings over a keg in a basement.
I'm not talking about 'intent', I'm talking about what actually goes on. How is any of that supposed to inculcate some deep love of Judaism or growth of one's Jewish identity?
You come. You get drunk. You stumble away. How beautiful, I'm sure that's exactly what George Rohr had in mind.
wow
I've seen bitter before, but this takes the cake. So all campus shluchim do id throw parties and drink vodka. silly me, I thought they actually do something, those party animal shluchim. George Rohr must be really naive.
Tzigalleh
I 'love' how you 'jump' to conclusions. (Sounds so much like a 'vaibel', maybe your rebbitzen does some of the posts/comments?)
Anonymous pointed out that there are problems in Chabad Campus outreach, instead of seeing his point, your 'vaiberishe' rejoinder, so ALL rabbis should, blah blah...'Should we test all yeshiva boys', I mean to you see any comparison between a kid coming in for food, booze and 'hooking up' and a guy going to yeshiva to learn??What a krummeh kop!!
Anonymous sounds like he knows a wee bit, his point about the Lubab boasting about how many kids they have made Lubavitch is well known and seen/heard in any interview in Kfar Chabad or Bais Moshuach.MORE KIDS mean more $$$ and kovod, therefore Judaisms' real interests are not the priority.
I don't see George Rohr or anyone else visiting these places.
Something could be done, or, as what will probably happen, people will just throw their hands in the air and say that I'm just one 'bitter' person (bitter about what I'm not sure). Then of course everyone can beat their chests al chet when, chas v'shalom, someone gets in an accident after driving away from one of these little gatherings.
I'm not sure how plowing kids with cheap alcohol is any sort of effective outreach strategy. College students aren't idiots, gimmicks are easy to spot.
I guess what should be done is close up all Chabad houses on campus, right? Since all they do is have drinking parties and help guys and girls hook up, right? Are you out of your mind? Don't you think Rohr does SOME research before investing millions?
You seem to be unable to discuss this without a huge amount of emotion and invective. That's unfortunate given that as a college student, I'm assuming I'm the younger one.
What should be done is to stop this kind of outrageous behavior on the part of shluchim, who apparently have no one closely overseeing what they're doing.
And no, George Rohr does not go checking up on each and every campus Chabad house nor does he personally know each and every shliach. However he does trust that his money is being spent wisely to help educate the future of American Jewry in their heritage. I'm not quite sure how effectively that's being done over marathon drinking.
no, my dear "college student." You seem to be stressing the point that many come for the food and girls/guys, and that drinking takes place. While this MAY be the case, having many acquaintances who serve on campus I can easily say that you're blowing this whole thing out of proportion. Add to that the fact that you're telling me to lose the emotions when discussing this and it adds up to be one dishonest discussion on your part. I wish you'd fess up.
Anonymous
The mature thing to do is send some evidence or a personal report to George and Sami Rohr.If they are giving this charity for altruistic reasons, they may actually give it to more responsible organizations such as Ohr Someach or even Hillel.
I mean, Lubavitch haS thousands of so called 'shluchim' worldwide with very little tangibe results!! Compare that with Ohr Someachs' maybe ten outreach centers and see how packed their yeshiva in Jerusalem is!Morristown, the Lubavitch equivalent has maybe 100 guys!!!!
If the Rohrs want to give real tsedoka, theY have to demand accountability!!
Fess what up? Your injecting so much invective and emotion in to what is simply my pointing out that a problem/issue exists. It will not cease existing if you refuse to acknowledge it nor does it have anything to do with Mishpacha Magazine/some 'evil' anti-Chabad plot. I've never been to an AISH campus outreach center, but I imagine that they have the same problem with alcohol.
You have acquaintances and suddenly are now an expert on what goes on at these places? Have you ever been to a campus Chabad house? Have you ever been to a campus?
Basically what you've done so far is heard what I've had to say, jumped to wild conclusions, made horribly faulty analogies, and now accuse me of having something to 'fess up' to you. While all very odd and perhaps symptomatic of an inability to see flaws with regard to anything remotely attached to Lubavitch, it does nothing to address the issues raised.
Anonymous 449
What do you want from this pathetic Lubab:He wants you to 'fess up' to some imaginary accusation he has accused you of, but still cannot 'fess up' that the Lubavitcher Rebbe z'l passed on, is not shlit'a or moshiach (unless you believe in second comings)
Tzig , fess up to being a pathetic 'farchapteh' neshomo who is always looking to please the missionaries who did the brain job on him.
Btw, why do we need to go all the way to college campuses to see Lubavitchs' booze and sanity problems-just take a peek into the 'great' 770 on any weekday and see the frat parties taking place there.Step outside of 770 ,walk the streets of Crown Heights and realize that many more Lubab youth are frying out than those 'Rabbis' are bringing in.Lubab:Time for some bigtime INREACH!
When people resort to diatribes and cannot stick to one issue, and present themselves as suddenly being college students (will they become RYK's students for the purposes of the later thread?), do they lose credibility? Or as long as the attack is on Lubavitch it's credible, veho raiah Scotty?
It is so amazing that people can write and have an opinion about something they know nothing about. Visit a campus and see what is actually happening there. You will be amazed. I am a shliach on Campus. I have been here for a very long time. I live in the middle of nowhere. There are no frum families near us. There are no Jewish families near us. I live on a campus with 1500 Jewish students. There are many places that these students could get food. There are many places that these students could get alchohol. Lubavitch on campus has a strict alchohol policy in place. At my Chabad House we only serve wine, and even that is in limited quantities. I would love to turn in the high paying fundraising salary that "I pay myself" for a federation type gig. Let's look at the reality - I have no retirement plan, no health insurance, no money to pay for chinuch of my children, the last 5 years of tuition was put on credit card, Chabad activities have been put on personal credit card. Do you have any idea what it is like to wake up with over 100,000 in credit card debt? Especially when that debt was used solely to pay for Shabbos and Chinuch? I have visited UNC and UMiami. Anonymous's complaints are not warranted. The reality is that today Hakaros Hatov is a foreign concept.
hello?
any answers from you campus shliach bashers?
I guess not.
To the anon-campus 'rabbi',
How about being brave enough and telling us who you are and where you are a 'rabbi'.
Oh, I knew you wouldn't............
Your story lacks any credence.
willy wrote
'I mean, Lubavitch haS thousands of so called 'shluchim' worldwide with very little tangibe results!! Compare that with Ohr Someachs' maybe ten outreach centers and see how packed their yeshiva in Jerusalem is.'
I would be willing to bet that a large percentege of the young men and women in OS aish etc, first step to Yidishkeit was through Lubavitch.
Only thing is we dont belive in the 'be like me or your not jewish' version, and are happy when a person adds in yidishkiet, even if its not exactly our style.
To all those criticizing campus shluchum, - Shame on u - people that are moiser Nefesh, begashmius and beruchnius, home schooling their children, large budgets, with no normal income etc, to bring a Jew closer to Yidishkiet.
People see themselves when they look at others - just becouse u dont know how to do a selfless act, dosent mean others dont.
a shliach
Deluca -
You are infamous - we all know who you are and on what college you are-
You have simply bit the hand that fed you and now pose as a "concerned college student"
Sorry - no one buys your lies..
Who wants to bet that anon above is one of the shluchim from this great state of North Carolina?
With several thousand Chabad Shliachs, I just don't see how anyone can post public generalizations without doing some social research or a panel study. Of course, one could state personal experiences about a single data point they have seen, but the generalizations here are just served up as self-evident. Sort of like know-it-all pronouncements.
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