Wednesday, December 30, 2009

אותיות wanted



Speak to your average Litvak, even the upper crust guys, listen to him praise his teachers and the ones he admires, and you'll realize this: He has no shprach, no Osyos for what he's trying to convey. He'll use lots of cliches and catch phrases, like "Kulo Torah," or "ah shtik Torah," but what does that really mean? There are countless hours of interviews that some guy went around to a slew of talmidim of Lakewood until 1962 and got their impressions of their Rosh'shiveh. The conversations are just fine as long as they speak about themselves or can relate anecdotes about the RY. But none of them - and many are Rosh'shives themselves - can put the greatness of their Rosh'shiveh into Osyos. What I find most interesting is that many of these same people have gutte kep when it comes to dissecting a sugya, they're very smart, even in business matters despite never venturing into business themselves, but they cannot put ideas into words. In Reb Borech Ber's name they say "az s'felt in Hasboreh felt in Havoneh," but this is not so clear cut when it comes to identifying greatness, it's just that they lack the terminology, the vernacular, the lexicon; in other words, they lack Osyos.

Case in point: I asked our good friend Mr. Not Brisk, who is a very smart and observant fellow, about a term he used when referring to Yonah Minsker (Karpilov), HY"D, a prize talmid of the Mirrer Yeshivah, and one who was very admired by the late Brisker Rov. He called him "The Great," and I asked him why. He was "a tremendous masmid," he said, "dovuk in torah," he went on to say. "he was maymis atzmoh beOholei shel Torah, it bothered him immensely when he couldn't understand a tosfos," etc. When I asked him how that made him different from hundreds of others like him he began to get defensive and turned his attention to me. He had reached the pinnacle of hasboroh and was rendered speechless by an amateur like myself. He saw my questions as those of a "Lubavitcher who has no chashivus for Teyreh", doesn't appreciate it, has a different chinuch than his, which he says is also "kulo torah," and so on. "A Chabadsker who doesn't think that gadlus beTorah equals gadlus ho'Adam," is what I am, he says. It had to be that the prublem iz in mir, because every guy in Lakewood knows that Yayneh Minsker was great, and if I disagree then I must have no love for Torah. But what he failed to realize is that the chisoren iz in em, nisht in mir; he had failed to make his point, plain and simple. Using catch phrases and cliches only goes so far.

The truth that NB cannot be blamed. Like so many of us he was never taught to think or to elaborate on his thoughts. In many circles all that's needed is the look and the Reyd and you're good to go. As long as you stick to the circles you grew up in you're safe, nobody will ever challenge you to back up the claims you made. This is especially true in his circles, where any thought whatsoever is verboten. It didn't use to be this way, there used to be some Machshovoh in the Torah world, but that was outlawed, seemingly after the mashgichim of yesteryear passed on. The new regime saw any machshovoh as bittul teyreh, I guess. Maybe since so many in those circles are not Yotzei Lita, they have no mesorah of machshovoh, or maybe they're all Briskers, what do I know? Then again; Not Brisk is NOT A BRISKER, he should be able to open Reb Yeruchem's shmuessen and learn to think a bit, despite RY's fear of anything that shmekked a little bit like kabboloh. But maybe this is the only way; maybe the only way to continue in the Torah's ways is to throw away your thinking caps and stick with the gemoroh only, like they did in Marmures, and they had the numbers to prove that it worked like a charm...

60 comments:

fakewood inc. said...

awsome post. they will never allow thinking in the chareidishe velt. that leads people to question the gedaylim and then the askanim have no power.

schneur said...

Tzig very good , but its true in all chugim of Charedim - check out DER YID and the others chock full of cliches and "concepts" that if you stop to think about them make little sense.
Many chassidim can not even make small talk with non chassidim
I think you are right what you hint at about "derech Marmorash" azelche Yidden were more than 1 dimensional.
We are witness to a plethora of books and articles about rabbonim and gedolim but few talk about the inner soul of the man - was he a generous person ? did he have a sense of humor ? how did he relate to family , friends, was he compulsive, lazy, was he an introvert . Our biographies talk only of derech halimmud, kannous, Zionism , frumkayt, hiddur Mitzvos , kadosh mirechem etc etc.
.

Anonymous said...

better than the other way around of throwing around every title under the sun to a rebbe with questionable yichus and barely a minyan.

Isaac Balbin said...

Is it that they can't / won't express the attributes or is it that the attributes are purposely concealed by the protagonist or publisher as a derech. Don't forget the ban on making of a gadol. In particular, consider how much would have to undergo הגעלה ברותחין (artscrolled) in order to be edible. I think most of it would have had to be artscrolled leshitosom and as such you are left with the bland sameness you complain about.

If you remove the alleged mofsim from Chassidishe Rebbes what are you left with. I'd suggest a certain sterile sameness which could also be confused with a lack of אותיות

PS. I can't help myself, in context, and say "GEVALDIK"

shimon said...

I don't get this post.Are you trying to contrast between Yeshivishers and yourself or between your average yeshiva guy and a Lubavitch? All of the Ultra Orthodox?Not quite sure.

N said...

Nail on the head Hirshel, I appreciated this issue being acknowledged, it's something that's bothered me for a while.

Schneur - I read 2 books on Gedolim, that could have been plagiarised from the other, despite being about different people. I've not read another since!

baalbatish said...

Meyredik!

snag said...

"There are countless hours of interviews that some guy went around to a slew of talmidim of Lakewood until 1962 and got their impressions of their Rosh'shiveh."

Please elaborate.

"In Reb Borech Ber's name they say "az s'felt in Hasboreh felt in Havoneh,"

I think that is from his Rebbe, R. Chaim Brisker.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel,
The Charadi biographer Sorasky is the essence of this non articulateness that is prevelant in our society, he writes on everone thwe same, same expressions of Gadlus, on Spinka,Misnagdim,Pupa or Ger, were they mamesh equal? there is no talent in non of all these charadie biographers but he is the icing on the cake. He wrote 1 original work Yesoid Hamaleh that is close to his backyard Slonim , with some fallacies but nevertheless some real work

Anonymous said...

Issac
By Chassidic rebbes biographies they usually have a agenda to emphasize his gadlus in nigleh detorah so if you remove the mofsim you are leftover with the nigleh stories.

snagville said...

I am convinced by now that HT is two different people, or at least you have a split personality. When you defend Chabad or speak on certain matters you are articulate, witty, original etc. (see us Litvaks know how to describe Maalos in others) but when you attack De Lita you start foaming at the mouth and you become irrational and every post seems like a mountain out of a mole hill. Maybe it's the pic that accompanied the piece, maybe it is my defensive Litvishe blood, or maybe the lady doth protest too much but there is a serious lack of your Rebbe's supposed Ahvas Yisroel in this piece.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

snagville
tell me where

bring examples

I thought I was respectful, and just making a point, and maybe even including my Lubavitch brethren in the criticism!

fakewood inc. said...

i dont think this post was out of hand all he was saying is that people today lack the power of explaining.

snagville said...

It is just the general "Taam" of the piece. This is actually why I said the point about split personality because the shmeck of your posts have almost a whole different approach some times. Don't get me wrong I understand the point you are trying to make but A) Why try to make it B)I think you are barking up the wrong tree because as the 2nd half of the piece is mashmah you are really talking about the Yeshivishe in Lakewood who we both know have as much Lithuanian blood as R' Shimon Schwab, R' Michel Ber Weissmandel or the Belzer Rebbe if you get my drift. But the beginning of the piece made out to sound as an attack on De Lita which is not true. As far as RYM all you have to know that he is a legend in the Yeshiva World in that he combines two elements both of course relating to his not being around after the War. One legendary because of his youth (I would say similar to the Gerrer fellow in the Warsaw ghetto Matis Gelman) obviously without the heroism I mean that the youth itself is what makes his legend bigger (In other words if Matis Gelman was 60 years old no one would be talking about him). The 2nd element is the fact that he didn't make it itself. As we know besides older Yidden (by this I mean 65+) where there were hundreds of big ones killed, if you ask most people today they will say that HKB"H saved all the big ones and the only ones killed were R' Menachem Ziemba and R' Yona Minsker (R' Elchonon was 65 by the way).

Mottel said...

Great post.

yehupitz said...

I like the post, but do not understand why you think this is solely a litvak phenomenon.

baalbatish said...

Snagville,

Please translate into English.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yehupitz

it's not limited to Mr. Not Brisk's circles. No. Not by a long shot. It's just that it was his claim that lead me to create the thread.

sam said...

In my experience, the litvishe crowd in general does not know how to form proper structure for speeches or in writing chidushim. All the ideas are all over the place, no beginning and no end. a yesod here, a yesod there.
I'm not sure whether this is related to this post directly, but it certainly seems to come from a similar place

Anonymous said...

>>But what he failed to realize is that the chisoren iz in em, nisht in mir; he had failed to make his point, plain and simple. Using catch phrases and cliches only goes so far.

This is one of your more obtuse posts. Have you realized that all Chabad can do in extolling its "emes" and priority over all Jews is based on buzz words and drivel which cannot be appreciated by anyone outside of the indoctrination camps you call tomchei tmimim. That you cannot understand that for some people Torah means a lot more than it means to you or your "rebbe" demonstrates your ignorance.

Anonymous said...

>>In my experience, the litvishe crowd in general does not know how to form proper structure for speeches or in writing chidushim. All the ideas are all over the place, no beginning and no end. a yesod here, a yesod there.
I'm not sure whether this is related to this post directly, but it certainly seems to come from a similar place

This is an INCREDIBLY ignorant comment. All you have demonstrated is that you have NEVER learned a single litivishe sefer in your entire worthless, meaningless life. You are so used to the rambling of your ignorant teacher and leader that you dont know anything about straight thinking.

Anonymous said...

Sam,
maybe they want to imitate Reb Chaim on Rambam, his writing is very bad, it was a big discussion whaen the sefer came to light, that the blitz is missing,(Ilu Mimiechet)His grandson of Boston writes a Mechaye,

Anonymous said...

>>maybe they want to imitate Reb Chaim on Rambam, his writing is very bad, it was a big discussion whaen the sefer came to light, that the blitz is missing,(Ilu Mimiechet)His grandson of Boston writes a Mechaye,

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!?!?! You simply do not have the intellectual capacity to appreciate r' chaim. Only a paehtic waste of human life could write such drivel.

Anonymous said...

Any comment on the ban by rabunei Lubavitch on comments on chabad lubavitch sites?

sam said...

I am talking about the "heinteker" rov/rosh yeshiva's shmuess, or the lakewood guys speaking at simchos, or writing in small kovtsim.

Anonymous said...

Lubavitcher chasidim rend to be able to explain themselves well and clearly.This is because the learning in Chabad yeshivos is on a far higher and clearer methodology based on the Rebbes sichos and maamorim, which everyone agrees have unbelievable clarity

daniel said...

The Rebbes Sichos are the most clearly written sefer probably since the Baal Hatanya wrote the Shulchan Oruch.His gift of clarity is unique.In one terse comment he could explain what took others pages and pages.
Horav Zevin was also gifted in a similar way.
All the Lubavitcher rebbeim were known for their ability to speak clealy and concisely

Anonymous said...

>>This is because the learning in Chabad yeshivos is on a far higher and clearer methodology based on the Rebbes sichos and maamorim, which everyone agrees have unbelievable clarity

His sichos live were repetetive and derivative. his sichos were written by admiring followers who tried to make him look good. There are plenty of rosh yehisvos who actually wrote their seforim, and their ideas are deeper and more clear. If you were a maven, you would not be writing about the clarity of Lubavitch yeshiva bachurim at all. Lamentably, you are an indoctrinated hero-rebbe worshipping man who cares not for the truth but for meaningless, hollow points for your tesm--the "real" jews--chabad.

evanstonjew said...

You have to be something of a literary artist to write hagiography that is not repetitive and clichéd. Rabbi Zevin in his Ishim ve Shitos exhibited this talent. He was able to both portray striking descriptions of his subjects, as well as explain important differences in their respective ways of learning. I read Maimon's Sarei Hamaiaw as a teenager and loved it. I feel hagiographies are far from worthless when written by someone with some literary style.

Those gedolim who did not receive such analyses, remain a mystery. What was Reb Isser Zalman's derech like, and how did it differ from RAK's or Rav Shach's? Not so easy to say. I am not so knowledgeable in this area, but my impression again is that it is very difficult to put into words differences in styles of pilpul, even when you understand the pilpul. One feels this difficulty with greater urgency in post- R. Chaim chidushim because the claim is made that these chidushim are not stam pilpul, but a form of conceptual analyses. Fair enough, so compare and contrast. They are all not the same but it is hard to say how they were different. How was Reb Leib Mallin's style of learning different from Reb Elya Chazan's? It might be that you need to know so much it takes half a lifetime to say anything.

A literary artist, no matter how talented, needs the command of a language. Many bnei torah these days manage to speak three languages poorly. This also presents a problem. There are hespedim posted on the internet by very good and sincere people that are not what they should be because the Yiddish consists of 200words plus the word mamish.

One last impression. I listened to a fair amount, far from all, of the Lakewood tapes. I felt many had no clue what the rosh yeshivah was saying. Of those who did understand what they call "the entire binyaan" of the shiyur, most could not produce similar binyanim elsewhere. And not everyone who knew how these chidushim were put together could put it in words. Most everyone was agreed the shiyurim were mamish moiredig, a claim which is undoubtedly true.

daniel said...

To all those commenting about Lekutei Sichos:Have you ever tried to lear a sicha kedosha? This is something that on it it the possuk in tehillim says "taamu ur'uh ki toiv!"
LEKUTEI SICHOS are widely available ,yet sadly many have not yet studied in them.Once you do you are hooked on it for life.Trust me on this.

Had more people studied the Sichos we would not have to spend time on petty fights, who is greater than whom etc.Once you lear a sicha and

a maamar the answer is obvious.
R'Hirshel,
I wish you could post some sichos from time to time, that would for sure be a kiddush shem Lubavitch and the Rebbe, instead of getting into nasty spats.Once they read them they"ll be mushpa from the real ahavas yisroel the sichos beam with

Anonymous said...

EvanstonJew
the difference between Reb Isser Zalmen and RAK is Himell and Erd, Rak is old school pre brisk, Even Hozel is Brisk. R, Shach is typical yeshiviesh

Not Brisk said...

Even HaEzel is only partially Brisk. The lomdus is, but not all of the cheshboynes. Rav Shach, in a way was more "Brisk" pertaining to the toychen and style.
You are right about Reb Ahron.

Rav Chazan is, in a way, a pilpul of "Brisk". He will make more akimtas and lisheetasyos than Rav Shach and Reb Leib.

Anonymous said...

>>Had more people studied the Sichos we would not have to spend time on petty fights, who is greater than whom etc.Once you lear a sicha and a maamar the answer is obvious.

Nebach, this man's an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Chabad web sites are no longer allowing comments.Thats what the rabbonim paskened.Any thoughts??

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

great idea.
the comments there were downright embarrassing.

fakewood inc. said...

what chabad sites dont allow comments?

Anonymous said...

tzig you aint from heamstead. rumor has it you reside in crown heights. bray claims he's from mi. yet i heard he lives in montreal. y is everyone so embarassed where they're truly from.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I ain't? says you?

I would swear if I could.

orthodoxjew said...

ok ht you hit a faul ball again once i was speaking to a chines imigrant as many times as i reapeted my self in many diffrent ways he still did not understand you know why because when it comes to laungage its not just words there is culture also . same here a yeshivishe person can try to expalin some thing to a lubab , it wont work even if you know the lingo u got to understand the culture too p.s. r chaim can be learned on many levels to really aprciate you need many years of amalus batorah and than youl uun

heshy said...

"great idea.
the comments there were downright embarrassing."

So not allowing comments will make people more moral maybe smarter??

Funny thing is that in a backhanded way the rabbonim and we are talking the biggee Lubavitcher rabbonim gave a hechsher to Chabad.info a nefarious Meshichist site.They, apparently wrote a letter assuring comments and pictures of women addressed to the Meshichist site!
What one infers is that comments are ossur by Meshichiten are kosher.
To me it's just strange.Hope it's not true that these rabbonim agree with the Meshichist agenda

Oilem Goilem said...

"His sichos live were repetetive and derivative. his sichos were written by admiring followers who tried to make him look good. There are plenty of rosh yehisvos who actually wrote their seforim, and their ideas are deeper and more clear. If you were a maven, you would not be writing about the clarity of Lubavitch yeshiva bachurim at all. Lamentably, you are an indoctrinated hero-rebbe worshipping man who cares not for the truth but for meaningless, hollow points for your tesm--the "real" jews--chabad."
Hirshel
The psyche of the above lunatic that authored this "drivel" (A word that he seems to be hung up with as can be seen on some of his other rants) can be encapsulated in two "cliche" ridden words.Hatred and ignorance without further hesber.
This shtick tinnef,who is obviously an escapee from some asylum or perhaps his rosh yeshiva from which he learned such unadulterated venom was the escapee, should be flushed down the toilet with all other d__k.
If my memory serves me correctly,it was just a few weeks ago that you wrote a very hartzige piece in which you pledged that you would never allow such attacks on the Rebbe,Lubavitch and yourself to be posted on your blog.Is your memory so short?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Oilem

you're 100% right.

sholom p said...

I think that the rabbonim in Lubavitch are pandering to the right wing black hatters, but they don't realize that the haters will always hate us no matter what we do.
Allow moderated freedom of expression!!!

Anonymous said...

Lekutei Sichos, even the so called "simple ones, have much more depth,bekius and wonderful chiddushim than any R'Chaim or Gri"z.It is a mix of Minchas Chinuch,R'Chaim and the Rogatchover all in one!Throw in Chassidus to that mix too!
This fact known to any Lubavitcher or anyone who learned a sicha is what scares the "lomdim" in Bnei Brak and Lakewood so much.Once Lekutei Sichos penetrates even to the yeshiva world, the hardest nut to crack, we are on our way out of the Golus

daniel said...

Oilem, don't take the haters seriously.Trust me, he has never, ever learned a sicha.If we can get him to do just that, he"ll come over to the right side,

Btw,I don't get what you mean that he uses drivel in his other rants.This guy is anonymous, how do you know about any other posts?

Oilem Goilem said...

"This guy is anonymous, how do you know about any other posts?"
Daniel
Men darf zein ah maiven.

Anonymous said...

Can someone give a secific example of a sicha that i can read which is "much more depth,bekius and wonderful chiddushim than any R'Chaim or Gri"z.It is a mix of Minchas Chinuch,R'Chaim and the Rogatchover all in one!Throw in Chassidus to that mix too!"
I've never read a sicha and would like to get a picture of what you're talking about.

Ohev Yisroel said...

>>Lekutei Sichos, even the so called "simple ones, have much more depth,bekius and wonderful chiddushim than any R'Chaim or Gri"z.It is a mix of Minchas Chinuch,R'Chaim and the Rogatchover all in one!Throw in Chassidus to that mix too!

You never learned a R' Chaim, a minchas chinnuch, a Griz, or the Rogatchover. You are a hater, an indoctrinated chabadsker filled to the brim with chabad lies. May you be zoche to see the light. But until then, have the honesty to stop advancing your ridiculous assinine comments. You are only demonstrating your dishonesty and helpless devotion to a dead, godless cause.

Oilem Goilem said...

"You never learned a R' Chaim, a minchas chinnuch, a Griz, or the Rogatchover. You are a hater, an indoctrinated chabadsker filled to the brim with chabad lies. May you be zoche to see the light. But until then, have the honesty to stop advancing your ridiculous assinine comments. You are only demonstrating your dishonesty and helpless devotion to a dead, godless cause."
Wow! Your "ahavas Yisroel" as exemplified by your above post is simply overwelming.
In spite of your name change, I'm sure you're the same "ahavas Yisrolnick" who posted the previous "elequent" posts which were overflowing with expressions of "love" for your fellow Jews.Oh,but I forget they were written about that hateful offshoot of Judaism called "Lubavitch" and the Mitzvah of Ahavas Yisroel" doesn't apply to them.
Lets cut the c___p.In your obvious ignorance you never opened a sefer "Likutai Sichos" at any point in your miserable life, so go back to your deep study of Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck comic books and maybe you will"see the light".

Anonymous said...

rym
was truly doing what they all did. a real masmid/lamdan/shakdon etc. to stick out as mishichmo ulemala in such a crowd says a lot!

Anonymous said...

I dont get it. Do you koolaid drinkers really believe that nobody other than Lubavitchers ever learned a sicha? Do you really think that it's totally impossible for somebody to learn a sicha and not be turned on to Chabad? I personally know a big talmid chacham who holds a prestigious position in the hanala of one of NYs most prestigious yeshivos that spent a few years in chabad and knows and understands more sichos than you ever learned, many of which he heard first hand. He is also quite familiar with a lot of other toras chabad from the previous rebbes. Yet, im kol zeh, he left chabad and never turned back. Would he agree that the sichos are geshmak, yes im sure he would - but would he put them above the toras of many other admorim or roshei yeshivos, no. Im sure that your brilliant answer is that he just doesnt understand it. but he does.

Anonymous said...

I'm sill waiting since friday for someone to tell me an example of a sicha i can read to see for myself. Anyone?

shelo asani chareidi said...

The maturity over here is overwhleming.

SatmarTC said...

Tzig
great post!

I don't think that this would be in general,different in chassiddishe circles

I am very impressed with Likutei Sichos and how the LUb Rebbe teach the reader mamash how to think

for example
I was just learning a sicha in chelek 36 ,page 1,Parshas Shemos about "bitachon"
wow, is powerfull, and life changing!

daniel said...

There is nobody who is HONEST about Torah study, that disagrees that there has never been a Torah scholar on the Rebbes level.I refer you to the Rambam that clearly states that Moshiach will be even greater than Moshe Rabeinu. (not a greater Novi,though)People who knew the Rebbe(non chasidim even) clearly believed that he was at a minimum Moshiach Shebedor, who, if Hashem wants, will be Moshiach in that generation(note that Moshiach Shebedor in not a Lubavitcher concept, it is mentioned in the commentary of R'Ovadya MiBartenura and the Chasam Sofer).
Why are we spending time arguing about the obvious?Even a Satmar chosid like the poster SatmarTC has seen the uniqueness of the Rebbes Torah, something that truly encompasses the WHOLE Torah,in a way even more than the Rambam , that is a capsule, only of Nigleh Dtorah, while the Rebbe incorporates,Kabollah and Chassidus!(remember the famous saying said about Rambam "MeMoshe ad Moshe loh kam keMoshe")
Ta'amu ur'u ki tov!!

daniel said...

If I may, I want to add a something.
I try not use negativity in spreading the world of Lubavitch and The Rebbe because Lubavitch is all about the positive and being negative even to "defend" puts us in a defensive and negative light.In reality we don't have anything to be ashamed of that we have to "defend".Sometimes, maybe we have not explained ourselves well enough,though and there will always be misguided individuals who will act in the name of The Rebbe and Lubavitch but in actuality just represent themselves.They mean well but are misguided.
ANYWAY, I want to tell over an anecdote I have heard about the Chozeh from Lublin:He was once told about two young men who were both against the new world of Chasidim who had been arguing with chasidim about chasidic theology.Suddenly one of the two men grabbed a chasidic sefer and threw it to the floor as a sign of his adamant protest against Chasidism, his friend though bent down, picked the sefer up and kissed it.When the Chozeh was told of this story he said that the young man who had thrown the sefer will eventually see the light and become a fervent chosid, while the one who picked up the sefer will be a fine person but never zocheh to see the light of Chassidus.The reason is that someone passionate enough to throw a holy book to the floor ,if convinced will have the same passion for Chasidus, while someone respectful but without the passion will never be passionately involved even if won over.IN our case the most vehement posters here that some call "haters" a term that I"m not comfortable calling anyone,are much more likely to see the light of Chassidus and The Rebbe, while some of the posters who are respectful of Lubavitch and even learn Ma'amorim etc may not be passionate enough to join.
And a small note about The Rebbe:Many question why Lubavitchers are so into The Rebbe and why we are always trying to get people involved in The Rebbe,his teachings and inyonim.
In my very humble opinion the reason is that The Rebbe is a gift from Hashem that we in Lubavitch have gotten, but in truth The Rebbe is so overwhelming in his greatness that it's clear to me that we did not merit to have this gift for ourselves.This is a gift for all Jews and in actuality a gift for all mankind.A gift from G-d as a protective measure against one of the toughest centuries for Jews and mankind.I don't think any century in history has had such turbulence.Two World Wars that killed hundreds of millions, new inventions, new ideas:Communism etc..
Hope this post was not to longwinded, it comes from my heart!

Broolyn Ave said...

Daniel,
Very well said.

Anonymous said...

Gevald!
Tzig!
Really, how can you let this Daniel fellow post here. His few posts present Chabad in a terribly negative light. One of his posts can knock Chabad more than 100 posts which try to belittle the Rebbe with name calling and the like.
He writes, "there has never been a Torah scholar on the Rebbes level"...??? Where do you stand on that?
Do you agree that the Rebbe is/was "greater than Moshe Rabeinu"?
Is this some sort of silly joke?
How about writing off the many thousands of ehrliche yidden who have learned the Rebbe's sichos but do not think the Rebbe is the greatest Torah scholar of all time as being dishonest about torah study?!
Tzig, if you really wanted to "provide a counter opinion to the Chabad bashing" why the heck would you let this clown post?! He bashes chabad more than any single post I have read on this blog in years!!

Anonymous said...

Anon,
Daniel is a Chosid that express his Hergeshim and Moshe Rabienu will definitely forgive his outpour of affection for his Rebbe, he was a Ohev Yisroel,

maitiv said...

I find this lack of ability to describe the great rabbinic leaders in meaningful terms to be common in all orthodox circles. And the gift of good communication is fairly rare in circles which do not mandate writing skills be used during the educational process. Therefore college graduates tend to be able write a coherent paper on subjects they have studied (though sometimes not on anything else). And something taught in an organised manner is easier to regurgitate clearly than something absorbed more casually.
Frankly, there is another reason why all the rabbis sound the same in the typical frumie biography. For individuality to be displayed, shortcomings have to be included, and that is anathema to the mainstream chareidi. The absent-minded masmid is often late to appointments. The man who is always on time for davening often ends conversations in an abrupt manner, leaving his interlocutor uncomfortable. The kind-hearted hospitable host who invites all types to his house, often leaves his children feeling ignored. And so forth.... hagiographies do not acknowledge the mixture of positive and negative character traits which make up a live human.