Tuesday, December 15, 2009

אהן בליטות


(L-R) Reb Chaim Shlomo Leibovitz and Reb Shmaryahu Yosef Chaim Kanievski

You might say I'm still reeling from all the flak I got over the O Deutsch piece. I too like it when at least some of you agree with the point that I'm making, and I'm usually pretty sure of myself by the time I put in writing. For some reason you people - at least those of you who don't know me personally - think that it was an attack on Peyos in general. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anybody that knows me would attest to the fact that I'm a very proud proponent of peyos, I wear them myself, as do my boys, but altz mit a shiur. Even in Bene Beraq of today, where anything goes, I'll bet you guys a slice of pizza that ROD sticks out like a brown thumb. Oh wait, he has brown thumbs too, I meant a green thumb. Not R AJ Soloveyczyk, not R Dovid or R Meir or R Yitzchok S for that matter, not R Chaim Kanievski, not R Shmuel Greineman, not R AL Steinman, nobody looks like that. The only ones that resemble him somewhat are those who shaved their side locks for many years and then grew them in their later years. Then, naturally, the hair gets very bushy and wild, almost uncontrollable. Ironically, it's Reb Chaim Sholom Leibovitch, whose appointment as R"M in Ponovezh caused the Markovits clan to raise such a ruckus and go as far as threatening his life, he's the one with the frizzy peyos, but with him it's obvious that it's just the way it grows now. (It seems like in the above picture he made an extra effort to tame them, lekoved the chasuneh...)

All this is an outgrowth of the Hungarian/Galicianer/CI/Brisk Litvak movement, where people with no mesorah began to rethink everything they ever saw in their parents' home and reinvented yiddishkeit. Deutsch is an Hungarian, maybe even from a non-Chasidic home, and he probably had no peyos growing up, I would assume his father didn't either. Or, maybe he did have peyos and was surprised by the fact that growing up many of his Bnei Brak friends didn't, so he took it to the extreme. Bringing rayos from the Beis HaLevi, which is a painting, or the Rogatchover, who's hair and moustache grew long as well, is beyond ludicrous. I'm surprised at some of you, trying to pull the wool over our eyes with comparisons that just don't jive. Do you really think we're that naive? This man (R' Osher Deutsch) combs his peyos every morning. Guaranteed. Not only does he comb them but I would bet five forint (that's Hungarian money, for those of you in Lakewood and Crown Heights) that he combs them that they look as wide and unkempt as possible... There's no other explanation, at least not in my dark and unenlightened world, a world devoid of Torah according to some of you here... Why I'm bothering with this issue in the first place is beyond me. The more I like at this thread the more foolish it looks.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but this was not the way in di Litteh. They may have wanted blittes on their esrogim, but they never walked around with blittes. Those that did were oysgetohn fun der velt. Anybody over the age of 30 knows the very simple looking Litvishe Yidden, the ones who never chas vesholem wore double breasted suits because they were too stylish, and the ones who drove the oldest and most banged-up cars. They wore bent-down hats with no pinches, and had a shtikkel beard with bushy sideburns. Any emphasis on trappings like a long coat or this type of hat or that size peyos were considered silly and left to the clueless chassidim. Nowadays it seems like everything's changed. Every second Litvak now ears a kapote. They all have Brisker peyos and Borsalinos. You'd be hard pressed to find a wife without a custom sheitel. What has happened with the pure world that the Olam HaYeshivos once was? The way I see it the outgrowth of peyos went together with the fancy suits and hats and sheitels, it's not an increase in hiddur bemitzvos at all. Chassidim are becoming more misngadish and the misnagdim are becoming more chassidish. With Rebbes, kvittlach and peyos.

It's a funny world.

34 comments:

Minkatcher Aynikle said...

There is so much emes in this post it's scary. Brisk (unwittingly, I believe) produced a Klipah that allows anyone to reject mesorahs of hundreds of years. YU took that same Klipah in a different direction. RJBS's son Haym has a great article about how we switched from an oral mesorah to a book-read one that is causing all this "frumkeit".

non mouse said...

oy tzigaleh! vos zil men tiyn az laider bist in deym gerecht.

besides for some that had minhogim/mesora from home and chucked it out the window...

or those who ignore the rebbes horaah that meshumadim to lubavitch shoulndt change their levush until ? doros.....

non mouse said...

where albert wticking up for kovod hatorah?

or does he only do it for kook?!
whose payros give klal yissraaah-ell a lot of naches..

snagville said...

I am literally red in the face from embarrassment as I read this post. I must face up to my Litvishe mesorah in this regard and realize that I too have strayed a bit in this area (although B'H I don't have Payos). If we would all look and act like the Alte Litvak you describe the world would be a better place. (I am sure each one of us from whatever Kreizer they come from could think of some Alte link in the mesorah and be nostalgic. Even I guess Yidden from "White Russia" Ahem.).

avremel said...

If I'm not mistaken, R'Osher and his brother R'Shmuel and there are other brothers are the sons of one of the sceretaries in Ponovizh,If I'm not mistaken he is the fellow greeting the young bochur coming to see Ponivizh in the movie clip you posted.And yes he does have peyos.Around his ears Belzer style.So my guess is that R'Osher always had beard and peyos, like many Bnei Brakers.

fakewood inc. said...

i think it has to do with the level of wealth the community has. today the oilem in lakewood and such places are rolling in dough and in williamsburg they are broke.

Friendly Anonymous said...

You're missing the point (as usual, some unkind souls might say).

You never heard of bochrim walking around wearing fur coats in the summer in order to be mevatesh themselves? or going into a fruit store and asking for nails?

It appears to me that he is davka wearing peyos like this to highlight that the main thing is the penimuyus, and not how one's dressed.

Anonymous said...

the strange think about brisk, theie famous slogan(what a oxymoron for Brisk to have a slogan)we are not Geirem we have a Mesorah, Mesorah from when? 2 genarations? was the Beis Halevi a Ger? they irony is that these people have less mesorah then a Poshuter Yid. My son ate last week shabos by a Brisker Einikel,you can write a full kuntres of the new invented meshugaisen,in the name of Mesorah.

Anonymous said...

fakewood, you're too much of a טוב עייו, don't be so bitter, gelt isn't altz.

fakewood inc. said...

im not bitter B"H i have gelt. my point was that the more money that is around the more you can jump into hoilam haze.

Brisk rocks said...

Keep on beating up on Brisk and see their yeshivos and Brisk look alikes such as R'Tzvi Kaplans and others grow by leaps and bounds.You can hardly get in to AJ and R'Dovid today, even the cream of the crop.
Wonder when that"ll happen with Labkovsky's place or the Roshs' or Hersons.
Not anytime soon.Not before Moshiachs revelation for sure
Fact is to get a TT grad that can read pushuteh ivreh is becoming a problem as was evidenced at the Kinnus

yehupitz said...

Anon 3:50pm,

I would be thrilled if you shared your son's observations of the brisker Einikel's Shabbos seuda. I can't even imagine what sort of 'chiddushim' you are alluding to. Please share.

shelo asani chareidi said...

I've been belaboring this exact point for years though I've taken it to a slightly different conclusion. Y'yasher kochacha Tzig!

nonmouse: are you complaining that he isn't standing up for RAJS or that he does stand up for RK?

Anonymous said...

Brisk Rocks.
What happened at the Kinnus?
Who didn't know ivreh?

I saw parts of it. Looked pretty good.

Anonymous said...

attempt to fisk
der heilger brisk
a bone to pick
makes me sick

tis busting at the seems
with the crops' cream
shines like a great beam
strait from a dream

it is no small feat
attracts all the elite
a shiur on repeat'
not enough seats

oh' all those nisht-farginers
deviants and sinners
from the non-leaners
known as Lubavitchers'

Yosef Greenberg said...

"where people with no mesorah began to rethink everything they ever saw in their parents' home and reinvented yiddishkeit"

You mean Lubavitch, don't you?

orthodoxjew said...

well well tzig i have to agree with you that alot of the yeshiva world today are of hungarian decent , after the natzies were finished there were no litvacks left many went frie before the war now lets look befor the war we had poilishe russishe hungarishe litvishe yeckishe etc yidden all of them came about from the hashpah of there countries now all have moved to americha or

orthodoxjew said...

cont. all have moved to america and ey now the culture around them is mashpia to create a certain type of jew ' lets face it over the years of gollus jews have changed many times over so this is 1 more time you seem to be overflowing with hate to the brisker yeshiva world why? what have they done to you besides ignore chabad

not a chance said...

Tzig:
Mesorah? Like the Rebbe who decided not to wear a Spuddik and instead wore a smashed old hat?... (Which in turn has all his Chassidim today wearing smashed hats.)
You have a problem with the way ROD looks? Have you ever seen a Chabdsker before? The unkempt, bearded, untucked, homeless looking ones?
Funny how when goyim in this community always question why the Lubavitchers always look so silly with their wild beards, long coats and colorful kippa's the lubavitchers say that they are proud to look different; and when the non frum people around here are curious to know why the Lubavitchers cannot dress neatly and look put together the Lubavitchers say they don’t care if they look foolish in the eyes of others.
Tell me Tzig, did your zeideh wear a frok like you do? De he wear a smashed hat like you do? And you think that ROD deviated from his mesorah by growing wild peyos?
To chas v’shalom question your Rebbe for not sleeping in the sukka is borderline apikursos, although one might be curious to know why he is seemingly not following halacha, but still – we can’t question what other Jews do, just let them live; but a Jew who decides to grow big peyos, what’s the deal with him???

are you serious? said...

TZIG, Please tell us how many old Lubavitchers wore colorful yarmulka’s with pictures!

Good! Now go dedicate 3 posts to ridiculing them about how stupid they look and how they are a bunch of fools deviating from their mesora!!!!

Anonymous said...

Not a chance
Did the Rebbes father wear A spudik? in Lubavich the Shtriemel was not a Iker in Yahadus the Rebeiem didn't wear them outside of town,so what mesorah does he have? he didnt feel that he he s a full fledge Rebbe with all the Colored Bekiches and nonsense, he was a chosid of the FR and doing what has to be done, as far as I know he said for 40 years Azkir Al Hatzion...

fakewood inc. said...

no they just wore hats

Anonymous said...

A chabad chosid that is not in Beis Hamedrash has no reason to stay in the box of black hattisim, he has to emphasise to the world that Yiddishkiet is Tefilin , shemiras hamitzvas that were given in Sinai, not some Eastern European peasant wardrobe,But show me a Chabad Rosh Yeshiva or Rov with odd clothing etc.. then he should be ridiculed for the fool he is.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I didn't realize a person you consider a gaon and a RaM in the "Harvard of Yeshivos" is the same as a Lubavitcher bochur who needs attention. I guess he is...

nu said...

OK Tzig, that answers the colorful yarmulka point. How about the wild beards and untucked shirts?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

well, if the beard is "wild" becaue it grows that way there's nothing that can be done. untucked shirts? nu nu.

Shauly said...

"Chassidim are becoming more misngadish and the misnagdim are becoming more chassidish. With Rebbes, kvittlach and peyos."

And Lubavitch is a camp for itself a camp called "Chutz Lamachaneh"


Hirshel,
What exactly did you see in Lubavitch that made you get up and leave Boro Park.Evidently it's not something that others have seen, because becoming Lubavitch in Boro Park in quite uncommon.

(I've known a number of the gevoreneh Lubabitcher from Boro Park and I"m not asking on them veda"l)

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

not a chance

my elter zeide wore a frock.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

What exactly did you see in Lubavitch that made you get up and leave Boro Park.

people like you. VeDal.

shauly said...

Hirshel,can you answer my question?

shauly said...

Sorry,I did not see you "answered"
Can you try for a real answer now?

dovid said...

"people like you. VeDal."

?

Anonymous said...

I believe Deutsch is in avel for his father...hence the strange hirsuteness (i assume based on something, but maybe just a personal method of honoring his father's memory)

Anonymous said...

Not a question
"question your Rebbe for not sleeping in the sukka is borderline apikursos"

how right you are that it is borderline kefira. Kol Hamharher Achrie Raboi Keili Mharher Achrie Shechina,isnt strange that the Remo writes that most Kelal Yisroel is not sleeping