Friday, December 4, 2009

History - and maybe the end of an era!


(L-R) Reb Aron Leib Steinman shlit"a and Reb Yoel Kahan, shlit"a

Reb Yoel is tough to ignore once he's in front of you. You can say all you want behind his back, but he's a major presence, and Reb Aron Leib seemed to be quite enthralled by him - judging from the big smiles here in the picture. I also don't think RALS is a major Kano'i when it comes to Chabad, or any other matter, so this may not have been a major "kibbush" for Lubavitch. The Satmorim hate him for allowing bochurim no longer in Yeshiva to join the NaChal HaCharedi. Others have other issues with him, but I've heard from Lubavitchers that learned in Ponovizh in the 50s - and I may have mentioned it here already - that "Reb Aron Leib iz ah Tzaddik." And if they can say that then there's nothing more to add. The zealots want to know who let him in. They want heads to roll here. Better shmireh at the door would've avoided this major bizoyen for them, they say. This is an unforgivable crime, they say, and those responsible need to pay!

אולי יש לומר בדרך אפשר that what bothers them most is the end of legacy of Reb Lazer Vaboylniker. After all, many, many people see his split from the Agudah - which they see as solely based on the AI in Israel not distancing itself from Lubavitch that time - as his greatest accomplishment. To them building the Shas party and setting policy in Israel has no real meaning, only bashing Chabadskers is really important - as far as his public life is concerned. Once in a while, if really necessary to win an argument with a Chabadsker or a Gerrer, they might point to askonus and inyonei haKlal, but for the most part it's the fact that he "stood up" to Chabad despite it not being popular (huh?) and despite the fact that nobody else would do it. So if a few short years later Chabad is welcome in the homes of Roshei Yeshiva blocks from his home then the legacy is dead. You might look at this meeting and say that Chabad is no longer a threat since Gimmel Tammuz, and you may not get an argument from many people - even Lubavitchers, but that's only because since the Rebbe's passing people are no longer afraid that he'll "farchap" their kids like in the old days. However, the zealots are still just as opposed to the Rebbe and Chabad as ever before, so in that sense nothing has really changed, and the fact that these two elderly yidden met cannot be underestimated.



What "gets me" is how people will do anything to find an excuse for this meeting, ranging to "the anshei HaBayis were asleep on the job, to "Reb Aron Leib is an Ohev Yisroel - he was never a kanoi - and would allow the biggest Rosho to enter his house" to "Chabad is no longer a threat," something even some Lubavitchers would say. Reb Yoel symbolizes the Rebbe to the outside of Chabad world; he's the one that makes it happen and accessible to them. I would say that they're - the zealots, that is - reading this all wrong; somebody needs to give the Bnei Berakkers a lesson in public relations. Here they have this golden opportunity of showing the world that even the Lubavitchers recognize that the true Gedolei Yisroel are in their camp, and that the world Jewry is dependent on them and their daas, and they blow it! Instead of hemming and hawing and trying to find a good excuse they need to raise the flag of victory and sing "Didan Notzach!" That would beat the Lubavitchers at their own "game" and make them come out looking like winners.

91 comments:

stokholm said...

Nobody in the Yeshiva world made a big deal out of this.Only you.You feel threatened.Koyodua the vort of the Baal Shem Tov:Kol hanegoim odo roeh chutz etc.
You "quote" all the non existing zealots and really mean yourself.You are bothered.You are aus kapelutsch macher.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

that's Stockholm, you ________

Benny said...

Wonderful news, hopefully the fact that a representative of Chabad met with a Litvishe Godol especially one who is part of Degel HaTorah represents a segment of Chabad who wish to come back to reality and rejoin the Heimishe world

Not Brisk said...

Why did Reb Ahron Leib ask him to 'zug epes'?

Mottel said...

You seem to repeat yourself twice in the post with "You might look at this meeting and say that Chabad is no longer a threat since Gimmel Tammuz" line

SDR said...

The end of an era? I don't think so. As long as the oilem @ 770 waves flags and sings Yechi it will not be a new era. Until there is some semblance of normalcy in Chabad there will be no new era. So long as "choshuve" shluchim proclaim that Rav Ahron Kotler killed chassidishe bochurim in Shangchai there will be no new era.

It's like a good friend of mine told me, there are moshichistim and there are marranos. Until this perception changes there will be no new era.

snag said...

Yaser keyach for der greyser stickel fun teyras hassidus likoved rosh hashoneh.

I would like to know if RALS knew the background of his guest thoroughly, just vaguely, or maybe not at all. If RALS didn't know who he was dealing with, one of the main voices proclaiming the Messiahship of the late Rebbe, etc., there goes your 'tayreh'. So I wouldn't get too excited.

Sounds like a typical Lubavitcher publicity stunt. Take advantage of an alter Yid and use his prestige by having him photographed with a controversial person he is not familiar with.

P.S. What is going on, I see der LI shliach R. Anchelle Perl is having a latke eating contest. Is it Hassidus to promote fressing, bizoyon aychlin, and unhealthy eating? What is he going to do next? Have a vodka drinking contest?

Bichlal, it is a hard time now for anash. Reb Sholem Mordechai, Lev Leviev, Shaya Boymelgreen, trial in Brooklyn with Lubavitchers facing off in court....What is going on???? You guys should have some introspection on your rosh hashoneh now.

Anonymous said...

Nebach R' Yoel betrayed you. Did you listen to the audio, and notice RAL had no clue who Yoel is? Do it hit you how far Chabad is off the Frum map? Who do you think wanted this visit? Some people in chabad are finally realizing it's time to rejoin klal yisroel. Obviously you aren't one of them. Reb Lazer is shepping nachas Yoel finally came around. However your Rebbe on the other hand...

lakewooder said...

As a toishuv Lakewood i could tell you that there is no more disrespected reviled man then the chabadsker in this town.And no amount of meetings between R A.L. and R Y Kahan [who btw 90% of the oilum in lkwd never heard of] is changing that.Ask the avg. yungerman in lkwd. abt the rebbe and the universal answer will be is that he's a koifur and and a kal. Call it brainwashing call it

whatever you want but these are the facts!

Anonymous said...

Lakewooder
So your message is that Lakewood is a town that isn"t chas vesholem makabel moras of Daas Torah? Please dont brush the worlds biggest torah town with one swish like that,I would rather say the opposite, only 10 percent is not botul to daas torah of our Gedolim.

Mottel said...

A shame you have to let crap like this from such feeble-minded boors go up on Yud Tes Kislev. L'shono tova b'limud hachasidus u'bdarkei hachassidus t'koseiv v's'chaseim.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Mottel

how else would you know why a Misnaged is a dovor mezuhem if not from this blog? You'd just have to take some mashpia's word for it. Now you have actual proof...

Mottel said...

Point taken.
In Nevel a Misnagid once came to town - Anash wanted him to stay for awhile so that they could show their children an echte misnagid!

lakewooder said...

Tzig do you think what i said abt the litvisher velt's stance on the rebbe is not true?As to the torah world and daas torah 1-unless i missed it when did R A.L say anything positive abt the rebbe or chabad for that matter. 2-R.A.L althouge he is very respected in the oilam hatorah he is nowhere near the universal and total respect and love commanded by the vaboilniker maran z"atzal so he would never have the stature to overturn the main piece of policy pushed by R Shach throughout his life.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Lakewooder

I'm not sure if the numbers are as bad as you put it, but if they are then och un vei af zei... It seems like you could sell these guys lots of bridges too. Meileh if Lubavitcher Amiratzim believe all kinds of things, that we can understand. But Bnei Teyreh?! didn't all that hurreven in teyreh do anything to sharpen their minds???

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

as far as Reb Aron Leib not being as big or whatever; That's only cuz he didn't preach divisiveness half of his life like the Vaboylniker did,

stokholm said...

"how else would you know why a Misnaged is a dovor mezuhem if not from this blog?"

Ooh! I feel the "ahavas yisroel vibe"!


How would you know that a Misnaged is a dovor mezuhom?.Simple you'd learn what the Rayyat'z said about 'them'."Ehr frest zech on'et a por blatt gemureh, oon ess shtink fin ehm arba meois mil".
Or you'd read this blog and see what stokholm syndrome addicts (yes, with a small "s") say about people who disagree with them.

stokholm said...

"That's only cuz he didn't preach divisiveness half of his life like the Vaboylniker did,"

Big mouth.You want some quotes from your guys??
Big Tawker

Anonymous said...

shalom mordche is off ur radar so fast?!

from a pinned post to get knocked down by ferdishe hergeishim?!

Anonymous said...

growing up it litvishe yeshivos i never heard a word about chabadniks, however my chabadnik friends tell me half of what their rebbe'im talk about is misnagdim. you tell me who's obsessed with divisiveness.

who's the on who said
"They have lee (ave) hughes (ave) division (ave), yeshush, machlokes. we have kingston (ave) president (st) crown (st) union (st), malchos and achdus"?

Zev said...

as a Lubavitcher and a Shliach the misnagdim are right on. Who gives a hoot where Reb Yoel went to visit and make inroads. Are we so desperate for acceptance that we make such a big deal over such a picture.


The Rebbe always took the high road and for good reason. That should be our example.

First we need to fix the problems within and its not about Moshiach its about the perverted leadership we now have. Once Shluchim get the courage to stand up to the corrupt system that is holding them down Moshiach will be here and all the yidden will venohoru ailov Kol ha.....

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"I'm not sure if the numbers are as bad as you put it, but if they are then och un vei af zei... It seems like you could sell these guys lots of bridges too. "

I dont know a bout that. 99% of what comes out of Chabad has Messichest overtones. So you really cant blame average Lakewooder (who really doesn’t spend too much time thinking about Chabad) for assuming that all Lubavitchers are Mesachists. I was shocked when a Lubavitcher friend of mine told me that “ The Rebbe Zatzal IS NOT GOING TO BE MOSIACH”.

Anonymous said...

"preach divisiveness half of his life"

Which half? I'm sure it's his fault too that RAK was spoken about the way he was, and the CI was spoken about the way he was.

Cal shliach said...

Zev,
You cannot expect Hirshel to take the "high road" like the Rebbe did and I'm sure you you do.Why? Well, he never got to be chosen as a "shliach",hence he has to prove "hiskashres" credentials.There are two ways for that:One is to follow the Rebbes horo'os with learning nigleh and chasidus and trying to be mekarev yidden and be a rodef sholom.The other way is to be divisive, call names and "boast" how special one is and how terrible every one else is,including shlichim who don't tow Hirshels line are.
Umesaymim betov

Zev said...

Cal guy,

I did not mean to put Hirshel down with my comment. These pictures were displayed on all the other Chabad sites, the ones who are not Hirshels, where qvelling quite a bit over these pictures.

Today is 19 Kislev no reason to be swiping away at Hirshel, WE should be seeking on this Holy day for answers to our prolonged golus.

My solution, I already mentioned, put in leaders who are ohev sholom veroidef sholom.

Lakewooder said...

tzig R Shach is held in far greater reverance then R A.L 1- because he was from the previous generation which in our world still counts for something.2-The gedoilim of the generation before his i.e the Brisker Rav the C.I. and R Isser Zalmen were the main ones that pushed R Shach to the forefront into a leadership position.3- He was obviously much greater in learning. 4- The Steipler Goan who was his contemporary and was considered a shave bishave to R Shach was R shachs biggest chossid something whose importance cannot be overlooked.[and something that R.A.L does not have from R Elyashiv].5-finally R Shachs position as RY an Ponivizh the harvard of yeshivos gave him a automatic stature as a leader of the yeshiva world [something R A L doesnt have as a RY of a mesivta]. As to R Shach being revered because of divisive politics thats just typical chabad farbissinkeit.

duvy said...

"WE should be seeking on this Holy day for answers to our prolonged golus. "

Holy day??
Holiest day on the Lubavitcher calendar!
Yechi.
They have new mitzov,nev aveiros new yomim tovim.
Wonderful.
New religion?
I guess

Mottel said...

Yes Duvy, we have 'new' yom tovim and chayus in yiddishleit - unlike you and your ilk that have the same farshtunkine ta'anos for the past 200 years - despite your gedolim saying that your questions are pointless and false.

duvy said...

Mottel,
Respectfully now, what are your exact "credentials"?
Let me be honest here.You are one of the most irritating posters on this Chabad blog.You "prav" ownership,you act as you are the boss, while being a young,two years post Oholei Torah grad.A small glimpse in the blogs you are involved shows up your "youth" (I'm using a nice word for other more accurate descirptions).
What are your credentials in nigleh,chassidus,doing?

duvy said...

For all the chayus in yiddishkait that Lubavitch has.Maybe,has, that is.The vast majority of Lubavitcher through the generations "freyed out"
Of the Tzemach Tzedeks 6 hundred thousand chasidim (true it was an exaggeration.Still)very few remained after a few generations.Even though the bulk of Russian Jewry survived the holcaust,Lubavitch in the early years,and still today were a tiny minority compared to the oilom hayeshivos.Despite massive campaigns to win over BValey teshuva and yeshivaleit.

Yeruchem said...

hahahahahaha

thanks for the good laugh about the so-called "Olam HaYeshivos."

How many Yeshiva bachurim were there in 1946 in the world, you fool!

do the math and get back to me, if you won't bury yourself from shame first

snag said...

How is it shayach that Dmitri lost the fight on the chag hageulah?

What is going on with anash? Shaya Baymelgreen, Lev Leviev, Sholem Mordche, trial going on now in Bklyn, Dimitri, etc.? A cheshben hanefesh is needed.

Anonymous said...

"What is going on with anash?"

It's the Geula dummy, וְהַאֲבַדְתִּי חֲכָמִים מֵאֱדוֹם

Anonymous said...

Lakewooder,
Whats happening today in Ponovezh tells us a total different picture then you are trying to portray,
the majority of the litvish establishment, is against the Shach fringe renegades, all the terror tactics of their Rebbe is backfiring, they were by a wedding last week throwing food leftovers on Reb Chaim,Also dont sell me your nonsense that Shach was groomed by brisker Rov and the CI as the manhig, the Brisker Rov spoke with him in learning as he he did with many other talmidie chachomim, the Strikover, Chechik, Rav Paler of Ny was his Talmid Muvhak,I think that RAL was more Ben Bayis by the CI then Shach, so stop with your nonsense, you can keep the hate message and put it in your will for your kinderlech,

Anonymous said...

Twistle
" 99% of what comes out of Chabad has Messichest overtones "

is the Chassidus Mevueres series also Messianic? I didnt find any traces yet, I followed this year a few Yud Tes Kislevs Farbrengens and unfortunatly the word Moshiach was mentioned too little, since Mochiach is still a major part of the Jewish Faith

Anonymous said...

Where is your "Gut Yom Tov" entry? Following your blog, especially on yoma d'pagra, it never fails to make me wonder where you are on auspicious Chassidishe yomim tovim? Your writing is interesting, but you aren't using the blog for the purpose that blogs were crerated for in the first place- hafotzas hamaayoneis. It is especially outstanding on a two day yt like Chag HaGeulah.

Moshiach NOW!

duvy said...

Yeruchem,
I see I made you laugh but I'm not sure why.Therefore I'm going to copy what you wrote and ask what about it disturbs you so

"thanks for the good laugh about the so-called "Olam HaYeshivos." "

Why is the Olom Hayeshivos "so called"?
Are not yeshivas Such as Lakewood,The Mir,Brisk, Olom Hayeshivos?

"How many Yeshiva bachurim were there in 1946 in the world, you fool!"

I don't know how many yeshiva bochurim there were than exactly, but I believe that Ben Gurion released from army service a few years later about 400 boys, who were of army service age in Eretz Yisroel at the time.But what was your point?If your point was about the size of olom hayeshivos:Well,you see I pointed out that Russian Jewry was much LESS affected by the WAR.The Olom Hayeshivos of Poland and Lithuania was decimated.Still, though Lubavitch was a group that was very big and powerful in Russia going back to the time of the Tzemach Tzedek who passed away in 1866,still Lubavitch was a much smaller group than olom hayeshivos.WHY?Because they freyed out, just like in other communities.
Hey, how many frum Schneersons do you know?Where are they all?

So, the claim that Lubavitch was growing while the Misnagdim were vanishing is plain Lubavitcher hagiography,a myth.A yeshiva like Slabodka did much more to further yiddishkait across the world than Lubavitch, which was many times as big

orthodoxjew said...

maybe more chabadtzkeh will return to the fold now that ryk went to ral

Anonymous said...

Duvy
how many Shach and Abramsky einiklech do you know that are frum?
what a idiot you are

Anonymous said...

how many of Reb Yisroel Salanter's eyniklach are frum?

how many of Reb Isser Zalman's eyniklach were charedi?

what about Reb Shimon Shkop?

Anonymous said...

Duvy
did Eliach the benai torah historian, invent already some fictional misnagdic network of chadorim, mikvoas, shochtimin in the USSR era?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Duvy

maybe tell us how many Yeshiva bachurim there were pre-WW2? from how many Litvishe Jews?

a few thousands from over a Million? and you call that success???

duvy said...

"a few thousands from over a Million? and you call that success???"

Lithuania had about 100 thousand Jews, almost all perished by the hand of the Nazis.
Poland had non Chasidic Jews,not quite sure of the numbers.Amongst Lithuanian Jewry there were chasidic groups such as Lubavitch,Karlin,Slonim etc

duvy said...

"how many of Reb Yisroel Salanter's eyniklach are frum?"

Don't know.Think some are Chabd and live in Kfar Chabad.Lipkin

"how many of Reb Isser Zalman's eyniklach were charedi?"

Many

"how many Shach and Abramsky einiklech do you know that are frum?"

Rav Abramsky has many choshuveh grandchildren.Rav Shach had a son and daughter.The son is modern and I think he has a son,who may not be frum and a daughter who is.His son in law R'Bergman has a large brood of choshuveh kids and grandkids

duvy said...

Pre War a small percentage went to yeshivos.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Lithuania is not just what was called "Lithuania" at the end of WW2. If that's the case then Brisk and Mir and Radin and Baranovitch and Grodno were also not Lithuania. We're talking areas that the people there would consider themselves. That area was way more than 100k. A lot closer to a Million, if not much more

I must admit, you're very good at "answering" the "questions" that get posed to you; as if this was some kind of trivia show. The fact that there were only a few thousand Yeshiva Bochurim at the outset of WW2 shows you how successful the "system" there was. So please address the POINT that is being made to you

duvy said...

Look what Slabodka Yeshiva did in America.
Chofetz Chaim with its many branches and talmidim.
Ner Yisroel
Lakewood.
Chaim Berlin.
Basically the foundation of Orthodoxy in America.Torah Vodaas also had Slabokian influences, but was mostly built through R'Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz.
Same thing in Eretz Yisroel.
What did Lubavitch do in America?
Zero.Though there were many immigrants with a Lubavitch backround who had come to America and had opened Nusach Ari shuls.
Until 1940, when somebody came to a already built up base for Torah and supposedly claimed "America iz nisht andersh"

duvy said...

Hirshaleh,
Didn't I say that in Poland there were also Litvishe Jews? I said I don't know the numbers.For example Brisk, had a large chasidic backround

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

so now we're going from Europe to America? what did all those yeshivos accomplish for the hundreds of thousands of Jews they could've helped?

hellooooooooo

duvy said...

"so now we're going from Europe to America? what did all those yeshivos accomplish for the hundreds of thousands of Jews they could've helped?"

What did Chabad do for all the millions they could have helped??

Please don't be silly.Most people leaving the path were not interested in what the yeshivos or Chabad had to say.The times were times of turmoil, the Jews were not "tinokos shenishbus" they were from traditional backrounds.

What I trying to say is that Chasidus did not save Eastern European Jewry and much more glaringly, Chabad that claim to be the "real" toras Habesh't did not even save themselves or their banshakim.

Yeshivos, here and in Europe did save what could have been saved.

duvy said...

Chasidus:What did it do for Klal Yisroel??
Well,
Satmar vs Satmar vs Bnei Yoel
Vizhnitz vs Vizhnitz
Bobov vs Bobov
Klausenburg vs Klausenberg
Etc
etc.
Also, very "importantly" it polluted Williamsburg,Boro Park etc with a bunch of leidiggayers aka Banshakim, unemployed and running around with gebleemteh chalaten and shvartzeh zocken, vahl der zaideh iz geveyn an am houretz in a derfel in interland.

The difference between the Chasidic way and the Misnagdic way was that a teacher,Rosh Yeshiva had to prove his mettle, by the chasidim it was enough that five generations earlier there was a voiler yid in the family

Anonymous said...

In lita talmidim harei haim kibanim, children never mattered, look at reb yisroel.

You want a good reason for that? No need to invent a moshiach when someone is childless and his relatives a frei.

"did Eliach the benai torah historian, invent already some fictional misnagdic network of chadorim, mikvoas, shochtimin in the USSR era?"

novardock?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

In lita talmidim harei haim kibanim, children never mattered, look at reb yisroel

I love that after the fact bubbe maaseh. It's a good one. Tell that to the BRISKERS

Novardock packed up and left the USSR when the going got rough. Poland is where they did their work.

duvy said...

The above poster mentioned Novardock.
Novardock had a network of yeshivos and mechinos throughout Poland with about 4 thousand talmidim.These yeshivos were built up by sending shluchim to attract the local youth to a yeshiva.Apparently this was a succesful method that Lubavitch copied later on

duvy said...

"Novardock packed up and left the USSR when the going got rough."

Do I detect critiscm, here?

Cuz I want to know where a certain individual was "when the going got rough" in Russia and later when it got "rough" in Warsaw??

*think*before you criticize others

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

we're talking about spiritual danger, not physical,

duvy said...

"Tell that to the BRISKERS"
What are you saying? If someone is on the stature to take over from their father they should not be allowed??
Someone is not parroting their Rambam often enough.

Do you think that R'Chaim Brisker was not "rouy" to take over his father the Bais Haleivy?Do you think the Brisker Rov, was not rouy to take over from R'Chaim?
Do you think the Brisker Rovs sons were not rouy??

duvy said...

"we're talking about spiritual danger, not physical"

Don't understand.Can you elaborate?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

mit amohl farshteit er nisht....

by the way, the only way your Slabodka Talmidim in America had talmidim for their Yeshivos was from the children of those fargrebte Interlanders you mock. So please.

duvy said...

Btw Hirshel,
What is this meshigas to ship R'Yoel around to all kinds of rabbonim, take pictures and tape the conversations?
To me it's a positive,in that it shows Lubavitch have realized that they have gotten so far apart from Heimishe yidden that they have to show that they have something in common.
Interesting to see that for the photo ops they sent to chasidishe looking yingerleit with levush and peyos to accompany him.Vechter and Shapiro .It's a pity that Vechter doesn't realize that when a heimishe person sees his long hair, he does not feel that Vechter rose up in dargas since he joined Lubavitch

dovy said...

"mit amohl farshteit er nisht...."

Actually,I really did not get your point.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

the BR was, but we're talking the whole "Beis Brisk" they built up, where every Solovejczyk is automatically a genius!

as far as Reb Yoel goes; he wants to "sell" Chassidus, what's wrong with that? why is that any worse than sucking up to the grobbe Boro Park and Flatbush baaleibatim in a "Shabbos Lakewood?"

The hair comment about Vechter is just stupid, so we'll leave it unanswered.

duvy said...

"where every Solovejczyk is automatically a genius!"

Totally, not true! So against the grain of Brisk!

Btw, I hope you are not playing the Chbdsker game (or maybe they are totally ignorant about these things)and calling R'Ahron and R'JB Soloveichik "Brisk".I have nothing pro or against them, but in Olom Hayeshivos when they say "Brisk" that don't mean the yeshiva in Chicago that Turin the yechinik attended.


"The hair comment about Vechter is just stupid, so we'll leave it unanswered."

Why is it so stupid?.I think his long hair past nisht far a chasidishe yid with peyos.I really do

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I'm talking the Holy and True Brisk of Jerusalem, not chas vesholom those of America. Not even Reb Simcha.

again, the hair comment is stupid.

Anonymous said...

Duvy
"but was mostly built through R'Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz "
as far as I know he was hungarian chassidish and graduated to Chabad and Polish, their was no lita in his veins

Anonymous said...

Duvy,
" to ship R'Yoel around to all kinds of rabbonim,"

Reb Yoel is B"H fine and is not being shipped by no one, he handles his affairs by his own with no handlers.

duvy said...

"Reb Yoel is B"H fine and is not being shipped by no one, he handles his affairs by his own with no handlers."

I know R'Yoel quite well and he is being shipped around by "handlers".I'm quite sure he has no interest in this circus.He has been told that it's good for hafotzas hamaayonos and is being handled by the p.r dep

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I think if anybody is being handled it's RYSE and RALS. RYK lives by himself; he has no house people.

Anonymous said...

Duvy
Obviously you don't know Reb Yoel, he is not naive,and I don't think that going to Gedolim is a circus,

duvy said...

"RYK lives by himself; he has no house people."
True, he has no house people and no airs, but on this trip and at other times he is being "shown off" it is not on his own volition.
Listen,I think it's a positive, maybe we''ll be able to get Chabad, the normal Chabad,I mean back into the fold.The meshugoiyem and Meshichisten can go to Vilednik or stay where they are, kamaseh hoyodush

duvy said...

"as far as I know he was hungarian chassidish and graduated to Chabad and Polish, their was no lita in his veins"
Anon 5:45,
R'Shraga Feivel was an Ish Hashkolos,I didn't claim Lita in his veins,I meant the Yeshiva had Roshei Yeshiva from Slabodka such as R'Dovid Leibowitz founder of Chofetz Chaim and R'Yaakow Kaminetzky, after R'Shraga feive; paased away i believe

duvy said...

I went to R'Yoels shiurim for a long time.I bet I know him a lot better than you do

Anonymous said...

Duvy
"Do you think the Brisker Rovs sons were not rouy "
I definitely think that Brisker rov son are not Royi to carry the mantle of brisk,not Reb Berel and Reb Dovid, they are talmidie chachomim but no originality what so ever.

Anonymous said...

Duvy
" Chasidus did not save Eastern European Jewry and much more glaringly "

You are correct that European Jewry was not saved, since the majority did go off the derech in Pland and Hungary, I am not talking about the USSR that had a sophisticated gzeires shmad machine, much worse then Spain, But their is no question that the Hiefele Erliche Yiden were all in the chassidic camp, even in Oiberland Hungary.

duvy said...

" But their is no question that the Hiefele Erliche Yiden were all in the chassidic camp, even in Oiberland Hungary."

Sure.
Guy, you are funny.You will not even take a name, yet you make grandiose proclamations based on the chulent you ate on shabbos.
Grow up, we're trying to have an adult discission here

Anonymous said...

Duvy
can you answer, or do name calling?
would you like by Poland , Galicia, Romania? Hungary? Chech?

Anonymous said...

Duvy
"Novardock had a network of yeshivos and mechinos throughout Poland with about 4 thousand talmidim"
are you sure the number was four thousand? where is Schneur when we need him most? did you read it someplace? or your Bube told you? my gut feeling tells me it was close to 400 and its also alot, since no other yeshiva in poland was that big

duvy said...

Ask Hirshel how many talmidim there were in Novardock,k?

Anonymous said...

Where are the thousands of kapust and babrusk chasidim?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

The answer is very simple:

the rebbe rashab was the one that realized that the only way to counter all the upcoming storms was to take the young bachurim and mold them into mesiras nefesh machines. And he did. And that's what saved them and many others and allowed for the rebirth of Soviet Jewry.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
the idiots on this blog are growing by leaps and bounds, dont they know that it was a ruthless communist regime for 70 odd years

Duvy
Is Hirshel the navardoker official historian?

duvy said...

"Duvy
Is Hirshel the navardoker official historian?"

Did I say he was?

Anybody who knows any History before the War knows that Novardok was a powerful force with many yeshivos and mechinos throughout Poland.
You don't.
I guess you are showing your Lubavitcher credentials

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Duvy

we were discussing whether or not the 4000 number you threw out there was correct or even close. I do not know the number. Were they a bigger influence than say Radomsk or Bobov with theirnetwork of Yeshivos?

duvy said...

In my opinion Novardok was a bigger influence than Bobov and Radomsk.Novardok was an outreach yeshiva that reached out to many bochrim who would not have ended up in yeshiva.

DUVY said...

After the Bolshevik takeover of Russia, the Alter ordered his students to cross the border into Poland. Many of the students were shot in the attempt; others were sent to Siberian prison camps, but six hundred made it across the border. Novardok yeshiva was re-established in Białystok under the leadership of the Alter's son-in-law, Rabbi Avraham Yoffen, it soon became the center of an entire movement. Following the doctrine of "springs flowing outward", in a few years Novardok established yeshivas all over the region, in major cities such as Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa Kherson, Nizhny Novgorod, Rostov-on-Don, Zhitomir, Berdichev, Tsaritsyn, Saratov, Plogid, Chernigov, Pinsk, Cherson, Mogilev, Kamieniec-Podolski, Nikolaev, Bălţi and Od.
The Novardok Philosophy

DUVY said...

An extension of Novardok's unconventional approach entailed the establishment of numeroues branches of the yeshiva. The most elite students of the yeshiva would set out on foot to strange communities without a penny in their pockets, simultaneously abstaining from speech and not asking for a ride or even food. Upon reaching a town, they would enter the Beth Midrash, and without a word to anyone, study Torah.

With this method, Novardok established in Poland alone no less than seventy yeshivas of varying sizes. Dispatched from the yeshiva base in Białystok, teams would investigate towns and cities and evaluate their suitability for a yeshiva. The extensive Novardok network supplied half of all the students to Eastern Europe's other famous yeshivas.
Army Service

LikeWhatever said...

I once heard from an Elder Chossid "Novarodok iz geven di Bresslev fun di Litte"

Novarodok were definitly a cut above the rest. they cannot be included in the general "litvak Image"

LikeWhatever said...

During the early communist Russian rule Chabad, Breslev and Novarodok held out the longest.

Why can't anyone here on this Blog call a spade a spade and admit that both Chabad AND Novorodok were real jews?
Cmon Duvy and Hirshel Only one side can win? Every issue gotta be cut throat?

shelo asani charedi said...

LikeWhatever: Apparently when people where all black in the summer their brains tend to overheat and they decide that anyone with a slightly different hat is oys yid.

duvy: And Rav Chaims grandson through Rav Moshe?

schneur said...

Fantastic , Lithuanian Jews can be united again. As I have been writing Chabad's mahus and genetic origin is Lita, (the baal haTanya was called R. Zalman Litvack) I am certain that Rav Steinman and Reb (gadol maRabban shmeh) Yoel shlita understood each othr speak the same Yidish dialect and have the same mahus general mantality interested in matters of the mind not in vacations in the Austrian Alps and gabboim etc). I wonder does reb Yoel have more in common with the litvishe gedolim or with men in silver robes with peyos down to their chins dancing all the time and giving out garlic. Of course the chagas people have their derech , but thats was not the mahus of Lita and thats why the Alter Rebbe created Chassidus Chabad.
I know the answer and every Jew in White Russia knew the answer.
Its time for both Chabad and the yeshivas to redsicover their Litvishe origins and take it from there.
I hope both Chabad and the Yeshiva world build from this meeting and the needless hate and resentment stop and both sides accord each otehr mutual respect.
Now we can hope for the final meeting before mashiach R. Zalman leib meeting Rabbi Aaron perhaps in 770 ?

Anonymous said...

Keep posting stuff like this i really like it