Fech! Some kevod Hatorah!How low can a chosid sink, if you don't live by the shilchon Urich "hut men aza poonim"
Hirshel, I'm making a direct quote:"וויזוי קען מען מאכען אן עק צו די אומ"פראוואוקט"ע אטאקעס?"yeah, you really wrote that.
Way out. He looks like he's got a Chazon Ish's shiur for sure.
Yosef,Provocations against "enemies" are allowed even incumbent on this guy, in fact this his mission statement: "The purpose of this blog was to provide a counter opinion to the Chabad bashing that is so prevalent in blogosphere. I hope I've accomplished that objective."I'm not sure where he sees all the "Chabad bashing", the Yeshivishe sites, such as The Yeshiva World,Matzav.com and Vozizneias do not bash Chabad,in fact they are quite open to Chabad (although,they are NOT Chabad sites a distinction some Lubavitchers don't get.Basically it means,dear Lubavitchers, that if you want a web site to promote Chabad views and be accepting of ALL that Chabad do, go to a Chabad site!)HOWEVER,the Chabad sites such as COL and Shturem have a very antagonistic approach against "enemies" and the comment allowed thru the moderation are unbelievable.Small example:Shturem had the chitzpeh to write that Lipa, who wrote an very moving song "a letter to Moishaleh" about the surviving child from Mumbai, was trying to "profit" from it??!!They did not ask before they printed it, and in fact the exact opposite was true,Lipa was being "hit up" for undeserved money.(whoever does not know,Lipa is one of nicest most generous guys in the biz,volunteering all the time for Mekimi, that visits cholim in hospitals).Bottom line if a non Jewish site would post the same pic of a Jew with peyos it would be called anti-semitic, when A Lubavitcher does it it's called "providing a counterbalance to Chabad bashing"
this anti semetic post is simalur to what we saw pre world war 2
HirshelThis is no diferent then the triangle dents steamed into the $200 borsalino's. You can't make one sided attacks. You lose credibility when you take such cheap shots.
Aderaba post a picture of some chabad extreme chitzoniyos like the Zeideneh gartel trailing on the floor together with the jumbo peyos and bash the general chitzoniyos prevelant ALL OVER
what makes it anti-Semitic? I think what he's doing is a bit much.
I'm a Lubavitcher, and I am sickened by this post!!I don't agree with it at all!
MichelDon't side with the Menagdim
"This is no diferent then the triangle dents steamed into the $200 borsalino's. You can't make one sided attacks."How's about $200 Borsalino's perching precariously on the back of the head with the brim up.I assume that it's done that way to show of one's chup.
Pardon.It should have been anon3
Anon 7I got No problem as long as attacks are fair play. If Tzig would post a pic of Steamed Tzeilim hat and side by side a Pic of elevated hat perched on chup then I'm all for it. But to take a shot on Bnei Beraq oversized sidelocks and to ignore the overgrown unkempt Lubab Hippy Hair. Is a cheap shot not becoming of our Tzig. I say fair play.
I don't know about that, an OTD yekke had wilder peyos than either Rabbi Deutsch or any Brisker you care to name.
"Is a cheap shot not becoming of our Tzig. "You say that based upon what exactly?How long have you been on the blog,two weeks?"I say fair play"This blog is a tool to encourage people to becoming Lubavitch.
"Is a cheap shot not becoming of our Tzig. "You say that based upon what exactly?How long have you been on the blog,two weeks?"I say fair play"This blog is a tool to encourage people to becoming Lubavitch."The above idiocy was not posted by me but by some roach that just crept out of the woodwork.
Anon3 Nope.I'm around for years. I just never commented. And from the way its going I'm gonna stop pretty soon. If this blog is a tool toward making people lubavich then its a dismal failure. And it should be. There's no point in anyone converting to any other religion. What it is (or rather what it should be) is a vehicle to put things into perspective. There is maalos in chabad, there is Maalos in the Heimishe velt. AND there is loads of crap in both.So if The Tzig would stick to the agenda of portraying the fallacies in both vs the Positive in both the Oilem 'Might' take all the garbage politics with a grain of salt. And actually be open to new ideas. BUT its these types of cheap one sided posts that shoot The Tzig bloody in his own leg!Its a pity. There's no sane religious voice in the Blogospere.
Whats is the Massorah of this style of payoth. Its clearly not Chassidic or yerushalmi. Given his last name its also not oberland nor marmorasher style. Its also not Litvishe . Did the Chazon Ish , the Brisker rav Reb Chaim Ozer, Reb Yitzchak Elchonon , have this style No gagain , so whats the Massorah here ?
Its either Pro Chabad, Anti Chabad,Pro Yeshivish, Heimish,Or Anti Religious. Of course there's loads of the "Evrything is good don't insult anyone"sites as well.I have hope in Tzig's cause. He's pretty much been around the Hungarian Chabad block. He's also knowledgble on the oilem hayeshivos as well as the MO a bit.So if Tig would trancend his current Chabad Label and post Objective views then we would have a gevaldige Kremel for all the Been-Around-The-Block Oilem. Hirshel Wake Up! Grow up!
"If Tzig would post a pic of Steamed Tzeilim hat"Better on the head then in the head.
Tzig is just jealous that Chabadzkers don't have peyos
Tzig Tzig. Don't ignore the ire of your flock.They might stop drinking your milk, and you'll get an infection
Who cares that reb Osher is a first class talmid chacham, a great manhig, has 100s (if not 1000s) of talmidim, and is one of the pillars of the Torah world?His payes are too long and bushy for Tzig, so lets make fun of him.
If Chabad doesn't do payos, payos are automatically pasul, hence the bigger they are the more pasul in tpig's eyes."Payos? Feh, that's like sleeping in a סוכה. A נבל ברשות התורה"
Chabad looks at big peyos as Ushpizin and kenen lehren like noy succah. Publicity the look at like not sleeping in the succah
a bisel payes shteched in de aygen...too much payos can't be worse than made up pirsumei nisah...
what is all this nonsense name calling"Antisemtes" etc..it is a new phonemonon in the yeshivesher velt, he has no mesorah for that, his oberlander heritage didnt give him that wils bush on his head, they were all beshidene aideler mentchen, they were never in the face, as his peyos screams, also his nu Rebbes of Bena Berak didn't have these peyos neither, so where exactly is this from? it is some form of exhibitionism going on in certain circles for people that their great Chidushim in Torah didn't deliver the crowds with attention that comes with it,
"Payos? Feh, that's like sleeping in a סוכה. A נבל ברשות התורה"Beautiful comment!Avremel,Regarding his mission statement. He's just trying to act victimized so as to validate his attacks as purely defensive.Regardless, a counter opinion to bashing is coherent refutation, not bashing in response.Anyway, whenever anyone write something that remotely disagrees with Lubab theo, or if it simply doesn't mention them, Tzig will consider it, you know, "bashing". Like a Palestinian.
Chabad's hatred for Snags, especialy those with big sidelocks is rooted in their ideology. They are the chasidim rishonim that Reb Chaim Volozhner riled against that think it is better not to learn than to learn without the purest intentions, c"v. They want to be oyker mitzvas talmud torah, forget about succah. They look down at anyone who thinks in learning in their sleep. Someone like reb Yosel Engel who used to go with the grubber finger while he was sleeping is viewed as 'even when he sleeps he is full of yesh' by the odious, detestable, dispicable, repungant, nefarious, and repulsive members of the kat. It is no accident that Chabad yeshivas don't have any seforim in them. All the lumdus was written by people with yesh.
AnonWhat a piece of Crapit looks like your chanuka donuts were Alcohol infused
is everybody done yet?do I get a turn too?
"Chabad's hatred for Snags"why is Moron Markowitz not discussed? obviously its the wild bushy hair, not the Snag sheboi
No. You had your already, and you messed it up. Give up.
Simon"reb Osher is a first class talmid chacham, a great manhig,"why don't the Khanamans and Povarsky hire him ? if he is that great, obviously they know that he isn't First Class
There is little to feel bad for you anyway:
Chabad yeshivos have no sefarim in them?Whaaaaaat?I can't find Chidushei HaGriz because it is never on the shelf.
the peyos is a different color then the beardis it a maybe a farouk?
Hirshel,An appropiate moment for all good Circus Tent'ers to step back a few years and peruse this dittyhttp://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-inaction-brings.htmlculled from the archives. What goes around.....
i am a lubavitcher and I want to second what avre,el said ithink that the comments as well as some aticles ) on the ubavitch websites are a disgrace. not only it allws immature bochrim to attack anonymously good people for no reason and be oyver on ... maker es reehu basyser ( as the casewith Lipe Schmeltzer ) but also of mesira ( some comments were used against Rubashkin in court , some stupid articles turned governments against shluchim, policemen against jews etc etc ). rabonim around the world should give hashgoche on internet sites the way they do on butcher stores and anyone who doesnt want to be under the hashgoche of A ( ie any ) Rov should be boycotted by advertisrs etc
Anon 8:58" reb Yosel Engel who used to go with the grubber finger while he was sleeping is viewed as 'even when he sleeps he is full of yesh' I think its a waste to answer a ignorant"odious, detestable, dispicable, repungant, nefarious, and repulsive " human being,but maybe other friends of yours will learn something,The Rebbe in Likutie Shichos quotes more Reb Yosef Engel Seforim then any snag Yeshivesher sefer around,look in the Ried of Reb Shmuel and find a quote of reb Yossef Angel, I am not talking about Brisk they will never quote him their insulated arrogance is mindboggling,they just believe that 2 people out of Reb Chaim know how to learn, Minchas Chinuch and the Chasam Sofer, since reb chaim quotes them in his magnum opus
come on i learned in brisk on press street in jerusalem they learn from any sefer that rets tzum zach and is not written by a kofer anyways making fun of someones looks or dress is the lowest of the low thats how goyim attack jews in cartoons etc
Tzig,Its really a shame that you have gone "Kiderech Kol Haeeretz". you used to post beautiful letters, stories etc., but know I see the negativity in you, I was hoping you would over come it but I see I was wrong.....
I see how learned there....you didn't even get the name of the street correctly! which tells me you have trouble reading street signs. I have doubts about a blatt gemoroh....
HillelI'm sorry I disappointed you, but I don't think you see the whole picture here.
Tzig. IF you would just be a man you would admit fault and move on to a more positive post. We don't expect you to be more then Human, after all even Tzigalech can err. I guess the word was 'IF'. Oib mein babbe vult gehat reider. . .Tomir iz geven a yiddene.You can't change a Tzig. The milk has gone sour. Be Well.
wow. tough crowd.
What's the big deal here.This is not one of Tzig's most inspiring posts. But it's as innocent as any yeshiva banter: "Wow. Check out the mega-peyos on that one." with an implied side-order of "Where did he get the idea for that?" I think people are projecting a lot of Lub/Snag antipathy that might not be there.
BS"DHoichiach toichiach es amisecho..Good thing I went to a bris today and haven't been able to eat since the early afternoon. I would have breched all over the keyboard had I read this after eating dinner which is what I usually do at this hour.Nothing has changed. This site has become both an online Ponim Chadashois and the haimishe Failed Scotty squared. Even the one who is nisht azoy Shain is clearly a rambling semi-meshuggener and his verbiage does not have the hateful edge of this site. Tzig continues to post shtick after shtick of goat d**ck. The Rebbe told us not to respond even to real provocations and you know what I mean. The yeshivish sites spread far more ahavas yisroel than either this site or its closest competitor, The Failed One.Feh! The Rebbe does not need this kind of defence and you know this very well. Post real history and stay out of the cesspool.Otherwise, you can have a swimming race in the sewer with the Failed One, the Cows, and while you are at it, er ver is nisht azoy Shain.You can do a lot better and you know that! Stick to real history, get the anti out of your URL now that Tzemach is ancient history, and get out of the machloikes, LH and MSR cesspool. Chabad does not need this kind of nonsense. Our record speaks for itself and we don't need to disparage other Yidden.
Es iz doch a shaylo fun loi yilbash
"Brisk..insulated arrogance is mindboggling,they just believe that 2 people out of Reb Chaim know how to learn, Minchas Chinuch and the Chasam Sofer, since reb chaim quotes them in his magnum opus"Reb Chaim doesn't quote them, u igno-ramus (which rhymes with..)
"Chabad yeshivos have no sefarim in them?Whaaaaaat?I can't find Chidushei HaGriz because it is never on the shelf."no one else can't find it either. you have to find it with hesech hadaas. but you need daas to have hesech hadaas. I guess you will never find it. Fech. u can' learn the peace on Chanukah without learning the critque in Maran's sefer. if that shtickle convinces you and you can't lise 4 shverkeiten with it - you are in big trouble. But you are not capable of learning anything that is written in terse lagnuage- you need poetic stuff. Fech. ya know. Lubabs don't get caught speeding during Chanukah.... ya know why..
Tzig, post a picture of the Rogotchover and pour scorn on his peyos.
He peyos are like the Bais HaLevi's.
I'm sorry I don't find the comments on the peyos offensive. I notice that many in my family and others who I know when they went to learn in Lakewood or other such places its quite common for them to do the vilde payes thing. Its kind of funny. As for Reb Yosef Engel. I am surprised! He was a Chosid a Tzanzer chosid and quotes many chasidishe seforim as he does quote a lot of Kabalah. I have many of his seforim, and a write up of his bio.As for the Minchas Chinuch he was a chasid too and quotes chasidishe seforim IN the sefer. One such quote is from the sefer of the Be'er mayim chaim who wrote a polemical sefer in defense of Leshem Yichud against the Noda Beyehuda (who attacked Chasidim on this issue). its called "shaar hatfilah' check the back of the machon yerushalayim edition for the exact place. I shake my head on some of the ignorance displayed here sometimes. האט א גוטען חנוכה YOSEF 718
"As for the Minchas Chinuch he was a chasid too and quotes chasidishe seforim IN the sefer."What chosid was he???Me thinks you making this up Yos'lAt most he was not anto chasidic.Chasidim have been known to make hagiographic comments claiming the Chasam Sofer as on of "theirs" when he was anything but.The Rambam was a mekubel etc...
well without giving myself too much away I am named after him. I have had these kind of arguments [always with 'yeshivishe' guys who usually sport vilde payes of course] many times over about his personality, and any fair minded person would immediately admit that quoting a ספר הפולמוסagainst the נודע ביהודע (who is mentioned in the minchas chinuch numerous times)and that sefer is specifically written in defense against the famous statement of the N"B against chasidim and לשם יחוד where the N"B writes "צדיקים ילכו בם וחסידים יכשלו בם"For the M"C to quote שער התפלה is a hands down proof where he sympathies lay. He also quotes the דרך פקודיך and the נועם מגדים both chasidishe seforim. More importantly they were his contemporaries - more or less, wich is strange for such a great gaon to go out of his way to quote them. The M"C was a Brother in law בזוג"ר of the Tzanzer Rav and he refers to him in a letter as Admor. and also gave a haskama on a chasidish sefer called תוספות חיים from the Rebbe Chaim of Pistin who was a talmid of the Baal Hatanya and the first Kosover Rebbe. The Minchas Chinuch was also a son in law of בזו"ש of the Rebbe of Zabeltov who himself was a SIL of Rebbe Moshe Leib of Sasov. I heard myself of a very old einikel who lived in the east side - Reb Lipa Babad that his grandfather was the son of the M"C and he told me he was chasidish, wore all the שמונה בגדים of chasidim, shtriemel white socks etc. anyways קיין ליטוואק איז ער נישט געוועןואינני זוכר באם המנחת חינוך מזכיר הגאון מווילנא זצוקלה"ה אפילו פעם אחת והשם הטוב יכפר אם טעיתיyosef 718
Reb YosefQuoting a Sefer in Nigleh from a chosid is no proof that you are a chosid,the "דרך פקודיך" is quoted once in the Mishna Berura too, the only real sefer that gives you proof is the "נועם מגדים " Reb Yosef Engel wrote a sefer on Kabola that was printed by Rav Heller of CH from a Kesav Yad.it is not too famous.
Yoineh"The Rambam was a mekubel etc..."my friend this is no chassidic fabrication, it was discussed by many Rishonim as the Migdal Oiz, get your facts together before you bark, don't embarrass the Snag universe, they claim to be the "Benai Torah"
anonשער התפלה is not proof??Yosef 718
Where is it in the sefer?On whom side is he on that polemic?You probably know that even Reb Zorech Eidiletz was not on the same page on this with the Prager Rov, so it not the strong proof that can change minds
Anon 3.09"Reb Chaim doesn't quote them, u igno-ramus (which rhymes with..)"Chasam sofer, is in Hilchos Ishes 2-15Minchas Chinuch, is in Shemita Veyovel 9-6From your vast knowledge I have a feeling you learn in Brisk, can you please give us a update of Rav AJ chumas shiurim,who is in ? who is out?
Yosef 718Being that we are many generations off from the Minchas Chinuch your being an eynikel proves nothing about your yedios of him.Ve'aderaba.Most of the Ba'abads are Chasidish since that part of Poland became chasidish so they would have an inyan to claim that he also was chasidish.Just like the Chbdsker claim the Rambam was a mekubel, although he is the father of the Rationalists.Your "chap" that he may not mention the Gaon of Vilna is quite unusual of you, you know.Because ,usually not quoting the Gaon is more of a proof on the non quoter.However, what would probably be the answer was that the Gaons seforim were not printed when he wrote THE Minchas Chinuch.Derech agav, I don't think he quotes R'Akiva Eiger directly,maybe he quotes him from someone else who quotes him and the reason being is that R'Akiva Eigers seforim were not printed at the time.The need of chasidim to "prove" the Minchas Chinuch's chasidism is perhaps the biggest proof that he was not.Do they try and prove other chasidim to be chasidim?No.Why? Because it is not even a question.With the Minchas Chinuch it is quite a question.So,to be honest I don't care if he was chasidic or whatever, his sefer is probably the most beloved of all in the last two hundred years
Yosef718I want to add something.You know you were close to R'Yankel Leiner z'l as you wrote here once upon a time.I knew him quite well and I can tell you that one of the things I liked about him besides his open mind and wide yedios was a very honest unbiased approach.He was hungry for knowledge not hungry to pull this guy into his camp, that guy into his camp etc.Unfortunately his untimely passing has left us with a void of honest,open minded talmidei chachomim shyeish bohem daas.
Yoineh,You are not getting what people are explaining, I am skeptic on how Liener(if he was that great) could talk to a imbecile like you,Yosef said he was no misnaged and a little admirer too, period.He was a BIL of A Rebbe, a SIL of A Rebbe and a father of a Rebbe, he Quotes chassidic seforim and Gave Haskomas for Chassidic seforim, if you still call it anti Chassidic, then you are stubborn idiot.Btw, I think that Lieners Grandfather wrote a kuntres regarding the Rambams kabalistic notions, so get off your cliff with Chabad, it was a view held by many Rishonim and Achronim
I never said i am an einikel but for all your ranting about the 'need' of chasidim. I don't carry water for chasidim. I did not bring the not mentioning of the Gaon as proof of anything but it is interesting in itself. It for sure does not imply that it had anything to do with the controversy over chasidus. Punkt Farkert, chasidim have no agenda to to make Reb Shlomo Kluger, Reb Yosef Shaul, or the Bais Efpraim into chasidim. I have never heard a claim that the Chasam Sofer was.. its all rediculous. (even though he cites the Tanya in Parsha Behaloscha) You not appreciating the citation of שער התפלה just reveals something about you more than anything. Yosef Perl of Tarnepol did not embitter the M"Cs life because he was a 'lamdan' for sure Yosef 718
"I never said i am an einikel but for "Sorry,I misunderstood your being named after him.Quoting from the Shaar Hatefilo means he was of the belief "of kabbel es hoemes mmi sheomro" Actually, the ones who "banned seforim" are usually the chasidim.Kyodua, that a certain group does not learn sifrei haGoan ad hayom.I did not say he was a Misnaged,I said that there is no proof that he was a chosid and he surely did not come from that backround.It seems that he was immersed in learning and was not interested in the Chasidim/Misnagdim debate.While we are at it I may as well express my doubts to how Chasidic R'Pinchas Halevy Horowitz baal Haflo'oh was.I don't buy the conspiracy theory that his son, The Mateh Levy totally not Chasidic(interesting,no?)left out the chashishe vertlach from his sefer Ponim Yofos.
"I am not talking about Brisk they will never quote him their insulated arrogance is mindboggling"u r a Chabadtzker who knows nothing about the world around him - that his mashpiyah never told him. You have no clue what seforim they do and do not learn in Brisk. u chabadtzker you
Ummm.. Tzig, it actually is on Rechov Press.And while you keep adding in your pithy comments about how you don't get a chance to to rebut and all that, why don't you just write a real response? Methinks you have been caught speechless and guilty as charged. Be a man and own up that you messed up on this one. Do you really want someone to drag out a picture of the Rogatchover Gaon and start comparing the length, width, and depth of their Payos? Without even looking I can tell you who wins (or is it loses?).
voice of truthI'll check the street name againas far as the Rogatchover goes; I've said it once and I'll say it again. Comparing ROD to the Rogatchover is asinine, ludicrous and worse. The RG shaved not his beard, nor his hair, nor his moustache. ROD has a very nice haircut, and his vontzes are nice and even.Farshtantoo?
voice of truthcheck out this linkmaybe you know better than google maps....
Yoineh"the ones who "banned seforim" are usually the chasidim.Kyodua"Since you are a amatuer I will teach you, that the first seforim that were banned was the Tzevoat Rivash and the Toldos Yakov Yossef the first chassidic seforim.Chassidim never banned seforim, they disliked some seforim but never put a fatwa on nobody.
Yoineh"that he was immersed in learning and was not interested in"Since you are a newcomer in the field, I will teach that in his Doir Deiah there were many Rebbes that were immersed in torah as much as the Minchas Chinuch and still were big manhigim of Chassidus as the Sanzer Rov Chidushei Horim,Imrie Noam and the Tzemach Tzedek, dont try to portray a image that Rabisteve cant go together with Torah Immersion
Yoineh"express my doubts to how Chasidic R'Pinchas Halevy Horowitz baal Haflo'oh"Are you sure that you befrieded Liener? the more you write the less I believe you.The subject of the Hafloah was lenghtly disscussed in the Kovetz Beis Aron Vyisroel years ago,and in many other places. Nobody is forcing you to believe chassidic conspiracies, you can stick to the Aliyas Eliuye, and to Making of a Godal(banned by whom? chasidim? misnagdim? ) etc... to get the unvarnished truth.
Anon,Are you one or many?Whatever the case you are quite nasty.Is that to cover up on your poor knowledge of "history"?Next thing I know you''ll be be bringing proof from Chabdsker seforim that The Ramba"m the big Rationalist was a Mekubal.You think Kovetz Bais Aharon Veyisroel would allow a piece claiming that the Halo'o was no chosid,eh? Soon you"ll be screaming "chay vekayom" about the fake Cherson Genizah.הער אויף צו זיין אזא תמימות"דיגע יאלד!הק" באמת יונה
"I am not talking about Brisk they will never quote him their insulated arrogance is mindboggling"You personify why it is dangerous for kat members to learn nigleh. You guys learn likanter, which is much worse than the Snag-shelo-lishmuh. Your plecentah should have been turned against you and straddled you and prevented you from comming to this world. You take Torah and u use it for "heypech" hatov, against its tachlis. Fech.HT, Brisk is on Press, btw
"dont try to portray a image that Rabisteve cant go together with Torah Immersion"genug shoyn mit di narishkeiten. Let's talk 20th Century and on. After it was nishtakach Toras Habesht, the Snags ran the rashkebehag department.
Not only do you, and you know who I mean, have all the simanin of mamzyerus, you are also and oz punim- there wasn't even a mikvah in your parents' shtut. Maybe they were on shliychus in Outer Mongolia where they don't have a mkivah-at least not a true kosher one. that's why the kat is disenfranchised by the true Jews, they are all children of pusseleh mikvas
anon 857 amremember kol haposel .......shame on you for being mitzi laz on yiddisher kinder for being bnei nida!were you conceived on nittel?....
Anon"nishtakach Toras Habesht"maybe pressburg/siget but not real chassidim
Anon"nishtakach Toras Habesht"maybe pressburg/siget but not real chassidimThose people didn't produce the rashkibhags like SR and Tchebeiner Rov
Tzig- nice link, but I guess I do know better than google maps. Both the Hebrew and the English spelling is Press
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