Tuesday, January 3, 2012

The "מלאכים" and Lubavitch post 4G ( a new גילוי)


















"אוצר אגרות קודש" new edition

In the annals of Lubavitch history there's this group about whom the Satmar Rov was to have said "צו זיי זענען מלאכים ווייס איך נישט, אבער מענטשן זענען זיי זיכער נישט!" Those who have issues with Lubavitch like to point to this group and use them as proof that Lubavitch is not what the founders intended for it to be. Truth be told, the group only started many years after the "founder," R' Avrohom Ber Levin of Ilye left Russia and came to the US. Every boocher'l in the chassidishe velt knows that the Malochim don't like Lubavitch, and haven't liked them since the Rebbe Rashab told him to leave Lubavitch after he was מוציא לע"ז on his בן יחיד, רבינו מהריי"צ נ"ע. So in essence the group as a group was never really part of Lubavitch, Avrohom Ber not withstanding. But we won't be a stickler for accuracy here. What has become part of the Malochim philosophy - as I know it - is that REAL Chabad was only up until the Tzemach Tzedek. The MaHaRaSH is still OK as far as learning his Chassidus, but it's already not what the AR had in mind. Avrohom Ber considered himself on the level with the Rebbe Rashab, a "talmid-chover" as some would put it - silly people they are. They were the ones who took the liberty to laugh in the face of the Frierdige Rebbe, based on what they thought Reb Avrohom Ber would've said, I suppose, since they spent very little time with him before he passed on, and they opened the floodgates for any kal and so-called "Kanoi" to do the same. Then again, if they organized in 5684 then maybe he did really say some of those things? He only passed on in 5698. Word on the street is that most of his talmidim, like Reb Yankel Schorr, spent only 2 years with him, and it wasn't every day either, it was very seldom that they would meet him at all. Most of the meeting was done back in Brooklyn.

Over the years much has been learned about the above-named group and some of their positions. We know that he was a Rov in a Nusach Ari shul in the Bronx. Reb Yisroel Jacobson's father davened in his shul. In his zichronos RYJ writes that when he came to America in the early 20s((his family (parents and siblings) had emigrated before him)) he went to visit his parents and had to be in that shul. לכתחילה, he said, האב איך נישט געוואלט שטיין אין זיינע ד' אמות because of what transpired back in Lubavitch, but he had no choice. That goes to show you that not much has changed in Lubavitch in that respect - you mess with our Rebbes and we'll show you. I guess it was a small shul.... RYJ continues to reminisce how RABL asked him to chazzer a מאמר חסידות ביי זמן שלש סעודות from the Rebbe (Rayatz), which he gladly did, and Reb Avrohom Ber was duly impressed ------ So if he was SUCH a Kanoi, and sooooo disliked the RR and the FR I don't think he would ask to her what he considered diluted (ptuy) Chassidus, now would he? That was one anecdote that showed me that much of what his so-called chassidim and talmidim say about him is not mamesh so. But what we show here may be the kicker, being that it's from the "Malochim" themselves, and kind of throws a really big monkey wrench into the idea that he didn't care for Lubavitch post 4G.  NOT THAT IT REALLY MATTERS, but it does to some people. Somebody who was so anti-Lubavitch post 4G wouldn't make his bochurim collect money for Tomchei Tmimim, a T"T being run by the Frierdige Rebbe, now would he? And he wouldn't be so adamant about it as he is here, would he?! This was 4 years after the RR had passed away already!!

206 comments:

1 – 200 of 206   Newer›   Newest»
Faish said...

What a pathetic post.
I like how you delight in calling the Malach Avrohom Ber, with no reb before it.I know it gives you geshmack.Enjoy the kool-aid, johhny-come-lately-trying to prove credentials for the gevoreneh powers that be.
Feh, eckeldikeh yold

מוציא לע"ז??? said...

What you call מוציא לע"ז was proven to be accurate again and again,
the malach was complaining to the Reshab that his Ben Yuchid is reading sefurim chitoinim,some thing that was not accepted then in chsidish circles before the derech habeshst was forgotten

Anonymous said...

Something is amiss here , in Tar Pie Dalet he had drafted a Ksav Hiskashres for whom?? you claim that his group only existed for two years before he Died in Tar Tzadik Tes??

berl, crown heights said...

Anon 7:57:00 PM asked, "Ksav Hiskashres for whom?"

Try r-e-a-d-i-n-g. They wrote (a very strange) ksav hiskashrus TO EACH OTHER, a bunch of chaverim creating a secret brotherhood of sorts. The whole "support the yeshiva TT" thing is very curious. Whom did they send the money to? Through whom?

Zemel said...

Tzig !! You have set back lubavtch version of history 90 years
What this proves to me that what I have known for a long time , that a lot of talmidim of the Reshab did not care for the Riyats ,and Yisroel Jacobsons father was one of that group that davend in the nusah ari shul where the malach was rav and the maluchim is a continuation of those talmidi reshab,

berl, crown heights said...

Zemel,

Reb Yisroel Jacobson's father did not have much of a connection to the beis horav (same is true of most Chabad people at the turn of the century). All of that is well documented by Rabbi Jacobson himself in his Zikoron Livnei Yisroel. He surely wasn't a malach, not does his praying in a shul say anything at all about his view of the FR. Yo have to really be ignorant of SO many things to think that!

Anonymous said...

"is that REAL Chabad was only up until the Tzemach Tzedek."

I believe that statement made by the Kapuster.

Zemel said...

So Berl you agree with me that most people who built those 55 Nuach Ari Shuls in the US and Canada were not Mekusher to beis Horav, Then the Shalsheles Huoir is not so solid without defection , and those defectors were all missing the Shalsheles Huoir, and the fact the Reb Levik did not send his son the Rebbe to Toimchai Temimim was just a coincident?
and all this must add up to Doir Hashvieeee???

dovy said...

can we have a few more details about what went on with the malach back in lubavitch, please?

Anonymous said...

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/ultra-orthodox-jewish-children-from-the-anti-zionist-satmer-news-photo/57189451

Zemel said...

Dovy! to get a taste what went on in lubavitch in those days , go buy the just reprinted Oitser Igrois Koidesh from the malach , this was written to his son, imagine that his disciple the Reyats would have picked up just a drop of these instructions then America chabad would have been the same as Europe not a modern German Jude with Aramaic gobbledegook

Anonymous said...

Nu RABL saved so many mishpachos by mainstreaming them out of Chabad, before Chabad went off the deep end. Truth must be told that from the Rayyetz and on Chabad has removed themselves from the rest of the chareidishe oilam.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Anon 1019
Which mishpChos did he "mainstream out of Chabad" exactly????
The coocoos from neturei karta that were never in Chabad in the first place???!!!

An Ailemesher said...

I heard that the malach said that the last Rebbe was the Tzemach Tzedek.
און
דער מהר"ש האט געווסט די אמת און דער רש"ב האט גזוכט דער אמת.
To which the malachaim later added.
אונד דער ריי"ץ האט געזוכט שקר און דער לעצטער האט עס אהן געאטרפען.
Not that I agree with the above statements but I couldn't resist a good joke.

The Malach is buried in Lodi, NJ. which the Malachim call ליאדי.

I hear there's a picture of him extant. Did anyone see it? Can someone post it?

Anonymous said...

מוציא לע"ז??? said...

" What you call מוציא לע"ז was proven to be accurate again and again,
the malach was complaining to the Reshab that his Ben Yuchid is reading sefurim chitoinim"
sorry i am ignorant please, enlighten me, where is the proof, and not stam, time and time again.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Zemel
aderaba, name me some of those talmidim, besides for Avrohom Ber, who was no talmid of his in the 1st place

Der Shygetz said...

LOL what is left of the Malochim? Weberman the little Nutturei Karta jerk? Most of the normal Malochim are Satmar now. A couple are even at the fringes of Chabad.

An interesting little footnote in US Jewish history, and not much more.

Why did the Rebbe Rashab not care that his son was reading some innocent books? Because he had ruach hakodesh and knew that his son, and then his granddaughter's husband, would have to bring those who read those books back to Yiddishkeit. So, the Rebbe Rashab paid no attention to the tattletale melamed and let him go off to become a rav (or a shamash - not sure) in some hole in the Bronx, and then to start a cult of perhaps 50 marginals in Willy.

Anonymous said...

Tzig writes: “Which mishpChos did he "mainstream out of Chabad" exactly???? - The coocoos from neturei karta “ “aderaba, name me some of those talmidim”

To mention a few the Waterman’s, Gertner’s, Flour’s, shorr’s etc. etc. among the finest and largest chsidishe families of today’s N.Y. Families like them lubab of today would wish to have!

Whom do you call cooco? For adhering to the original dogmas of lubab fin amoul?, the holy mersha”b z”l: On the topic of Israel-agudah-zionosim-hebrew language, which the mersha”b was from the first and original warrior against it! Or those who “Flew Over their own Cuckoo’s Nest” and accepted the “torah chadoshe” of reb MM the Hildesheimer and Sorbonne student turned rebbe??

ps: why topic the egros kodesh from the “Malach” why not the egros kodesh of the Meharsha”b ?? After all he was a true lubab to! No? Are you ashamed of him??? Was he c”v for today’s lubab zeitgeist cooco to???

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz 12:01 said...
"LOL what is left of the Malochim? Weberman the little Nutturei Karta jerk? "

No the the big one! (who stayed in lubab)living in MB with most of his children OTD!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

anon 9:11

all those families were never in Chabad!!! They joined his chevrah, but they were not Chabad families before!!!

and yes, joining the Arabs at their protests and kissing Ahmedenijad is "koo-koo!"

Anonymous said...

Motzi Laz
"What you call מוציא לע"ז was proven to be accurate again and again,"
How was it proven???

Anonymous said...

Anon
" you claim that his group only existed for two years before he Died in Tar Tzadik Tes??"
why dont you get reading classes before you make yourself in to a chamor...

Anonymous said...

Zemel
"that a lot of talmidim of the Reshab did not care for the Riyats "
How many people besides the Rebbes father, do you know that were no big chasidim of the FR?
Also, chassidis chabad from day 1 had chasidim that did not follow to later rebbes, Whats your point that the Malach was right..

Anonymous said...

Der Shygetz 12:01 said...
"Why did the Rebbe Rashab not care that his son was reading some innocent books?"

1) he probably did care! (even he didn't want to hear it from the malach.

2) maybe if RYY wouldn't read them, he wouldn't wind up with a son-in-law learning by Hildesheimer the rav of the "modern orthodx" movement! or in the Sorbonne the smutz pot from paris

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

he was very happy with his son-in-law, as happy as the SR was with R' ZL Teitelbaum, or the Semihaier...

Anonymous said...

tzig: "and yes, joining the Arabs at their protests and kissing Ahmedenijad is "koo-koo!"

so is the lubab inspired misnachlim!!! (or whatever its called) who are willing to sacrafice millions of yidden for their idiotic lubab inspired shita!

Anonymous said...

Zemel
"So Berl you agree with me that most people who built those 55 Nuach Ari Shuls in the US and Canada were not Mekusher to beis Horav, Then the Shalsheles Huoir is not so solid without defection"
Where does it say that the shalsheles huoir is defection proof, even the Matikie Shemuah of chazal is not defection proof, where are the 15 million jews today?.
all 55 shuls were probably divided between Liadi,Kapust ,Niazhin etc. etc..

You built up some cocanmanie theory ro get in to a hate rage..

Anonymous said...

tzig: "all those families were never in Chabad!!! They joined his chevrah"

So are 99% of chabad families of today "never where and never will be in chabad" just joint the CHEVRAH!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

1) misnachlim are not inspired by Lubavitch

2) I think 99.99% of the world would disagree with you and would say that Weberman is still more koo-koo than the biggest Misnachel living in the worst place in E Israel

Anonymous said...

Anon
" maybe if RYY wouldn't read them, he wouldn't wind up with a son-in-law learning by Hildesheimer the rav of the "modern orthodx" movement! or in the Sorbonne the smutz pot from paris"
I understand your qualms, but maybe he saw that his son inlaw went thru sorborne, and he stayed a Kodush vethoer etc...
You think Rebbes are not capable of smelling it?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

99% of Chabad just joined for the chevrah? are you mad?

You said that the Malochim shlepped families out of Chabad and "mainstreamed" them. That is a lie. NONE of his chevrah families were EVER in Chabad. So he did not "save" them.

זעהט אויס איך האב דא צו טוהן מיט א חסר דעה

Anonymous said...

An Ailmisher
"
דער מהר"ש האט געווסט די אמת און דער רש"ב האט גזוכט דער אמת.
To which the malachaim later added.
אונד דער ריי"ץ האט געזוכט שקר און דער לעצטער האט עס אהן געאטרפען.
"
Dont you see that this is chock full of lies,he died before the last Rebbe came to the US, this quotes are all lies

Anonymous said...

tzig: "as happy as the SR was with R' ZL Teitelbaum, or the Semihaier..."

both where yirai hashem and talmeidi chachum who never learned sifrei chitzonies or sifrei haskala certainly not in the Sorbonne or by Hildesheimer, the fact that RYY was happy with him shows one of two things either as mentioned if he wouldn't himself read does 'books' he wouldn't be tarnished... or it was a perfect match to his 'daughter' ved"l

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

yirei hashem? is that why they harassed his daughter to death? because her husband was a "Yirei Hashem?"

Anonymous said...

An almisher

"דער מהר"ש האט געווסט די אמת און דער רש"ב האט גזוכט דער אמת.
To which the malachaim later added.
אונד דער ריי"ץ האט געזוכט שקר און דער לעצטער האט עס אהן געאטרפען.
"
what is all this emes business?
is this Kotzk or Shinever?
Lets get to the FR, he was a rebbe embroiled in saving Russian Jewry,
Was that Sheker? Did he see his biurim in the Mamorim that they are Sheker?
Can Reb Mayer Weberman explain where the FR went wrong in a Biur?
What is statement throwing with backup?
truth is, it is all lies that these people are yukking around in willi

Anonymous said...

Anon
I heard in Willi that the Semiahler was a ardent zionist,and in the west side had a shul with no mechitza

Anonymous said...

Anon
"both where yirai hashem and talmeidi chachum who never learned sifrei chitzonies"
Is reading the New york Times Chochma dekedusha?
I saw a shmuess where he quotes it non stop...

Anonymous said...

tzig: "Weberman is still more koo-koo than the biggest Misnachel"

you are talking of "one weberman" out of 1000's of them! I'm talking of 99% lubabs of today who are first class zionim from the direct ifluence of their rebbe! calling for not to withdraw of one inch of stolen land (even if most of the world thinks it insane) even it creats the biggest danger and chillul hashem ever happened!

Anonymous said...

Anon
"the holy mersha”b z”l: On the topic of Israel-agudah-zionosim-hebrew language, which the mersha”b was from the first and original warrior against it!"
I tought the Malach had a problem with the Marshab?
Why cant Lubavicher Rebbe believe that the letters of Reshab on anti zionisim is "Nishtakcho"
Only Chasidus could be "Nishtakcho"

Anonymous said...

Anon
"calling for not to withdraw of one inch of stolen land"
Who decided that this is zionisim?

Anonymous said...

tzig: "You said that the Malochim shlepped families out of Chabad and "mainstreamed" them. That is a lie. NONE of his chevrah families were EVER in Chabad. So he did not "save" them.

זעהט אויס איך האב דא צו טוהן מיט חסר דעה

By me reading this stupidity you have a point i should check my sanity! however there is litirary many 1000's of chidren of the melacum families who learn and are at home with all sifrei chabad, due to their fathers rebbe the malach! if the malach would of stay in 'cabad' all thouse 1000's would of wind up like the rest of chabad of today!

Anonymous said...

Anon
" or it was a perfect match to his 'daughter' ved"l"
Dont scare me with the Ved"L, spill it out tyhat she wore pants and what else???

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

many 1000s? really? do they hide in caves or under rocks?

so it was him who didn't stay in Chabad, not that he shlepped the families out Chabad. I see. But if they learn sifrei Chabad that were published by today's Chabad, which 95% of them were only published after ww2, is that not tainted, c"v? Meir Weberman thinks so.

Anonymous said...

tzig: "yirei hashem? is that why they harassed his daughter to death? "

Is that why the jews killed yoizel?
sign up to this stupidity and go with it! see where it will get you.

Anonymous said...

Anon
") maybe if RYY wouldn't read them, he wouldn't wind up with a son-in-law learning by Hildesheimer the rav of the "modern orthodx" movement! or in the Sorbonne the smutz pot from paris"
using your logic why did the great Malach have a son obssesed with Mishgal 24/7?

Anonymous said...

"Is that why the jews killed yoizel?
sign up to this stupidity and go with it! see where it will get you."
Lies get you far as I see willi

Anonymous said...

tzig: "many 1000s? really? do they hide in caves or under rocks?"



yes 1000's the Waterman’s, Gertner’s, Flour’s, shorr’s etc. etc. count for many 1000's they all have large chsidishe families i know many many of them they live 'under the sun' in NY State mostly.

"But if they learn sifrei Chabad that were published by today's Chabad, which 95% of them were only published after ww2, is that not tainted, c"v?"

Of course not! the likity torah and the tanya is only a re-print! and of course they don't learn reb MM sefurim!!

Anonymous said...

anon 9:53: "using your logic why did the great Malach have a son obssesed with Mishgal 24/7?"

That's a painful question i sometimes think if this wasn't an hakpuda from the holy meharsha"b c"v ...

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:48 “Who decided that this is zionisim?”

And who decided its daytime!

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:47 said: “I tought the Malach had a problem with the Marshab? Why cant Lubavicher Rebbe believe that the letters of Reshab on anti zionisim is "Nishtakcho" “

I thought you’re a lubab not a yevunite!

Anonymous said...

anon 9:47 "Why cant Lubavicher Rebbe believe that the letters of Reshab on anti zionisim is "Nishtakcho" “

And why can't you believe that your rebbes toras are Nishtakcho or was never none by klal yisruel!

Anonymous said...

anon 9:53: "anon 9:53: "using your logic why did the great Malach have a son obssesed with Mishgal 24/7?"

IDK if its true, however You are mevazah a yid who became a real bal tshvua (not a matisyuhe kind) in his later days!

Lemul said...

A few points about the Malach
1)His private letters to his son and to a few others is in big demand and has been just been reprinted for the 4th time with 50 new letters (out of respect to the SON were not printed before,)
It is a source of chizik and and a window to the past
2) Uninterrupted for the last 72 years after his petira there is 2 of his shtiblech that learn tanya and his Igrois every Shalosh seidos,
the past yat kislev there was a 'turn over' of over a thousand people
3) The credit (or as HT cries the Blame) goes to the malach and his talmidim who educated the general public and satmer in particular about the MEHUS of the Reyats and RMMS,
From the various publicity that was targeted to reach the orthodox non lubavitchers with a goal that the audience should assume that their Penimies is OK but their chiztoinies is 'just' different for the sake of outreach,
These few maluchim loosers that Reb Yacov Shorr encouraged to dismantle and inter grade into to other kehiles brought with them a message with first hand knowledge from a very holy person (that they knew from his letters) that these 2 rabeiyam had their inside influenced by goishe literature from childhood and what you see on the outside that's what is inside

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

שוין
לעמל איז ווייטער דא

Did you correct all the Ameratzis that you printed in your last book yet?

like the לאלתר לתשובה לאלתר לגאולה pins that didn't exist in Avrohom Ber's lifetime?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

meileh the Rayatz, he could say that he knew him. But the Rebbe? what did he know about his MEHUS that he could "educate" his people about?

and some "education" it was!

everybody was a Notzri, Misrochi, Min & Apikores to him!

Anonymous said...

And now we are presented with

"the tzigele & the lemele show"

bring it on!

Anonymous said...

tzig: "But the Rebbe? what did he know about his MEHUS that he could "educate" his people about?"

what did he know about his MEHUS ??

Are chasidum that brain dead! dont they know that by all chasidum learning sifrei chitzonim sifrei haskala going to college is chazer treif! let alone becoming a rebbe! even frum litvakis know it! BMG of lakewood wouldn't accept you as a talmid!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

so he didn't know his MEHUS, all he knew was that he went to University. I see. Why didn't you say so! And based on what he told his talmidim what?

Anonymous said...

tzig:

"so he didn't know his MEHUS" was that said or implied?

"all he knew was that he went to University." assuming he did isn't that enough to know ones mehus?

"And based on what he told his talmidim what?" sounds more like cross examination no?

Anonymous said...

plenty of gedolim read secular literature in russia.

Zemel said...

Hershel, based on what he told his talmidim: is that Chabad Lite started 90 years ago, what is left today is Chabad Myth,

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

so why did he leave over 100 years ago?

and what was he able to transmit to his talmidim already, if years before that it had been lost?

and why was he the only one to see this "lite" happening?

was he the world's smartest man?

Anonymous said...

Zemel
"Hershel, based on what he told his talmidim: is that Chabad Lite started 90 years ago, what is left today is Chabad Myth,"
obviously his talnmidim never heard it, since you see that he still is affiliated with tomchie teminim under the leadership of the Rayatz..
So it is all a Hewes st myth...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"And who decided its daytime!"
great answer... I hope u get a job at Nastarnua,,,

Anonymous said...

Zemel
"what is left today is Chabad Myth"
when a bucher learns tanya today in willi or in ch, then he learns Likutie torah,...
is that a myth
Explain..

Anonymous said...

The reason the "Malach" was kicked out from Lubavitch by the Holy Reshab is that it is known that the Reshab was dead set against reading or studying Morah Nevochim that all the Maskilim used to use in order the lead young Jews astray. Learning Morah was prohibited by all real Chasdisha Yidden. The Malach was steeped in Morah as evidenced by those letters. So he didnt want to allow him next to his holy son the Ryatz, and around the young talmidim of Tomchei Tmimim which he established then (He wrote a letter to the Ryatz he shouldnt hang around the Malach not to get unwanted influences vdal). So the Reshab sent him packing. As revenge the malach or his angelic loonies concoted this fabrication that the Ryatz read Biclech (Its so ridiclous, there are thousands of mammrim sichos igros of the Ryatz, how come nothing betryas the fact the he read anything besides Chasidos and holy books? All his years he hid everything he read? The malach however was all his years steeped in Morah as evidenced clearly in his igros he calls the Morah the holy sefer)

Anonymous said...

Zemel
regarding the zekanim on Hewes st.
Schwatz Lemel put out a sefer on the Malach, Sheloshas Horoim,he writes that the Malach said on the Lealter Letshuva pins of the Rayatz in 1942,that it is natzrus( which needs a biur)
But the fact is that he was long on the Olem hoemes when this happened...
So much for the shemous of the Zekanim of Hewes St.
This Lemel Schwartz is a 90 year old liar..
In the forword of the new edition, Shapira writes( another 90 year old shakran), that the Son of the Malach from Albany came to Satmar ruv for hadrocha, and the Satmar Ruv told him, you dont need me, you have your fathers sefer.
Who ever knew the son, or reads his father letters to him, will not see some oived hashem that needs hadrocha,he was far from that...
In Satnar this language of Hadroche was never spoken
I am very skeptic that Satmar Ruv after the stroke would know about the Malachs sefer..
Ein Kietz Ledivrie ruach of the Hewes street bachis...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Are chasidum that brain dead! dont they know that by all chasidum learning sifrei chitzonim sifrei haskala going to college is chazer treif! let alone becoming a rebbe! even frum litvakis know it! BMG of lakewood wouldn't accept you as a talmid!"
By chasidim they always knew that a Rebbe is beyond beyond,
They saw for themself a very serious chasidic yungerman that was a kodesh vetohar, and a oived hashem mineiroiv, a talmin chochem in nigleh and in nistar, so they decided its a rbishe thing, and the did not look at that side.You can disagree on chasidic hergeshim, but this is the way chasidim work
BTW, Did Reb Aron Kotler have a problem with Rav Hutner...? I saw photos of then talking in very friendly manner.

Anonymous said...

Lemel
"1)His private letters to his son and to a few others is in big demand and has been just been reprinted for the 4th time with 50 new letters (out of respect to the SON were not printed before,)
It is a source of chizik and and a window to the past "
does menashe fulop give a shiur,in that sefer?
how many yidden in willi are abstaining from Mishgal because that sefer, is that not the theme of that sefer?
How much effect did it have on his son?
Does that sefer have any relation to the 1st 3 chabad rebiem ? they are never quoted.
How do people get chizuk from that sefer?

Anonymous said...

Lemul
"2) Uninterrupted for the last 72 years after his petira there is 2 of his shtiblech that learn tanya and his Igrois every Shalosh seidos,
the past yat kislev there was a 'turn over' of over a thousand people"
why should I believe you?
Can you invite me next year to the event to check it out?
why dont you say 10,000 people and 100 of shiurim?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:18 said...
plenty of gedolim read secular literature in russia.

None of them went to college ever!

Anonymous said...

anon 1:19 "The reason the "Malach" was kicked out from Lubavitch by the Holy Reshab "

read the egros mersha"b based on his writings/beliefs he would kick out 99% of todays lubab's, the reason you're all in lubab today (if you can call it at such, after all what is in a name)is because y'all had a secular & haskule college educated rebbe ! who managed to subordinate all of you and indoctrinate his philosophical kind of chsidus in the name of the tanya, ha ha what a joke.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"read the egros mersha"b based on his writings/beliefs he would kick out 99% of todays lubab's"
give me 1 letter,

Anonymous said...

anon 1:45: "how many yidden in willi are abstaining from Mishgal because that sefer,"

Is there no emes & eidele talking lubab's left anymore (besides tzig, of course)

Anonymous said...

anon 2:13 "give me 1 letter,"

It's available in all chredishe bookstores, you can even dowload them! except by kehot!!! curious no?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"
None of them went to college ever!"
there is no place written that the issur is College, the alter rebbe writes that chochmas chitzoinis is prohibited unless it is for torah or parnosa,
and that is exactly the path that Rebinie Hakodesh Vehatohar of Lubavich followed.
Being in University is osser for other reasons as is working in BH.

Anonymous said...

Lemul
"The credit (or as HT cries the Blame) goes to the malach and his talmidim who educated the general public and satmer in particular about the MEHUS of the Reyats and RMMS"
So in short the Malach only succeeded in building a nest of Anshei Riv Umoden, that are planting seeds of loshan Hora for years to come.
I would suggest that you go to Lodi to ask Mechila from him, for putting on him such a Negative light on him
Btw, what about the Lies on Reb Shrage Fievel? is that also from the Malach? or voluntary?

berl, crown heights said...

tzig, I can't believe we are wasting time with these marginal morons. They are as "real chabad" as the notzrim are "real jews". They can read the Lekutei Teiroh or Tanya till they are blue in their faces, but they are still as much "Chabad" as a galach with a Bible is a yid. They have no familial or mesora connection to any Chabad Rebbe (of any stripe!) or even a mashpia. What are even talking about?

dovy in jersey said...

again with the my rebbe can beat up your rebbe. (or perhaps better: my cliche can beat your cliche)
you guys are just too much. LOL!
but thanks for the entertainment.

schneur said...

Gentlemen, lets discuss the story of the Malach.It may shed some light on these crazy discussions.
The title itself was not uncommon in White Russia , A "gor" frume Yid was called a malach ,in my father's home town of Kurenitz (where the Malach lived for a while although he was a native of Ilya)) there were more than a few Yidden witht he title Malach,.
Next it seems the malach was RYY's melamed.
No matter what Rabbi Jacobson states the Malach did not "hold" of RYY. I have letters from the malach where he refers to him as --elle in the dimunitive form.etc. No respect for his yichus title position etc.
The Malach lived in the Bronx, Mr. Mendlowitz of TVD was very interested in bringing in a bissele chassidus in TVD and heard of the Malach , many bachurim travelled to the Bronx to get acquainted and hear his sichos. The Malach died (I think in 1938 or so) , most of his talmidim had only a passing acquaintance with him and the oral traditions of Chabad.I was told that Malach was almost never in Brooklyn !
In the meantime Mr. M of TVD expelled the group of bachurim "vos hoben zich grupirt arum" Rabbi Levine.He found their frumkayt disruptive in the BM. The Halachic case in presented in rav Baumoils sefer of Shut. rav Baumoil was the grandfather of Rabbi Dr. Nachum Lamm. he gave Rabbi (mr.) M "recht" to expell the young chassidim from the TVD BM. So they went off by themselves to Nesivoth olam.The rest is history. their leaders were rav Schor and Yiblach Rabbi Weberman.In TVD Rabbi Jacobson taught Chassidius to a select group of students. The Rayaatz arrived here and brought real Lubavitch here and the Satmar Rav brought real Kannuath here. Both these arrivals hurt the position of the Malochim.
The Ksav hiskashrus is in my opinion to be read in relationship to the formation of AGUCH in America and afterwards Agudath ha-Temmimim.Clearl there were a number of attempts of organizing Anash in the uSA.
Firstly in the early letterheads of Aguch headed by Reb Moshe leizer Kramer of Kurenitz the Malach is listed on the presidium.(see a reproduction in Rabbi Jacobson;s memoirs) How can we explain that.
Well in thsoe days TTL and the Rayatz were under atatck in the USSR, Chabad was in a very weak position world over. The Rayaatz took it upon himself to unite all Chabad people in the US to support TTL. This inlcuded the chassidim of "die feters vechuli" after all the group was called Agudas Cahssidei Chabad not Agudas Chaseide Lubavitch well was not the yeshiva called TT-Lubavitch not TT-Chabad ? So I suggest the Malach was caught up in a temporary enthusiasm for a united Chabad and supporting TTL. Perhaps he changed his mind later or was disappointed with the direction things took I don't know. He hardly was interested in being a rebbe or start a new chassiduth With the death of the Bobroisker the Rayaatz was the only show left.
I will close by bringing down for the millionth time what Rav Jacobson writes in the name of the Rayyatz that there are 3 categories of Chabad chassidim : 1. Chassidie Hageza 2. Chaside haNusach (follow the lurianic rite and other Chaabd customs) and Chaside cabad -study Dach) Interestingly the Raaatz does not even mention hsikashrus as an even higher category. How many Anash in White Russia were mekushorim probably no more than 5 ,000 or so.(Many words of the Rebbeim are Nitzchi and today we see a revival of these 3 categoriesin CH itself, vedal.)
EVEN in White Russia most Chabad chassidim by the 5th generation were in the category of Chassidim of Geza and nusach not Chabad (either study of dach or hiskashrus) So certainly in the US with the exception of a few dozen yechidim most of the Chabad people here before 1948 were members of the first 2 categories.

Anonymous said...

Ok

Lets go down the list....

R' Yoel Kahan the biggest talmid of the Rebbe is infested with Haskala... lalalla...

R Pinyya Korf a Maskil competing withh Mendolsohn.

Did you remember R dovid Raskin, holy raskin he was Charinar himself.....

And Reb Shmil Dovid Reichik, oh he was really vizel bechvodo ubatzmo....

And on and on, since who doesnt reacall that every mamaer of the Rebbe ZIA of chock full of quotes from the UNIVERSTA RL.

Besides, the fact the the Rebbe changed Lubavitch doesnt alter the fact the Maalach was a hidden Maskil oriented tupe of Chosid, not the real okd authetic on, so I don't understand ho he is the Maven about old Chasidos. Chasida Chabad had to stay away from him.

Anonymous said...

berl, crown heights 2:26: "tzig, I can't believe we are wasting time with these marginal morons."

Berele wallow in your s--- and all will be good.

Anonymous said...

anon 2:49 "R' Yoel Kahan the biggest talmid of the Rebbe is infested with Haskala"

is this the guy who attempts to refute the VM ? is he the mout-peace of the rebbe ? Now we know the rest of the story.

Anonymous said...

berl 12:26 "They have no familial or mesora connection to any Chabad Rebbe (of any stripe!) or even a mashpia. What are even talking about?"

So the malach a tzadig by all accounts a talmid from the mersha"b (a real lubab rebbe) and a melamid to his son! has NO mesora connection, but reb MM a talmud from the MO Hildesheimer has the right mesora! how pathetic.

Anonymous said...

schneur 2:42 "The Rayaatz arrived here and brought real Lubavitch here and the Satmar Rav brought real Kannuath here. Both these arrivals hurt the position of the Malochim."

Not bad written, However note that in the begining of SR dynasty in N.Y. the melacum had taanus on SR, who expressed himself with gratitute and respect to RYY in his words: That he has good leadership qualities! but later the malucum became mostly satmare, atleast the frum ones.

schneur said...

Berel of CH,
In principle I agree with you, but in todays Lubavitch how many have a familial or massorah connection with Luabvitch of lets say 1953 ?
Its food for thought!

Anonymous said...

schneur devorim shel tam

scvemel said...

Schnuers explanation of the ksav hiskashrus makes a lot of sense so are his analogy about the 3 categories of chabad of the past

schneur said...

Frankly I have trouble understanding the attacks on the Rayaatz.
Would a crypto maskil wage his relentless war against the Communists which was a matter of Mesiras Nefesh be-poel not be Melitzah?
And the stories about college and shmollege and Berlin and Hildesheimer of the Dor 7 are all completely unrelated to matters on hand.
The 7th generation also fought for Torah True Yidishkayt in the world.
Since when did Zionism become the yardstick by which we measure a Jews affilaition with Chabad.
On the other hand the Mlochim are fine people , although I think they are misguided on Zionism.But they are entitled to their view.
I have a picture of the Malach on a swing he loks like Reb Shimen Skop of Grodna.
Look every geneation changes and there are old chassidim who have a hard time accepting the new realities. Its not a matter of right or wrong just of relaity.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

You have a picture? Can you share?

Anonymous said...

schneur,
thanks for sharing. finally some rational discussion without the hysterics. you've just raised the IQ level here about 100 points.
I've argued vehemently in the past with you on some issues, but you write clearly without 1 liner sound bites, and it's a breath of fresh air.

Bronxer said...

From all the previous comments especially Schneurs and from my Readings about the Malach, I assume the story behind the Ksav Hikashrus goes like this:
With the Tumel about saving Russian Jewry in the background with all credit for the Reyats for his struggle to continue with Toimche Temmimim in such trying times The Shdarim tried to organize the Nusach Ari Rabbis and Members to contribute to this great cause, and as Schnuer points out to " the early letterheads of Aguch headed by Reb Moshe leizer Kramer of Kurenitz the Malach is listed on the presidium.(see a reproduction in Rabbi Jacobson;s memoirs)",
It could be many reasons why he felt that he does not want be pulled into(or continue in ) that scheme of events, so he wrote down this Ksav Hiskashrus copied from the Chida (so they write)added the line of supporting the Holy yeshiva that WAS establish By the ReShab , which was most probably their Catch for him to join this organization, and presented it to the Machers to sign AS his request for this to be the basis for this organization ,
and that was the beginning and the end of the Malach being involved with Lubavitch even at arms length,
this theory answers allot of questions in this post
i wonder what anyone has to say my it

psol said...

Don Yoel Levy of the OK told me that his father was one of the group that went from TVD to learn with the Malach. He then went to learn in Otwock. This made no sense to me, nor could he explain it.

Zemel said...

DON YOEL LEVYS FATHER WAS THE MALACHS NEPHEW

Waiter said...

sSchneur said...

"Since when did Zionism become the yardstick by which we measure a Jews affiliation with Chabad."

You mean ?

Since when is Chabads affiliation with Zionism become the yardstick by which we measure them as Jews?

The answer:

Since the RhSab wrote his opposition against Hertzel

The Real Willi said...

What an eye-opener all these crackpots (Zemel zevel, lemel etc.) are. So let me get this straight, correct me if I'm wrong:
Your problem is that the Lubavitcher Rebbe took some college courses in Europe, despite massive evidence that his conduct during those years was kulo kodosh vetohor?!! Or is the problem that he then rebuilt teyreh and yiddishkeit on a bigger scale than anybody else after the churban?
Or is the real problem that you'd rather claim to follow the 'real' mesoireh of a stockbroker-turned-rebbe.... or a loser who left nothing other than some sour grapes behind (RAB)...?
Dumb sucker, Zevel, go back to where you usually handel shpeit far nacht....

chaim shmeel said...

Look, everybody knows that the Malach was a bitter old man who left nothing behind. Sad that at least he was a gelerenter yeed, but the dreck that Tzig lets post here are bitter ameratzim as well.

Anonymous said...

plenty of gedolim read secular literature in russia.

None of them went to college ever!"

exept reb yitzchak hutnar, of course, he was poshut ah tzadik.

ah btw its ah shtikle better ah course of engeniring which has some shaichus to mamoshis , then the pushkin kotler loved to read, ah sorry he was only involved in learning from the day he was born, my mistake.

An Ailemesher said...

psol,

Rabbi Berel Levy was a nephew of the malach.

Anonymous said...

Bronxer
"and that was the beginning and the end of the Malach being involved with Lubavitch even at arms length, "
until we find a other document,
Did u know that this document exist?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Is there no emes & eidele talking lubab's left anymore (besides tzig, of course)"
I guess you never read the Oitzer Igroth, it is the basis to the majority of the letters

Anonymous said...

Waiter
"Since when is Chabads affiliation with Zionism become the yardstick by which we measure them as Jews?

The answer:

Since the RhSab wrote his opposition against Hertzel"
Did the reshab say that the war on Hertzel has to go on even after his death?
You believe that rebinie hakodesh baal Likutie Sichoth, has to fight Napoleon too?
Because the Alter rebbe fought that war?
You believe the the 7th Rebbe of chabad had to fight DR Lilenthal as the 3rd rebbe of chabad?
Did the SR fight the Neologs from 500 Bedford?
Y NOT?????

Anonymous said...

Schneur
"In principle I agree with you, but in todays Lubavitch how many have a familial or massorah connection with Luabvitch of lets say 1953 ?"
as far I know, chabad has a nice majority with 100's of families who are obbsessed with their Gezha heritage.
The 100'ss that came later dont like their Gezha arrognat heritage,
I really think you are spewing hate on Chabad without knowing facts of the grounds.
You only read the books and hear the flavor of the day rechilas in your upper manhattan cloisterd biblotheque

Anonymous said...

Anon
"So the malach a tzadig by all accounts a talmid from the mersha"b (a real lubab rebbe) and a melamid to his son! has NO mesora connection, but reb MM a talmud from the MO Hildesheimer has the right mesora! how pathetic."
what does Mesorah mean?
Tzidkus?
or passing on info?
Why is a smart rebishe einikel a ben horav and a chadban, who clinged to his FIL, on a daily basis, as u see in his reshimos, not good to pass on some info?
unless Mesorah means some different concept?
The Munkacher Ruv Zt"l is a famous Baal Mesorah as u see in his seforim, And he studied secular studies to get his diploma, is all his mesorah down the trash?
Is their some logic in your words, or you are to rehash your dreck...

Anonymous said...

Anon
"It's available in all chredishe bookstores, you can even dowload them! except by kehot!!! curious no?"
what about Kehot?
they dont sell the Igroth?
Who said that? Lemel shwatz or shapira?

Anonymous said...

Rabbosi reading all the above! It’s my opinion that lubab 'as is' has no Tekanah, and it should be fractioned into a thousand pieces maybe one or a few of the fractions will be the seed that will recreate the beautiful mosaic again.

As one cuchem said: They triumphed by the oppressive communist but failed miserably under the oppressive Zionism! Goes to show Zionism is worst than communism.

psol said...

The puzzle was how he could go from the Malach to a Lubavitcher yeshiva.

schneur said...

Annonymous.
If writing that Lubavitch and its Dor Shvii Nasi was very succesful in attracting thousands of new comers to the chassidus since 1952 is "spewing hatred,"
then I am going to buy a new dictionary. Reb Yid, today we live in a transparent society, you can live in Anchorage and have a pretty good idea of whats going on in NY.There is a tool called the internet, email, informants newspapers, etc etc Many of these products are in real time Last I heard there was a MTA subway in NYC that still included stops in CH. How far is it from NYC to CH, cmon some of your teens know the answer to that one ! Well if service been halted there , there is still a taxi service or Uforatzto car service.
Finally Reb Id, a quick glance at mazal tovs in any Lubavitch web site , and print publications will reveal that today's Lubavitch is composed of Americans, BT's Sefardim of all sorts(did they have a fmailial connection with Luabvitch ?) Russians BT's men like the blog sponsor here that is Chagas people who joined Chabad etc etc.Hey 3 out 4 of the rabbonim in CH have no familial connection to Luabvitch before the 1950's!
Clearly the Geza people are a minority in todays Lubavitch.
In many Lubvitch communities outside of NYC htere are hardly any Lubavitchers whose grandfather was a chasid let alone a religious Jew.
The plethora of Lubavitch web site print publciations, shluchim and the fact that CH is not Jerusalem but part of NYC make it fairly easy to know what goes on in your community. Friend the world today is transparent , thats some thing the heimishe Yidden discovered too late in Beth Shemesh and elsewhere . their activities are quickly not only known but seen world over.
One need not have attended the Sorbonne or German universities to know what is happening in Ch the last 50 years ve-ad bichlal!

Anonymous said...

schneur: "One need not have attended the Sorbonne or German universities to know what is happening in Ch the last 50 years ve-ad bichlal!"

L'mata measurim tefuchem, biclal!?

Waiter said...

Anonymous said to Waiter
"Did the Reshab say that the war on Hertzel has to go on even after his death? You believe that rebinie hakodesh baal Likutie Sichoth, has to fight Napoleon too? Because the Alter rebbe fought that war?"

The obligation of Observing yiddishkeit is a persons behavioral act first, protecting yourself from reverse influence of others is part of the same obligation to protect your own turf, your families turf , your neighborhood/Kehilas turf ,Etc,,
It is not a war you are not a soldier ,
The Milchamas Hayeitzer is an internal conflict ongoing forever no cease fire while a person is alive
It so happened that in an agreement of Hashem with our father Abraham that the punishment forviolating the Jewish faith Exile/Gules was decided upon,
Yes, Jewish Sovereignty over land was CONDITIONAL!!!!
The Amoira Shmuel the biggest poisek in his Generation said that what Hashem told us through His Neviem to WAIT for Meshiach is for the SOLE ACT for Mesihaih to Reestablish Jewish Sovereignty and have their own government ,all other attributes to Meshiach can be (and are)disputed,
The Rambam brings down LeHalucha the words of Shmuel as just Umri Chacumim and states that whoever does not WAIT for Mushiach (as described byShmuel) is an Apikoires
The ReShab Writes a warning for our days : "That even if the Hertzel plan would achieve their goal, we most not listen to them in this matter "to make our redemption with our own power"
so any one who is ONLY in the OPINION that meshiachs JOB may be achieved with him is JUST not wating for him and is an Apikoires
and Apikiorsem are Not Heilig.

BTW the alter rebbe did not fight Napoleon, stop dreaming

Anonymous said...

Maybe some gezha people will finally realize that they are the foundation of Lubavitch and take some pride in their heritage. The answer isn't Manhattan parties and drugs or being mekaneh the well educated BT; and it certainly is not messianism but is a realization that they are the einiklech of the real hassidim of Raboseinu Nesiainu-the warriors of the House of Dovid bechol dor vedor.I tip my hat to the sincere BTs but everything I said remains true and valid.

Anonymous said...

I tip my hat to the sincere BTs Because they are today's warriors

Anonymous said...

Waiter
"The obligation of Observing yiddishkeit is a persons behavioral act first, protecting yourself from reverse influence of others is part of the same obligation to protect your own turf, your families turf , your neighborhood/Kehilas turf ,Etc,,
It is not a war you are not a soldier ,"
Is the observance of yidishkiet in Nebraska of Bejing not upheld?
Yidishkiet is torah umitzvahs that's in the shulchan orech not the religion Shebodi Milibom..

Anonymous said...

Anon
"The answer isn't Manhattan parties and drugs or being mekaneh the well educated BT"
What does that say to Libel Shapiros kids? Or Berel Shem tovs kids?
Are they doing drugs? are they Mekana BT's?

Anonymous said...

Waiter
"The Amoira Shmuel the biggest poisek in his Generation said that what Hashem told us through His Neviem to WAIT for Meshiach is for the SOLE ACT for Mesihaih to Reestablish Jewish Sovereignty and have their own government ,all other attributes to Meshiach can be (and are)disputed,"
where is this Mamar Chazal?
Does the Shulchan Orech quote the biggest posek of his time? If you find it please share the source with all of us

Anonymous said...

Waiter
"The Rambam brings down LeHalucha the words of Shmuel as just Umri Chacumim and states that whoever does not WAIT for Mushiach (as described byShmuel) is an Apikoires"
Who is not waiting for Moshiach?
What does having a sovereign country have to do with moshiach?
Does the city council and Mayor of KJ believe in Moshiach?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"L'mata measurim tefuchem, biclal!?"
I love your sense of humor, I guess its the FUNNY thing in 11211,outside of the 2 clown brothers

Anonymous said...

Getting back to the new revised Malach Sefer,
There is 1 omission in the sons meeting of gedolie yisroel,
Can someone please notify Shapira that in the next print(I read overhere, that it is the hottest sefer in willi reprinted every year 3 to editions)he should write only the truth, that the Son was davening in Chabad in Albany and visited in a other part of Brooklyn,Rebinie Hakodesh Baal Likutie Sichas

Waiter said...

Anonymous asked from Waiter that wrote:
"The Amoira Shmuel the biggest poisek in his Generation says: that Hashems edict to us through His Neviem to WAIT for Meshiach, is for Mesihachs SOLE ACTION to Reestablish Jewish Sovereignty and have their own government ,all other attributes to Meshiach can be (and are)disputed,"
Where is this Mamar Chazal?

Answer: 4 times in Bavli: Ein Bein oilem Hazeh Liyomois Hamushiach alu Sheibid Malcus Bilvad

Anonymous asked:
"Does the Shulchan Orech quote the biggest posek of his time? If you find it please share the source with all of us"

Answer: Hilchos Jewish Sovereignty is Hilchesaa LiMeshicha, which is found in Rambam Hilchus Maluchim from where I quoted,
only an Am Huurets will look for an answer on a Teiku In Hilchus Shabbos

berl, crown heights said...

Schneur said: In principle I agree with you, but in todays Lubavitch how many have a familial or massorah connection with Luabvitch of lets say 1953 ?
Its food for thought!

Schneur, it is a discussion that might be interesting, but in this thread, with the retarded 'malochim mit tzubrochene fligelach' flying around, I don't really want to discuss current Lubavitch demographics. In any event, when it comes to the passing on of the real Chabad (Lubavitch) mesora, Teimchei Temimim is exactly the kind of 'cultural and academic environment' that preserves and transmits that unique culture and that unique Teiroh. Not to mention the Rebbeim who even on 'daas tachton' level were the only possessors and transmitters and elucidators of said culture and said Teiroh. And when we talk about Teiras Chabad, most of the kesovim of ALL the Rebeim that have by now been published by the Kehoth (at the Rebbe's instructions) where not even available in the past to anyone BUT the Rebeim themselves.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:21 "I guess its the FUNNY thing in 11211,outside of the 2 clown brothers"

I assume you're a lubab chused of reb MM and you laugh of other rebbes? How comical?

Lemul said...

berl
i have studied most of the kesovim of ALL the Rebeim that have by now been published by the Kehoth (at the Rebbe's instructions) that where not available in the past to anyone BUT the Rebeim themselves,
and have proven that i did not miss a thing its pure Monotonous,
one line in any musser sefer repeated 100 times will do the same job
its only used areintzuflectun cult propagand

Anonymous said...

Lemul
I hear you, that all of the chabad rebbes from the Alte Rebbe, Miteler Rebbe, Tzzemavh Tzedek, to the torah of Rebinie Hakodash Baal Likutie Sichoth.. is all fluff and propaganda.
Did I hear you clear? And you learned all of it?

Anonymous said...

"anon 12:21 "I guess its the FUNNY thing in 11211,outside of the 2 clown brothers"

I assume you're a lubab chused of reb MM and you laugh of other rebbes? How comical?"
I am a Lbavicher chosid from all rebiem included the last rebbe,
Who is the comedian? Who decides?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Answer: 4 times in Bavli: Ein Bein oilem Hazeh Liyomois Hamushiach alu Sheibid Malcus Bilvad "
I know this mamar chazal,it has noting to do with your conclusions

Anonymous said...

Waiter
"Answer: Hilchos Jewish Sovereignty is Hilchesaa LiMeshicha, which is found in Rambam Hilchus Maluchim from where I quoted,
only an Am Huurets will look for an answer on a Teiku In Hilchus Shabbos"
If it is not relevant today, then you can not be a kofer neither today.
Emuna in Moshiach is not Hilchase Limeshicha, it pertains to a Jewish faith every second of the day....in exile..

Waiter said...

Eminus V'Dieois for us lay men to believe today is in Hilcus Yesodei Hatorah

Hilchos Jewish Sovereignty is Hilchesaa LiMeshicha, For meshiah to act upon, which is found in Rambam Hilchus Maluchim from where I quoted,

Waiter said...

to anon "I know this mamar chazal,it has noting to do with your conclusions"

try steinzalts

Waiter said...

got to work
next time

Der Shygetz said...

Schneur...

Who cares about 1953? Who cares who has a family connection to whom? Those who are obsessed with gezhe risk propagating genetic defects if they keep up their inbreeding - and most of them are smart enough to know it so gezhe is less and less important these days.

The world has changed since then, and Lubavitch manages to keep up with these changes without sacrificing its true atzmus.

To you, the atzmus of Chabad is the old Chassidish culture of Russia.

To me, and to the Rebbe, that culture is bathwater that can be thrown away as necessary and replaced with any water (American, French, new FSU, EY, Teimani, Moroccan) that lets Yiddishkeit grow.

Prost un poshut said...

To Shygetz:
that's why there will be a teilung in Lubavitch and sooner than you think.The pamunitze vasser in Nevel is worth more than all your $100/bottle Johnny Walkers and Glenlivets.The Bts can all move to the Minsk-Charbiner Rebbe where they can prepare for the big moment where their "disguise comes off..." as Rabeinu Matt Miller baal "King without a crown" recently did...

Der Shygetz said...

Matt Miller left Chabad a few years before he shaved off his beard. The Matisyukel who shaved off his beard is a very far cry from the Matisyahu who put on a Lubavitcher act when it paid him to do so.

There already is a teilung - the difference is that the fighting is very subdued and limited to a few hotheads.

The rest of us quietly decide the Moshiach issue for ourselves and have friends across the board. I was shocked to find out that 2 of my friends in CH were also close friends with one another because they're poles apart on so many issues. However, that's the way it is BH with most of us and that's our Rebbe's living legacy.

Next bit of nonsense?

schneur said...

Rabbosai, If you will check you will find that rabbI Levy was not a" blood " nephew of the malach. He was related through marriage. I would be interested in knowing if I am correct here.
I met a real nephew of the Malach in the BP Skverer BM in 1979 on a wek day, The Rebbe Reb David ZT"L (a real complex person) called out Alperowitch gey zum amud. Wow I thought how does he know my real name , but I saw it was a real meyfes an alte Yid went over . I a sked him later who he is he said he is a nephew of the Malach. being a real jerk I didn't go after him.

Anonymous said...

http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=36476

Der Shygetz said...

A relative of the Levys by marriage told me that they were blood relatives when I asked him. However, he sounded kind of ambiguous, as if he was not too sure. Perhaps he was ashamed to admit it. I would be as proud of having the self-appointed Malach as a relative as I would be of being related to Solomon Dwrek.

Rav Don Yoel Levy is a Cohen. If the Malach was as well, they are probably blood relations.

yoel said...

Bernard/Berel Levy was The Malachs sisters son.I don't know how religous they were and the Malach wanted to be mekarev his nephew.

shimon said...

" I would be as proud of having the self-appointed Malach as a relative as I would be of being related to Solomon Dwrek. "

Der Shygetz,
This post in not about you.

Anonymous said...

Der sheygetz,
Don Yoel Levy is not a cohen.

In 1938 Berel Levy went to learn in TTL in otvotsk. He told me he was 14 yo at the time. Considering the malach was niftar that year, it seems a stretch that the malach had an influence in his life. He may have influenced his SIL, but it's hard to BL being a talmid of his.
I'll try to ask DYL next time I see him.

Der Shygetz said...

Somebody messed up more than a few times in Kfar Chabad then, and referred to R' DYL as Hacohen. I should have remembered that the hechsherim (father and son) do not read Hacohen.

Shimon - Saygec Arosz!

Anonymous said...

waiter
according to rambam you can have a melech kosher before moshiach

Anonymous said...

Oh my Hersehl Tzig! 140 comments, psh psh psh

Anonymous said...

More on the Malach:

Yudel Chitrik's "Reshimos Devorim" has a brief bio. (Reliability questionable.)

Yoel Kahn's early Yoman recounts in detail him visiting Nesivas Oylom ("undercover") & reporting back to the Rebbe MM. (Not sure if this part of the yoman was printed with the rest in the early numbers of the Kfar Chabad, ca. 1982.)

Lehavdil, so to speak, "Hasidic People" by Jerome Mintz (Harvard, 1992), ba'aruchah. (It is there that we are informed that the towards the end of his life the Malach took down the Rashab's picture.)

One should speak to the Zirkinds & Blesofskys in Crown Heights for more info. The fact is that the Zirkinds are the ONLY family in Lubavitch that still goes with the Malochim levush.

One should also speak to the Sklars. Moshe Sklar, a Lubavitcher, is married to Yankel Shorr's daughter.

- ZIY

Anonymous said...

As for the Rayatz' "reputation" - years ago I saw an article by the renowned Jewish ethnographer & writer Sh. An-sky, printed in the "Kanadisher Odler" ca. 1914, of his visit to Lubavitch. After describing the town & the Rashab at length, he then describes the Rayatz & his daughters, stating that they look & behave tre-modern, studying secular studies with a gentile teacher etc. etc. An-sky goes on to bemoan the fact that in his estimation it seems that the great dynasty of Lubavitch will terminate with the Rashab since he cannot fathom that someone as modern as the Rayatz, even being an only son, can justly take succeed his father.

Personally, I do not agree with this, especially to this extreme (yes, "a gast oyf a vayle, zet a mayle" - but he also does not have time to get the full picture...) - but still, it does show that there was already then talk in this vein.

& the Rayatz is not the first. Already his zeyde, the Maharash (who, even according to the Malochim, hot gevust der emes), was, according to some, already reading sifrey haskoloh & the haskoloh journals of the time during the lifetime of the Tzemach Tzedek. See the memoirs of Ephraim Deinard, vol. 2.

Like the way they explain the Rebbe MM's secular preoccupations, Lubavitchers also interpret this (& the Maharash's reading newspapers & medical books) as a form of concealing his real pnimiyus & to hide his emeser chasidisher mehus.

To a kegener however, this "modern" external posture would be interpreted as the whole person, that toychoy kebaroy & eiyn l'dayon elo mah she'eynov roy'oys.

- ZIY

Anonymous said...

anon 12:42, "according to rambam you can have a melech kosher before moshiach"

A dead one to ?

Anonymous said...

שוידערליך: חב"ד ראבינער רופט צו אנערקענען אין א כשר'ען אותו האיש

א געוויסער חב"ד ראבינער, שמואלי בוטח, קומט ארויס מיט א בוך וועלכער לייגט אראפ אותו האיש אלס גוטער איד עפ"ל. ער זאגט אז די קריסטן זענען זייער נאנט מיט די מדינה, איז צייט צו קענען זיין איינשטימיג אויף דעם אויך.

דאס אז יאשקעלע ער האט זיך דערקלערט אלס משיח, זאגט ער אז יעדער קען עס טאן... יא, דאס לאזט זיך אויס פון משיחיזם ליידער.

ואין פוצה פה ומצפצף. איצט זענען די סיקריקים אויף'ן סדר היום.
מ'קען זען מער דערוועגן אויף


ואין פוצה פה ומצפצף. איצט זענען די סיקריקים אויף'ן סדר היום.
מ'קען זען מער דערוועגן אויף

So this is what will get from the run-away-chsidus lubab? one day matisyuhe the next botech on and on?

Anonymous said...

is the holy BML of Komarna and Wiengarten of Belgium/Monsey what you get from run-away-kehila Satmat Sands Street?
one day Nuchem Rosenberg the next day Stien with his Shikse, on and on???

Anonymous said...

Anon
"the Rayatz & his daughters, stating that they look & behave tre-modern, studying secular studies with a gentile teacher etc. etc."
I just saw that the Satmar Rebbe of KJ saying that his fathers family the Atzei Chaims kids had a gentile teacher to teach them secular studies. The Chasam Sofer had a teacher for his boys to teach them secular studies ( look in Hamburgs book)
The biggest Kanoi of all the Munkacher Ruv learned secular studies in Nitra, in order to get a diploma to become a state recognized Ruv (look in Toldois Reibinie)
Whats all your fuss,

From all the people that stopped secular studies for boys even in
Elemenatary, Is Rebinie Hakodesh Baal Likutie Sichos Zy"a

Hertz frankel writes in the Ami, that there where some parents that took out their kids by the afternoon secular studies,when he was the Secular deprtment principal by the Satmar Cheder.
He told the Satmar Ruv( who never liked people frummer then him), and he got mad and said let them send their kids to the Malochim, They had then a very tiny mossad of a few minimal classes.I think Rav Lietner (who was educated since he was from a modern home)send his boys to the Malochim Cheder

Anonymous said...

ZIY
"One should also speak to the Sklars. Moshe Sklar, a Lubavitcher, is married to Yankel Shorr's daughter."
I heard from Reb Moshe Sklar that he brought for his FIl, the Reshabs seforim Samech Vov and eien Vov, and he only learned it in the bedroom, since offical Hewes street policy was not to learn the Reshabs torah.
The question is how much Reb Yakov understood.

Anonymous said...

זייענדיג אין ליובאוויטש האט ער קריטיקירט געוויסע מהלכים בנוגע הנהגת הישיבה תומכי תמימים שנתייסד אז ע"י הרש"ב,
this quote is from the satmar idishister veb zietel, I Velt

they write facts out of the blue, but how is this fact consistent with the letter that he he calls to give money for Tomche Temimim in the days of the Rayatz Nesius, they never back off from their brainwashed lies.

Anonymous said...

ZIy
"Yoel Kahn's early Yoman recounts in detail him visiting Nesivas Oylom ("undercover") & reporting back to the Rebbe MM"
Are you reb Yoels contemporary?

Kovner said...

Did anyone read the letters of the Malach? Why is his style and substance not typical Lubavitch style? All he harps about is hasmodah in learning, and he doen't use the familiar Tanya-style terms so prevalent in Lubavitch literature.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"A dead one to ?"
Check out all the halochas in the sefer hayad, then come back to blog

Anonymous said...

anon 1:31 "is the holy BML of Komarna and Wiengarten of Belgium/Monsey what you get from run-away-kehila Satmat Sands Street?"

Matisyuhe & botech where prominent in lubab who fed the young minds there with there treif.., and their damage can last generations and that is unforgivable, the names you mention true or false are individuals who lieder fell batzas hayazer just like in your or any other kehilos! its their own sin and the will have to do tshuvah.. c

ome'on lubab'nick you guys find a zecus for all poshim! can't you find a little heart for a strayed satmarer (after all they shokel lulav and put on tefilin everyday!) or for a tzadig like the malach?! do you guys love only lubab shkutzem?

Der Shygetz said...

Boteach was THROWN OUT of his shlichus fast enough.

Matisyukel was a fringe figure who used Chabad campus outreach as a way to start his career.

Neither one was very prominent for long.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"ome'on lubab'nick you guys find a zecus for all poshim! can't you find a little heart for a strayed satmarer (after all they shokel lulav and put on tefilin everyday!) or for a tzadig like the malach?! do you guys love only lubab shkutzem?"
this 2 guys are a long time not affiliated with Chabad, Boteach was offica ostracised from Chabad for 2 decades, why are harping on that issue, again,
Matisyao was niskarev to yayahdus thru chabad, the he left to karlin, now he had some semi breakdown...
Why are u harping on that issue. again,
What dont you get ???

Geck said...

What has not been explained about the Malach:
1)When reading the malach's writings, you would not know he came from the "Beis Medrash" of Chabad. There is no reference to Chabad, in substance or style!
(I mean of course,in context of writings and letters of Chasidei Chabad "bnei doroh")

2)He was a little boy when the Tzemach Tzedek passed away. Was he Mekusher to Maharash,or was he self made as he grew up in a vacuum, being that Maharash passed away he was a young adult, and the Rashab was his age. Why wasnt he with the other sons of T"T. (In wiki it says he was from gedolei chasidei T"T, that is obviously nonsense as he was a kid when the above passed on.)

3)And yet its clear that his derech was different then any of the Gedolei haTemimim and chasidim of Rashab in Lubavitch. Such as Reb Nissan Nemenov, Reb Zalman schneerson, Harahak R' Zalman Lodzer (schneerson),horav Zislin etc.
one example of his derech being different, is with regards to "Blitus".

There are alot on unanswered questions, and few primary sources. There wouldnt be anybody today who knew him, Or am I wrong?

( as an aside about how the malochim have evolved since the forties, Why did the malochim allow bochurim from 770 farbreng in nesivas olam, if they hated lubavitch so much, such as R' moshe Gurkov, that brought blesofsky back to lubavitch (he was an american, but had maternal roots in chabad.)
Whats clear that the current members of nesivos olam-malochim, do not know what they are talking about when it comes to the topic. And with time theyre relation to satmer made the thruth about the malach more obscure... As such the letter you posted is a real eye opener that makeds us need to relearn who the malach was.
(And in this they seem to strike a parallel to the "odessers-na nachs)

Anonymous said...

anon 10:17, "Why are u harping on that issue. again, What dont you get ???"

I'm sorry i wasn't aware of that it is a real painful issue. Thanks

Anonymous said...

geck 12:40, "And with time theyre relation to satmer made the thruth about the malach more obscure..."

Perhaps, Just like the relation to reb MM lubab, made the relation to the ZZ and mersha"b lubab obscure? so melaochim chose the lesser of the two ...?

Anonymous said...

anon 6:47 "Check out all the halochas in the sefer hayad, then come back to blog"

Sorry I'm not done yet with the 4 chapters of the shulcun urech relative in the dodays world, hichasa l'meshicu? I'll I'll I'll soon,

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Perhaps, Just like the relation to reb MM lubab, made the relation to the ZZ and mersha"b lubab obscure? so melaochim chose the lesser of the two ...?"
what was the essence of the reshab?
his askunes letter thar he wrote regarding some Jewish group?
or the 40 Volumes of his deepest biurim in chassidus?
And who printed them all? and who put it in his yeshivah curiculum?,
You are ignorant 1 track ferd, and dont fight for the Malach presige, you are tto a ignorant ferd, to be in his discussion

Geck said...

"Perhaps, Just like the relation to reb MM lubab, made the relation to the ZZ and mersha"b lubab obscure? so melaochim chose the lesser of the two ...?"

Mending the Malochim ideology with Satmar, makes it harder to know who the Malach was. As PROVEN with the above Tomchei Tmimim letter, that we are not getting the full picture!
However as far as the Rashab, we have the primary sources, as in his talks, discourses, and letters, as well as of his talmidim, and the chasidim bnei doroh, chasidei hatzemach tzedek, and sons. (without needing the "oral tradition" that the malochim depend on 100 percent for their theology with nothing to support them, once again as proven with the tomchei tmimim letter!)
Isnt it irony, that it was the last Chabad Rebbe, that published all the above above, so not only didnt he hide it, and obfuscate it, he printed it.
And irony of irony, the last Chabad Rebbe published the Discourse "Umayon" from Rashab, with an introduction from R YY, laying out chabad anti zionist theology. And that is were the Malach is mentioned by RYY as well...
So sorry, but this absolutely destroys your theory about obscurity on the lubabs part!

I would like to hear intelligent responses or arguments, with logic and sources,( not baby squabbling) from R' Schneur A. lubabs or malochim/satmers in the know. to the last post and this one.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:04, “New Luban old Lubab u need to be healed with your ossesions”

The obsessed with the ‘ghost’ of lubab i.e. websites, the rebbes daily message, negunim, shlicum, melochim, satmar, v’culi v’culi v’culi …, Are obvious up-set when the hot air balloon gets puncture ! Just say MEHARSHA”B and pop goes the balloon!

Anonymous said...

Geck 2:39, “the last Chabad Rebbe published the Discourse "Umayon" from Rashab, with an introduction from R YY, laying out chabad anti zionist theology. - So sorry, but this absolutely destroys your theory about obscurity on the lubabs part!”

It is amazing how the blind trying to confuse the blind!, Your comments how the rebbe was immersed in the letters and teaching of the meharsh”b, but forget to mention or rather totally deny that the most relevant in those letters pertaining to “current events” is the feverish anti Zionist and anti agudah-frum zionisim, could their be anything more obscure than that?

Anonymous said...

Do the malochim have a law against the english language. Seriously, I need an interpreter here. All I'm getting is toanu lo b'chitim v'hodu lo b'seorim. (Or besoreim, as evry scnod wrod is mispelt hre)

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:52,
What are you saying? In English this time, please, and using connecting words "tzuklepn a vort mit noch a vort" ("how the blind confusing the blind" is not English)
Is it not true that Kuntres Um'ayon was printed by the 7th Chabad Rebbe, with a preface from the 6th Chabad Rebbe, in it is written very sharp words against the zionists?
Please answer.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"Are obvious up-set when the hot air balloon gets puncture ! Just say MEHARSHA”B and pop goes the balloon!"
you are correct that the Balloon of your obsessive 1 track mind nonsense busted in chabad, but Ashrieni Uma Tov Chelkani that we have a big Toras haChasidus that the Holy Reshab wrote,and said that toras hacahisduss is here to stay till Moshiachs day, and that this is the only Emunah and u and buddies should stick to the Igroth...

Anonymous said...

anon
"that the most relevant in those letters pertaining to “current events”
Obviously the Rebbe believes it is not "Current"

Anonymous said...

anon 4:21, "Obviously the Rebbe believes it is not "Current"

So with that note may i believe that the rebbe who passed away just like the meharsha"b is not current anymore!?

Anonymous said...

anoan 2:51, "in it is written very sharp words against the zionists?"

and what year was it printed? was it before '67 ? or after shazar came to america when lubab started the new pro-zionist agenda, and their Ifuratza started to take off?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"or after shazar came to america when lubab started the new pro-zionist agenda"
U idiot, don"t you know that Lubavicher rebbe called Yossel Ashkenazi, if he can accept Shazar the apikores for a visit, since this Halochas belongs to him or 82 Lee avenue.
Ashkenazi answered that Masseh Rav(meaning RJT of Satmar)and we had has no problem to accept all National or Local politicians, Apikorsim,Gay, Bi Sexual, does not matter as long our Moisdois benefit from it.
We even make big Kabolas punim for all this Apikorsim on Lee ave corner Ross, with 1000's of our tinokas shel bies rabon, doing all the 9 yards of Chanufa, so Bottom line its no problem.
So the Lubavicher Rebbe told Shazar you are permitted to visit 770.
This story is not printed yet, but I saw at the printer that Gelbman is preparing it for the Moshian vol 62

Anonymous said...

Anon
"and their Ifuratza started to take off?"
its Ufuratzto... say the dikduk correct...you will be more "Funny"

Anonymous said...

Anon
"So with that note may i believe that the rebbe who passed away just like the meharsha"b is not current anymore!?"
xplain your self better plz.

Zemel said...

printing a tanya does not makes you a benini,
printing a few lines about the reshabs position on zioinisim
does not prove any thing
kissing shazar proves a persons Mehus

Anonymous said...

anon 12:30 "So the Lubavicher Rebbe told Shazar you are permitted to visit 770."

did yossel ashkanazi gave him permission to say on this rosah and worldwide rosh hakofrim:

KOL-HU-OLA-L'KDILA-MOCHLIN-LO-KOL-AVINOSOF!?

and as a bounus kissed this min v'apikoris ym"s in his face! picture perfect! on the news headlines!

Anonymous said...

zemel 8:35 "kissing shazar proves a persons Mehus"

Yes agreed, indeed it does.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:33 "and their Ifuratza started to take off?"
"its Ufuratzto... say the dikduk correct...you will be more "Funny"

In the days of the iPhones Ufuratztu is out.. think of
i-furatztu on iPhones and facebook wow that can really work!

Anonymous said...

Anon, zemel, lemel, etc. (sockpuppet)

http://chabadlibrary.org/books/

Please find the Rebbe's Igros, Chelek 26
Letter ט'תריג
And, Ha'ikar, letter ט'תתקה.
written on the day after Lag Ba'omer Tof Shin Lamed. Shazar visited on Purim Tof Shin Lamed.

I don't even know why I continue to answer you, you obviously are not well versed in the Rebbe's writing, sayings, and actions.
You continue to base your pure hatred on some hearsay which can not be backed with facts.
The Rebbe's view on zionism is well known and public knowledge.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

a quote from that letter:

ולחשיבות הענין הנני חוזר עוה"פ: לכאורה וואָס אַרט (מיר) אַז אידן ריידן זיך איין, אַז די גאולה האָט זיך שוין אָנגעהויבן, עס ווערט דאָך פריילעכער אויפן האַרצן; וגודל ענין שמחת בנ"י מבואר הוא, ובפרט על פי תורת החסידות, אלא שכנ"ל – עונשו חמור וכו' וד"ל.

zemel said...

anon! you look in the letters and i looked on Shazar and the insructions HE gave to promote Hertzels agende not to wait for Mashiach to establish jewish soverinity

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

zemel
מ'האט דיר אראפגעשיקט פון אויבן???

Zemel said...

Hirshel, I am here on the olam HaToihi, but kisvei Ari ZL describes a kiss as the strongest form of HisKashrus, he say its Isdabkus Richu BeRichu,
In english its called the kiss of death,

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

The kiss you speak is the M2M kind, which didn't happen here...

Zemel said...

It was Mouth Piece to Mouth Piece ,
The Official PR man For the HertzelShtat agreed to finance the EY institutions who educate the anti Gurari stream (the forrunners of todays TzFatim)in exchange RMMS will make a Mockery of Meshiach

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

oy, Zemel
you're living in Willi circa 1966. Time to move on.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:37, “you obviously are not well versed in the Rebbe's writing, sayings, and actions.”

You are ¼ right I’m not versed at all in the reb MM writings, but sayings and actions! That another matter, just go to any chabad house and listen to fiery speeches defending the misnachlim and eretz yisruel haslima!!! And not to return 1 inch of land! Which is the worst kind of incitement read: zionisim! With that kind of talk in all lubab what’s worth a letter hidden at ט'תתקה. Whatever it says.

Anonymous said...

Tzig 9:22, “The kiss you speak is the M2M kind, which didn't happen here”

Kish-mir-in- … !

Anonymous said...

anon 11:09, "Anon 4:37, “you obviously are not well versed in the Rebbe's writing, sayings, and actions.”

I read the pamplets lubab is saturating in local shuls for shabos and is full of zionisim filt! and i will tell you that the publishers don't even no at all what they promoting or what zionisim is at all!!! because i guess they never got to the rebbes letter #ט'תתקה. or for that matter the mershab"s or RYY writings! lubab is a branch of zionisim today worst than agudah! which wouldn't dear even in todays world to write such things.

Anonymous said...

Zemel
"but kisvei Ari ZL describes a kiss as the strongest form of HisKashrus, he say its Isdabkus Richu BeRichu,"
The Tzig should be happy to have a Mekubal on his site, where is the Kisvie Hoariza"l?
since you are a Mekubal, maybe the tzadik hador kissed the rosha hadoir, to get out all his Nitzotzas,
Does the (Non sourced) Arizals only go your direction?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"I read the pamplets lubab is saturating in local shuls for shabos and is full of zionisim filt! "
number 1, what means zionisim?
number 2, Where did u get it in the pamphlets?

Anonymous said...

Anon
"because I guess they never got to the rebbes letter #ט'תתקה."
this letter was printed every year in algemiener journal annually before 5 Iyar

Anonymous said...

anon 12:48, "number 1, what means zionisim? number 2, Where did u get it in the pamphlets?"

You probably wouldn't know by now even if you will drown in it, these pamphlets are distributed all over shuls (who let them) on fri afternoons, many times i had to trow them in the garbage for the minus v'apikorses written in it to explain some current events.

Anonymous said...

zemel
"the forrunners of todays TzFatim)in exchange RMMS will make a Mockery of Meshiach"
I think that all the Mockery started in Uhel by Reb Moshe Titelbaum the first

Zemel said...

הירשל ציג said..."oy, Zemel, you're living in Willi circa 1966. Time to move on"
Well said! Yud & Yat Kislev ,time to move on and away from jew hating

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

zemelle
the hate has been coming from you, my friend

Anonymous said...

anon 12:58 "I think that all the Mockery started in Uhel by Reb Moshe Titelbaum the first"

how abot the casam sofer, was he part of it to?

Anonymous said...

Anon,
I know u throw it in the garbage and you and your kids should be very proud of you and inscribe it on your tomb stone."Hikpid Lizrak es Hasefer Hakodesh Likutie Sichas Behashpe.
Plz,put it in your will.
now back to business, I know already that I am drowned, but u with the clear head,did u see Zionisim in the pamphlets?

Anonymous said...

anon1:07, "Hikpid Lizrak es Hasefer Hakodesh Likutie Sichas Behashpe" "did u see Zionisim in the pamphlets?'

1) the pamplets are not the same as the Likutie Sichas, I hope.

2)the Likutie Sichas I'm sure is holy for you after all he was your rebbe i assume, but why ask me to have it written on my tomb? i didn't ask for it did I? and i didn't say "pamplet Hakodesh"

3) If you ask me what is zionisim when all your rebbes wrote about it, than how will i be able to get it thru to you?

4) did i see zionisim in the pamplets yes i did, do i remeber or keep them, NO I don't. I'm sure you can find them somewhere...

Waiter said...

Anon said ...."did u see Zionisim in the pamphlets?"
YES Lekitei Sichos explaining the first RasHi in Breishis Umer Reb Yitchok that jews have Rights today on Ertets Yisroel ,Pure Hertzelistic Am Huraaatzis

Anonymous said...

Zemel
So the difference between the Satmar ruvs chaifa to the US politicians (reshoim) and the Lubavicher Rebbe chanifa to Israeli politicians (reshoim)
is the Kush???
and only according the Arizal?
So maybe its Nishtakcho toras Arizal, and we can be friends again

Anonymous said...

Tzig 1:03 to Zemel, “the hate has been coming from you, my friend”

Hirshel, as a host letting us post our opinions (most of the time) is welcome! However just like me I’m very sensitive when mud is directed on my rebbe.. I guess hirshel gets miffed when it’s done on his rebbe to, regardless of the merits a little respect for the host is due and helps!

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