Monday, June 20, 2005

Angel worship



Why the infatuation with a bunch of Torah Vodaas Yankee kids who put on Chassidic costumes?

Why the fascination with a Chassidic man who was very sure of himself and...... well.... not many other people?

Why the infatuation with a bunch of radicals from the Bronx?

Why the need to attack Jewish Giants like Reb Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz as "maskilim" and their Yeshiva as a Gymnasium (uchedomeh) when it was the only Yeshivah in Brooklyn raising Religious youngsters?

Why is it OK to bring up the past of שוכני עפר whose only crime was to be born to a traditional but maybe unorthodox family?

42 comments:

AMSHINOVER said...

i have to say i'm lost,what ya talking about?

Anonymous said...

"malochim" (williamsburg)

AMSHINOVER said...

From Artscroll's Reb Shraga Feivel: The Life and Times of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the Architect of Torah in America, pp. 331-332, 335-336,

On Friday, November 29, 1947, the United Nations debated the issue of partitioning the British Mandate for Palestine into two countries, one Arab and one Jewish. Reb Shraga Feivel prayed fervently for partition. He had no radio in his house, but that Friday he borrowed one and set it to the news, leaving it on for Shabbos. He waited with such tense anticipation to hear the outcome of the U.N. vote that he did not come to shalosh seudos. When he heard the U.N.'s decision to establish a Jewish state, he stood up and recited the blessing הטוב והמטיב Four days after the United Nations vote, on 19 Kislev, Reb Shraga Feivel spoke in Bais Medrash Elyon, to present his talmidim with a Torah perspective on the event. He began by emphasizing that in the absence of prophecy no one could interpret the U.N. declaration with any certitude.Nevertheless the whole tenor of his remarks reflected his hope that the moment was a positive one for the Jewish people.He described three aspects of the final redemption: the redemption of the Land, the ingathering of the exiles, and the return of the Divine Presence to her proper place. The redemption of the Land is the first of the three...
In a similar vein, he also explained why the secular Zionists might have been chosen to play such a fateful role in the history of the Jewish people... Divine Providence might have arranged that the secular Zionists play a major role in the redemption of Eretz Yisrael precisely in order to maintain their connection to Klal Yisrael.
In a conversation with the Satmar Rav, shortly after his talk on the U.N. declaration, Reb Shraga Feivel was subjected to the sharpest criticism for his "Zionist leanings." Later he told his family, "I could have answered him Chazal for Chazal, Midrash for Midrash, but I did not want to incur his wrath, for he is a great man and a tzaddik." He added with a twinkle, "And besides, he has a fiery temper"

AMSHINOVER said...

BTW check your email

malach said...

Chasidic garb by you are 'costumes'??
Keep up your chasidic 'levush':Jeans, short sleave t shirt, brown shoes, large 'chup'.Don't forget your gartel!(and thilas hashem booklet.On a tangent:Why is it that lubabs are always 'armed' with their little 'tehillas hashem' booklets?Do they fear contamnination if they use a regular siddur if they chance chas vesholom to a non lubab shul??)

malach said...

To all those who don't know what Hirshel is 'atacking'.'The 'other' site has posted about the Malochim,Berel Levy, etc.
Tzig is disturbed, that not every post all the time is about the Rebbe Shlit'a

zezmir said...

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the point that bothers HT, is why is that every Lubavitch hater, like Malach, immediately becomes:
Pro Malochim
Pro Rashag
Pro Barry Gourary
Pro R' Aharaon Shtrasheler
Pro Kopust
Not that they have anything to do with those groups or individuals.

Would they have any interest in any of those listed above had they not been Chabad affiliated, but outside "Lubavitch?"
I know a Litvishe , Lakewood misnaged, who is so anti Chassidus that you wouldn't believe it, but he's pro Shaul Shimon Deitch (Liozner Rebbe) - surely, this is only because he left Lubavitch, thus validation his hatred.

It's like Rush Limbaugh promoting Bill Bradly vs Al Gore.

It's old fashioned enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Why don't they just stick to the criticisms they have instead of jumping on the breakaway bandwagon?

n said...

heshy, a general thought...your posts are often very cryptic in presentation. I know that to be effective when speaking (which is probably not much diferent than written communication) that there are three rules 1) tell them in the begining what you plan to talk about,2) tell them, 3) wrap it up by telling them again..this is for the sake of clarity...I deciphered the substance of the post with a little effort...and don't see what you are responding too or commenting on. is it an inside event? not to clear...

n said...

malach, i also don't know why heshy is mocking 'chassidic costumes'... these boys were baal tchuvas, sincere fellows and are blameless ...they metamophiozed years later as a group and now frum could be held accountable for their metamorphosis into under cover satmar extremists.....but you already know that...

Hirshel Tzig said...

Hey, I wear a costume too.

That was just an attention grabber.

Gotcha!

Anonymous said...

Heshy, are we playing in a sandbox with no rules? I just wanna have fun too...shall we bloggers?

Hirshel Tzig said...

even sandboxes have rules, you gotta play fair.

n said...

malach, you should feel flattered that heshy gave you so much press with this post!

bpunbound said...

and what's wrong with brown shoes, if i may ask?

Hirshel Tzig said...

As far as bing "cryptic" goes:

I'm trying to compensate for other things that we lack as of now.

n said...

fezless, pick a name, join the circus.. the molochim are literarily/historically something only because they are a pimple attached to a big something (lubavitch), take that same pimple and put it on a baboon's but, who will take note?

n said...

heshy, there you go again, what are we lacking?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I don't know, mystery? suspense?

16 ave guy said...

Tell me people, Is Malach the gabbi of the shul?

n said...

heshy,mystery suspense is a movie, i thought we were an intellectual forum?

Moishe said...

will somebody correct me if I'm wrong:

You mean to tell me that a Chossid, no matter how esteemed he may have (or may not have) been, who had an argument and was asked to leave, and is obviously bearing a grudge, and travels to America is going to decide the future of Chabad?

I'm sorry I don't but that.

Moishe said...

buy not but.

Anonymous said...

Any truth to the rumor that the Malach was an alcoholic later in life?

go snags! said...

Sure he was! All Chabadniks are archololics from birth. I think it's in their mother's milk...

avremel said...

I heard from Reb Yankel Schorr's einikel that he would "drink full cups of 96'er", so maybe there's your proof.

crown heightser said...

You guys are so superficial with this rage against your critics.
I get more and more depressed by the day when i look around at the matzav in Chabad, and you guys sit and attack malochim, satmar, litkavs, etc.
Get over them, they should all be well and prosper!
Why do we claim to be the highest and most penimiusdik, and yet we are completely behind the Yiddishe velt? Our kids use nivel peh, and shvartze slang. They want to emulate the secular world, and have no interest in veren a bissel mer ehrlich, a bissel frummer, a bissel adeler.
Mosdos in CH have no problem with mixed dinner, girls have no concept of tznius. Even good boys drei zich in theaters, watch TV, and sit at Giants or Yankee stadiums. We scream that were about penimuis, but it's all lip service - and we dont even have chitzonius.
Why dont you guys forget about if a ex-lubavitcher from 50 years ago was good or bad, and wonder why we claim to have something better, but cant see it in practice.
All I hear about in CH are things shleimas haareztz (which the average guy Lubavitcher translates into hard line zionism), the Identity of Moshiach, and other superficial irrelevancies.
Is that what Chabad is all about? Is that all there is to a Lubavitcher?
Oy do we ever need Moshiach.

eli said...

CHer,
If you don't mind me asking, how long have you lived in CH, and what's you backround?
Have you seen the progresseion to the point that you are enraged about?

avremel said...

CH'er
we defend our Rebbe against attacks, we don't sit around and criticize others. Don't you know, misery loves company?

n said...

crown heightzer, good points...we are often delusional in accepting nostaligic chabad of yesteryear as a fact of what lubavitch is when what lubavitch is today and where its going is the lubavitch reality that most of us ar ignoring...this is a great item to discuss on the blog, iutem by item for a very long time..., where else is this talked about?..what are we doing about it? is anybody doing anything..

eli said...

H,
That sounds like an official request by N!
Nu, Lets go - put it up for discussion!

HT - c'com brother, we need more posts to converse about! Are you asleep at the switch?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I don't wish to serve as fodder for the loonies lurking in our midst.

eli said...

Are you calling N a loon?!
Say it aint so!

Hirshel Tzig said...

no, Eli. N isn't the loon, there are others.

n said...

heshy, i didn't think that you review such old posts...yeah eli is right...this topic is a one to submit for more coverage..

Hirshel Tzig said...

N
I am all seeing, even old posts.

17 and lovin CH said...

PUH-LEEZE!
CHer, you belong in Williamsburg with all the puritans.
CH is the best place to live. I've been here all my life, and it dosn't get better than this. Williamsburg is great for rip-off artists. Boro Park is great for fakers. Flatbush is great for egomaniacs. CH is great for everyone!
Here, you can live! Nobody is telling you that you aren't good enough, or calling you sheigetz, shika, etc.
The girls are beautiful and not oppressed/suppressed. The boys and girls can think, and grow intellectually, unlike the thought-controllers a few blocks in every direction! This is the pace!!!

zezmir said...

17 - I'll say a kapitel tehilim for you.

crown heightser said...

"17 and Lovin it" is exactly the problem I was talking about.

And like I said, it's not about WB, BP, Flatbush - I have no interest in comparing them. I wish all yidden the best, but my concern if so what's in back yard.

Interestingly, 17 has is busy with 'yenem' - he(?) has no problems, as long as he is better than the next guy.
What a way to grow up.

n said...

if we can't beat them maybe we should join them and live a little...

Hirshel Tzig said...

17
so, you're saying that CH has all of the above:
1) rip-off artists
2) fakers
3) egomaniacs

I agree wholeheartedly. That's becuase nobody gives a d--- so you can do whatever you please. There has to be a happy medium here. You cannot have everybody doing what they please and still expect to maintain some standard of decency.

Anonymous said...

Hirshel,
Who says that 17 wants "to maintain some standard of decency?"
Besides, when you were 17, did you?

Hirshel Tzig said...

when I was 17 things were different, people in CH had no time (or so I thought) to זינדיג because they were busy following the Rebbe.