Friday, June 17, 2005

Fighting students?



I always was under that impression that the Misnagdim took over the fight against the Mizrachi and the National Religious. They have become much more vocal over the last few years, lecturing about the evils of Zionism, how they do not recognize the State, etc. (Just show me the money)

Another impression I had was that both Aish and Ohr Someach were to be supported because they combat Chabad, and show the world how it "really should be done", making Baalei Tshuvah that is. They do not proselytize about the Rebbe, they do not teach Chassidus, they "stick to the basics", just getting them to be Fine Jews.

Was I surprised to see that according to their website, Aish HaTorah is going into the Hesder business, that's right, they're starting a new Hesder Yeshivah.

some of the highlights will include:
לימוד גמרא בעיון עפ"י שיטת "בירור הלכה" ו"הלכה ברורה" של מרן הראי"ה קוק זצ"ל. 1
גיוס צבאי .2
כמקובל בישיבות הסדר בתום שיעור ב' לישיבה אישור של ישיבת הסדר

So, where's the outcry? Where are those Rabbonim who support Aish Hatorah, members of the Charedi mainstream, who are so vehemently opposed to anything Chabad does?

But you already knew that.

60 comments:

Anonymous said...

You have to realize that when people are against Lubavitch it has nothing to do with misnagdim and chassidus - there are so many crazy issues that border on apikorsus in Lubavitch that makes people against Lubavitch. Being anti or pro zionist is irrelevant.

Go Snags! said...

The enemy of my emeny is my friend

CE said...

anonymous -
Can't you pick a name??? Or is that also apikorsus in your warped mind?
I don't think any of you pathetic excuses for Misnagdim would know apikorsus if it hit you in the head.
Your stupidity shines through with amazing clarity - please prove that there is an iota of apikorsus in Chabad chassidus... and don't say "Elokistin!," because they represent nothing but themselves.
Gimme a break.

ce said...

And the Satmar Rav Z"L was specifically opposed to the Lubavitcher Rebbe's postition on Zionism - not apikorsus.

Generations of Nesiei Chabad were a part of the Torah community, and not viewed as apikorsim by any of the gedolei Lita until suddenly a Litvak came to the US, and wanted to establish his Litvish-Yeshivish outlook as the domininat force for the future...

Anonymous said...

why'd ya'll assume I was a misnagid - i just might be a chassid who knows apikorsus when I see it.

Satmar Rebbe Reader said...

If you know anything about the what the Satmar Rebbe, do you know he said that Zionism is the biggest Apikorsus that ever existed.
CE wrote: Generations of Nesei Chabad were part of the Torah community - not until Beth Govoha came about - just until they started to sprout Apikarsus under the mantle of Chassidus. I can say this as an ex-Lubavitcher.
Elokistin - Mendel Schneerson started that whole thread of belief.

ce said...

Nameless one,
A misnaged does not mean a Litvak. It means "Misnagid" - look it up genius.

SR Reader,
Although R' Yoel held Zionism was apikorsus, the distinction that anonymous made had to do with Zionism or other apikorsus - but you'd need to be paying attention to realize that.

You may or may not be a former Chabanik, but it apparently does not make you an authority on the subject. The 7th Rebbe was not michadesh on the subject - these statements that you don't understand were said by previous Rabbeim all the way to the Alter Rebbe, and before.
In all honesty if you open any chassidshe sefer from talmidei hamaggid you're like to find more of the same.
But it seems that people wave become so lobotomized by the current thought control police, that if someone screams "India!" people burn sheitlach; if someone steps out of the party-line they attack Nosson Slifkik and his family in a manner reminiscent of Joe Stalin. Truly a pathetic state of affairs.

malach said...

Chabakuk Elisha, you make me laugh!
So the reason for the split between Lubavith and the yeshiva world is the founding of the Lakewood Yeshiva??Oy bistu a na'ar.You really overdosed on the Lubab kool aid.
The split between Lubavitch and the yeshiva world started from the time of the Rayat'z.

malach said...

Trying to understand CE's mind: So the 'Elokisten' represent only themselves (like, they got their ideas out of thin air..........)The Meshichisten? Oh they are fine ehrlicheh yidden............lol
Elisha do you still have an iota of truth or has ChabaD wiped it out?If you still do ask yourself why ONLY Lubavitch has people believing that their later Rebbe is a DEITY!!! WHY,WHY,WHY??(AND A VERY LARGE GROUP THAT SAYS HE IS STILL ALIVE,which equals a deity, in my book at least.)Does it have something to do with the Rebbes teachings,MAYBE?? (like saying that a rebbe is 'atzmus umahus?) Kool Aid for sale!!! behechsher badat'z decrown heights

ce said...

Malach,
I have no idea where you got the idea that I meant to say that it was the cause for the founding of the Yeshiva in Lakewood... maybe I wasn't clear - my Boro Park education must have left me with poor writing skills.

ce said...

Malach,
You should learn some of the Chassidus that Malochim allow, you will found out that there's a lot of quotes that will make you nervous.

ce said...

And this stupid & tired argument that you keep running up the flag pole, that the existance of crazy people proves the flaw is in the derech is not even remotely worth a response.
I think Moshiachistin are misguided, and it's a sad phenomenon - but they may very well all be ehrleche yiddin. How does being a Moshiachist make someone a apikores?

Anti said...

According to the SR Zionism was Apikorsus, so according to him ALL Litvishe Rabbonim, Roshei Yeshivah etc. were APIKORSIM, this includes

Harav Shach
HaRav ElYashiv
The Ponovizher Rov
Horav Elya Lopian
Horav SZ Auerbach
to name a few

Hirshel Tzig said...

Malach and friends
Shouting "Apikorsus" has become tiresome and overused. It's like Shvartzes who scream "racism", or Jews with "anti-semitism". A bunch of Am Ha'aretzim like yourselves are not the ones to define what is and isn't Apikorsus.

בלעסאפסקי said...

למלאך
אתה חתיכת צואה ונואף בידים
טפה סרוחה שחשוד על כל עבירות החמורות אתה ויעקב שמעון הם שתי ביצים והפאץ הוא מאיר וועבערמאן

Hirshel Tzig said...

Blesofsky
it's not your real name, we know that. Please refrain from using such language, as hard as it may be.

malach said...

Blesofsky:Am I choshud on making a 'getshka' too??'Chotsch dos nisht'

malach said...

Hirshel Tzig:Screaming 'menaged/misnaged' etc. is your panacea for anything you do not want to handle.

Chabakuk Elisha:So according to your logic, the fact that ONLY Lubavitch has produced people that believe their rebbe is a deity, is of no concern and proves nothing??
Elisha, what kind of 'fools paradise' do you live in?
(Btw, Lubavitch is not the only group were 'some' members turned theire leader in a 'getschka', the first Christians started this 'atsmus umahus' stuff, also known as the 'Holy Trinity', not all Christians accepted this, so maybe not all Lubavitchers will be swayed)

bpunbound said...

Congratulations Hirshel,

This must be some sort of a record. Only a few weeks in operation and we're already well on our way to the bottom of the barrel. What's your secret to succes?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I'm sorry, I don't remember using the term Misnaged very much if at all.

eli said...

Malach,
You sound pretty knowledgeable on your Xiantity... using your logic, I suspect that means Malochim are studying the gospels late at night.

bpunbound said...

Actually, Mr. Malach, the early Christians had no such belief, the doctrine of the trinity (as they refer to it) was not formulated until a few centuries after the events described in their "testament”.

Furthermore, I believe this "Atzmus umahus stuff", as you so poignantly refer to it, was in fact extended by the Rebbe to include all Jews, and is itself an expansion of the Alter Rebbe's Shitta as expounded in Tanya.

Finally, if you have this terrible need to flatulate, why not relief yourself at Hashkafa and spare us the agony.

ce said...

Malach, you're blinded by hatred my friend.
First of all, although I am not a member of their group, many, many, of the Moshichistin that you compare with yoshke freaks l'havdidl, are mehadir bemitzvos. They learn, daven, are careful about Kashrus, and are just as (and often more) meticulous about Yiddishkeit than the average frumme Yid. (Unlike the mamzer & his pals)
Secondly, do you know what Moshiachistin actually believe? And what makes it heretical?

Chaim said...

Malach,
If you open up any of the Seforim from Talmidei Hamagid in general, and specifically the Baal haTanya and his talmid R' Arele Stresheler you will find alot of Apikursos according to your defintion of apkiursos. But I dont expect that from you, you are just one of those machines that spit out everything they are fed, without using their inteleect to say the least.

AMSHINOVER said...

The SR felt the ramban,the radak and a slew of other rishonim were apikorsim,i'd rather be in hell with them then gan eden with him.
R. Menahem Kasher, in his Ha-Tekufah Ha-Gedolah, ch. 6 (pp. 95-115), addresses this issue at length. He quotes (p. 104 n. 28) the Satmar Rav's view with astonishment because it seems to label the views of Rishonim (medieval authorities) as heretical, as R. Kasher demonstrates at length.
The Ramban, in his Sefer Ha-Ge'ulah (Kisvei Ha-Ramban, vol. 1 p. 277ff.), discusses this issue at length and clearly considers R. Eliezer, the sage who said that redemption does not require repentance, to have been the winner of the debate. The Ramban continues with a discussion about how the good prophecies of redemption must come true regardless of how bad the Jewish people may or may not be, as opposed to bad prophecies that can be annulled. At no time does the Ramban mention the messiah. While he may be discussing an early stage of redemption, he is clearly speaking of redemption and not the arrival of Eliyahu or the messiah.
The Ramban's student, R. David Bonfil, in his commentary to Sanhedrin, states clearly that "there is no condition in the future redemption and it was a decree that contained a swear [which therefore must come true]." Again, he only talks of redemption and not the arrival of the messiah. And specifically without repentance. Furthermore, about this very issue he brings the verse(s) that the Rambam brings in Hilkhos Teshuvah.
The Radak, in his commentary to Isaiah (59:16), points out that the verses in Deut. 30 imply that repentance will precede the return from exile.
Clearly, there are rishonim who hold of this view that the Satmar Rav claims contradicts an explicit verse and is blatant heresy. His condemnation falls a bit flat after reviewing this evidence.

R. Kasher has more to say on this topic, and more proofs to his position . It is clear that, on this point, the Religious Zionist view(s) are not heretical and have substantial basis in the sources.
see http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2005/05/religious-zionism-debate.html
all 9 articles

Hirshel Tzig said...

Amshinover, you just re-proved your point. According to Satmar Rabbi Kasher was also an Apikores because he was a "Tziyoni"!

malach said...

Bpunbound, thank you.You are correct in pointing out, that the 'gospels' did not get to the 'atzmus umahus' stuff.This was done later on by their version of Elokisten/Meshichisten, probably when they decided to change Shabbos into Sunday(actually, I don't know when, so feel free to update)
Unfortunately, you are mistaken in regard to the 'azmus umahus' stuff.It is not the Tanyas 'chelek elokah mima'al mamosh' (to be honest,this is very difficult to understand, but.....)rather the Rebbes own interpretation of what a rebbe is 'atzmus umahus vos hot zich arayngeshtelt in a guf' the Rebbe goes on to explain that he has found no sources for this yet(I wonder why......)This 'atzmus umahus' stuff sounds like a variation of the 'holy trinity' theme.Actually, the Elokisten in Lubavitch believe in this very doctrine!!!(Look,I don't believe the Rebbe meant it this way, but his choice of words was dangerous and misleading.Actually, nobody has ever explained to me how to understand these words within any normative definition of Judaism, but I digress...)

malach said...

The meshichist ideology, while on the face of it is not 'apikorsus' but stupidity,is actually much more dangerous.If a human being cannot die i.e 'yechi' than in essence he is a deity, every creation 'dies' yes even Eliyohu Hanovis wife is permitted to remarry.A kid growing up in this new Lubavitch will thing that the Rebbe really is a deity omnipotent and omniscient.Actually the Lubab clearly say these things on their rebbe.
Elisha:Your 'proof' that 'moshichisten' are in many cases more 'mehaDER' in mitzvos in meaningless.Ask one of your Lubab mentors to show you were the Talmud says that though the Cuthites (a group of gentiles that were moved to eretz yisroel to inhabit the land vacated by the ten tribes who had been exiled.They were hit by a plague of human eating lions that caused them to convert to Judaism.)had a problematic status regarding their judaism the few mitzvos they kept, they were more machmir than jews.

malach said...

Elisha, your comment that I'm blinded by hatred was not very smart.Let me explain why:Since you agree that a person cannot see their flaws and biases(ein odom roeh nigei atzmo)It may very well be that you are the blinded one fed by the very prolific Lubavitch pr campaign.
Objectively,I could be biased and may be,however, the claims that Lubavitch is starting to resemble Christianity go back quite some time.Verification that the 'chochom odif menovee'Rav Schach was right when he told a chasidisheh yungerman:'livsof vellen zey dinnen avoidoh zoro' is unfortunately coming true with the Elokisten.Christianity took three hundred years to develop in a full fledged avodo zoro, if you give Lubavitch time, they will get there a lot sooner.Unless someone takes a stand and bans the 'apologists' who point out that the 'meshichisten' are fine jews.They are not!!!Where did the Elokisten come from?just a crazier form of meshichists

Chaim said...

Since malach insists on showing his ignorance on the subject, and does not want to know the truth, and only wants to keep on repeating the lies he was brainwashed and taught without being objective. I will post for everyone, various sources in Sifrei Chassidus where the concept of Atzmus U'Mehus regarding a Tzadik is found.
1) ספר ליקוטי מוהר"ן - מהדורא בתרא סימן סז:

כִּי כְּשֶׁזֶּה הַצַּדִּיק נִתְגַּלֶּה וְנִתְפַּרְסֵם בָּעוֹלָם, זֶה בְּחִינַת 'שֵׁם', דְּהַיְנוּ שֶׁנִּתְפַּרְסֵם וְיֵשׁ לוֹ שֵׁם בָּעוֹלָם, וּבְתוֹךְ זֶה הַשֵּׁם שֶׁל הַצַּדִּיק הָאֱמֶת מְלֻבָּשׁ וּמְשֻׁתָּף שְׁמוֹ יִתְבָּרַךְ, כִּי 'שְׁמוֹ מְשֻׁתָּף בִּשְׁמֵנוּ' (ד). נִמְצָא כְּשֶׁנִּתְגַּדֵּל שֵׁם הַצַּדִּיק, נִתְגַּדֵּל שְׁמוֹ יִתְבָּרַךְ, וְכָל מַה שֶּׁנִּתְגַּדֵּל יוֹתֵר שֵׁם הַצַּדִּיק, נִתְגַּדֵּל יוֹתֵר שְׁמוֹ יִתְבָּרַךְ, כִּבְיָכוֹל, כִּי שְׁמוֹ מְשֻׁתָּף בִּשְׁמֵנוּ כַּנַּ"ל. וְשֵׁם ה' הוּא בְּחִינַת (זְכַרְיָה י"ד):
"ה' אֶחָד וּשְׁמוֹ אֶחָד" כִּי שְׁמוֹ יִתְבָּרַךְ הוּא אַחְדוּת פָּשׁוּט, אַךְ לְמַטָּה מִשְׁתַּלְשֵׁל מִשְּׁמוֹ יִתְבָּרַךְ בְּחִינַת הָאַרְבָּעָה יְסוֹדוֹת, כִּי שְׁמוֹ אֶחָד יִתְבָּרַךְ הוּא בְּחִינַת אַרְבַּע אוֹתִיּוֹת הַשֵּׁם. וְעַל - כֵּן לְמַטָּה נִשְׁתַּלְשֵׁל מִשְּׁמוֹ יִתְבָּרַךְ בְּחִינַת הָאַרְבָּעָה יְסוֹדוֹת. וּמִתְּחִלָּה מִשְׁתַּלְשֵׁל מֵאַרְבַּע אוֹתִיּוֹת הַשֵּׁם בְּחִינַת תְּלָת גְּוָנִין דְּעֵינָא וּבַת עַיִן, וְאַחַר - כָּךְ מִשְׁתַּלְשֵׁל לְאַרְבָּעָה יְסוֹדוֹת. וּמִקֹּדֶם מִשְׁתַּלְשֵׁל לִבְחִינַת: 'צַדִּיק יְסוֹד עוֹלָם', שֶׁמִּמֶּנּוּ נִמְשָׁכִין כָּל הָאַרְבָּעָה יְסוֹדוֹת. וְזֶה: "רְאוּ כִּי קָרָא ה' בְּשֵׁם בְּצַלְאֵל" (שְׁמוֹת ל"ה) (ה) 'רְאוּ' דַּיְקָא, כִּי עַל - יְדֵי שֶׁנִּתְגַּלֶּה וְנִתְגַּדֵּל שֵׁם בְּצַלְאֵל, עַל - יְדֵי - זֶה 'רְאוּ', כִּי עַל - יְדֵי - זֶה נִפְתָּחִין הָעֵינַיִם וְרוֹאִים כַּנַּ"ל. וְזֶה: "כִּי קָרָא ה' בְּשֵׁם בְּצַלְאֵל", הַיְנוּ, כִּי ה' הוּא בְּשֵׁם בְּצַלְאֵל, כִּי שְׁמוֹ מְשֻׁתָּף בִּשְׁמֵנוּ, וְעַל - יְדֵי - זֶה רְאוּ כַּנַּ"ל:

2) ספר "אורח צדיקים" עמ' רצא בשם ספר "ספרן של צדיקים": שהרה"ק ר' אהרן מטשערנוביל זי"ע ביקש מאחיו הצעיר הרה"ק ר' יצחק מסקווירא זי"ע שיזכיר אותו בתפילותיו, השיב לו אחיו הר"י שבעת שאני אומר 'לשם יחוד קודשא בריך הוא ושכינתיה', במילות ושכינתיה אני מכווין אליך.

3) דברות קודש" של הרה"צ ר' מרדכי דוד אונגר שליט"א .

"והנה היום הוא יומא דהילולא של הרה"ק ר' מענדל מרימנוב זצוק"ל, וצדיקים אמרו עליו הגדרה נפלאה ונוראה, שהקב"ה נטל ד' אותיות משמו הוי' ב"ה והלבישם בקאלפיק ובגד משי, וזה היה הרה"ק ר' מענדל מרימנוב)מכאן דברי האדמו"ר שליט"א:) ועליו אמר הכתוב והתהלכתי בתוככם, שהשכינה היתה שרויה בו מרוב קדושתו".

malach said...

Bravo Chaim!
You are greater than the late Lubavitcher Rebbe! While the late Rebbe clearly said he had not seen his 'atzmus umahus' stuff mentioned our resident Go'on R'Chaim has some very clear sources!Thank you.
Btw there is a 'sefer' by the name of 'Briss Hachodosho' (aka The New Testament) I think you may find similar sources there.Next time I say 'lsheim yichud' which rebbel'eh should I have in 'zin'???
Am ho'oretz of the year award your silly Avodoh Zoroh post

Chaim said...

I wrote in the post that the sources werent for you, they were for people that want to be objective and look at things with an open mind. I knew that you cant do that, and would call this Avoda Zoro as well, so typical.

malach said...

Chaim, are you by any chance an Elokist?
Probably not, though even discerning people have a problem figuring out where a regular Chabadsker ends and an Elokist starts. My opinion:A older Lubavitcher will be a 'Chabadsker', with all the requisite 'meshugassen' his son will already be a 'Meshichist' and the eyneekel a border line 'Elokist'.
Chaim, keep up the work, I want to show my naive friends what even 'regular' Lubavitchers believe in.I need more sources (how about the one supposedly from R'Levy Yitzchok m'Barditshev, that one is 'allowed' to bow down to the picture of a 'tzadik'.............)Yishar ko'ach foon fo'rois.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Malach
why won't you address the sources?

770 bochur said...

1) The apikorsus did not begin from the time of the Rayatz. It began, at the very least, from the time of the Alter Rebbe, if not earlier. That's why we had choromim, halshonos, and so on and so forth - which did not begin from the time of the Rayatz.
(The jailing of the Rayatz, if I must remind you, were by true maaminim, who were not going to be rid of their Torah-true communist ideology by some two-bit (ח"ו) Rebbe that read ספרים חיצוניים (G-d forbid)).

2) Just in case there was any doubt, along came the #### from Bnei Brak and declared that the original חרם against Chassidim still applies, except only against Lubavitch. Needless to say, it is surprising to see him of all people דערהער the true point here, namely that we are the only ones who are close enough to דרך הבעש"ט to again merit their pathetic cherem.

malach said...

770 Bochur,
Are you an Elokist? (or is it your grandson or son who will ne one?)

Hirshel Tzig said...

Malach
I would appreciate if you would address the issues and answer questions posed to you. Stop repeating a bunch of dribble you heard on Hewes Street from a bunch of bitter souls.

malach said...

So I must 'answer' your silly kuf nun ta'amim to be matir Avodo Zoro?
Must I take seriously a silly bubbeh ma'aseh that some rebbe had in 'zin' his brother when he said 'ushchintei'?

Hirshel Tzig said...

You have to answer that you have Kashes on the Alter Rebbe as well but you overlook those. The first Misnagdim did not overlook them, but called them the Kat, meaning Apikorsim. We are not defending Elokisten, we aim to "defend" the Rebbe's words. You keep on repeating yourself even after your questions have been answered.

malach said...

Tzig&Co.
I have heard from mainstream Lubavitchers sayings which to me at least can only be equated with a belief in 'shituf'
For example Chabadskers claim that the Rebbe was omnipotent (unlimited power)and omniscient (all knowing).Mainstream Lubavitchers put a picture of the Rebbe under the baby during Milla.Many Lubavitchers have a picture of the Rebbe in their siddur etc......
What exactly is the difference between Elokisten (bad!!)and your average, even non meshichist Lubab, who says and practices the above?
Even the Elokisten are not saying that the Rebbe is Hashem, kipshuto.They are very similar to the Christian Trinity, which, when you look at it is very close to todays Lubavitcher ideologies.
A word to the wise:Almost all chasidic groups had zero to do with statements that deified their leaders.I challenge somebody to come up with such statements from the leading groups such as Gur,Aleksander etc. It's true that Chabad was always 'different' while chas vesholom not anything close to todays meshugoim/meshichisten/Elokisten, there were elements that 'scared' Gedoley Yisroel, hence:hisnagdus to Chabad (on a low scale, at the time)and full acceptance of other chasidic groups after a short period of suspicion.(bear in mind that the Jewish world was even than still suffering from 'miracle workers' such as Shabsai Tzvi, who, though long deceased, still had his followers.So the suspicion was quite understandable)
Anybody with an 'emmes' sees how precisely right those rabbonim were in Chabads case.The funny thing is:Even many of the so called 'normal'Chabadskers believe the Meshichisten/Elokisten are crazy, so one question for them:Where did they come from, Ponovitch?Slabodka???They came from your already twisted ideologies and just needed another 'knaitsh' to become full fledged 'shituf'

Hirshel Tzig said...

you still have not addressed the issues.

malach said...

There is one issue here.You and you fellow Lubavitcher have turned the Rebbe into a 'getschka'.I don't have to answer that, you do.
Enjoy the 'meshugoim' that you guys created.Frankenstein Meshichisten/Elokisten.They already own 770, and the largest yeshiva ,Tzfas, amongst many other things, including the 'Kahn Tzivo' Crown Heights Beth Din.How long until the own everything???(you have already conveniently taken cover in Boro Park)'Ad Mosai'!!??

n said...

malach,
you are right that we have infiltratated boro park and have recently laid the ground work for an insurgency in Williamsburg. We plan to get you, but it seems as if you already know this, and if not you at least a brother, son(s) or son in law(s). Give in, get used to the idea because this eventuality is your destiny...Yechi hamelech brother!

malach said...

N,firstly thanks for coming in!My naive friends still believe that some Lubavitchers mean well.As you guys come in to Boro Park they start raising eyebrows 'I thought Lubavitch were into kiruv, why are they trying to 'convert' frum, chassidishe people'??Why are they suddenly so 'generous' in spending money for lag ba'omer parades, obviously without any mention that it's Chabad?? etc. etc.
Also, up close they see how modern you guys are, how you guys hardly even speak yiddish.They still scratch their heads trying to understand why this so called 'chassidisheh yingerman' is wearing a short sleave blue shirt, suede pants and brown shoes.Together with a big 'tchup' and a suede kappel.THANK G-d they don't see what the 'rebbitzen' looks like!.
Auch mir chasidim!!
(btw, with great fanfare we are announcing that Chabad has opened a 'chabad house in Williamsburg at North.6 and Bedford Ave!!!)

Kurenitzer said...

Does Lubavitch have a problem with HESDER in terms of hashkofa and theology ?
In fact the question that should be asked is that for all the right wing rhetoric of certain Chabad elements in Israel and the USA in regards to the political issues of Israel, few Lubavitchers do standard army service or service like HESDER ?Suddenly they are charedim like the guys in Bnai Brak they are quick to attack and defer army service. Its nice and easy to call for extreme measures in security matters as long as other people have to do standard Army service.
Why not HESDER for Chabad too ?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I did not condone nor condemn Hesder. I did question the double standard of "mainstream" Yeshivos getting a green light to go Hesder. Is this so difficult to understand?

Anonymous said...

malach,
1) 'i thought they were only into kiruv..' for better of for worse we love frum yiden too!
2) 'lagbomer parades...not mentioning its chabad' the event was sponsored by Tzivos Hashem; the insignia was on every street poster..everyone knows that this is lubavitch..Rabbi Ginsburg who mc'ed the event can't be mistaken for anything but a lubavitcher...you even figured it out!
3) 'anyone can see how modern..can hardly speak yiddish' Lubavitchers in general have a lacking of yiddish not from making a choice to leave the yiddish language intentionally but rather as a side effect of going out to save the world from assilimation. You speak yiddish wonderfully, but how many lives have you rescued?
4) '...suede yarmulke' Boro park has its collection of chasidim who have a related version of aestetic deviation...its only more sophisticated..unique eyeglass frames, tidy beards, and assorted payos configuarations..the difference i believe is that with the lubavitcher he is picking it up from the goyim because he is not so fastidius about aestetic influence, while the boro parker has more internal influence from the goyim and wears his tidy sophisticated banner of mischief.
5) about the rebbitzen...be a bit more civilized..for your sake..we'd like to take you seriously.
6)'chabad at north 6th' is no big news. Chabad at Rodney, Chabad at Hewes...watch out malach!

n said...

malach, i'm not hiding..iposted previous.

avremel said...

Malach
Hafotzas Hamaayonos is the prime objective. Hafotzas HaYahadus inly came because nobody else lifted a finger

malach said...

n,why are you such a classic Chabadsker? When I said 'rebbetzin' I did not mean THE REBBETZIN SHNEERSON.What I simply meant is that if the naive boro park 'yingerman' scratches his head to understand, what this so called shliach chabad means, with his jeans, suede kappel etc, it's lucky that he does not see the female elements and their ideas of 'jewish modesty'.He would really have a problem understanding how Lubabs sell themselves as 'chasidish'.Kapish?

malach said...

Avremel:I want to come to Crown Heights to be 'mafitz' what is known as basic 'iveri'.Your so called 'rabbis' don't know basic ivri, ler alone your meshugoim you unleash on us every yom tov.Hafotzas hama'ayonos???Lol.

Avremel said...

You mean the great Talmidei chachomim like the Nirbaterer Rov who can't say a Posuk Chumash without 7 mistakes?

Lubavitch does only because nobody else does.

n said...

malach,
i think i understand you, therefore let me explain: Lubaitch is chassidish but not homogeneous like i suppose your group. We are a wide spectrum comprised of people who you would agree are chasidim to people who are not yet shomer shabbes but increasing in mitzvos who feel close to lubavitch. If you are critical about shluchim's (one of the brigades of lubavitch in this suffering generation)aestetic chasidshkeit, you are right in some cases that there are shluchim and their wives who don't maintain a boro park standard dress, but i don't know any shluchim who wear jeans and a suede yarmulke, etc. Since you post as a 'chassidsh authority on chabad' i challege you to do some real homework and travel and get to know ten shluchim..and get back to us. You'll learn a lot. be careful though, it could change your entire life...and i don't mean that you'll put on jeans

yoili kukush said...

n
Malach doesn't want the truth

HE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

he'd rather go to a Hamas training camp.

Anonymous said...

yoili, i have high hopes for malach

malach said...

yoili kukush said... ,
So what is the truth?
That the Rebbe is secretly hiding out with Elvis, preparing new Moshiach songs??
The truth is:Nebach, Lubavitch is ingantzen meshuga gevoren.Yechi Hamelech!
(or do you say Yechi Boreinu??)

n said...

malach, i'm writing you off if you don't get a hold of yourself. Its in hashems hands now (i'm lubavitch but i don't mean actual hands malach)....refua shlaima ..

16th Ave guy said...

Hey!
I think Malach is the gabbi of my shul!

Hirshel Tzig said...

is he that bad in shul?

n said...

16ner,
yoy're like a firehydrant just crashed into...gabbai is not in this category...