Thursday, June 23, 2005

Nothing new here


According to our newly-found friend A Litvshe Yid, this Chabad hatred has been going on even when we didn't think it was. He quotes a post on Hirhurim quoting a Brisker Talmid who heard it from Rabbi Avrohom Yehoshua Solovetchik, the torch-bearer of the Brisker attack brigade. I understand that it's not a first hand report, but coming from AJS I can believe it.

"Reb Elchonon Wasserman asked Reb Chaim Soloveitchik how is it that Rav Kook (who he knew) could go so far off the derech (huh?) when everyone knows that he davens with such Kavana & fasts most of the week! RCS answered him "Dayge Nisht, Der Chabadske Apikoyrus is a Baal Gayve, Un Er Est Gants Gut!".

We all know of the Rabbeyim's connection with Bais Volozhin-Brisk. from the times of Reb Itzele Volozhiner things had gone well between the two families. The Rabbeyim spent much time with the Rabbonim of Volozhin-Brisk, and I would imagine held each other in some esteem. There is a story told of the Frierdige Rebbe sharing his opinion of "Misnagdim" with Reb Chaim and the Rebbe Rashab when the word was mentioned, but that's an exception to the rule. The Brisk-Volozhin family was seen as "nit-Chassidim" rather than "misnagdim."

Which raises the question: Why bring up the Chabad connection to Rav Kook when criticizing him? not to mention the connection was somewhat indirect, his mother being from a Chabad family. Was it all just a show ? and why the need to be so degrading as to insult him personally?

20 comments:

eli said...

You believe that quote?
I don't think it's factual - anyone can say anything these days. Show it to me in writing, then ask me again.

badsker said...

Rav Kook was a great Tzaddik. he didn't walk lock step with the main stream, so he takes a beating (probably more now then he did in his lifetime), and because of the loose Chabad connection "they" throw that in to further push their cause.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Eli
if it was said at a Shiur how can I have it in writing?

Rachack said...

is that picture for JAZ the only picture of the Brisker Rav on the entire internet?

Good post by the way.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Rachack

it's the only one I found under a google image search. I can try to scan a new one, but why bother?

Anonymous said...

See what the Rebbe said about Kook...

look in 91/2 mystics by Herbert Weiner

Der ayzel said...

Doesn't this work both ways? Don't chasidim etc make dispariging comments about misnagdim?

Hirshel Tzig said...

I did mention that, Ayzel, but Reb Chaim himself should say that? and why mention Chabad?

Der ayzel said...

I could just hear gedolei hachasidim talking like that about some misnaged, or MO who once learned by them.

It's would not surprise me at all.

Litvshe said...

My post was, in effect, disproving R' Chaim ever said that. He certainly wouldn't have disparaged R' Kook for being a Chabadnik. R' Kook and R' Yosef Yitzchak certainly disagreed on Zionism. RYYSh was very anti, if I recall. That isn't to say they didn't have a good relationship, which is one of the great things about R' Kook. He was able to have a close relationship with Jews of all hashkafos and levels.
That said, historically speaking, I was under the impression that there was no wide spread disrespect for Lubavitch until the latter part of the 7th Rebbe's reign. While there may have been a certain amount of disagreement in the teaching of Toras HaSod, the Rebbeyim were widely respected by most other frum yiddin. So the use of Chabad as a perjorative term also surprised me.

avremel said...

The fact that the Rav Kook could have relationships with others who disagreed with him is nothing new, it's that others who disagreed with him, that they could have some sort of dialogue without calling all types of names, this is what is lacking today. Anybody with a different opinion is quickly labeled as an Apikorus.

bochur said...

Even from this crowd, this sounds like horse****. Definitely worth checking out before starting a whole conversaton about it.

jb said...

BALONEY! That statement is surely bogus.
Modern-day Likvaks may buy it, but anyone with any knowledge of the Soleveitchik-Schneerson relationship would know that this quote is false.
The only thing that might be true, is that somoene confused the names and it was a different Litvak who the annecdote is about.

hmmm said...

Lit, disrect for Lubavitch was widespread until the time of the third Rebbe. From then it was dormant until the arrival of the pleitim to America, 1940 and on. Which was the last third of the reign of the 6th Rebbe.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Dormant, yet waiting to explode onto the scene.....

Anonymous said...

btw, didn't all the Roshei Yeshiva say that the Cherem of the Gro still remains on Chabad?

Anonymous said...

It sure seems like Chabad takes all the Chasidishe heat.

Anonymous said...

If the Gro was around today forget about it.

1)lakewood would blow up.

2)the whole Yeshiva system would go into diabedic shock.

3)All food would be non kosher.

and you think there would be problems with habad.

habad is the only one doing anything. where are the litvak houses? todays litvaks and chasidim are a joke. it is funny that the only way they have to justify their lack of work is to define themselfs as not the other guy. if the Gro was alive today he would not ban chabad. The great Gro would want to throw the whole system in the ban!!!

Avremele said...

AJ shouldn't be trusted about anything Brisk. Long live Rav Meshulam Dovid!!!

Vitebsker said...

"It sure seems like Chabad takes all the Chasidishe heat."

...Which proves that it is most authentic.

Anyway, Hershel, do you actually believe this Bubbe Mayseh. It's just some more propaganda, just like the story of the Brisker Rov and Bosi Legani..