Photo from here
S'iz "Mir" Nisht Gut
(I'll write this piece in piecemeal style; adding bits and pieces as time allows. So check back for updates, please.)
Yes, we're speaking about another secession battle in a Litvishe Yeshivah, but this seems to have a very unique twist, one that goes back many years, maybe Sixty-Plus years. Yes, this all comes out after the passing of Reb Shmuel Berenbaum z"l, but it can be traced all the way back to the founding of the Mirrer Yeshivah on the shores of America in 1946. Much of what's happening now is based on what happened then; who took charge and who was left out in the cold, their history with the Yeshivah not withstanding. Some of you asked why Reb Leib Malin and the Alte Mirrers started their own little Yeshivah in Bensonhurst when he could've joined the existing Mir on Ocean Parkway. Some of you answered that their idea was to start a smaller, more serious operation, not what was going up on Ocean Pkwy. Ocean Pkwy was an affluent neighborhood, and pretty much still is to this very day. That's what Beis HaTalmud became and is to this very day; a small community of Bnei Torah who are Mistapkim BeMuat and lead an exemplary life of Torah and Yiras Shomayim.
The real question is not what happened to the Malins etc. but what happened to "Reb Chatzkel." Any student of Jewish History will tell you that Reb Chatzkel Levenstein spent the Six years that Mir was in Golus Kobe/Shanghai with his Talmidim. He also made the trip to America, as opposed to Reb Lazer Yudel Finkel and Reb Chaim Shmulevitch z"l, who went to Eretz Yisroel. Reb Lazer Yudel and Reb Avrohom Kalmanovitch made it out earlier, and never had the Golus experience that the others had. Today all that remains of Reb Chatzkel in America is his Eynikel R' Lazer Ginsburg; otherwise I'd venture to say that most Mirrer Talmidim don't know that Reb Chatzkel was here in America. (I'm going out a limb here, so don't hold it against me) So if Reb Chatzkel was here in America why didn't he stay? Couldn't he have accomplished more on these shores like many others who stayed accomplished? I was later informed by e-mail of Reb Chatzkel writing in his letters that he couldn't take the materialism of America, and that he couldn't see America as a Mokom Torah. That may be post factum writing; I can't see why he so differed from his contemporaries who all thought it quite possible. Seemingly what's going on today in Mir - namely a very quite yet very apparent battle for the Yeshiva's leadership - has it roots in the very founding of the Yeshivah on these shores. Yet, for some reason, there's a very strange twist that needs to be explored.
Reb Avrohom Kalmanovitch was Rov of Tiktin and President of the Mirrer Yeshivah. He was not Rosh Yeshivah. Yes, he saved the Yeshivah from certain death, but he wasn't Rosh Yeshivah. It seems like in America, once he was here and the Bochurim were arriving he felt that now the Yeshivah is his - President, Menahel, Rosh Yeshivah, it's all the same, the Yeshivah is his. When Reb Chaim and Reb Chatzkel came there were differences of opinion as to who should lead, and Reb Chaim and Reb Chatzkel didn't stay. They say that Reb Lazer Yudel didn't allow his daughter and grandchildren - Reb Chaim's wife and kids - travel to America to join their father/husband, so he went to them. I think the fact that Reb Chatzkel left even the Yerushalayimer Mirrer Yeshivah as soon as Rav Dessler passed away in 5714 - basically at first opportunity - tells us that maybe he wasn't happy with the situation in the Mir anywhere - or maybe they with him....
44 comments:
''There's alot more to say here. Soon, iy"h.''
Seems like you are gleefully looking to report some zaftigeh loshon hora and rechilus,but,PLEASE, why are you mixing in the Aibeshter? 'Soon im yirtseh Hashem'.....I don't think Hashem wants you to blog loshon hora and machloikess
Binyomin
There's no zaftige L"H, only certain events that need to be recounted. I'm not a LH blog.
>>I'm not a LH blog.
I urge you to review things you have written about Rav Shach on this blog--a gadol hador who you refer to as moron.
anonymous
had I wanted to I could've sat here all day and posted LH about Litvishe and Satmare, and that would make me very, very popular. I don't. Agree?
Moron=מרן
Do not let your heart be troubled. Some guy posts the cyber-space equivalent of idle Mikveh reid, one mans opinions of who will contend and who is fit for the job, and you anticipate an ugly succesion battle???
Meheikeh tayseh?
Whether or not the secession battle becomes ugly depends on one man, the Brother in law of the Chief Rabbi of the Ukraine....
Cynics in the past used to say that when a Rosh yeshiva passes on its a crying loss as there is not one person who can take over in terms of lomdus , but when a rebbe dies its a simcha as you have 5 new rebbes !
I guess we really are in the Messianic age in a olam hafuch, IN Lubavitch there is no one to take over but the major Torah Centers all have multiple candidates for Mi berosh like Ponoviesz, Da Mir, Chevron, Grodna etc
Hopefully all this will be settled in a peaceful manner.
In Lubavitch there has always been a retisance diKedusha in assuming leadership.
Each dor was not in a hurry to assume leadership and felt unworthy. This led to the end of Kopust, Liady, and Nizhin. (Even in our generation there was a rabbi Barbash in Tel Aviv an eynikel of the Bobroisker who was raui to be a rebbe but was a lelever chasid)The children and grandchildren although scholars felt unworthy to accept the nesius. The same in Lubavitch , with the Rashab, and so on. The Ryaatz Had to accept leadership as the times DEMANDED it.
Sad. You Chasidim have become so accustomed to the chillul hashem that follows the death of a rebbe, you've forgotten who you are.
Study history.
The Chasidic movement was designed to attract the rabble and so it did. The Chasidic rabble tradition continues today as evidenced by the behavior of its followers, e.g. Satmar, Lubavich, Bobov, Skver, etc.
The Mir is a continuation of the Misnagdic tradition which prizes scholarship and discipline over all else. You will not witness an undignified public display. Disagreements, if any, will be resolved al pi halacha and in private.
Observe and learn.
There are at least five people that pretend to be Chief Rabbis of Ukraine.
3 that I know of. I speak of the Stoliner.
''There's no zaftige L"H, only certain events that need to be recounted. I'm not a LH blog.''
Why do the events 'need to be recounted' ??
Stop being a phony, you want to spread loshon hora and rechilus:You are not the Tzadik of the Tanya yet who has no yetser hora.You have a tayva to baredt other Jews, you are a baal bechira, it's your choice.Don't mix Hashem into it and don't make it sound like having this on your blog will do any good.
Lastly, remember your own word 'need to be recounted' when someone will feel 'the need' to spread losho hora, rechilus about you and yours.Remember that 'bemido sheodom moded ,modedim loi' .If only we treated others, in the way we wanted to be treated...
Peace, brother.
Brother Binyomin
I can see that you're serious about your Tokhakhah, and that you mean my good. I appreciate that, really I do. But I think you're overreacting before I even said anything. Wait till I write.
Rabbi B last I heard went under "Chief Rabbi of Kiev", not of all Ukraine.
See Here
Binyomin's comments are great examples of how an erlicher yid expresses a critical opinion. It is evident from his tone that his sincere purpose is az der yinyan zol zach ufton, he is not out to step on another Jew. Hence the reaction he gets is respect (even if there is no agreement). Btw, I usually do not follow the sort of topics covered by this post and am not opining on the matter itself.
i read the comments in an effort to get an insight to the post which i don't know anything about in the first place, and there in nothing but a waste of time....
nu,
spill the beans tzig.
Anon (use a freak'n pseudonym for pete's sake) writes:
The Mir is a continuation of the Misnagdic tradition which prizes scholarship and discipline over all else. You will not witness an undignified public display. Disagreements, if any, will be resolved al pi halacha and in private.
i'm sure mir has the wonderful precedence of it's illustrious big brother poneveyzh. does markovtz v. kahaneman ring a bell...?
it was all roses and butterflies there, eh?
N
"waste" is relative to what you were doing before reading the comments...
;-)
" Some of you asked why Reb Leib Malin and the Alte Mirrers started their own little Yeshivah in Bensonhurst when he could've joined the existing Mir on Ocean Parkway."
Your facts are lacking here.
As I commented in a recent thread, Beis Hatalmud was in East New York (then an 'ir viem biYisroel' and a more intensely Jewish area than the Ocean Parkway & KH vicinity) and only later moved to Bensonhurst when the area declined. Beis Hatalmud predated the Ocean Parkway Mir I believe, and was a different type of maysed.
Ocean Parkway was/is a more affluent area than East New York/Brownsville and maybe the newly arrived Mirrers didn't fit in as well there (economically, religiously) as in the latter area.
"Yes, we're speaking about another secession battle in a Litvishe Yeshivah, but this seems to have a very unique twist, one that goes back many years, maybe Sixty-Plus years"
Sure.
This is all about one thing, and one thing only.
Oisvorf Kalmanowitz taking back a yeshiva that (for all practical purposes) was built by Rav Shmuel Berenbaum.
Yes kalmanowitz "saved" the yeshiva.....but stole it the same time.
Rav Shmuel plugged away in learning and built it all up himself.
He was never goires his brother-in-law R' Shraga Moshe Kalmanowitz (R' Avrohom's son), and now it's all coming to roost.
"It's Kalmanowitz time".
At least that's what they "think".
Big surprises, Asher K.
BIG.
(Oh, and I KNOW he's reading this stuff.....him and Pinter AKA: Convicted Crook Leib Pinter)
So put your sunglasses on, lean back, and get ready for the fun to begin.
Maran=מרן is MUCH better than Moron=מרן
It has nothing to do with Ashkenazi pronounciations, because it's not "Sephardish" to say Maran=מרן and that is why you will never see all the Charedishe newspapers and books ever use "moron" for "maran" because not only is it not correct it is also a loshen g'nai in English, that should be avoided, just as noone says that = חב"ד
חמור בלי דעת
FYI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vInkj6gAil0
So put your sunglasses on, lean back, and get ready for the fun to begin.
What's up with sunglassses?
>>He also made the trip to America, as opposed to Reb Lazer Yudel Finkel and Reb Chaim Shmulevitch z"l, who went to Eretz Yisroel.
Incorrect, Rav Chaim Shmeulevitch was with R' Chatzkel in Kobe and traveled with him to America. He was in the Mir in Brooklyn for some time. Rav Lezer Yudel requested that he return to E'Y, and he did. There was originally talk about Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz being the Rosh Yeshiva of Mir in Brooklyn together with Rav kalamnovitch.
I know he came here. They all did. They arrived in S Francisco and came to New York (all those who stayed in Shanghai) I was just under the impression that he left for EIsrael immediately. He was Reb LY's SIL, so one can understand him traveling there.
R'Chaim lived in Brooklyn for six months.
R'Shmuel Berebaum was a son in law of R'Avrohom Kalmanovitz.So what exactly is your point?
R'Osher Berenbaum is also a son in law by his uncle R'Kalmanovitz from Bnei Brak, so he is there from both sides.
Tzig, when you write that R'Chatzkel may have written his letters against America 'post facto' you are being very disrespectful.You also show that you have no idea about the man.
I'm also wondering what would happen if somebody wrote the same thing about the Lubavitcher Rebbe, where he appeared to change his mind when it came to certain issues which did not sound very popular.I''ll give you two examples:The Previous Rebbe saw the holocaust as a punishment for sins, years later the Rebbe railed against people saying such things.Also the position on Zionism seemed to have made quite a radical change.
"The Previous Rebbe saw the holocaust as a punishment for sins."
Not true... The Previous Rebbe's call was for the American Jews to take on the observance of teiroh and mitzveis so that their zechus would help the Jews trapped in Europe. His main call was lealter liseshuvo - leatler legeuloh.
This not at all like the 'people' (those the Rebbe later criticized) who drew parallels to Holocaust right before the Gulf War and said that Holocaust came as a punishment for the sins of the Jews.
The Previous Rebbe was talking about bringing about more zechueis for yidden, he was saneigurom shel yisroel, he was not matzdik es hadin; that other person took upon himself to be a kateigor, both against his contemporaries as well as for the generation of the Holocaust...
Berl, Unless you want to play the (arguably intellectually dishonest) game of divorcing the Rayatz from Hakreiah VeHekedusho (HK), there is ample evidence that the Rayatz' view through HK was not "only" that the yidden through the Shoah were suffering punishment because of sin, but that he and his Sheiris Hapleito were specifically chosen to survive to bring the Geulo immediately after. The view has been put forward that this was the way the (understandably depressed) Rayatz could theologically make meaning of such a horrific calamity. We've been "polishing the buttons" for a long time. Hashem has His plans. It is not alwyas tzaddik gozer vehakodosh boruch hu mekayem.
Even if you wanted to make the rather tenuous argument that HK was "separate", the Rayatz definitely would have objected when such things were written in HK. He didn't. (The last Rebbe didn't like things put that way) Reb Avrohom Levit, the editor of HK, worked closely with the Rayatz and HK was the official organ.
type in miryeshivanews in google great blog
Issac
It would be nice if you can scan in your facts fro HK, laughing from Tzadik gozer is kefira in Chazal, not only in Rayatz ZYA
Hi anonymous,
I am not sure where you gathered that I was laughing from Tzadik Gozer. I stated what I think is a normative view, that Hashem has His plan and unfortunately, even Moshe Rabbeinu couldn't anul it.
I am intrigued by your comment that it is KEFIRA to hold that Tzadik Gozer does not always happen according to the way the Tzadik indeed was gozer.
Finally, by all means if you want to see the HK quotes can I suggest an easy way is to read the excellent article from Gershon Greenberg entitled "Redemption after the Holocaust according to Machane Israel Lubavitch, 1940-1945" in Modern Judaism 12(1), 1992, pp 61-84.
to herschel tzig,it looks like you don't know of something called GEHENIM,you could also get a ONESH on this world,have pitty on your self and stop writing your garbage.
TO KLAL YISRAEL.
I WOULD LIKE TO NOTIFY THE PEOPLE WHICH ARE NOT FROM MIR YESHIVA TO IGNORE THE NASTY BLOG FROM MR. SNAG 3 I GUESS THAT HE DOESN'T REALLY KNOW TO MUCH ABOUT THE MIR YESHIVA,OR HE MUST OF HAD A ISSUE WITH THE ROSH HAYESHIVA HORAV A. KALMANOVITS SHLITA.
EVERYBODY FROM YESHIVA LOVES THE ROSH HAYESHIVA SHLITA WHICH IS REALLY MOSER NEFESH KAL KULO LESHAIM SHOMAYIM FOR EVERY SINGLE BACHUR OF YESHIVA,IN RUCHNIYUS AND GASHMIYUS OF THE YESHIVA HAKDOSHA,HE IS LIKE A FATHER TO EVERY BACHUR.
HE EVEN HELPS OUT THE POOR BACHURIM WITH MONEY TO BUY CLOTHING ETC.(I DON'T THINK YOU WILL FIND TO MANY OTHER ROSHEI YESHIVA WHICH DO THIS).
AND EVEN AFTER THEY LEAVE YESHIVA THEY ALL COME BACK TO SPEAK EVERY THING OVER WITH HIM,AND IF SOME ONE NEEDS MONEY FOR HIS CHASUNA ETC. HE IS THE ADDRESS,I MY SELF KNOW OF A FEW YUNGELEIT WHICH HE HAD PAID FOR THEIR CHASUNA.ETC.
WE AS TALMIDIM OF YESHIVA ALL KNOW THE TRUTH,ASK ANY TALMID OF THE YESHIVA.
FOR SOME REASON MR. SNAG 3 HAS NOTHING TO WRITE ABOUT THE ROSH HAYESHIVA,ALL HE COULD DO IS TRY TO BUILD OTHER PEOPLE AND WITH THAT TO KNOCK OTHER PEOPLE.
MR. SNAG 3 WRITES "HE SAVED THE YESHIVA...BUT INTHE SAME TIME HE STOLE"
SAY WHAT DID THE R.Y. STEEL?
EVERY BODY KNOWS THE R.Y. DOESN'T TAKE A EXTRA PENNY FROM YESHIVA.
I REALLY SHOUDN'T OF RESPOND,BUT I JUST WANTED THE OLAM HATORAH TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
MR. SNAG 3, IS BUSY THAT THERE IS A SECESSION BATTLE IN YESHIVA,FOR SOME REASON NOBODY IN THE YESHIVA KNOWS ABOUT IT.
AFTER FOLLOWING UP WHO IS MR. SNAG 3,I FOUND OUT THAT HE IS ONE OF YHE FAMOUS RESHOIM WHO WHERE INVOLVED IN TRYING TO BE MACHRIV THE YESHIVA A FEW YEARS AGOWHICH INCLUDES THROWING PAPERS ABOUT ROSHEI YESHIVA,CHASING THE BACHURIM OF THE YESHIVA ETC.
IF THERE WILL BE A NEED THAT PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW HIS FULL NAME I WILL LET EVERY BODY KNOW.
dear blog author. i beg you, have rachmanus on your self and your neshama.
its not worth the nachas that you have from your self for a few moments after putting on a blog which is full of motzie shaim ra about gedolei yisrael,especially which give away their life for the whole klal.
there was a story with a yungerman which lives in yerushalayim,he had a baby which was born without hands and feet r"l.he didn't know what to do.he went to horav chaim kanievsky and told him what happened.r' chaim asked him were you mevaze a talmid chacham?
he started to think,and he couldn't remember,so r'chaim said when you remind your self then come back to me.a few days later he reminded him self that when he was a bachur he inbarest one of his roshei yeshiva. so he ran back to r' chaim and told him,and he started crying to r' chaim what should i do.
r'chaim said there is nothing to do any more about this baby because chazal say "KOL HAMEVAZE TALMID CHACHAM AIN REFUAH LEMAKASO",but that it should not happen again you should make a minyan by the kever of your r.y. and ask him machila.
there is alot of such stories,its just not worth it,so just use your brains that hashem gave you,and take out the blogs which talk against gedolei yisrael.
and ask them mechila before its to late.
in the zechus of being misgaber on your yatzer hara,you will merit hapiness helth vechal mishalos libcha letova.
from the deepness of my heart A YID
FORGET MIRYESHIVANEWS THATS THE LITTLE STUFF...
...THE FUN IS AT MIRRERYESHIVANEWS.BLOGSPOT.COM
I wish I knew what the big deal is. All I say is that there were differences in the Mir and that Roshei Yeshiva etc. didn't get along. I'm not digging up dirt. It's quite normal for people working together to have differences of opinion.
TO MR. HIRCHEL TZIG,DON'T MAKE A FOOL OF YOUR SELF EVERY BODY SAW THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DIG UP SOME DIRT.ALL YOU WERE ABLE TO SAY WAS THAT HE IS THE BROTHER IN LAW OF THE CHIEF RABBI OF UKRAINE.
I REALLY GOT CHILLS AS I WAS READING THE BLOG TO THE AUTHOR FROM ANONYMOUS ON TUE. JAN. 29 9:23.SO EVERY BODY IT IS TIME TO STOP WRITING SUCH SHTUSIM ABOUT OUR GEDOLIM WHICH STAND READY TO DO ANY THING FOR US DAY AND NIGHT.
I AM A TALMID OF THE MIR, IWAN'T TO NOTIFY EVERY BODY I AGREE TO THE LETTER WRITTEN TOKLAL YISROEL BY ANONYMOUS, ALL TALMIDIM OF YESHIVA KNOW THAT THE ROSH HAYESHIVA MARAN HAGAON HORAV OSHER KALMANOVITS SHLITA SITS AND LEARNS THE WHOLE DAY IN YESHIVA ANDIS AVAILABLE FOR THE BACHURIM 24 HRS.
AND BESIDES THAT HE IS THE ONE WHO IS ALSO CARYYING THE BURDEN OF YESHIVA BEGASHMIYUS WITH A UNBELIVABLE MESIRUS NEFESH. AND HIS ONLY GOAL IS TO BE MEKADESH SHAIM SHOMAYIM,IT DOESN'T NEED ANY RAYOS "POK CHAZI".
IT SEEMS LIKE THE PERSON WHO IS TRYING TO WRITE AGAINST THE ROSH HAYESHIVA SHLITA HAS IN MIND TO GET PEOPLE TO LOOK AT SOME ONE WHO FEELS HE NEEDS SOME ATTENTION.
BUT LET ME TELL YOU MY DEAR FREIND "EVERY BODY KNOWS THE TRUTH" AND THATS WHY IT HURTS YOU SO MUCH.
THE WORLD SAYS IN THE NAME OF ONE OF THE AMOLIGA GEDOLIM THAT A GAOL WHICH DOESN'T HAVE ANY SONIM IS NOT A GADOL.SO ALL YOU ARE DOING IS SHOWING EVERY BODY HOW BIG THE ROSH HAYESHIVA SHLITA IS.
OISVORF SNAG 3, YOU ARE TALKING SUCH BALONI,RABBI KALMANOWITZ IS A VERY BIG TALMID CHACHAM AND YEREI SHAMAYIM.HE NEVER BATHERD ANY BODY,HE IS ONLY BUSY BUILDING THE YESHIVA AND BIENG AVAIABLE FOR THE KLAL.
HE WAS MOSER NEFESH FOR AT LEAST THE PAST 15 YEARS FOR YESHIVA,EVEN WHEN YOU OISVORF WITH YOUR FREINDS WHICH DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YESHIVA BESIDES TRYING TO DESTROY IT.
SO NOW TAKE YOUR FREINDS,AND LOOK FOR A DIFFRENT MOSED MAY BE IT WILL BE EASIER FOR YOU.
JUST "GET LOST".
WHY DO YOU ALWAYS WRITE IN CAPS??????
AND WHY IS REB SHMUEL NOT ENTITLED TO HAVE HIS CHILDREN TAKE HIS PLACE? DID HE NOT DO ENOUGH FOR MIRRER YESHIVAH FOR 60 YEARS?????
Tzig, it's pretty obvious that the same person is writing all the above comments.
His name is ------, and he married ----- from Ocean Parkway...... (-----'s brother-in-law).
Seems that he stuck his nose in other people's business, and will now pay dearly.
Apparrently, he also opened a blog to publicly accuse someone birabim by name, when he clearly has no proof to such a thing.
We on the other hand have proof which can hold up in a court of law that he started these blogs.
He was warned to stop, but refuses to do so.
Guess it's time for phase 2.....
TO MR. HIRSCHEL TZIG.
I'M A TALMID OF THE MIR, I WROTE THE LETTER THAT I AGREE TO THE FROM ANONYMOUS WHICH WRITES TO KLAL YISRAEL.....
I DIDN'T WRITE THE OTHER ONES.
I LIKE WRITING IN CAPS,ITS MUCH EASIER,AND I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO WRITE IN CAPS.
MR. TZIG. I WILL REPEAT WHAT I WROTE BEFORE,"YOU HAVE ABSOLUTLY NO IDEA WHAT WENT ON AND WHATS GOING ON IN THE MIR YESHIVA".
NO BODY SAID THAT R' SHMUEL ZATZALS CHILDREN ARE NOT ENTITLED TO TAKE HIS PLACE.
I JUST WAN'T TO ASK YOU,DO YOU THINK THAT SOME ONE WHO WAS FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL IN THE ELEMENTRY IS THE RIGHT PERSON FOR IT?
DO YOU THINK THAT SOME ONE WHO WAS TRYING TO BE MACHRIV THE YESHIVA IS THE RIGHT PERSON?
DO YOU THINK THAT SOME ONE WHO IS A FRIEND IN THE GROUP OF THE MECHARCHEREI RIV WHICH THRU PAPERS AGAINST THE YESHIVA,AND CHASED BACHURIM IN THE STREETS IS THE RIGHT PERSON?
SO DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT HE SHOULD BECOME A ROSH HAYESHIVA?
THE ENTIRE WORLD IS LAUGHING OR MAYBE CRYING WHEN THEY HEARD THAT HE IS GOING TO TAKE HIS FATHERS PLACE.
I THINK ITS A WASTE OF TIME TO FIGHT WITH YOU HERE.
WRITE WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT WHO EVER YOU WANT.
I HAVE NO GEDULD ANY MORE TO FIGHT SOME ONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT THE TOPIC
IN THE REAL WORLD EVERY BODY KNOWS THE TRUTH.
SO GOOD BYE
Post a Comment