Friday, January 18, 2008

No need to improve......



Hirshel is a curious guy by nature, he likes to find out who people are. Not their finances and family troubles, just the Yichus HaMishpochoh and such. I also enjoy discussing their backgrounds and communities, and I reciprocate by telling them about myself and my background too. So when a young Yeshivish-looking man began to frequent our shul I was interested to know who he was and what he was thinking, and why he'd come daven in a Lubavitcher shul. After all, the fact remains that most Yeshivishe guys would rather walk a few extra minutes than go to a Chabad shul, and vice versa; a Lubavitcher would walk a long way to go to a Lubavitcher shul. Of course the Tzig has no problem davening anywhere at all, from Tunisian to Teimani to Tartikov to Tcharna-Ostroh and everything in between; Hirshel's seen it all, but that's what makes him so special....

It turns out that I didn't need to approach him, since he approached me. We sat next to each other one Friday Night and I hung around after Davenen, while some others rushed home to get home and make Kiddush before Six O'clock. I explained that concept as best I could, and I hope he accepted it for what it's worth. Since then we usually sit and Shmooz whenever we see each other, about different topics and issues, sometimes even at the expense of me getting a Chelek when I get home; Ober Vos Toot men Nisht Far A Bissel Ahavas Yisroel? He's a newly-married Yungerman from a Yeshivishe community who married a local girl and now learns in Kolel here. Now, before you accuse me of trying to "convert" him, remember this: I don't run after him - he comes to where I daven, and I almost never initiate the conversation - he does. I'd say he comes back for two reasons: 1) Convenience. The shul is just down the block from his house, and he can sit by himself and daven quietly. 2) having a bunch of Lubavitchers just down the block piqued his interest; he's only heard about them, and never came in contact with them before. He know wants to see what these people are all about.

Last week we were shmoozing, and the conversation turned to me, and how I got to Lubavitch. I didn't tell him the long Megilleh I told you all here, I just told him that as a young Bochur I was searching for a way and this is what I found. I believe I mentioned my age too, which really shocked him; "how can I decide on my way in life at such a young age," was what he wanted to know. He then went on to tell me about his circles, and that there's basically no such thing as looking for a derech; this is where you are, and this is where you'll be for the rest of your life. Nobody looks for something else, the most you could do is maybe grow bigger Peyos.... Why would you look elsewhere? he says, this is where you are, everything you need is here. I found that somewhat disheartening; why should they not have the will to see something different? I realize that Chassidim BiChlal, and Chabad BiFrat have this notion that everything they need can be found within their doctrine, but at least they changed centuries ago. Here we have thousands of Bochurim who seemingly have no chance to ever see anything but their Daled Amos, and that's just not right, not right at all.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tzig, I don't get your point here. What's wrong with them not going outside their derech? Do you want your kids to explore beyond Chabad?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Berl:

I realize what you're saying, and I'm not trying to compare it to what I would want from my kids. I don't need them to explore outside Chabad, but I definitely wouldn't mind them being Behavent in what goes on elsewhere, and in their history, veAderaba.

LkwdGuy said...

According to the Tzig autobiography there was a definite impetus for the seeking out of a new derech, namely, his disillusionment with the old, instigated it seems by some children making nasty comments. Absent those occurrences the Tzig would not have gone seeking. Such is the way of most stable people. We grow comfortable in our way of life and absent major life altering events, we don't go seeking out drastic change.

Anonymous said...

From a long time lurker - first time writer.
I agree with the idea in this post. I am from a Galitzianer / Hungarian Chasidishe background - this is my derech. As an adult, I have had chavrusas from both Yemenite and Persian backgrounds - learning their minhogim and many seforim particular to these kehilos has been very enriching. In the past few years I have started to become more familiar with Breslover seforim - which has made a great contribution to my avoidas hashem. I don't advocate - in general - changing one's derech, and I live by the derech I received from my parents, my grandparents and rebbis, but I can't imagine that knowning about the many erliche derochim in yidishkeit can be anything but positive and enriching.
PS: Thank you for so many great photos! I spend time going through your archives just looking at the photos.

Anonymous said...

I get your point, I once had a sefer in my car about various tzadikim and gedolim, i gave a chasid of a certain rebbe a ride all he was busy looking at was what was written about his kreiz, I wanted to tell him look somewhere else you know enough about your rebbe's zeide allready and probably have seen all these stories, but that's how it is these days

Anonymous said...

Is the fellow a real Litvak or an Ungarishe Litvak or from a Chassidishe upshtam that joined the 'Yeshivishe' world ? If the latter, maybe he just maintained the Chassidishe derech of not questioning his upbringing or status quo (sometimes called 'emunoh pshutoh'), but just in this case the status quo is 'Yeshivish'. In other words he's acting like a Chossid, just that his Rebbe is a 'Litvishe' Raysh Yeshive.

I know that you are trying to portray the 'Yeshivishe' here as being close-minded robots and Lubavitchers as being open-minded, tolerant, thinking folks.

While there are definitely 'Yeshivishe' types like that nowadays, it's not universally so. There are different types of Litvaks/Yeshivishe, just like there are different types of Chassidim. Just like many Chassidim promote 'emunoh pshutoh', while Lubavitch promotes otherwise, so too, some parts of the 'Yeshivishe velt' promote not asking questions, being 'mivateil daas' to your Rebbe and stuff like that (esp. for younger members), while others (and I would say that the genuine Litvaks would be more in this camp) have a more open and thinking attitude.

Anonymous said...

Is the fellow a real Litvak or an Ungarishe Litvak or from a Chassidishe upshtam that joined the 'Yeshivishe' world ? If the latter, maybe he just maintained the Chassidishe derech of not questioning his upbringing or status quo (sometimes called 'emunoh pshutoh'), but just in this case the status quo is 'Yeshivish'. In other words he's acting like a Chossid, just that his Rebbe is a 'Litvishe' Raysh Yeshive.

I know that you are trying to portray the 'Yeshivishe' here as being close-minded robots and Lubavitchers as being open-minded, tolerant, thinking folks.

While there are definitely 'Yeshivishe' types like that nowadays, it's not universally so. There are different types of Litvaks/Yeshivishe, just like there are different types of Chassidim. Just like many Chassidim promote 'emunoh pshutoh', while Lubavitch promotes otherwise, so too, some parts of the 'Yeshivishe velt' promote not asking questions, being 'mivateil daas' to your Rebbe and stuff like that (esp. for younger members), while others (and I would say that the genuine Litvaks would be more in this camp) have a more open and thinking attitude.

Anonymous said...

Nu, it's Newton's first law of motion - the law of inertia.

* An object that is not moving will not move until a net force acts upon it.

* An object that is in motion will not change its velocity (accelerate) until a net force acts upon it.

In andereh verter, people will generally maintain their status quo unless they have a compelling reason why not to.

As far as just being 'ba'havent' in things that are beyond ones own daled amos, i couldn't agree more.

Anonymous said...

off-topic: Coincidence or not?

The London Jewish Tribune of this week (Parshas Beshalach) had the exact same picture with virtually the exact same caption (un-named hotel owner et all) as you recently posted of the Belzer Ruv Z'TVKL.

It was his Yahrtzeit and the picture was fairly common acc. to you, but do think....?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no Yohrtzeit, Yom Hatzoloh. But I guess we've hit the big time; The Jewish Tribune reads the Tent!!!

Anonymous said...

I don't know how one can reach conclusions based on one guy?
Is that the way they portray it in Lubavitch, jump to conclusions based on some conversations with one guy?
If you tried to make me and others readers feel like programmed robots just because one guy told you there is no searching.....than you have failed miserably.In fact you show yourself to be pretty one dimensional.
Or maybe you just had nothing else to blog about........

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

......... or maybe you're an exception.....

Anonymous said...

Hirshel
All I said that your assumption was on a weak base.One guy is not enough to base anything on.
Why can't you answer that ?
There needs to be a concrete basis to discuss issues, right?Your conversation with one guy is not.
I hope you agree, because if not we would make bad debate partners.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

To answer a few questions:

This young man is a "real" Litvak. His Zeide was a Talmid of one of the greats too. His father learned by and named him for one of the Big Roshei Yeshiva in E Yisroel. His name is a real Litvak name. What else can I say to convince you guys?

He told me this, not I assumed it about him, and he was proud of the fact, and wondered why I was "weird."

Anonymous said...

Oy vey, Hirshel, you can't see what's right in front of your eyes ?

Aderaba, maybe the fact that he went to daven with you is itself proof that he is searching and is not as narrow as you make him out to be !

"This young man is a "real" Litvak. His Zeide was a Talmid of one of the greats too. His father learned by and named him for one of the Big Roshei Yeshiva in E Yisroel. His name is a real Litvak name."

Yasher keyach for ascertaining that he is (seemingly) not an Ungarisher Litvak or a Litvak from Chagas upshtam. However, you still haven't eliminated the possibility that he shtams from Litvishe Chassidim, such as Lubavitch, Stolin, Slonim, Kobrin, Kaydenov, Lechovitch, Amdur.......Maybe he is from such an upshtam and therefore is thinking the way he is. He could have a Litvishe name and still be of Chassidishe upshtam. Yodei dovor know that there were those from such backgrounds who joined the 'Litvishe Yeshivishe velt', like R. Neyach Weinberg (zol hoben a refuah shleimeh bimheira bisaych shear chaylei Yisroel), R. Dovid Kviat, etc.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

He's not from Chassidishe Opshtam, it was quite clear that he never had Shaychus to Chassidim.

Reb Dovid never joined the Litvishe Velt, his children are Chassidim - Slonimer. (at least the ones I know)