Wednesday, December 1, 2010

"למען ידעו כל באי עולם כי ה' הוא האלקים"

Think about the Holy Chasam Sofer, Zy"A, and what he says next time you thumb your nose at a Public Menorah Lighting... Think about the "לפרסמו ביותר" and maybe you'll be proud that somebody out there is doing what the Chasam Sofer says...


Anonymous said...

according to this chasam sofer you have to stay put at your door step

Anonymous said...

The Chassam Sofer is clearly discussing the TIKUN CHAZA"L to put the menorah outside the doorway and THAT is the pirsum yoser. Hirschel, this post is not just a bit of a stretch, it is completely off base. THe CS is not saying to make up new pirsum, he's sayinh that what chaza"l were mesaken IS pirsum beyoser!!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

what do you call "new pirsum?"

being mefarsem something other than Menorah?

meylechHamoshiach said...

You really should not enter into anything connected to halacha puster keyli that you are (and I apologise for the insult to all the puster keylim out there).
The Chasam Sofer never in his wildest dreams considered attaching a menorah to his Honda Oddysey (by the way,if you can be mekayem the "mitzva" with the roof rack "menorah", why don't you use the standard issue electric menorah for your "hadlakah"????).
A cursory review of the gemara (if you can't follow Rabbi Steinsalz's Hebrew, try the Artscroll) will introduce you to the concept of hadlakah al pesach beyto (machlokes Rashi and Tosfos if that refers to the outside facing the public thoroughfare or the pesach of the chatzer).
Forgive me for being mevatel your "teyreh"; why won't you just go spend more time in the reshus harabim.

Anonymous said...

Minhag of the holy Chasam sofer was to light the menorah by the window facing out to the street in pressburg and not by the door in the house as the chassidim do ( i heard this from Reb Bunim Schreiber from lugano who was the son of Pressburger Rov Rav Akiva zt"l

in this context one can under stand what the chassam sofer wrote in the drushas

brainwashed said...

Its good that you posted the whole page of the cahsam sofer i enlarged it and reviewd the first shtikel torah on the right column and i was shaken by the level of kedusha this non chusid demanded of his followers to fantasize that the chasm sofer would even hint for someone to go out to reshus harabim for one second more then the iker mitzvah shows how much you have sunken into the Klipas by your rebbes brainwashing

Anonymous said...

the caption to your post is totally misleading, the chasam sofer uses these words on hashem and for yeties mitzreim, to paraphrase it for humans and for chanukah as a caption for this piece of chasam sofer shows that you don't understand it, unless on the next page he continues with your thought, can you please post it don't let us hanging in the middle,

Anonymous said...

Nobody claims that the CS is saying that you have a Menora on your Honda or your Toyota, the concept is that according to this piece of torah only, dont bring me his other hashkodfas regarding Tzenius, Tielung etc.., this torah is a piece that stands for itself,he is in black and white that Chanuka has to get pirsum for the Umas heolam and that is the real kidush hashem to propagate the Nes for Umas Heolam, stop bringing me other torahs.

Anonymous said...

Melech Hamoshiach
what exactly are you talking about? where does the sugya in Shabos pertain here?

Anonymous said...

your brains seems like washed with bleach,what does the Kedusha business come in here.

Anonymous said...

I saw lately in some likut of a brisker, the Reb Velvele Brisker in Jerusalem lived across a Theater or movie house, he put a extra Menora by the window facing the Exit of the theater with a lot of oil to burn enough for the guys and gals to see it when they leave, since it is the real "Kalye Ragle Tetarmodoi"

LikeWhatever said...

Meylech Hamoshiach.

Tzig brought a Chasam Sofer which points out the importance of pirsumei nisseh to the nations. ur response to that was that hershel is a
1)he should not mix into halacha (which he wasnt)
2)he is a Puster Keyli (i guess that would be an insult)
3)he should go out in the reshus harabbim.
4)Chassam Sofer wouldnt put a menorah on his Honda Od.(Umm i guess ur right but what does that have to do with the concept?)
5)and that ur not mekayam the 'Mitzva' with a rack electric menorah. (pretty old rehashed argument there. Do ur research on what the LR intent was and if Persumei Nisseh is an inyen bifnei atzmo)

Shoin abi gezint.

Its LikeWhatever

Anonymous said...

Brain washed
did the Chasam Sofer have his sukka in his house or in the reshus harabim? he went wherever the Mitzvas hashem send him with no Kedusha preconception. If you learned enough the Torah of the Chasam Sofer ( it seems that u did not learn much of it, since this is the first time you see his kedushadige words)You would of reliazed a big emphasis of not being a Tzadik un a peltz, that the Rotzan hashem is to spread,learn and teach torah to the masses even it will minimize your "Shtiegen" for reference look in the famous Pituche Chosem on the Teshuvas,

Anonymous said...

Agav, the Az Nidberu paskens that if one lights in the reshus harabbim at a public lighting (in addition to lighting in the house at the door/window) one should make a brocho because he is now doing the mitzvah like Chazal intended - in public. [He says this is also the reason for lighting with a brocho in shul.]

Brain washed said...

to anon: the mitsva chacumim is next to a mezuza so the kdushas hamzuza should protect him from the by passers in front of his courtyard but if there a sakuna ruchnius or gasmius you light the menora in side

Anonymous said...

did you ever hear of a minhag of lighting in Shul too? at nght and some do it in the morning too?

leo said...

HT - you're wrong here. The CS is referring to Tikun Hachamim to light at Petah Baito M'bahuss.

Brain Washed - Shame on you for creating your own reason for Mezuza Miyamin, and continue, based on your self-made p'shat, to alter the halacha.
BTW, have you been on the street today? What's with the sakana ruchnit?

Anonymous said...

where did Hirshel say different?

Isaac Asimov said...

98% of Chabad's public Menorah's use electric. so for the most part you can still thumb your nose.

Anonymous said...

Did you read what the Ch.S. says? He says, in part, since the ness of Chanukah happened in a place where few could witness it (unlike other nissim that were witness by multitudes) therefore there is a particular imperative to publicize this ness exceedingly-beyond merely our home. THIS point can be logically applied to those who publicize the ness of the menorah in public. Meaning, that they are doing something positive. Their doing so is an extension of the idea explained by the Ch.S. that this mitzvah has in it the imperative of intense publicity. So, going back to the original point: "thumbing your nose at a public menorah" runs contrary to the Menorah imperative explained by the Ch.S. This is not very hard to understand. BUT if you wish to be anti-Chabad, any excuse will do. You will not let logic nor facts get in your way.

Lgarmeih said...

if lubavitch would not have put their signs next to the menorahs it could have been said that there is a pirsum of the ness chanika but sincece this us a pr campaign tofor lubavitich as resi explains on the gemura shsbbos 22b " Hrioah oimer letoirchi hu madlik"says rashi "so thers is no heiker its done t mefarum the ness" such an hadluka is a chanuka menorah its only the illumination for the sign that says lubavitsh and as the alter says in tanya C2 that the... "kol ma deuvdin lgarmeih hen uvdin"

Lgarmeih corrected said...

if lubavitch would not have put their signs next to the menorahs it could have been said that there is a pirsum of the ness chanika, But since this is used as a public relations campaign for lubavitich, this is as Rashi explains on the Gemura Shsbbos 22b " Hrioah oimer letoirchi hu madlik" says rashi "so thers is no heiker its done to mefarsum the ness" such an hadluka is NOT a chanuka menorah, its only the illumination for the sign that says lubavitsh and as the Alter Rebbe says in Tanya C2 that the... are "kol ma deuvdin lgarmeih hen uvdin"

Anonymous said...

I hate doing this, but Tzig asked for it.

I heard the Lub Rebbe [זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה לחיי עולם הבא נשמתו [עדן himself speaking about these public displays, and his praise of the supreme court's decision in permitting the public display.

That came about when Chabad argued in court that the display is not necessarily a religious symbol [remembering the miracle]. For when it is used in the public it is for the purpose of celebrating 'freedom' which is a universal and secular value.

Read here the ruling opinion.

and the deciding opnion

To argue now that this is about 'parsume neese' and doing the Chasam Sofer's thing, is false to its core.

I don't have the amicus briefs filed by Chabad or its supporters. But I do recall clearly that this was their justification; that it is about secular shared values of Jews and Americans of freedom of religion, and not singularly about the miracle of the oil[because that would be unconstitutional] .

Even the explanation by itself, is a chilul hashem distortion of the חשמונאים, when they were actually OPPOSED to freedom when they killed מחללי שבתים and מתיונים

How is that remotely related to what the Chasam Sofer is saying?

The CS writes about the importance to publicize to the Goyim the "נס" that happened and since it could be denied, we must show it to the עמים. It's about להודיע לנו חבתו ורצונו עמנו

Is going to court and arguing that its not about the miracle; rather its about 'religious freedom', part of the CS's message?

Tzig I still love your blog but this one is as superficial as it can get.

Yosef 718

Moshe said...

I"ve got to say it:You are a gutsy guy.
You know full well how you"ll be attacked for saying your truth.
I am probably in a similar place to you regarding Lubavitch, though, I actually am of a Chabad background and even learned in one of the better Lubavitcher yeshivas for a few years.What I mean to say is that there are many things I like about Lubavitch, but unfortunately there are many things I dislike, especially in the last 20 years.Chief amongst the things I dislike is the total inability to accept any criticism by anybody.This may be the root cause of a lot of the modeneh hanhogos

Isaac Asimov said...

Yosef 718

Chabad claimed in court whatever necessary arguments were needed to win the case.

Not that their arguments were lies but the court briefs certainly shouldn’t be learned like a Blat Gemorah with Kal Vochomers and vos nuch.

The first public Menorah was in 1974 and the first Menorah case was only brought to court in 1986. I doubt in 1974 they were thinking universal freedom until their legal counsel Nat L came up with that strategy.

Menashe said...

Legal strategy = kavana pnimi of mivtza chanukah?

That's a serious example of 1+1=3.

Which is to say that just as you suggest we consider honest criticism (from time to time it does come up, although lav davka on this blog,) perhaps you could apply your own advice and stop looking at all peulos chabad through Lubavitch-hating glasses. Then maybe some might take something that's said to Lubavitch seriously.

ex-aussie said...

A bit of controversy in Australia about inviting goyish footballers to the public Menorah functions. (I doubt that the Chasam Sofer would have approved.)

Here's some of it:

Did the Yevonim triumph the Maccabees after all?

By Chabadnik:

Why the obsession of Chabad Houses with inviting AFL footballers to help celebrate our Chanukah celebrations?
First it was Caulfield Chabad House advertising Chanukah in the Park featuring footballers and now Chabad of Malvern have decided to ape them.

Don’t the organisers know anything about the festival? Haven’t they been taught that Chanukah is a celebration of the battle victories of Mattisyohu and his sons over the Greeks who were trying to force their culture upon us? Didn't they learn that unlike Haman, the Yevonim were not out to physically harm the Jews. Their intention was purely להשכיחם תורתך ולהעבירם מחוקי רצונך – to turn Klall Yisroel away from the path of the Torah and lead them towards their lifestyle - a society where (amongst other things) sporting events were glorified and idolised. (Admittedly, here in Australia such events and participants are similarly treated, but Boruch Hashem there is no demand or compulsion for us to be part of it.

So why are we handing the Yevonim and Misyavnim of today a victory on a platter? This is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what the rebbe wanted and expected from his followers.

And more here re Lipa:

And while there - check out the posts re the bannning of shechitah in New Zealand by an obviously corrupt Minister.

Anonymous said...

"I dislike is the total inability to accept any criticism by anybody."
If you are still Orthodox I would like to know which organization that you belong too is accepting criticism from others?
Satmar? Rav Shach? Agudas Yiosroel? Reb Ovadia Yossef? the 2 bobovers? Skverer Rebbe? Belzer Rov?

Anonymous said...

Ex Aussie

By trying to attract every Tinuk Shenishbe(Raglie Tarmodie as Reb Tzodak claims that it means the Mishling kids based on a chazal in Yevomos) Unfortunately most of our Jewish kids have their heroes this ferden that are athletics. In order to get their attention their is a choiv kodesh to hand them candies till getting in their face a big atlethic 6.7 guy, to see a menorah that will have some call for his Chelek Elokai Mimaal, think about it, why did Hashem create sports ? only for that 1 time that they will sing Hanierois on that field. ( it is not only a chasidic concept, it is a famous rambam in his commentary to Mishnayous)

Anonymous said...

Yosef 718
"Tzig I still love your blog but this one is as superficial as it can get. "
why are you so superficial? please tell us that it is a recycled argument that was printed in the now defunct Jewish Observer? some Rosh that had to show his real hate colors came up with that cheap lomdus.

Anonymous said...

according to your geoinois I would have to cover the words ner mitzva that is embossed on my menorah, also take down the family name posted on my door, since according to rashi I will not be Yoitze, how idiotic of you and the great Yossef of 718, one it is chilul hashem and the other it is against a rashi, and the 3rd idiot, has a argument that Chabad takes no criticism.The Rebbe should of have Chadakov call Moshe Sherers office before he spoke about Mihu Yehusdi etc.. for his clarity...

Anonymous said...

Yosef 718
"How is that remotely related to what the Chasam Sofer is saying?"
you are correct that the CS disagrees with arguments in the court papers? but does that interfere with the lighting on the city plaza? did it become a Mitzva Haboa Beaviro Lenetzech Netzochim?

The CS writes about the importance to publicize to the Goyim the "נס" that happened and since it could be denied, we must show it to the עמים. It's about להודיע לנו חבתו ורצונו עמנו

"Is going to court and arguing that its not about the miracle; rather its about 'religious freedom', part of the CS's message?"
as I told you before it is not in accordance with the CS? but what about the future, FYI, according the Ramban the whole Chashmonim takeover of the monarchy was against halacha, should we stop the celebration of Chanuka, stop the kettles of the donut factories?
BTW, what happened with the word Eden?

Anonymous said...

Yossef 718
Ask the Rosh of the infamous jewish observer article who concocted your pilpul, if the Hungarians the Anshei Chasam Sofer that made the tielung had the right to tell the court system that we will bring up our children to be the real Magyar and only teach and speak the Magyar language.Eventough the Ksav Sofer and for sure Reb Hilel Kolomayer were against it, since it backfires on all their accomplishments of building a isolated Jewry ( papenhiems memoirs Talmid Ksav sofer Frankfurt 1932) The Lawyers wanted this in the arguments in order to bribe the Hungarian minority that had big expansion ambition( if you are familiar with the Magyar history) and after all this the gedolie talmidie CS signed it.
Nu Zog Mir Reb yossef, can the Hungarian Yid celebrate the Tielung if it was created with sin?

Handle with Hendel said...

The Chabad - Lubavitch ceremony of public Menorah lighting has had a posative effect of American Jews.
As usual Chabad manages to convert a ceremony into a unique sectarian Chabad event .If the lighting is designed for the wider Jewish community, why not use Menorah design used by Klal Israel which recent and not so recent archeological and numismatic findings confirm to be ancient in nature.
Chabad has every right to use any type Menorah they wish to for their private rituals, for events that are designed for all Jews why not use a Menorah all Jews can easily bond with.
Have there been any public Menorah lighting where the Chabad shliach "allowed" a local rabbi who is not affilaited with Chabad Hassidics to run the show? Indeed politicians and donors are deemed qualified , but why not local day school directors, synagogue rabbis and others willing to participate; instead of a Chabad event , why not truely design the event as a community wide event .

Anonymous said...

Wasnt Rav Eliyu by every Hadloka of chabad? or the Rabbis of Paris?
the Satmar rebbes or the 4 Roshes of Lakewood will not come anyway.
Your argument of the menorah shape is of the wall, It is a shita of the Rambam from the commentery and the Yad that rav Kafach realized too, the rebbe spoke about it many times, and why should not chasidim follow it,Like telling for Grinieman to eat Pesach a Zayit Matzoh with the shiur of Reb Avrohom Chaim Noeh whoever can not come to a chabad hadloka because of the Menora is made up in his mind as a Sona for the rebbe and chabad

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

the shape of the public menorah is mostly the creation of the few shluchim who produce them. They make them and shluchim buy them. I realize their intention may be to make known the Rebbe's "koch" in the shitas HaRambam, but it may also be the former