Follow this with the recording of his son-in-law's farbrengen, Purim 5716.-- ZIY
Interesting findFor those who are not sure who the letter is addressed to:It's to the father of R'Zalman Nechemya Goldberrg, son in law of R'Shlomo Zalman Auerbach.R'Zalman Nechemya learned in Ponovizh and Chevron.Wiki has some info here http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%96%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%9F_%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%94_%D7%92%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%93%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%92
Is there any written record of MMR advising to consult another rebbe or godel etc?
Forget about what it does for Litvaks -- what does this letter do for YOU? Seeing that Friediker Rebbe reccomends speaking to the C"I, does that give you a new appreciation, allow you to rethink some of Chabad's negative comments about C"I/
ZIYAsking advice from a Talmid Chochem is no contradiction with the Sicha of the lack of Penimies hatorah on the CI,the Frierdige Rebbe had relationships with the \Gedolie Lita, regarding Askunes, but still had his hashkofes regarding penimes hatorah.
I believe it was Purim 5714, not 5716, and it was the year of the CI's passing.
No, it was 5716.
You're right. It was 5716
this letter my dear tzig, should once & for all prove to those idiots that you are totally independent from big Luba. keep doing what you're doing & remain king of Jewish / chassidic blogging.
aww, you're too nicemaybe now you can tell me in an email who you are? once and for all!
Thie post is buit on horim hatluyim b'saaroh: look who the letter was signed by.And to friendly at 3:38: please don't say your own toiros in my name.
friendly, there are more than one friend this tzig here has.I remain, friendly anon
do we now do away with all letters signed by CL?
I have long been an admirer of the Chazon Ish Z'L.and I am a Lubavitcher Shliach. I am happy to read this letter. Having read alot about his life, I am convinced that he was a Tzaddik as well as a Gaon. There is a story that the Rebbe was riding in a car with some older and important Chassidim shortly after the C"I was nifter. One of them remarked that he was a great Gaon.The Rebbe replied "also a great Gaon in Yiras Shomayim."
I think it is a choiv kodosh to be mefarsem this letter. Too many Lubavitchers are only aware of the negative(And yes, I'm a Lubavitcher abd proud of it)
CHAZON ISH WAS NIFTAR OCTOBER 1953
Interesting. I once heard that Hagaon RZNG shlit"a chazers mishnayos ba'al peh while walking in the street, something his father instilled in him based on the exhortations of the Rebbe RAYATZ of Lubavitch ZTL.
All the Chazon Ish gets is "rav hagoan"!!!!! Fech Fech.
Tzig the funniest thing about this post is how lost you chabadskers are. In the real world the riyyatz is not considered anywhere near the saintly chazon ish league. And to bring the riyyatz as a maskim on the chazon ish's greatness is ignorant and laughable.
In my experience its always the Lubavitchers that enjoy antagonizing the Litvaks. The Litvaks just don't care about any of this - they've moved on to more relevant issues.
Moron,he would have wrote Maran but it was still before the Degel Hatorah Matan Torah where Toras Hatoarim was invented.
For the uninitiated, could someone let us know what exactly the Rebbe said on purim 5716?
Ailimisherthere's a link in the comments section abovefind it
Choosdlite"In the real world the riyyatz is not considered anywhere near the saintly chazon ish league"what is the real world? the world of Yeshivas, Chadorim, Mikvoas,Shemiras Shhabos, under the gun of the gullag? or in Rechov Reb Akiva?my real world is different then yours
Anon"they've moved on to more relevant issues."as the shiduchim saga
" In the real world the riyyatz is not considered anywhere near the saintly chazon ish league. And to bring the riyyatz as a maskim on the chazon ish's greatness is ignorant and laughable."This comment is ignorant and laughable. You missed the boat over two hundred years ago. Your average yeshivish bochur is an ignoramus about even recent Jewish history.You'r mainstream yeshivishe velt targum press and feldheim books completely rewrite history and exaggerate or downplay people's influence when it suits their purposes. The saintly Chofetz Chaim who you all adore but don't really follow was machshiv The Rayatz as were many other of his contemporaries. The fact that your MASKILIM of today think otherwise is irrelevant.
The Shekel did not come into use in Israel till the Begin era(much later than the date of this letter. What kind of currency did he actually send ?
Ailmesher,Something about the increase in spam that the Rebbe was receiving thanks to Folye Kahn. It seems that the Rebbe took it all in good spirits.
what are you trying to tell me that the chofetz chayim held of the riyyatz who said that ppl dont hold of the riyyatz? "Kevoidoi bimkoimoi moonach".What i did say wat that he is not in the chazon ish's league by anyones standards in the chassishe velt or the oilam hatorah.And the fact that the chabadskers ubroisham the riyyatz were moiser nefesh in the gulags "der zchus zul zei byshtein"but of course that doesnt make them bigger then the gaon hador who was a malach eloikim!
Thomasit is definitely US Dollars, the Shekolim word is used as a Hebrew translation
"but of course that doesnt make them bigger then the gaon hador who was a malach eloikim!"Is their anybody out there who is not the "gaon hador"? That appellation has been used to describe so many individuals in recent times that the term has become meaningless.Can you please give us the parameters for one to be called a"malach elokim"? How many "verifiable miracles" must he perform before he is accorded such status? Is there some committee that consists by members of the Moietzes that decides who is promoted to such "saintliness" or perhaps the college of cardinals, lehavdil?
how can you possibly compare the chazon Ish to the previous Rebbe? i thought youre joking! The previus Rebbe was like a malach Elokim..and the few people left alive who had the zechus of seeing him, or basking in his presence will all testify to that...and besides- what human being can be the judge between Tzaddikim? you must think very highly of yourself...id love to know youre criteria for measuring heavenly matters...
to anon3 the same amount of miracles needed for the title "nasi doireinu".
I don't know where you guys crawled out from but to quibble on calling the CI the gaon hador? Is this some sort of joke?did you ever hear of R isser Zalman Meltzer who the brisker rov said was the illui with the "hei hayediah' in volozzhin,he said abt the chazon ish that while we are trying to figure out the poshut pshat in the rambams kiddush hachodesh he put out in his sefer deep toirah and pilpullim on the inyan. Cmon guys this is the Chazon Ish we are talking abt here not some 2nd rate rosh yeshiva cmon leys get with the program
oilamhafuchNobody denies his gadlus in Taireh.However how many other Geonim have been crowned with the title "gaon hador"in "our" time?The Chofetz Chaim,The Ragitchover gaon,Rav Ahron Kotler,Rav JJ soliveichik,Maran MBnai Brak and so on.It all depends on where your coming fromAs to the Gedolim you say,sang his praises,They were all Litveshe. Where are the names of Chassideshe gedolim?Do I hear a Rav Menachem Ziemba,The Kozheklover Rov,The Minchas Elozer,Rav Chaim Noeh and so many others, to numerous to mention here, who were his contemporaries, so ver nisht tzu hitzt."to anon3 the same amount of miracles needed for the title "nasi doireinu"I never said that the CI was not a "malach eloikim".My point was simply how does one differentiate between the CI being a malach eloikim and the Frierdike Rebbe not.What criteria do you use to make such a subjective observation?To make a wise crack quip does not address the question.
Nice recording of the Rebbe with a young voice.R. Aaron Kotler in his hesped on the Brisker Rov mentions that we have lost the Brisker Rov, R. Isser Zalman Meltzer and the Chazon Ish who is shakul keneged kulam. He said that all of the time of the Chazon Ish was devoted to Torah. Nothing he did was not related to Torah. The scientific and mathematical knowledge he had was all for the purpose of understanding Torah. He didn't even have betailim of kedusha.So one may be forgiven if one wonders whether the Rebbe, who did have beteilim of kedusha, and did study secular studies, albeit for the purpose of parnossa, is not being nichva from the chupa of the Chazon Ish.
to all of u who know nothing of toras hachasidus, in the rebbe rayatzs chasidus is gionos way beyond to whas the ci was capable of
This letter may be a forgery. As I said there were no shekels at that time. Nor was shekel used as a translation for dollars. Thomas Lowinger
anon3 listen the fact that you say there are no chassidim called gaon hador proves what that there are NO geonim of course not! And btw in yeshiva circles R Menachem zembia is definitely considered from the geoinai hador as is the Sfas Emes,Chidushei Harim,avnei Nezer,the Divrei Chaim ect. So i dont think its a litvish chassidish thing at all.
OlamhafuchMy point was not that there were Chassideshe Geonim.You said"R. Aaron Kotler in his hesped on the Brisker Rov mentions that we have lost the Brisker Rov, R. Isser Zalman Meltzer and the Chazon Ish who is shakul keneged kulam."To which I replied that may be true but all the above mentioned are Litveshe Gedolim. Therefore they considered the CI as THE Gaon Hador but which major chassideshe gedolim expressed the same sentiments about the CI being THE Gaon Hador?
anon3G-d bless you, even though you don't like my poetry. I don't want to speak about the Chazon Ish in this forum, and I will let you believe that the Ktzos hashulchan was an equal, and I will let you live.Remember: Gadlus, traditionaly in yiddishkeit (at least in the non-chabad version) is much more than acts of mesiras nefesh; even herculean ones. That does not a Rashgebehag make, let alone a Nosi Hador. My grandmother zg''z, was moser nefesh for yidishkeit when she was alone in Rusland and Siber, afraid of the Enkevedayah, and never thought she'd ever get out and see a yid ever again. That is Gadlus, even though she can't read a blatt gemarah. She still ain't no posek achron - except on kreplach.Peace.
Thomasplease have mercy on yourself. the letter is no forgery and you're no Sherlock Holmes. That's how the Rebbe wrote when he referred to dollars in Hebrew.
Chosidlite"gaon hador who was a malach eloikim!"I understand that you are a Goan that can figure out who is the Goan Hador? but how do you figure out a Malach? are you a mini Malach?
An Ailimisherthe hesped on the CI is printed in Mishnas Reb Aron?
An Ailimisher"The scientific and mathematical knowledge he had was all for the purpose of understanding Torah"did you see it in the hesped?I dont believe he said it.Btw, the Pushkin of Reb Aron (according the banned book of the ben horav)was for Parnosa? understanding torah? or sheer pleasure?
Anon"My grandmother zg''z, was moser nefesh for yidishkeit"how exactly? did she have a network of grandmothers helping her? It looks like a great story, I will send Mishpacha or Ami to her doorsteps
No. It's not a "story". It was simplicity at its best, VAM"L. There were thousands like her
anon asked how do you know who is a malach eloikim? The simple answer is malach is just a borrowed term that is supposed to signify someones kedusha someones hispashtus from gashmius and oilam hazeh and as R Elyakim Shlezinger amongst so many others have written that around the chazon ish you would see devarim all tivieim(Wonderous things that dont jive with nature) daily!The c. Ish's life was a never ending chain of yesurim and he used all that to rise above everything.Btw tzig I'd love if you gave your 2 cents here!
my 2 cents on whether the CI was a malach elokim?
no your 2 cents as to wether the chazon ish was the gaon hador and generally considered at the top of his generations great men!
Why do you care about his 2 cents or any other persons? Are you doubtful and unsure?
Chossidliteon the chazon ish you dont need Reb Elyokim Shlezinger, their is enough true stories, you dont need shlezingers fabrication.Thanks for clarifying that you did not mean Malach literaly.
To all anonymouses,Yes it is in Toras R' Aharon. I am quoting from memory but that is the gist of the hesped. You can look it up yourselves.
"R Elyakim Shlezinger amongst so many others have written that around the chazon ish you would see devarim all tivieim(Wonderous things that dont jive with nature) daily!"Are you for real? Are all the sipurei Chassidim that are written in the same vein and told about the Besht and his spiritual descendants down to our times, the creations of fertile imaginations,"Chassideshe bubbe maises",as the Litveshe leitzonim call them? This is your criteria for determining who is a 'malach Eloikim"? Ah, but when the same is written about the CI it becomes,pardon the expression,"gospel truth"?
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