(Reb Yisroel of Husyatin zt"l)
You may have read about it, heard about it from the older generation, or from some young shnook like myself who thought he just discovered America, but there are some points and observations you may have missed. I'm speaking of a Machkleyke that polarized and divided frum Chassidic Jews for years. The Sanzer Rov, the Divrei Chaim zt"l, decided that all Ruzhiner Rabbeyim and Chassidim of all the sons of the Heilige Ruzhiner were Apikorsim, and what ensued was the biggest split among Frum Jews that we had seen for centuries. The fact that the SR was the Rebbe of many, many Rebbes and Rabbonim didn’t help the Ruzhiner very much either.
The book that discusses this decades-long scuffle in simple (yet somewhat old-fashioned) Yiddish language is "דער סאנזער צדיק" by Yehoshua Rocker, later reprinted by the widow of Reb Boruch Halberstam of Tschechoyv in New York in 1959. It seems to a novice like myself that the author was somewhat influenced by Haskoloh, but he writes for the most part with great respect for the Tzadikim involved. He looks at every story objectively and comes to a decision based on what makes sense.
Reading the book made me think that I was reading about a very short while ago, say 16-17 years ago in a little town in Israel called Bnei Beraq. There you had a group of people who saw themselves as the proprietors of Torah, or the guardians thereof, - Today's Sanzer Chassidim if you will - and they could not sit by and watch how a group of Chassidim did "their own thing." So they set out to totally destroy them both physically and spiritually, and to alienate them by saying that they're no better than other groups who left Judaism. They are to be tormented, as are their children, their Shechitah and wine is no good, and we are to completely disconnect from them.
Back in the SR’s days as long as it was the Heilige Ruzhiner himself who conducted himself this way they could only stand by and watch, but with his children? No siree. Rumors were spread about what they do, what their wives do and how they dress and act, and about their lack of Torah study. That they don't learn Torah, that their wives ride horses, and that they dress like Goyim, which was comparable to Shmad in those days. Nobody bothered to check the facts, as is normally the case when it comes to scuffles between 2 groups, they didn't have to, after all: wasn't their Tzaddik the "Godol haDor"? didn't so-and-so say that he's the greatest Tzaddik to walk the earth since (fill in the blank). Don't they deserve to be excommunicated after what they do? Why anybody would believe charges like these is also a bit of a scratcher, after all wouldn't you trust the children of the Heilige Ruzhiner that he behaves in accordance with basic tenents of Judaism?
There was the time after the passing of the HR that the Sanzer Rov went to visit his oldest son Reb Mordche Feivish of Husyatin, father of the late Husyatiner Rebbe of Tel Aviv. The Rebbe was supposedly disrespectful toward him, didn't offer him a seat, and basically ignored him. They say that's what made the whole thing burst into flames. It was after that visit that the Divrei Chaim z"l went home and wrote the first of those letters condemning the Ruzhiner Kinder.
And then there was the story with one of the Ruzhiner’s sons, Reb Dov of Lyevoh, who supposedly left Judaism and his Chassidim for a short while, cavorted with Maskilim and Galochim in Tchernovitz for 8 weeks and was going to convert completely! Only after massive family pressure from his wife, a Tchernobler daughter, and brothers did he return. The Chassidim, instead of condemning this act, all said that it was העכערע ענינים, and that he did nothing wrong. So, if one brother is a "heretic", and the Chassidim are as well, then his brothers the Rabbeyim must be too!!!! What a novel idea.
I’ve been told that Machleykes amongst Tzaddikim is a personal matter, and that the Tzaddik is doing it to be ממתיק דינים from the other Tzaddik. I can understand that when one argues on the derech of a certain Tzaddik, but this seems a bit much even when following that logic. Then again my Breslover friends will tell me otherwise and point to the Redifeys they had to endure for centuries!
Am I the only one that sees similarities here?
( I ask Mechilah LeMafreah from the Kedoshei Eretz that are in the Eylem HoEmes if I was Ch"V Pey'gey'ah in their Koveyd)
19 comments:
That they don't learn Torah, that their wives ride horses, and that they dress like Goyim, which was comparable to Shmad in those days.
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Sounds like accusations made against Chabad today - car is parallel to horse vehameyvin yavin.
What is the point of all of this nonsense, both then and now?
And what became of the Sanz-Ruzhin dispute? On the Sanz side, Bobov and Klausenberg seem to be doing well numerically (even if Bobov may not have settled down yet), whereas Ruzhin based Boyan, Husyatin and Vasloi do not seem to have many Chassidim but do have many admirers. Nevertheless, both kloizen seem to have survived the machloikes and the war.
Itzik
Even I didn't think of the car/horse comparison, but I guess you did. Most Litvishe girls and women drive in America anyway.
The only reason it seemingly ended was because the SR passed away 7 years later. Otherwise who knows how long it would've gone on.
...So can we add the Divrei Chaim to your long list?He'd be in good company.
I have to agree with you about one point:You called yourself a 'young shnook'.You are, and that's being very nice.
While I am not sure that the following issue is important , I must comment on Sto P. remark that the Rizhiner were poor. After World War 1 everything changed and the Rizhiner rebbes were like everyone else.
The world wide depression did not help any. Their exile in Vienna also did not help.After this they no longer were wealthy.
But prior to World War 1 the Rizhiner, and all the dynasties stemming from Rizhin were known to be wealthy. they lived in castles, had chariots , fancy furniture and excellent clothing.This was true in Sadigora, Bhush, Czortkow, Liova and Stafaneshti. As a matter of fact it was this high living that caused the holy Divrei Chaim and his sons to start a World war against the Rizhiner's children as they thought the high living would lead to lack of modesty and modern ideas among Rizhiner Chasidim.
It is this wealth that i refer to in my posting.
Schneur | 11.06.06 - 11:31 am | #
And look at those tzanzer chasidim of today! castles, chariots, fancy furniture and excellent clothing an all that which they didn't like in Rizhin is considered admirable without saying!
But in reality such machloykes is a horrible thing. Better don't start to rummage through this garbage. I've heard once one Karliner chosid, answering someone, who was asking about old animosity in Karlin towards Breslov (which today is no more at least from the Stoliner Rebe himself) - is it surprising that so many perished in the Driter Churbon in Europe? Just look in Chaza"l in Medrash! (Which Rash"i brings about Koyrach). Why did noshim vetaf suffered together with Koyrach? Machloykes goyrem!!!
by rihziner chasidim today, they say that
"די גאנצער מלכות איז אריבער צו צאנז"
Vhu Rachum:
Did you see that from my words? did I imply it even slightly? Are you even capable of reading a paragraph of written word and comprehending what you read?
I said that I see many similarities in those 2 Machleykesen, but in truth these 2 people; the Sanzer Rov and the Baal HaYortzeit of today, are very, very different. The outcome may have been the same as well as the accusations.
What can we say about difficult times like those?
Jews were afraid מה יביא יום, where their daily bread would come from, and the Haskoloh was raging. Then comes a new group whom they suspect of doing the same things. What should their reaction be? Of course they would be aggressive and condemn them!
Tzig as usual stuck his foot in his proverbal mouth.
His anology of the Rizhin/Sanz machloikess to the matsav with Lubavitch today is correct,BUT, in that war almost everybody eventially agreed with the Divrei Chaim.Eventually even the Rizhiner dynast saw the light and toned down the excesses.
Time Lubavitch sees the light before we are stuck with a 'neo' Christian cult, with langeh berd oon vildeh memtschen
Where did you get those pictures from of the Stefaneter Rebbe? Didn't something similar happen between Skver and Breslov?
veeden
I was simply commenting on my observations while reading the book, not trying to make a point. That seems to be too much for you to take, eh?
Oh, and please don't compare the Vaboylniker Tzadik to the Sanzer Rov.
FWQ
I found it here, just scroll down a bit.
What do you know about the Vaboylniker Tzadik?
And please stop your Chabadsker 'transliterations' such as such as these :Eylem HoEmes if I was Ch"V Pey'gey'ah in their Koveyd),I guess you can't stop, you so desperately need to be loved that you''ll leck up the Chabadskers, even copying their mistaken ivri.
There something pathetic about Hungarians that they lack any pride:Either they become chasidim or yeshivish, Vien and Nitra are shrinking and become chasidish, Nitra went as far as changing to Nusach Sefard in some shul.Pathetic.That's what happens when you are oongarishe naaronim
v'den
I guess you're one of the few Viener who still daven Ashkenaz?
Many of the Oberlander Rabbonim became Chassidim later on, like the VaYaged Yaakov, the Gyarmater Rov, the Mader Rabbonim and so on. This is nothing new.
The Satmarer are to blame, you know. They filled up all the Hungarian Oberlander Yeshivos and made them all wear Shtramlech, 0r "Katzen Hutten" as they would say.
Oh, one more thing: Please go out and get yourself a sense of humor.
Today was Reb Mordche Faivish's Yohrtzeit. zy"a.
a few years ago it was printed in Hamachne Hacharadi a letter from Reb Avrohom Shulem Stropkover the son of the Shinever, that the machloke was to blame on meshamshim and others.. lets not talk about it, who that other person was,
anonymous:
פארוואס זאל מען נישט רעדן? אדרבא, זאג
דער עולם וויל וויסען
v'den
I guess you're one of the few Viener who still daven Ashkenaz?
Many of the Oberlander Rabbonim became Chassidim later on, like the VaYaged Yaakov, the Gyarmater Rov, the Mader Rabbonim and so on. This is nothing new.
The Satmarer are to blame, you know. They filled up all the Hungarian Oberlander Yeshivos and made them all wear Shtramlech, 0r "Katzen Hutten" as they would say.
Oh, one more thing: Please go out and get yourself a sense of humor.
Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:41:00 PM
The Vayaged Yaakov didn't "become" chassidish. His father the Arugas Haboisem himself traveled to Shineva and Belz. He regretted not having been to Tsanz.
About Vien and Nitra, most of the students were chassidish so nusach ashkenaz was kind of pointless.....
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