Tuesday, November 28, 2006

"Chief Rabbi" this!



הרב ארנטרוי מונה לאב"ד אירופה


24/11/2006

על המינוי הוחלט במהלך כינוס של הוועדה המתמדת של 'ועידת רבני אירופה' שהתקיים השבוע
בגיברלטר

בכנס של הוועדה המתמדת של 'ועידת רבני אירופה', שהתקיים השבוע בימים שני עד רביעי בגיברלטר, בו נטלו חלק גדולי הדיינים ורבנים מאירופה, הוחלט להקים בית דין נייד של דיינים מוכרים, שיסתובבו במדינות אירופה בהן אין בית דין קיים ויסייעו לרבנים המקומיים
בכל מעשה בי"ד

בראש הרכב בית הדין יעמוד הדיין הגאון רבי חנוך ארנטרוי, אב"ד דלונדון, היוצא בקרוב לגמלאות.

Rabbi Chanoch Ehrentreu of the London Beis Din was appointed as Chief Rabbi of Europe, this after he's about to retire from his position with the London Beis Din.

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Now who can beat that, Chief Rabbi of all of Europe?!

A Chief Rabbi of some small Russian hick town?

3 Chief Rabbis in the Ukraine?

I think not!!!

32 comments:

JJ said...

While he's at it, why not add the Greek Islands to his resume?

This is part of the ABC Syndrome that grips parts of the Frum world. That's Anyone But Chabad for you.

London Snag said...

You appear to know nothing about this issue.

There has been a European-wide organisation for many decades, called the Conference of European Rabbis, which quietly went about the important business of ministering the far flung small communities with the help they need.

Recently, with the aim of enticing large grants out of the European Union, a few Chabad "rabbonim" (mostly of the Chabad semicha factories of the US, where being able to consume alcohol is prized greater than halachic knowledge) conspired with a few disaffected gebuine Rabbis to form their own organisation, called the Center of European Rabbis (sic).

This has no purpose, other than a fundraising effort for the mad yellow flaggers (who, should you have forgotten, you have supposedly disowned since last week).

Dayan Ehrehtreu is a world renowned posek, who was Rosh Beis Din of London for about twenty years, before his recent retirement. It is a mark of the respect in which he is held that this new position has been created for him.

By the way, even the so-called 'normal' Chabadskers of London (from the Kingsley Way Yeshiva) has the Yechi plastered all over their mitzva tanks.

Hirshel Tzig said...

London Snag

Please don't tell me what I do and don't know. I know all abot the competing Organizations and why there was a need to start another group. Of course you use the white-washing reason, and do away with all competing Rabbonim. I guess Rabbis:

Dayan Lichtenstein of London (federation)
Rabbi Lieberman of Antwerp
Rabbi Yirmiyohu Cohen of Paris
Rabbi Schlesinger of Geneva
Reb Chooneh Halperin of London (who was pressured to resign)

They all count for nothing. After all, who needs Reb Chooneh when you have Rabbi Goldschmidt from Moscow instead?!

You make me laugh, you snags.

Hirshel Tzig said...

The RCE מרכז רבני אירופה was founded because of the exclusive tactics of Ehrentreu, Abba Dunner, and the other Chabad haters. They could care less about far-flung communities if it doesn't fit their bill, and especially if they're run by Chabad "Alcohol consumers."

Please don't mix Meshichism into this, it's as relevant as Yasir Arafat is now.

Anonymous said...

Is the the same Rabbi E:
http://www.judaicabooks.net/cgi-bin/shj455/000000000004000.html

eli said...

HT - What? Are you jealous?
From now on I'll call you Chied Rabbi of Circus Tent.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Yes, Eli, I'm extremely jealous.

London Snag said...

"Please don't mix Meshichism into this..."

However hard you try to wish it away, this is the toichen of people's anti-chabadism.

I notice you have "New York, London" on your profile, do you hang around outside Carmelli's on a Friday afternoon?

London Snag said...

As to the two London rabbis you mention, "disaffected" couldn't desribe them more accurately!

Snag said...

Considering that the self-appointed 'Chief Rabbi of the CIS' asked his friend Putin the Poisoner to throw the genuine article out of the country, you have a nerve to complain about the politics of being called Chief Rabbi.

As ever, Chabad on the side of the despots, as they have been since the Napoleonic wars.

Milhouse said...

However hard you try to wish it away, this is the toichen of people's anti-chabadism.

No, it isn't. The same people who now claim that this is their reason for opposing chabad, were anti-chabad long before 5754. What was their reason then? How did they know, at that time, that the Rebbe wasn't the moshiach? (The real reason: because they don't believe there is a moshiach. To them moshiach is just a story, or some sort of malach, not a bosor vodom.)

Hirshel Tzig said...

London

Reb Chooneh disaffected? Really? by what?

Would you call Abba Dunner disaffected? I would. He sees he has nothing anymore, his sphere of influence is dwindling fast.

So now Shayevitch is "the real thing", or are we speaking of Goldschmidt, who's the CR of Moscow last time I checked.

Are we back to blaming Lazar for Putin's indiscretions?

Snag said...

Get with the picture dude, even as we speak, Chabad is in the process of dismembering its Nigleh Meshichisten. The Nistar ones, that may take a bit longer...

Hirshel Tzig said...

Hang around Carmelli's? me? Good Heavens, no! It has a LBD Hechsher :-), I eat only Kedassia.

Itzhak Schier said...

The European Chabad organization is NOT meshichist in ANY way. And I do not know who was behind those tanks, but official Chabad in London (Rabbi Sudak, Rabbi Vogel, Dayan Raskin etc), with the exception of Rabbi Shmuel Lew, are very anti-meshichist.

As for me, I hereby proclaim myself Chief Rabbi and Av Arba Misois Beis Din of Preston, Wormwood Scrubs, and Broadmoor.

Stam a yid said...

Tzig
You are oh, so hard at work deflecting the problems in your own backyard.I really thought we had a breakthrough when the Meshichisten crossed every single red line.I thought once and for all Lubavitch would do what needs to be done, but no, again the focus is on others.................
Get your act straight, please.
To all the posters who claim that people always 'hated' Chabad and are just looking for reasons:Wrong!,in my case at least.While I think there is a lot of valid criticsm on the other hand there is a lot of good work, what is drawing Lubavitch 'michutz lamachaneh' are the meshichisten and the lack of any serious clarification and an organized stand to let the world know where exactly Lubavitch stands.A small example:In a letter written by a certain rabbi in Crown Heights against the Meshichist riot the Rebbe z'l is still referred to as Nosi Hador(most non Lubavitchers see this honorific as more than strange and as an opening for unstable people to use for their propoganda)with NO honorific denoting that the Rebbe was niftar, basically 'pareve'
It has to be made clear:If the basic notion that the Rebbe has passed away cannot be noted by a leading rov, how will Lubavitch rid themselves of the extreme elements?

London Snag (formerly known as Snag) said...

"Would you call Abba Dunner disaffected? I would. He sees he has nothing anymore"

I REALLY hope that is not a reference to the fact his wife was niftar two weeks ago.

BTW, the two London Rabbis on your list are only there because they have had major broigessen with Dayan Ehrentreu. Halpern due to his virulent and personal campaign against the local eruv, and Lichtenstein because of a regrettable court case.

And furthermore, Carmellis is Kedassia, your favourite Hungarian Hashgocho!

London Snag (formerly known as Snag) said...

See below for a pic of the mitzva tank (plus a bit of my thumb)

http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image012gl1.jpg

Hirshel Tzig said...

London Snag

so everybody besides for Ehrentreu and Goldschmidt have reason to be disaffected, eh? And because of Lichtenstein's court case he joined with Chabad Alcies? Puh-lease.

I didn't know about Dunner's wife, and was not referring to that. May he be comforted among the mourners of Zion and Jerusalem.

Carmeli's Kedassia? Are you sure? I could've sworn it was LBD.

London Snag (formerly known as Snag) said...

It is both LBD and Kedassia.

Maybe Friday you could give me a copy of Beis Menachem, and I could buy you a boureka.

London Snag (formerly known as Snag) said...

Sorry, Beis Moshiach.

Anonymous said...

I'm frankly appalled at some of the comments appearing on this blog. Many aveiros are being transgressed by every single word of falsehood and slander that people seem to be writing in their burning hatred. 99% of this is simply speculation and completely untrue. Please stop wasting your time and dragging your neshomos down. To clear the record

1)Re anonymous's comment "Is this the same Rabbi E..." -- No that was the Dayan Shlita's grandfather, chief rabbi of pre-war Munich
2)It appears that the Dayan has been made av beis din of a new pan-European Beis Din - I see no implication of Chief Rabbi in any of this and this new development indeed seems necessary and long-overdue
3)I do not believe the Dayan has retired yet, rather his contract expires in December or some time shortly thereafter
4)LBD is a top hechsher right up there. Its database of special ingredients, additives and chemicals is used by many other UK and indeed Int'l Botei Din, more than would like to admit. Please don't put down a Hashgacha headed by Dayan Abramsky Z'TL and many other great Talmidei Chachomim since. It is currently ably led by Dayanim Ehrentreu, Gelley, Abraham, Simons and Binstock.

Please stop being Mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim and Choshuve groups and communities - from across the spectrum. No one deserves this.

Hirshel Tzig said...

Anonymous

No need to get excited, there was no mention of his character, just the title bestowed upon him by some anxious PR guy, that's all.

LBD Hechsher may be more Mehudar but it's like that in the USA as well. Hashgoches like the OK, because they don't contain Hebrew lettering are perceived to be of a lower standard. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Hirshel Tzig said...

London Snag

we'll have to wait a while with that Boureka, you forget the New York part of my profile....

If only I'd have known you were in London during the summer, when I was there.

Camp Runamok said...

"Now who can beat that, Chief Rabbi of all of Europe?!"

Well, it is typical Eurpoean fashion to encourage more overweening bureaucracies to oversee the minutest facets of life. Just look at the overlapping and redundant functions of the European Commission (where the administrative power lies), Parliament (a basically insignificant but feel-goody body) and the myriad committees that regulate everything down to limits on acceptable banana curvature! Is the European Proto-State now going to do the same to Halachic observance? Will binding tefillin according to Nusach Sefard now be punishable by a €40 fine!?

Don't get me wrong; I do not know the Rabbi and, judging from his accomplishments so far, he is as much of an ehrlicher Rov as there could be. However, I question exactly what this office will offer to European Jewry aside from the typical byzantine EU boilerplate.

In the words of Muhammad Ali; "Thank G-d my granddaddy got on that boat!

Anonymous said...

I am from New York, is Rabbi Duner the comedian from the shietlach ?He made Rav Elyaishev and Rav Kanievsky into fools, by grandiosing on a world stage with hyped up facts.

Hirshel Tzig said...

No, that's a different Rabbi Dunner. The Rabbi Dunner from the ועידת רבני אירופה is an old man. They are related however, I just don't know the relation. The Rabbi Dunner from the Sheitlach tried to become Chief Rabbi of Antwerp but was rejected by the people of the community.

Anonymous said...

to London Snag
there is no doubt in my little mind that any Lubavitcher shaliach did more to strengthen yiddishkiet after 1 year being on his job, then this phoney organization Confrence bla bla.. with their glorious 300 year of history, stop your hate mongering, take some iboprifin or consume a little mashkeh and calm down.

Gimpel said...

Rabbi Dunner was NOT rejected by Antwerp. Punkt farkert. They actually appointed him as the Rov there. However he - after discussing it with his gedolim (presumably rav Elyashiv) rejcted the job.

The entire episode was publcly recorded in the offical Kehila newsletter Shabas beShabato. Both the announcement of his appointement and some weeks later his letter to the Kehila expalining whu he cannot accept the job.

Hirshel Tzig said...

I read the Antwerp news, not the "official" stuff. I believe that he`was rejected.

William Dwek said...

When ‘dayanim’ and ‘rabbis’ use the Torah for their own power and commercial profit, this is the behaviour of a swine i.e. a Pig.

No other ‘rabbi’ will ever act against another ‘rabbi’ - even when he knows his colleague is clearly desecrating the Torah. Each rabbi is only worried about losing his own position.

Therefore, the ‘rabbi’ and ‘dayan’ will never effect justice. And he will never truly stand for the Torah or the Honour of Hashem. His pocket will always prevail.

The Torah must never be used for commercial gain and profit. Am Yisrael can only be lead by those who have the necessary love and respect of Hashem and the Torah.

Eliyahoo William Dwek said...

Any man who chooses to be a ‘rabbi’ (‘true teacher’ of Torah) or a ‘dayan’ (‘judge’), or a ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) should be doing so Voluntarily. Out of his pure love for Hashem and the Torah. And his Ahavat Yisrael.

If he refuses to do community work voluntarily, and wants and accepts payment for everything he does, such a man should not be leading a community. He should get a job and earn a living. He can collect milk bottles or clean the windows. That is what is called ‘earning a living’.

Torah is learned, studied and taught: out of Love. Voluntarily. But the ‘rabbis’ have turned the Torah into their ‘Profession’, from which they earn money.

We are commanded in the Shema to:
‘LOVE Hashem, your G-d, WITH ALL YOUR HEART, and with all your soul and with all your might.’

‘VE’AHAVTA et Hashem Elokecha BECHOL LEVAVECHA uvechol nafshecha uvechol meodecha.’ (Devarim, Vaethanan, 6:4-5)

Is the ordinary man or woman PAID to pray to Hashem, or to say some words of Torah? No. Has veshalom! But the rabbis are. These men can give ‘lovely’ shiurim that they have rehearsed. But they would not give a shiur without being paid for it.

The true hachamim and rabbis of old, all actually worked at proper jobs and professions.

Wake up! Even a little child could have worked this out. These salaried men can never truly stand for the Torah, because in a case of conflict between a correct course of action according to the Torah, and the rabbi or rav’s pocket – his pocket and position will always prevail.

Pirkei Avot: (2:2)
“Raban Gamliel beno shel Rabi Yehuda HaNassi omer: yafeh talmud Torah im derech eretz, sheyegiat shenaihem mashkachat avon. Vechol Torah she’ein imah melacha sofa betailah ve’goreret avon. Vechol haoskim im hatzibbur yiheyu imahem leShem Shamayim……”

“Rabban Gamliel, the son of Rabi Yehuda HaNassi, said: It is good to combine Torah study with a worldly occupation, for working at them both drives sin from the mind. All Torah without an occupation will in the end fail and lead to sin. And let all who work for the community do so for the sake of Heaven………”