Wednesday, May 2, 2012

על דאטפת אטפוך - Poetic Justice!

My dear friends;

I'm sorry for doing this, for airing our "dirty laundry" here in public, and in English yet! but this charade has to stop. This week's meeting with the Satmar Rebbe is only one example of the exclusionary tactics being used by the organizers of the Internet event on כ"ח אייר, הבעל"ט. You can choose not to believe what I write here, if it makes you feel good, but I know it to be 1000% true. Many efforts were made to get the organizers to include Lubavitch in this asifa. They were all rejected. For all kinds of supposed reasons. All people involved got the run-around, and the end result was that we got the message. Even the Skulener Rebbe said it has nothing to do with him;  "איך בין אן אלטער איד און מען שלעפט מיר ארום". Those were his words. Even supposed friends of Lubavitch that are involved could do nothing. Lubavitch was not wanted here. Apparently some of the organizers, or do we say "THE" organizer from Gateshead/Lakewood, thinks that it's his klal yisroel and he decides who's in and who's not. And this week they made it perfectly clear to the Satmar Rebbe of KJ that they don't want Lubavitch there. That they're not part of Klal Yisroel, to paraphrase R' Malkiel Kotler. This is a kinus for part of klal yisroel, not klal yisroel. Not even all of the Ultra-Orthodox.

In case I wasn't clear enough, here's what happened:

A delegation that included the Skulener Rebbe, one of his sons, R' Matisyahu Salomon, R' Malkiel Kotler and the Viener Rov/Rebbe of Williamsburg went to the see the Satmar Rebbe of KJ this week. I think it was Monday night. They went there to convince him to sign on to the big Internet gathering. They need him, because if he doesn't sign on then his people won't go, and that means thousands of empty seats at Citifield. (which is normal there, from what I understand...) He doesn't want to go or send his people because he deals with the issue in his own way, he doesn't need some darshan for ladies (no offense) tell him what he should do to keep his kids safe. And most of all, if he doesn't call the gathering, he's not going. He doesn't play second fiddle to nobody. So he comes up with a lame excuse about 1866 Hungary, which everybody knows he doesn't believe, but they can't tell him that, because, you know, it isn't respectful. But how does he make that point? He asks them why one segment of klal yisroel, several thousand Jews with black hats, Lubavitch, namely, why they're not invited, why they haven't been asked to sign on to the kol korehs and get their students and fathers to come? So supposedly RMK said something like "they're not part of Klal Yisroel; that even though you daven in Chabad in Palm Springs I would rather daven B'Yechidus if I was in that situation."  So the SR used that to tell them, that just like he does that because he has a mesorah from his zeide and from the late Ponovizher Rosh Yeshivah, so too does he have a mesorah from his zeides.  And his mesorah goes back to 1866 Hungary, not 1946 Brooklyn. (could we have expected him to stand up and condemn that statement?...) And this is what we call "poetic justice." You Litvaks thought you were the ultimate guardians of Jewry? the Satmar Rebbe turned the tables on you and told you what he really thinks of your clean-shaven, sheitel wearing, Agudah-voting sorry selves.

I know, I know, it's Chabad's fault. They isolated themselves. Whatever.


And they're wondering if they should attend...

And they speak about Achdus?!

........מחרימים עדה קדושה
















































אלע, אלע, אלע

149 comments:

ישבב הסופר said...

If the Lubavitcher Rebbe were alive today, neither he nor his chasidim would have been part of this Asifa. So why should the askanim assume Lubavitch wants anything different today?

ישבב הסופר said...

If the Lubavitcher Rebbe would be alive today, neither he nor his chassidim would take part in this asifa. So why should the askanim assume that today is any different?

Anonymous said...

רבי הערשל if you know Reb malkiel you would know he doesn't speak this way
However Lubavitch did desperate themselves from Kalla Yisroel , always busy knocking g other chasidim the stupid stories about "snags"
All they they are busy with things שלא שיערום אבותנו
Try speaking with a Lubavitch his knowledge of past and present gedolim is nil. All they know about is rav moshe and rav shach. A Lubavitch shkiah in Brooklyn never even heard of Reb Yaakov emden. וכו׳וכו׳ talk to them and all you get is "we do this and we do that"
They never heard of basic seforim that a little child knows of .stop this lying you know how they cut themselves off. A few years ago by a bar mitzvah I was sitting with a lubav musmach from the GEZAH who married a gezah
He never heard of telshe yeshivah the people who were chasidim , by the tar couldn't believe their ears

Jewish Observer said...

I would like to see where the Gerer Rebbe stands on this issue?
Or he does not need Chabad in USA for the Elections of his stooges?
thats the ugly face of Charadie yiddishkiet,

איש חסיד היה said...

I don't understand why you get all worked up about it,
R' MK believes that חבד is not part of כלל ישראל in the same way he believes that internet is dangerous for the future generation

Why do you give them a pass for not inviting reform jews? I'm not ח״ו comparing חבד to reform jews but I guess he does believe so ( since you are so sure he said it) so don't be so shocked he is not trying to play politics this is his belief and he is entitled to it

The only problem with the above analogy is that he never said It I don't understand why you get all worked up about it,
R' MK believes that חבד is not part of כלל ישראל in the same way he believes that internet is dangerous for the future generation

Why do you give them a pass for not inviting reform jews? I'm not ח״ו comparing חבד to reform jews but I guess he does believe so ( since you are so sure he said it) so don't be so shocked he is not trying to play politics this is his belief and he is entitled to it

The only problem with the above analogy is that he never said It

old timer said...

Tzig, I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but when the TV ban came out years ago, EVERYONE signed with one exception. RMMS. In fact, I can't remember ever seeing RMMS sign any document that included signatures from others sects.

Toasted said...

With all due respect, Chabad has done this to themselves. They lacht zich oiss from the rest of the nation through it all, opting for seclusion and elitism, 'anas'h' only.

Sorry

Yanover said...

Vus getrufn in Ungaria in 1866?

snagville said...

Wow I have never been prouder of R' MK in my life. However, as the last poster mentioned I don't believe the story for a second although i wish it was true. RMK is scared of his own shadow and would never have the guts to say it. And he is too Aidel. Whether he thinks it is another matter (One could only hope).

Shea said...

I find it very hard to believe that R'Malkiel said anything of the kind about Lubavitch.
Who knows what was said in the private meeting?

Anyway Lubavitch is not into these cherems, it would be totally unreasonable to expect official Lubavitch to join

נחמן said...

ליובאוויטשער פארשטייער הערט אויף אנצוזייען אן אומזינסטיגע מיאוס'ע שמוץ קאמפיין פון חרוב מאכן סאמע העכסט-וויכטיגע זאכן, מיטן זיך באפאסן מיט דעם נושא.

ניין, איך בין נישט קיין סאטמארער. נאר וואס יא?

ליובאוויטש ווייסט זייער גוט פארוואס זיי האבן מיט דעם אסיפה קיין שייכות. אויב איז דא א מקום אין דער וועלט וואס דער אינטערנעט איז העכסט אפיציעל; אויב איז דא קרייז אין דער וועלט וואס פארמאגן אזויפיל אפיציעלע וועב-זייטלעך אנגעפילט מיט בילדער פון מענער און ווייבער אהנע אויסנאם; אויב איז דא א מקום אין דער וועלט וואס אלע שיחות און מאמרים און התוועדות'ער פון א רבי איז פולקאם אפיציעל צו זעהן דורך די אינטערנעט (אהן זיך דארפן באנוצען מיט זייטיגע וועב-זייטלעך, פשוט ווייל מ'פארמאגט צענדליגע אייגענע, וואס קיין שום אנדערער קרייז האט דאס נישט) דאן איז דאס ליובאוויטש. אן מזלזל זיין, אבער אין מציאות, ליובאוויטש האט זיך זייער שיטה בנוגע די אלע טעכנישע כלים, נאך אין די צייטן פון טעלעוויזיע, וואס אלע חסידישע קרייזן, אלע, מיין איך אלע, אהנע אויסנאם, האבן דאס אויסגעראטן בחרב ובחנית, אז אין א חסידישער שטוב איז נישט געווען צום האבן, איז דער איינציגער וואס נישט בלויז נישט גע'אסר'ט, נאר בשיטה זיך באנוצט דערמיט איז געווען ווער? ליובאוויטש! פארוואס ווייל דער רבי האט געהאלטן אז מ'דארף אלעס נוצן צו מפרסם זיין אלקות און חסידות אויף דער וועלט.

אדרבה צא ובדוק אין אלע ליובאוויטשע צענטערן, סיי אין אמעריקא און סיי אין ארץ ישראל, וועט איר זיך איבערצייגן אז אויף אזא פארנעם צו זעהן ביים המון עם די מאדערנסטע כלים, איי-פאון; ענדרויעד וכדו' איז נישט צום געפינען ביי קיין שום אנדערער קרייז, אפי' נישט למחצה ולשליש ולרביע, אויף אזא אופן ווי עס איז פארהאן אין ליובאוויטש.

מיר האבן דאס שוין מיטגעהאלטן עטליכע מאהל אין קראון-הייטס, אז די כלים וואס מ'פארמאגט דארט (אפי' בחורים) איז פון די סאמע מאדערנטסע מכשירים, וואס אין אנדערע פלעצער שעמט מיט זיך דערמיט עכ"פ בגלוי זיך אזוי ארום דרייען אין שוהל.

ליובאוויטש ווייסט זייער גוט אז זיי זענען א זעלבסט-שטענדיגע אפאראציע און האבן זיך אויך אן 'אייגענעם כלל ישראל', און דאס אז מ'האט זיי נישט אריינגענומען (אין אונזער פאל) האט גארנישט צוטוען מיט מחלוקת און חשבונות פירן מיט ליובאוויטש, נאר פשוט ביי זיי גייט מען צו אינגאנצן אנדערש צו די סארט ענינים, און אויב איז דא איינער וואס מ'קען זאגן אויף איהם שכאן מצא בע"ח לגבות את חובו, איז קיין אנדערע נישט, נאר בלויז ליובאוויטש!!

ביטע הערט אויף אנצוזייען חורבנות און מחרחר ריב זיין, אויף זאכן וואס זענען נטול כל יסוד, און אויב האלט איר נישט ביים קומען (פאר די סיבות וואס איר אליין ווייסט דאס גוט), דאן ביטע נוצט אויס אט די צייט אביסל מער אויפצוטוען פאר אידישקייט ווי איידער שטערן אנדערע וואס ווילן יא טוען, לפי ערך עבודתם, דעתם והשקפתם.

Beidem said...

Reb Sofer,
Whether or not Lubavitch decides to attend is their business, just like whether or not Satmar attends is their business.
But as part of Klal Yisroel, they should be invited with the same respect as every other kehila kedosha in the world. They should have come with a delegation to the Lubavitcher Rabbonim and asked them to sign. And they didn't. R Hirshel, you're right for publicizing this.

Yanover said...

did they invite modernishes from YU?

eech said...

The last time lubavitch did anything offical, as part of klal yisroel was when the rayatz had 500 rabbis sign a letter being moche against the sochnut, and that was basicly on his turf. Giyus banos, nituchei meisim and all other gzeiros hadas, here and in eretz yisroel always left chabad content to stand on the side. "Dus hut nit mit unz", why suddenly the desire to be a part of the world of (rabbis) kotler, salomon and shach....

eech said...

There was just a big tumult when Chabad girls school in kan tziva forbbade the girls from being on facebook, michlal lav ata shomea hen, if facebook is ossur, its because the internet itself is muttar, so there is really no common fround or shared values starting point for chabad to come to such an asifa. Mainstream chareidishe mosdos outrite forbid their students from using the net for any purpose.

eech said...

YU and YI were also left out, chabad can make an asifa with them.

Fred said...

Did RMK say such or not?

proud chabadsker said...

Call us what you want ahin, aher.
RAT's gabbai is the source of this story. And knowing him, it's impossible he lied...
Dig your head in the sand, RMK said what he said, he believes Chabad has no place in Klal Yisroel. Shoin. Chabad doesn't need him until this story came out, and don't need him afterwards either. Just don't call it an Achdus gathering, if it excludes an eidah kadisha of Klal Yisroel. That's all.
The LR didn't sign on things. The LR didn't accept invitations. Fine. That's neither here nor there. Accepting an invitation is on the invitee. Not the inviter. RAT is entitled to decline, but he is entitled to be invited as well. Same for Chabad.
By not inviting us, he excluded us from his version of Klal Yisroel.
What I'd like to see now, is after (hopefully) this story is publicized more (no offense Hirshel), what will the other Gedolim do?

consultant said...

Vus fardrait men zich a kop? We should consult this guy. He seems to know it all.

http://www.zingmit.com/2012/04/this-black-man-knows-all-about-stamar.html

joo said...

Is the real issue one of ego, that chabad rabonim weren't invited as a recognized "kehila"? Why should'nt every individual yid, who views themselves at part of the klal attend on their own? Is the answer or real question, chabad really doesn't recognize any rabonim/gedolim other than their own...

joo said...

A person who tells their wife they don't like chocolate cake would be met with surprise for suddenly requesting it one day. Vda"l

Kletzker Chochem said...

Anon "
"A few years ago by a bar mitzvah I was sitting with a lubav musmach from the GEZAH who married a gezah
He never heard of telshe yeshivah the people who were chasidim , by the tar couldn't believe their earsnon
"

Isnt it amazing that while you wrote your ferdishe comment, I was sitting by the airport talking to a bochur of Stamford CT, and he never heard of hagoan hachosed Reb Ezra Shochet, who is a much bigger lamdan then all the Arbo Bunim Roshie Yeshiva of Lakewood.... so thats why Lakewood are apikorsim.... your argument is as idiotic as your midget Malkiel...

Anonymous said...

YaSvav Hasofer
"If the Lubavitcher Rebbe would be alive today, neither he nor his chassidim would take part in this asifa. So why should the askanim assume that today is any different "
Lets play Hetech Petech...
If Reb Aron Kotler would be alive, then he would be busy only with Chinuch Atzmai and never talk to Reb Aron ,since Reb Yoelish was still alive and he was against chinuch atzma, and reb Aron Titelbaum was still Sigeter ruv in willi, and Malkiel the Midget was still a bochur thinking that life would be great if Mechel Fienstien would give me his daughter.... and then and then....
What silly argument....
but the real reason was that there was no Internet then....

Anonymous said...

Yes chabad isolated themselves. Yes we know that all evil that befall chabad is self inflicted. We know. Chabad is bad. Period. End of dicussion.

In the tradition of true balei musser Tzig showed us how Reb Akivas wise insight gleaned from a floating skull remains true today. If u drown others (for whatever reason) you will be drowned.
Lakewood drowned chabad and now satmer drowned lakewood.

R Aron told lakewood "if you are better than thou, then we are better then thee"

Reb Matisyahu has his next shmues cut out for him....

Kletzker Chochem said...

Eech
Did Satmer ever participate in the aguda convention? or in Reb Aron Koltler chinuch atzmai? Or are against the holy concept of Daf Yomi,
Does that make them for apikorsim?

what a juvenile argument.. for a midget like Malkiel...

Kletzker Chochem said...

eech said...
"There was just a big tumult when Chabad girls school in kan tziva forbbade the girls from being on facebook, michlal lav ata shomea hen, if facebook is ossur,"

what about, that all the satmar fights are on internet, between the 2 sides all the writers of the blatt and the der yid are fighting there, all there events are up there,
Those that make them ossur lovoi bekohol???
ask your Midget Malkiel

Kletzker Chochem said...

Old Timer
"Tzig, I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but when the TV ban came out years ago, EVERYONE signed with one exception"
show me the Kol Koreh where everyone was signed up on?
There is no kol koreh where you have on 1 page the Sakmar Ruv and Reb Moshe Fienstien, Kotler,Kaminetzky signed up.
The Lubavicher Rebbe gave a few sichas against TV, and that was enough for him...
And even if he did not do anything,it does not make him a apikores, the same as Satmar ruv was not a apikores for being against Chinuch Atzmai that saved tens of thousands of kids for yiddishkiet and against Daf yomi which is the biggest harbotzes hatorah ever...
If you dont get it, then get back in the nursing home and shut up...

עדר עדר לבדו said...

"but I know it to be 1000% true"
------------

1000%? - !כל יתר כניטל דמי

Lubab's and litvak's lock horns for years now! Espically in the so called worldwide kiruv issues!

As an outsider I observe it differetly, Lubab's are out making from fry yiden a little frummer! On the expense of 'their' מסורה yiden, how thru tefilin and shoklen liluv etc., and litvak's do the oposite making from frummer yiden with a מסורה fryer with the capturing of מסורה yiden from 'others'! How thru a blat gemorah!

Another issue that seperates them is the israeli politics they have different opinions but again they are both ציונים נלהבים, one side openly the other with an איצטלא דרבנים

!הצד השוה שבּהם שדרכם לילך ולהזיק

This inviting them or not! to a כינוס ליוצא דופן'ס is a none issue other than to settle scoures!

!כאן מצא בע״ח לגבות את חובו

Satmar senses something foul going on here... but has no clue..!

די שיטה פון התבּדלות איז גיווען, אין בּאדארף צי זיין אזוי ביז משיח וועט קומען, נישט שוואכער מאכן נאר אדרבּה ואדרבּה שטארקער מאכן

עה"פּ: ותהי האמת נעדרת דרשו חז"ל שהאמת תעשה עדרים עדרים? אמרי דבי רב: מלמד שנעשית (האמת) עדרים עדרים והולכת לה

עדר עדר לבדו said...

Tig:
!מה ענין מיהאלאוויטץ תרכ"ו לימינו

א נייע פירצה, כינוס כלל ישראל! נאך א מזל אז עס איז דא אינטערנעט איז דא א וועג וויאזוי עס צו באקעמפן
----------

די שיטה פון התבּדלות וואס מנהיגי ישראל פון אמאל האבּן גיקעמפט דערפאר איז די הויפּט סיבּה מיר זענ'ן נאך יודן! די עיקר שבּעקרים פארוואס דער סאטמאראר רב זצ"ל האט גימאכט אן אייגן אַרטיג שטעטל דא אין ניו יארק די שֶמעלטץ טָאפּ פון די וועלט, איז גיווען וועג'ן "התבּדלות"! ער האט דאס אליין בּאטוינט בּיים התיסדות הקריה
קרית יואל

Kletzker Chochem said...

Nachman
Did the Midget Malkiel call Belz?
eventough they have the cable Tv and internet Channels Hidabroot?
Is the difference betweem them and chabad, that chabad has 100 Hidabroots sites in everytown of America and Belz has one big site?
Is it all in the sugya if Bitul Berov, the Belzer site gets bottul, since its one, but chabad has too Many?
Were all the litvaks that are involved in Aish with the coolest sites in town, invited?
Are all the rebbes that have their weekly torah on the Ladaat site, even all the kanoim/Netural karta put there torah up there, people dont even print today their torah it goes only online,
all chasiduss have their torah up there.
Belz has 15 torah leaflets, Skver has there Bechatzrois up there,Satmar has 6 leaflets there
So the sin of chabad is that they have too much,,,,,
Were they invited????
what a ferdishe argument, its good for the midget Malkiel...

Kletzker Chochem said...

Anon
"Yes chabad isolated themselves. Yes we know that all evil that befall chabad is self inflicted. We know. Chabad is bad. Period. End of dicussion"

wow wow
Chabad is up for sale... You and your buddy the Midget Malkiel closed it down.....

schneur said...

What is this asifa all about anyway ?
There are filters available The computer and net are an absolute must for business and even daily interaction with all sorts of concerns.
As rabbi Breuer said would you blame the book format because there are all sorts of treifa books ? Why blame the computer or other electronic devices.Obviously we have a dor of young people whose education is such that withstandign nisyonus is not included.
So I suspect this meeting is a feel good self serving meeting to marshal the troops get some PR and allow new gedolim to sit on the dais and get some much needed kavod.
The USA has a 66% intermarriage rate assimilation is rampant, what is this meeting doing about it and let me ask what is Rabbi AR of KJ doing about it ? He has mesoros I guess one is not to care about any Jew who is not Orthodox.Let Chaabd do it he is pattur ?
Other issues like dropouts in orthodoxy rampant materialism in orthodoxy a serious lack of any spritual feeling in all sectors of Orthodoxy, sinas chinom why not have meetings aout thsoe issues.
Lubavitch is not missing much not being part of this meeting The shluchim are doing much more in their posting than this meeting will do with all it speeches and kavod.

Tibi Lotzi said...

Eder eder
"פארוואס דער סאטמאראר רב זצ"ל האט גימאכט אן אייגן אַרטיג שטעטל דא אין ניו יארק די שֶמעלטץ טָאפּ פון די וועלט, איז גיווען וועג'ן "התבּדלות"!
According to Gelbman, in his book retzoin tzadik, the shtetel was made to make the Rebbe feel good that is name will not be forgotten.... the satmar ruv was very frightened of the tought that he will be forgotten....
It epends if you believe the geler badchan, I saw it years ago in that book...

shapira said...

The satmar rebbe gave $ for chinuch atzmai, kiyidua...

Satmer and all the litvishe gedolim joined forces for many causes letovas haklal. Lubavitch - never.

Being excluded was how the rebbe wanted it, so why complain now?

Kletzker Chochem said...

Anon

"Yes chabad isolated themselves. Yes we know that all evil that befall chabad is self inflicted. We know. Chabad is bad. Period. End of dicussion"
can you ask the Midget Malkiel, how they can get back into Klal yisroel?
should they start wearing Shtrimels?
With long pants like the skulener?
With white pants like the Satmars? Like the Visnitzer? so they have to start talking the nussach with the hot potatoe in their mouth?
Like the Skverers with the boots and put their babies in the drawers for the first 2 months?
And obviously cut the womens hair on Zero....

Or cut their beards and start eating Haggen Daisz/Ben and Jerry.
and leave the hair on for the women.

Ask the midget Malkiel which directon they should take,and get back to them immediatly, since its pikuach nefesh, as you said its Period...
its a massive disaster in CH,all the inflicted wounds are rampant...
they need Feema/Red Cross.. its the end Period..

Kletzker chochem said...

Shapira
"The satmar rebbe gave $ for chinuch atzmai, kiyidua..."
I dont believe it, since he and all his chasidim claimed it is a shmad factory....

but "The Lubaviher Rebbe rebbe gave $ and chizuk for chinuch atzmai, kiyidua...
How do I know it? ask Lizerson the chairman for the last 40 years...

Kletzker Chochem said...

Shapira
"Satmer and all the litvishe gedolim joined forces for many causes letovas haklal. Lubavitch - never"
Bla Bla your oldtimer ziede told you so, look in the satmar kuntres that hirshel put on,, they can not sit even in 1 room with you guys.
Reb Moshe by them is a Kal,The Lubavicher rebbe was a yedid with Reb Moshe,and alot of reshoim tried to stop him from being a yedid...
Btw, who helped save the Old Skulener rebbe ?Kotler?Kaminecski? Sherer?
Dont ask the skulner gaboim, look at all the documents.....

0 % said...

Hirshel;
please explain how and when you decided to write

""but I know it to be 1000% true""

I don't think you were there personally and heard the the conversation with your own ears ,
I suspect some ploini aroni wanted to use you to write a rant
and you fell for it

jee said...

Its funny that you can delude yourself to think ahron was sticking up for the lubis, it is nothing more than a convenient gotcha so not to have his khal formally attend. Emergency shabbos arrangements aside, he considers chabad as much a part of klal yisroel as he does the tzionim.
He has many reasons to exclude his kehila, and it doesn't take a big genius to figure them out.
Tzig where's you pride? How can resort to such remote wishful thinking?

show me the $ said...

Would love to see skulener rescue documents!

carrol st said...

satmar and lubavitch had their asifeh in the crown heights armory chuf aleph kislev the lubavitcher rabunim joined the ceremony but again the aroinim called the shots its amazing to see reb aarons outreach to lubavitch and belz this is called klal yisroel mutual understanding

yachtzel said...

Show us the skulener documents.

גערת־כסיל said...

וויא אזוי פון אַן אונגַארישער נַאר מיט'ן נָאמען 'טיבּי לאטצי' האט ארויס גישפּראצט אַ קֶלעצקער אוֹיבּער חכם מיט'ן נָאמען 'קֶלעצקער חכם' דאס קֶען טַאקע נָאר דער רשת-התחתון מאכ'ן, בּצירוף מיט'ן מטה אהרן! שפּרחו בּטנים ושקידים.. ויצץ ציץ שעשׂה 'העגל' הזה

מ'וואלט ג'דארפט מאכן אַן אסיפה רבּתי אויף דעם פִינאמנֶיע אליין

kletzker chochem said...

Anonymous said...
YaSvav Hasofer
"If the Lubavitcher Rebbe would be alive today, neither he nor his chassidim would take part in this asifa. So why should the askanim assume that today is any different "
Lets play Hetech Petech...
If Reb Aron Kotler would be alive, then he would be busy only with Chinuch Atzmai and never talk to Reb Aron ,since Reb Yoelish was still alive and he was against chinuch atzma, and reb Aron Titelbaum was still Sigeter ruv in willi, and Malkiel the Midget was still a bochur thinking that life would be great if Mechel Fienstien would give me his daughter.... and then and then....
What silly argument....
but the real reason was that there was no Internet then....

curb said...

"curbing the dangerous influences of the internet " oy vey ,what are we doing here now ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

shaul shapira


It's amazing to me that people like Reb Chaskel Besser, Reb AY Leizerson, Reb Menachem Porush, MK Werdyger and countless other Agudites were so fond of the Rebbe, to say the least, and never missed a chance to come see him and get his advice, not to mention money. Yet you think that he shunned the Agudah and its activities?! How silly can you be? And I was just talking about the layleaders!

ישיבישער said...

so it's OK to take נקמה on Chabad forever and ever because they supposedly never took party in "our" campaigns?

SHEA said...

crownheights.info picked up the "story"

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=43612.

I don't know how a person takes achrayus on spreading such machlokes.I mean you,Hirshel.
You can cause a huge fight for nothing.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

so we should all just turn the other cheek and let them carry with on with their sinister ways? because of CH.info?

Search & Find said...

show me the $ said...
"Would love to see skulener rescue documents!"
look it up in Stefanskies new book of the old skulener, and in the book that was printed by the big chesed lavrohom dinner in Marriot...

eech said...

You really expect anyone to belive these achreimoskedoshim stories that fundraises tell now about their great love for the rebbe? These guys came twice for curiousity and now can spin yarn into gold out of it.....

Tibi Lotzi said...

Garas Kesil
"מ'וואלט ג'דארפט מאכן אַן אסיפה רבּתי אויף דעם פִינאמנֶיע אליין"
since all the sports arenas are occupid for the sium and for the Tohar Hamachne event...
so lets make it in Ibraner Bies Midrash... by the water...

Shea said...

I don't understand:Don't you believe in the issur of "lo selech rochil be'amecho"??
This is rechilus, poshut un prost!
You are causing Jews to get into a fight.

Besides for even you claiming it's hearsay and I quote your own words : "So supposedly RMK said something like "they're not part of Klal Yisroel; that even though you daven in Chabad in Palm Springs I would rather daven B'Yechidus if I was in that situation." "

So based on a "supposed" comment said in private, you feel the pleitzes to cause a fight in klal yisroel? After we have thank God, put this machlokes to bed?I mean do we need any better example than theLakewood community and the English Yated being at the forefront of the save R'Sholom Rubashkin campaign ?

I don't get it

leib said...

What a terribly ignorant comment. Firstly, any anonymous, singular story I take with a grain of salt. Secondly, even if the story is true, it is a symptom, not the problem. It is probably when "gedolim" started trashing lubavitch, that lubavitchers learned to ignore their existence. Your argument that lubavitch is ignorant in veltishe inyonim is a result of the exclusion! Would you ever hear a Lubavitcher say its say "it's better to daven b'yichidus, than to daven by sharei tefilah

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, Shea, he said it. the only question is what his "EXACT" words were. But this was said.

The Rubashkin "proof" that you bring only proves the point even more...

Shea said...

I would really like to see a response to my above comment , Hirshel.

paifer said...

Anonymous said...
YaSvav Hasofer
"If the Lubavitcher Rebbe would be alive..."

anon 931, has got to be a boreinunik, he hasnt been to shul for kinnus, slichos or musaf on yom kipper in years. how else could he so badly mangle the name of one of the asara harugei malchus?

Shea said...

Listen, I"m not going to get into what he said, just like I"m not going to get into what (almost)every husband has said about the shvigger on a bad day.There is absolutely no heter for rechilus.Unless you are prepared to quote a rov who claims it's ok.

The RUBASHKIN proof was that this machlokes is finito for the most part.It looks that some holchei rochil are trying desperately to fire it up again

leib said...

Furthermore, any dirogotory comments made about "snags" are wrong, and should be stopped, but they are an iota of treatment lubavitchers receive from misnagdim! I have been called names countless times, and I even had stones thrown at me once in the old city. Don't exclude and trash lubavitch, and them complain when they decide to ignore you.

הָך־הָך said...

"Ibraner Bies Midrash... by the water...'

?על הסלע הָך־הָך־הָך! ויצאו מים

kool said...

It's amazing to me that people like Reb Chaskel Besser, Reb AY Leizerson, Reb Menachem Porush, MK Werdyger and countless other Agudites were so fond of the Rebbe, to say the least, and never missed a chance to come see him

less than 10 times btween all of them combined, besides for chatzkel besser

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Shea

forget Rubashkin for now. We can easily say that PL put their feet to the fire... The point is that the story with the Satmar Rebbe came out via Satmar, Lubavitch was blissfully unaware of anything

Shea said...

By the way here is a link from CROWNHEIGHTS.INFO itself of R'Malkiels brother who davened at a Chabad house.
Please excuse some of the nasty comments posted there..
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=28219

Shea said...

"The point is that the story with the Satmar Rebbe came out via Satmar,"

I don't know the story and it's playing tamavat to think that there are no factions in Satmar who would gain politically by making problems between Lakewood and one Satmar faction.
Whatever the case, why do you want the achrayus of being a "holech rochil"?.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

why is the Agudah shlepped in here? This has nothing to do with AI at all! Keep them out of this!!!

מי שבּירך said...

Pardon my ignorance! RMK was in miami beach for a shabbos he davend in tower 41, where they say a רח"ל, המי שבּירך למדינת ישראל קודם תפילת מוסף מוסף the gabi announced 'all rise' but RMK did not rise! They criticized him for that! a couple of weeks later RMK was in Toronto for shabbos where they did the same מי שבּירך למדינת ישראל קודם תפילת מוסף this time he did RISE! I heard this from an eye witness who was present at both occasions!

My question when is it מותר and when אסור ?! I would suspect that RMK being a rosh yeshivah for eclectic mass of people he is torn Between a rock and a hard place and acts instinctively without precepts, dogmas or much thought of what he says or does! like most so called gedolim of today. Leave the poor man alone his acts and דעהis not מחייב no one!

מי שבּירך את האבות הוא יברך את הבּנים, ונאמר אמן

הוקע־אותם said...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
why is the Agudah shlepped in here?
----------
Because agudah and lakewood are one! The agudah of america is a product of reb aron k. and they are trying to establish themselfs even more, they already have a so called מועצי גדולה התורה here in america! although no one knows them, and no one follows them, they are behind this asifah! and if it's succesful they will come out from the closet and proclaim
כוחנו ועוצם ידינו עשה את
החיל הזה the skulener is naive, But satmar and lubab who was never in the aguda! gets it! and therfore one is not invited and the other one stays away from anything aguda as it should!!!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

that may be so, and I'm sure the AI would love to take credit for Lakewood's success, but RMK and RMS are not Agudists, they don't have it in their blood.

peter said...

Hirshel will turn the other cheek, along with many other beliefs and activities gleaned from another breakoff of judaism, nebach.
Lo mehem vlo mehamonam.

הוקע־אותם said...

Hirshel Tzig : "but RMK and RMS are not Agudists, they don't have it in their blood."

maybe so, But they are being played! the aguda is good in that as all policians are.

מעשה איטשע־מאיר, בּטשעבּין־בּעלז יוכיח

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

oh stop. Itche Meir is dead 40 years already. He was the last of that breed. They wish they had somebody like him today. This has zero to do with Agudah.

whatever said...

hirshel, "This has zero to do with Agudah."


you should become a skulener!

oh stop said...

hirshel: "Itche Meir is dead 40 years already"

When a politican is running for office! they are not hesitant induct G. washington or A. Liclon!

מכל מלמדי השכלתי ומתלמדי יותר מכולם

chaim said...

Seeing R'Aharon Tetelbaum standing up for Lubavitch, maybe it's time to call off the Satmar hechsher ban?

clueless lutvack said...

I have a feeling this has a lot to do with the R' Zalman faction SUPPORTING THE KINNUS.http://www.bhol.co.il/forums/topic.asp?cat_id=4&topic_id=2957058&forum_id=771

Thank you Satmar Rebbe wrote said...

Satmar has made great strides in making ahavas yisroel a bedrock of their movement. They reconciled most of their fights including those with Lubavitch and the satmar bikkur cholim is legendary in NY for the ahavas chinam they have. No Lubavitcher rov would undo the rebbe's ban on their shechitah due to their violence, but it is clear that they have turned a page and done teshuvah, so my personal opinion is if the Rebbe was alive b'gashmius and would witness the next generation of satmar's achdus, the Rebbe would remove the ban. And please don't cite their internal fights as that's satmars business, not ours.

hmm said...

chaim said: "Seeing R'Aharon Tetelbaum standing up for Lubavitch"

Lubab's and lutavk's evolved as a more natural alliance! pure and simple, he just stated the obvious!

the only difference is when it comes to zionisim, lutvak's are torn between right and left and winded up in between! lubab's go all the way left!

Lubab's established themselfs in america before satmar! yet they never had hashgaca's of there own on anything! until it became political! why not? I'm sure you know the answer.

leib said...

When I was a shliach in the yeshiva in miami, the rosh yeshiva, R' Leibel Shapiro (one of the ban signees), said that he believes the ban should be over.

יודל said...

ס'איז צייט צו זאגען דער אמת, דהיינו אז ער"ח סיון גייט עמעצער מאכען אסאך געלט: אסר בשביל שתתעשר.

זאת ועוד: ליובאוויטש דארף נישט קיין סמכות פון קיין שום קאטלער וכיו"ב אין בני ברק אדער לייקוואוד

הם עמלים והם עמלים

הם (ר' קאטלער ועדתו) עמלים צו מאכען חוזק פון זיך אליין

והם (חב"ד) עמלים ומקדשים ש"ש טאג טעגליך

חב"ד איז העכער, שענער און בעסער פון די אלע פאלשע מנהיגים

די לשונות הערט מען נאר פון "זיי" זיי טרייבען אידן אוועק פון יודישקייט. און חב"ד ברענקט אידן צו צו אידשקייט

פרעג איך ביי דיר: ווער איז אמת, דער וואס מאכט אוועק, אדער דער וואס איז מוסיף

הר־סיני said...

When I was a kid I as many with hugarian backgrounds where fascinated with lubab (I knew than many alta chasidi chabad and respected them) However now it became a קריעה שאינו מתאחה, ואפילו אם יקבצו כל אילי נביות it want change! but that does not negate
!הערבות והאחריות שקבּלנו על הר־סיני

shaul shapira said...

Tzig-Shapira is NOT Shaul Shapira.
I have my own thoughts on the matter if you're interested later.

hmm said...

"the rosh yeshiva, R' Leibel Shapiro said that he believes the ban should be over."


R' Leibel Shapiro is a son in law of r' lieberman the ex partner of rubashkin! he splitted with rubaskin for business reasons, However he knows the truth that the Rubashkin brand was created by Lubab after the reebbes announced boycut! and 'maybe' that's why it went down! so r' libel wants it over!

shaul shapira said...

Actually, here are my thoughts now. There is only one reason I don't want Chabad officially invited. I live in Flatbush and I have seen the chabad groups that show up on Simchas Torah. They're very nice but very many show up half stoned and try to hijack the show. In one place they came when the oylam was singing see-oo shearim rashaychem and they insisted in singing v'eyavo melech hamoshiach. On ST it's okay and plenty of fun, but I would not want those meshugoyim running around at a serious asifa screaming a gevalt geshray. I know it's guilt by association, but what do you want me to say?

BTW- I'm related to R Donny Cohen from Chevron.

Kletzker Chochem said...

Eech
"These guys came twice for curiousity and now can spin yarn into gold out of it....."
I tought Lubavich gives no tzedoka why should they be Chonef Chabad????

tomoshaver said...

Thank You
"No Lubavitcher rov would undo the rebbe's ban on their shechitah due to their violence"
get it of your head the Rebbe never made the ban.... he was probably asked on it. but it was rabonie anash...

tomoshaver said...

cool
"less than 10 times btween all of them combined, besides for chatzkel besser"
is it so, because thats your wish???

tomoshaver said...

Har sinai
"When I was a kid I as many with hugarian backgrounds where fascinated with lubab (I knew than many alta chasidi chabad and respected them"
Why were they Choshev, Because of their age? or Real choshev?

tomoshaver said...

Shaul Shapira
"but very many show up half stoned and try to hijack the show. "
you are lying.....the blood libel of 2012....

SatmatTC said...

BH Lubavitch is not invited, I hope that Satmar does not sign either, I dunno how miserable my life would be with not internet
Many more people are going to become Lubavitchers

רשימו ניכר said...

"Why were they Choshev, Because of their age? or Real choshev?'

I really pity you, unfortunate you have never ever seen a real erlicher yid let alone a tzadik emes! as a matter a fact you have know idea what that is at all! I am not trying to pomp up I'm telling you it's a fact! just like most in your generation!!! You may read-write-learn about them from here to eternity! it wont change a thingהש"י ! you can drop a 1000 names and read 2000 masa bichlich still you have no chance! your umblical cord was not only cut! but you never had it!not even a רשימו of it.

רשימו ניכר said...

I'm who I'm! The truth is I have know seen listened to learned by many many tzadiki emes and chasidshi yiden ovdei hashem beminu with misiris nefesh mamash! all temimi lev and most talmidei chacumem bemes! ללמוד ע"מ ללמד לשמור ולעשׂות! No difference hungarian, polish, gelatziyaner, even some litvishe, and eretz yisruel'dika! But the russian type specially chabad where a breed by themselfs, their eminu peshita, their עיון התפילה, בּדביקות ממש was not as ניכר by others as by them!

!חבל על דאבדין ולא משתכחין

Eli said...

Please attend this anti rabbinical dictatorship rally
http://www.facebook.com/events/320642868009045/

Tibi Lotzi said...

reshimo nikar
"I really pity you, unfortunate you have never ever seen a real erlicher yid let alone a tzadik emes"

did u know reb aron belzer.....

lozmirup said...

hmm said...
"the rosh yeshiva, R' Leibel Shapiro said that he believes the ban should be over."


R' Leibel Shapiro is a son in law of r' lieberman the ex partner of rubashkin! he splitted with rubaskin for business reasons, However he knows the truth that the Rubashkin brand was created by Lubab after the reebbes announced boycut! and 'maybe' that's why it went down! so r' libel wants it over!"

plz take your meds before u go postal. we don't want anyone getting hurt.

lieberman and rubashkin were partners in the store on 14th ave. in the 50's, long before lubavitcher rabbonim (not the Rebbe) made any boycotts in the late 70's.

Tibi Lotzi said...

reshimo nikar
"The truth is I have know seen listened to learned by many many tzadiki emes and chasidshi yiden ovdei hashem beminu with misiris nefesh"

can we meet, I want to see the eyes, that saw all this mesiras nefesh...

90% said...

"plz take your meds before u go postal. we don't want anyone getting hurt"

90% of the comments pro and con on this site is from 'you' under multiple Aliases, you talking to youself! no one else around! and you worry about others taking their meds?

alan kesler said...

Rabbi kotler did not have a problem with Lubavtich when he accepted a $250,000 from Gutnick and he does not have a problem with gutnick being the largest supporter of the Lakewood kolel in Australia

lozmirup said...

90% of the comments pro and con on this site is from 'you' under multiple Aliases, you talking to youself! no one else around! and you worry about others taking their meds?"

oifen ganev brent dem hitel, vidal

Anonymous said...

Like Rabbi SHemtov was quoted there was a cherem at one time against using a phone because it might bring bitul torah and bring outside influences into your house by speaking to outsiders.... then they ossored the horrible blackberry which of course never worked. and not internet.... they are so far out of touch with their youngins drive by chaim berlin or tovah vodas and look at every house in flatbush with a huge cable dish on top....

Yiden we live in gulus.... internet is here to stay just use it for good things....

giving an isur will never help their 25 years to late. I wonder if they have more than a minyan at the Citi Field...

Mefarsem said...

Check out the latest ad for the Internet Asifa:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2afmjab.jpg

BelzeFinAmule said...

Tibi Lotzi: "did u know reb aron belzer"

why, did you?

tzahal said...

"Many more people are going to become Lubavitchers"

Just make sure the פּסולי המשפּחה stay there.

tzahl said...

"look it up in Stefanskies new book of the old skulener, and in the book that was printed by the big chesed lavrohom dinner in Marriot...


Skulen was always stradling.

tzahl said...

"get it of your head the Rebbe never made the ban.... "

except that he did in public by a farbreng

what the rebbe DIDN'T do, said...

Excuse my English as I am from Europe:
“Lubavitcher Rebbe didn’t sign, Lubavitcher Rebbe didn’t participate, Lubavitcher Rebbe didn’t demonstrate etc.etc.”. I’ll tell you what the Lubavitcher Rebbe didn’t do: the Lubavitcher Rebbe never ever went on vacation - like all the grobe behemos - to palm springs and coral springs and Aroza and Davos and Switzerland and and and… He never ever took off one day of his holy work fighting for yidishkeit and to preserve true authentic (real authentic veda”l) Yidishkeit. The Lubavitcher Rebbe didn’t scream, yell, curse or insult any other “godol” ever, even when he spoke about his archenemy shach, he always finished his words with a brocho and tefilah that “yaareh olov ruach mimorom vechulu”. The Lubavitcher Rebbe never said about any jewish group that they aren’t part of Klal Yisroel chas vesholom hoyo lo sihye. The Lubavitcher Rebbe never ever did something without thinking about it many times and doing only aomethimg that’s going to build Yidishkeit and not destroy it chas vesholom. We are proud of our Rebbe and of his deeds, and if some – excuse my language- baal aaveirah from Lakewood tells us that we are not part of his Yidishkeit then we are very proud, extremely proud, not to be part of his oisgekrochene full of ### yidishkeit, and I don’t understand the whole commotion over this, “lo mehem velo mehamonam”. Can this D”A from Lakewood even compare himself to the Rebbe?! If they can’t admit even now after so many years that the Rebbe literally saved Yidishkeit then I don’t know what could help them!!! Zoln zei bleiben mit zeier bekloimershte yiddishkeit veanachnu beshem hashem nelech!!

tzahl said...

:Yiden we live in gulus.... internet is here to stay just use it for good things...."

?לאו עכברא גנב אלא חורא גנב

mendel said...

"oifen ganev brent dem hitel,vidal"

atleast not in shabos!

90%er said...

"Yiden we live in gulus.... internet is here to stay just use it for good things.... "

Most yiden who use the net know better than anyone that it's forbiden!!! so why go to asifah? because they are addicted! and think an asifah will help! but no way!!! they need profesinal help rather! So here is my idea! you heard from me first! sign up all profesinal phsyco therapists to set up shop in front of the asifah! and sign up all attending!!! huge businees success no? Oh! and you will get life time free treatment wow!

BelzFinAmuel said...

Tibi Lotzi: "I want to see the eyes, that saw all this mesiras nefesh..."

!וראית את 'אחורי' ופני לא יראו

set profile said...

The tiny url picture link should be removed mipnei kvod habrioys and kvod raboseinu. Vda"l

Chabad of Palm Springs said...

it's interesting to point out that not only does the Reb Aharon daven in the Chabad house so do both the Skulener and the Veien'er Rov.

tibi lotzi said...

Tzahal
"Just make sure the פּסולי המשפּחה stay there"
the pesulie Mishpocha are by the bonie olemnikes.....

schochat said...

I see the famous Shoulson has also jumped on the wagon.
Way to go Tzig!
Shoulson has nachas!

sofer said...

Hirshel,
Someone asked you before, but you brushed it off. I"m going to reiterate the question.What heter do you have, even if true,to print rechilus, that has already caused terrible sinas yisroel??Unless I"m mistakennone exists
Just to remind you, its the days of Sefirah.
Do you have a mashpia or rov?

Chabadnik in Lakewood. said...

I would be very impressed if someone who was AT that meeting said what happened, if someone interviewed R' Malkiel and asked him about a Chabad minyan

I am neither agreeing or dis-agreeing, except to say that I cannot report anything about anyone if I
a) Don't care to speak with emes
b) Don't care to have ahavas Yisroel towards one who is
unlike myself
c) Want to extend machlokes rather than fix it.

I have seen and heard far too much from both ends of the spectrum, but unless I was there and unless I am willing to put my own name down as the one who heard it, then I'm not going to write it; and if my purpose in writing is not to find a way to improve a situation or at least to minimize it, then better I don't post.


Again, I am certain that if someone would contact BMG and and ask for clarification of this issue, and additionally ask the Satmar Rebbe's people for a similar clarification, this would make the issue clear.

Probably best to get the person who is reporting on the goings on at that meeting to write his minutes of the meeting up, and then send to the two rabbaim for approval.

any one up for EMES, or just machlokes??

wishing klal yisroel a chance to do real tshuva in all they areas they need to on Pesach Sheni which will then give everyone the ability to be at the Rebbe's fabengen along with the Rebbe Rayyatz and all of our rebbeim, and Rashbi himself.

We've already polished the buttons. We've already been told to open our eyes. Instead of closing our eyes and pullin wool over other's eyes, get out there and spread light!

if CH"V we are still in Golus then please make your way here for bon fire (at night) and parade (during day) on Log B'Omer. .

And believe it or not we have a packed Chabad House in Lakewood and get along very well with everybody!
Daloy machlokes!
We want Moshiach now!

I smell a rat said...

We're supposed to believe an unconfirmed report from an anonymous blogger with supposed "inside information" about a private meeting of choshuve rabbonim.

To make it even better this blogger's blog is filled with loshon hara and motzei shem ra about every group in klal yisroel, including us! All it does is rehash old fights that have been over for years, decades, and sometimes centures.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Lakewooder
they sent out all gabboyim and drivers when they talked tachlis. All info is unofficial, ahem, veDal.

OrthodoxJew said...

the truth hurts, the bitter truth hurts bitterly

OrthodoxJew said...

they say "the truth Hurts" and i say "the bitter truth hurts bitterly

Chabadnik in Lakewood. said...

Tzig,
Thanks for responding at this time of night.I am a kollelman, so fridays are a bit easier but you as the working man, how to you have the koiches to get up, lol?.
Btw, to be honest, I really doubt that R'Malkiel said this, from what I know about him and have a ( small) shaychus , it just sounds off.I know that he is not a hater because I"ve even discussed briefly if his father R'Shneours, name came from a Lubavitch connection.(which he thought not)(stam azoi he is a very decent guy and unlike in other places the roshei yeshiva get along well)
Anyway, a gutteh nacht, before I get into trouble with my (not very Chabad yet) ,rebbitzen for getting up late and being accused of picking up some "bad" Chabad minhogim.

Yakov Kohen said...

DEAR SOFER,
I will answer your question, I know for a fact, one of the people that i know went around to all askononen to make sure that lubavitch should be invided, and he was brushed off from everyone. He spoke to the rabonem in lubavitch and they was ganna indorse that lubavitch should go. But it was abvious that somthing is going on.In addition there was a meeting in williamsburg about this so called klal yisroel asifa and one yungerman got up and asked, if lubavitch is being invided (again dont forget the asifa is not for a certain group its for klal yisroel and that yungerman tought that lubavitch is part of klal yisroel)
the answer given to him was that acording the gedolei yisroel it was decided not to invide them. we still didnt know who are those gedolei yisroel but a few days ago the cat got out we found out ish mepe ish what happened by Satmer Rebbe its confirmed 100 percent.
Now you want we should let someone to excomunicate a whole eida kedoshe yeriem ushleimim any time just as much as the lakewood kehila are, and be quite about it? no this is worse than the internet, to take a whole khila of yiden hashems kids and make them as not part of klal yisroel this is not loshen hora there is a mitzva of ubearto hora mekirbecho to eredicate the sinas yisroel that one indevidual broad in to klal yisroel many years ago r"l something that was said in front of asora meyisroel is not called loshen hora
he said it in front of the askonin in front of many jews in Satmar Rebbes house yes lets be mefarsem that this whole thing is not leshem shomaim there is a agenda there too.V'hee Lo Sitzloch.

Yakov Kohen said...

טייערע נחמן

איר זאלט מיר זייער אנטשולדיגען איר שרייבט נישט צי דער זאך.
צי ערשטענס די אופעציעלע ציל פון דעם אסיפה איז צי ראטעווען כלל ישראל אין דערפאר
רופט מען די יודען פין פייפ טאון אין
ספארדישע יודען וואס בדרך אגב האבן אפיציעל נאך אזופיל וי לובאוויטש אלע טוכנילגיא, האלט מען אבער (איך האף אז איז אזוי אין נישט וייל מען וויל אנפילען די פלעצער) אז מען דארף די יודען אויך ראטעווען. אויב אזוי פרעג איך א שאלת תם, לובאויטש איז נישט א חלק פון כלל ישראל ? אלא מאי מען מיינט נישט דעם אויבערשטער ווייל איינער וואס מיינט דעם אויבערשטער וועט נישט נעמען א חלק פין זיינע קינדער אן אפשנאדען פין כלל ישראל דאס איז די פראבלעם. אויך זאלסטו נישט האקען קיין טשייניק אז לובאויטש האט אלע טעכלוגא,אמת איך גלייך טאקע לובאויטש, אבער איך בין א ילוד ווילימסבורג אין איך וואון אין בארא פארק מיר זאלטסו נישט דערציילען וואס מהאט אין וואס מהאט נישט ווייל איך בין א חלק פון זיי, מהאט אלעס!!
איך גיי אפט צי חתונה'ס אין ווילי אין די אלע יואלי'ס זענען פארנומען מיט זייער נייסטע טוכנלוגיע'ס
מען זאגט נאר מהשפה ולחוץ אז מען טאר נישט האבען אזוי ווי מחתמט פאר די ישיבות אז מהאט נישט ווייל מוויל נישט מען זאל ארויסווארפען די קינדער פון די מוסדות. און דא כאפט דער חילוק צווישען לובאויטש
אין דער אזוי גריפענע היימישע עולם
לובאויטש
זענען נישט קיין פעקערס ווי אונזער עולם איז, איך האב קרובים לובאויטשערס, אין איך קען זאגען, בארא פארקער מיט וויליאמסבורג קענען זיך פארשטעקען פאר זייערע יראת שמים אויב די ווייסט דאס נישט, איז אדער לעבסטו נישט אוף דער פלענעט אדער ביזטו פון די יודען וואס דער בארדישטבער רב האט געזאגט אז בא דער בעל התניא איז געווען דער ויקנאו בו אחיו אין דאס ציט זיך ביז דער היינטיגער דור.
דער אינטערשטער שורה איז אז קוטלער וויל ווייטער אנהאלטען די שינאה אין מחרפיר ריב זיין וואס רב שך האט אריינגעברענט ביי די ליטווישע, אין וויל עס טון בשם אידישקייט.? געראנטיר איך דיר אז והיא לא תצלח,- דער בעל שם טוב האט שון געבענשט דעם בעל התניא אז עס וועט זיין יד החסידים על העליונה (געמיינט מיט דעם די וואס טראגען דעם דגל הבעש"ט וואס לערנען תורת החסידות והולכים בדרכיה )- עס וועט זיך אויס לאזען מיט א אויפגעבלאזענע באלון.

ohev amo said...

Lubavitch doesn't have any of the takanos regarding internet to begin with that the other kehilos have. It may be true that there are those that lie about having internet on they're phones or homes, but that is the same as you can't stop someone from walking into burger king.

Chabad isn't on the same playing field with regard to these issues. Tora umesora forbade schools from assigning work that requires the children to go online, because children shouldn't be online, even with a filter. . . Beis rivka only has a problem, seemingly with girls being on facebook, not with being online at all. So this asifa is really no shaychus to the different reality of chabad vs the rest of the chasidishe oilam, which chabad anyways doesn't regard themselves a part of.

Should the chevra from young israel who don't have mechitzas at the social events be invited too?? What for? This isn't their issue and its not chabads either.

Why are you guys getting your knickers in not over nothing? If you feel you will get chizuk from it, then go! Can you only go to an event that is headed by chabad rabonim? If you are part of the chareidishe oilam, an event with chareidishe rabbonim gedolei torah is an event to be a part of, why stick to class warfare - if this rov or that rov isn't on the dais we shouldn't (need) to go...

0 % said...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Lakewooder
they sent out all gabboyim and drivers when they talked tachlis. All info is unofficial, ahem, veDal.

and you know this for 1000 percent??????????????????????

JJJ said...

The above comment deserves to be upgraded to its own post

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

0%
do I have to spell it out for you? use your Yiddish kup.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

which one, JJJ?

eech said...

I'll vote for ohev amo

Tibi Lotzi said...

Ohev Amo
"Lubavitch doesn't have any of the takanos regarding internet to begin with that the other kehilos have. It may be true that there are those that lie about having internet on they're phones or homes,"
I see every Yoli in Willi and belzer yungerman having Iphone.Androids etc... I see them in the shuls, the groceries and the streets....
They dont even hide it..
Who is fooling whom.. its a pilpul to create sinas yisroel.

Tibi Lotzi said...

Yakov Choen
"the answer given to him was that acording the gedolei yisroel it was decided not to invide them."
I heard that the Skuleners son said that.
Correct????

שעשׂני כרצונו said...

הירשל ענד קא. האט דיקלערט אז איך בּין אַ פערד! נאכּ'ן אריין טראכט'ן בּכובד ראש, האבּ איך איין גיזעהן די וָוארהייד פין די קָאמפַאניֶא, יָא טַאקע אזוי איך בּין אַ פערד, אין ניט ווייל מיין טאטא צי די מַאמע מיינע זענען ח"ו ניט גיווען פון די מין וואס רופט זיך 'הָאמאסַאפּיען' לחלוטין נישט, נָאר טאקע ווייל איך אליין בּין אזוי! אַ גיבּוירענער ווינדער איבּער ווינדער שעשׂני כרצונו פערד

נאך אַ מזל זיי האבּן מיך נישט דיקלערט אלטץ אַ שקר'ן בּעל מחלוקת אַן הולך רחל ומספּר לשה"ר פין די מין וואס קורח ועדתו וואלט'ן אוועק גישטאנ'ן, ייש"כּ

JJJ said...

this one

Yakov Kohen said...
טייערע נחמן
@ Friday, May 04, 2012 2:31:00 AM

Tibi Lotzi said...

Just saw it on a other site...
Rabbi Hirshprung Zal's Vort
"Talmidai Chachamim...... Marbim SHOLOM Biolam

Un az oib NISHT iz a siman az er iz NISHT a Talmid Chacham

lozmirup said...

Ohev Amo
"Lubavitch doesn't have any of the takanos regarding internet to begin with that the other kehilos have. It may be true that there are those that lie about having internet on they're phones or homes,"

if the last 10+ yrs of takanos, gzeiros, cheirems on the internet would have worked, why this asifa?

based on all those proclamations, every yungerman and bochur on the net, (including all the posters on this blog defending RMK, RYT zt"l etc.) are spitting on daas torah every time they surf anything but biz related sites. these takanos, going to back the gerer rebbe's orange phone have failed miserably and revealed the truth about the kabolas ol the frum hamoin am has for their gedolim.

The LR always said that technology is klipas noga, and can be used for good or evil. the individual has bechira chofshis do decide how to go. He agreed to having cable broadcasts of farbrengens bec it is a way to reach the masses, and at the same time, he decried tv's in a chossid's home. B"H most chassidim have enough seichel to understand the difference. (In chassidus, it's called daas, like the gemora says, im ein daas, havdolah minayin).

I heard (totally unverified) when they brought the SR's issur on TV to the Rebbe, he said how can i sign that something is avoida zora and tumah if Hashem created it.

shaul shapira said...

tomoshaver said...
Shaul Shapira
"but very many show up half stoned and try to hijack the show. "
you are lying.....the blood libel of 2012....



I don't expect *you* to remember, but try to think back to your last activities before you woke up with that headache...

eech said...

I have an ishur from a rov allowing me to have internet at home for buisiness purposes. K9, has blocked failedmessiah and uoj, I think this blog is next.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

eech:

so the "Ishur" covers this blog as well? Is it part of the business that you do? and was that a threat???

eech said...

No, I don't threaten, harrass or blackmail. I'm unaware of what was done to make k9 block those other sites. I'm just speaking my mind.

And act as a flamethrower sometimes too.

Pale of Settlement said...

R' Aron Kotler's eidim R' Dov Schwartzman was born in the Lubavitcher stronghold of Nevel, same hometown as R' Avrohom Aron Rubashkin. Rubashkin's rebitzen is of the Chein mishpocho, also from Nevel.

St Petersburg said...

POS, shaychus?

Cartographer said...

Nevel was due north of Vitebsk, almost as far north as Riga.

R' Dov's father was the alter Slabodker R' Yehoshua Zev Schwartzman. Excuse my ignorance but was it possible that anyone from Lubavitch would have learned in a yeshiva like Slabodka? They did live in Nevel after all and R' Dov was known in the heim as Ber.

There were a number of Lubavitchers who learned by R' Aron Kotler in Lakewood including R' Dovid Schochet & R' Nochum Barnetsky.

Lakewooder said...

R' Aron Kotler would wink at Rav Schochet when he would return from the farbrengens that he did not ask reshus to attend.

R' Aron would have known R' Yehoshua Zev from Slabodka. R' Aron along with R' Yaakov Kaminetzky & R' Reuven Grozovsky were learning in Zivchei Tzedek in Minsk. Because maskilim where showing up there everyday as missionaries to target the best kep, someone convinced this trio to go learn in Slabodka.

shlomo said...

" R' Dovid Schochet & R' Nochum Barnetsky."

I think you mean R'Ezra Schochat, no?
R'Dovid learned in Lubavitch, I think.
R'Nochum Barnetsky's father learned in Otvock and taught in The Lubavitcher yeshiva on Ocean Parkway, R'Nochum lives in Lakewood and I don't think he is a card carrying Lubavitcher

Telzer said...

There were multiple Schochets in Litvisher yeshivos including one who learned by R' Elya Svei in Philly. There was I believe more than one in Lakewood and R' Dovid is definitely bichlalam.

Kleine Ber said...

Hey Goat, you write "but I know it to be 1000% true." then you write
"So "supposedly" RMK said something like "they're not part of Klal Yisroel; that even though you daven in Chabad in Palm Springs I would rather daven B'Yechidus if I was in that situation."

I guess you wanna say that what you say is 1000% supposedly accurate account of a story you don't know the exact details of.. go on the goat is growing a long goatee...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Kleine Ber

you were reading the post 'til now and finally gave up understanding it?

Michael David Kittell said...

It's funny because if they Had invited Lubavich then he could have used That as a reason to not go
The hasidic sense of humor is like zen, l'havdil

צבי שמואל ניימן said...

When i grew up i always heard Chabad is the closest cult to Judaism.
Well its true. Chabad is not only the closest but the only form of Judaism that is legitimate in my opinion.
I perfectly understand the Hisnagdus to Chabad but I also perfectly understand the Hisnagdus of 80% of the Jewish people (the “FRI” Jews) to “Charedim” . a fri Jew asks himself “is this the ultimate good? This Charedi Kobinator!?”
Coming from a Litvish background i thank Chabad for everything they brought to this world. i would not have Jewish children if the "cult" was not here

צבי שמואל ניימן said...

When i grew up i always heard Chabad is the closest cult to Judaism.
Well its true. Chabad is not only the closest but the only form of Judaism that is legitimate in my opinion.
I perfectly understand the Hisnagdus to Chabad but I also perfectly understand the Hisnagdus of 80% of the Jewish people (the “FRI” Jews) to “Charedim” . a fri Jew asks himself “is this the ultimate good? This Charedi Kobinator!?”
Coming from a Litvish background i thank Chabad for everything they brought to this world. i would not have Jewish children if the "cult" was not here