Tuesday, April 20, 2010

ניטא קיין כח

שוין כמעט פינף יאר - גענוג שוין
It's become a burden, even to moderate, let alone write and respond.
מה יש לי מזה? קאפ וויי און ביטול זמן

Maybe we need to change the format a little bit; give it a little injection of sorts. The way it's been doesn't seem exciting anymore. After all, in 5 years we've covered most topics already. What some of you have suggested, namely discussing a topic in Chassidic/Lubavitch history, IS a good idea after all!


Anonymous said...

איכה אשא לבדי טרחכם משאכם וריבכם

Anonymous said...

אחד הי' הירשל

Anonymous said...

Why not index all the posts on a web site, by subject etc.
keeping only the comments that add toichen.
then have and email list to send new schoira to

Anonymous said...

Veyom Tov Godel Houo Oiseh Betzaiso Min Hakoidesh


Anonymous said...

Has anyone issued a formal response or account of the Rebbe's life to reconcile between Ymei Hamelech and Shimmy Deutch's book...

The truth probably lies somewhere between the two....

Shimmy Deutch's book does not say one bad or negative work about the Rebbe....

Why did it receive such negative press ??

I know one of the people who helped him reseach who had his family threated and I can give you names if you want......

Richard said...

"The purpose of this blog was to provide a counter opinion to the Chabad bashing that is so prevalent in blogosphere. I hope I've accomplished that objective." IMHO I think you have not. But that is not your fault. To speak with R´Hillel: Judaism is about interpretations. The ground problem is that most hareidim think that there is a Correct interpretation, theirs. At least they think that their interpretation is the most correct one and that everybody else should follow that path, everyody else is an idiot, apikiros, self hating jew or some other "nice" thing. But none of us Know. If we belive in Him only he Knows what is correct. I think;). So defend your own opinion by giving the arguments/sources you have for your opinion.

Friendly anonymous said...

would you like some cheese with that whine?

AK said...

Tzig, don't let us down. First we lose Not Brisk and now your thinking of throwing in the towel? Say it ain't so!

How about you and Brisk collaborating together on a blog? THAT would be something really woth reading.

Yosele said...

I think you should focus on refuting Deutsch's bubbeh maises and focus on some interesting events and personalities in the history of Chabad.

Friendly Anonymus II said...

"After all, in 5 years we've covered most topics already."
I think you have a whole lot more to post about. In addition, maybe it would be nice to start something about the relationship of the Rebbeim and other Gedolim, in addition to the suggestions of the other commenter's, which i think are also good ideas.

J. Hirschel said...

I agree with Richard. I don't think you really DID refute much, with all due respect.

schneur said...

Sorry about your "mishbar", but despite my criticsm and others you have done a fantastic job.
My advice don't go for the disputed areas in Chabad history , but lets try to discuss subjects like relations between chabad and other Chassiidm in Europe. What was the derech halimmud in TTL?
Kopust , Bobroisk and their relationship to Chabad. The Hungarian interest in Chabad before WW2.
the Aguda and Chabad, Chabad in America before Ww2.
And then the future subjects like Chabad can it come under Hungarian influence, Chabad and Torah Im Derech Eretz is that the future ?Should Chabad start a college ?
Creating a new more structured learning enviorement for chabad post high school bachurim ? a lakewood for Lubavitch
Are all shlichus useful ? perhaps some are a waste of money .
how about taking about Boteach;s criticisim of the current Chabad leadership and mentlaity. Chabad and Artscroll,
All of these can be discussed with little reference to relationship today with Rav Shach or 1950 or the Book case or even internal fights in contemporary Chabad.
You have a creative knack, think about it.
Good luck.

schneur said...

Just another comment. I was very much involved in Deutsch's books. There are a few things in it that I think were not proper. However given that , I was never threatened etc. I very much doubt anyone threatened anyone in this matter.
It would be good to discuss Larger than Life in the court of reason, but in this case it would just cause rancor and discordand lets try to be posative (I am talking to myself as well)
I noted its selling for $770 on e bay.

Anonymous said...

I know that shimmy was obsessed that he is threatened, he installed bullet proof windows on his house, but somehow he was badly ignored by Chabad which is very odd since chasidim have alot hotheads but nobody did him anything, months and months passed by and he had police at his house and he loved the attention, he even got police escorts when he was at his FIL house in Miami, and he loved it, But the party ended when the police realized that the guy is hallucinating and having a ball on their account they stopped it

Anonymous said...

I wish you wouldn't kiss up to this shoiteh.He is an ignoramus who is not interested in *facts*.His blog is his type of "shlichus", to further the latter day Lubavitch agenda, which is to get everyone to be mekabel malchus.
Typical to this type of agenda is an aversion to discussing anything objectively.Typical is to slander the only critical biography written about the Rebbe that is factual and reliable. (for all the frum morons who don't know what "critical" means, it's not meant as a negative, it's meant as a true assesment)

Anonymous said...

The rebbes sister in law Gurari was also "obsessed"?
Deutsch was harassed and run out of town for writing an honest book

Anonymous said...

The blogoshere is full of discussions about Telsner from Melbourne and the Yechi sign.
You will not "discuss" it.
YOU WILL HOWEVER discuss everybody else's' garbage.
It's a pity that you are even holier than your own fellow Lubavitchers who openly discuss Telsner and the "psak" of his fil Groner on Crownheights.info for example.
Of course you"ll come up with "reasons", the truth is however, that you are just a kool-aided schmuck trying to prove "credentials" (Telsner is also an gevorener trying to prove "hiskashres")

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

my credentials are rock solid without Telsner, thank you very much.

If you feel the need I can start another blog and discuss Telsner 24/6. Will that do it for you?


Friendly Anonymous said...

Why discuss internal politics at a shtiebel in Melbourne? not enough politics in your own shtiebel?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

apparently I'm not "objective" until I discuss every petty argument in Lubavitch...

Anonymous said...

You credentials as a typical gevorener proving how kool-aided he is is indeed "rock solid"!

Maybe there should be a discussion about "succession"?
How long will Lubavitch be able,as a bona-fide Jewish Orthodox group at least,keep up this rebbe still leads,nosi hador charade etc?
Where will Lubavitch end up eventually?My opinion is that the Vaboylinker was on the money.Lubavitch is detaching themselves from normative Orthodoxy.We"ve seen strange unheard things(at least till 16 years ago) about a rebbe living l'olom voed,being a dead moshiach and we raised eyebrows, then we had the boreinuniks,then we had the guys making fast days into yomim tovim.Where are we headed next??
I guess this is not a topic to be discussed,eh? It's really not very important,abi the rebbe will have nachas from you...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


I am far from typical, if you'd know me you'd know that. But you don't, and you use some kind of stereotype that you saw elsewhere on me. THAT won't work here.

sorry, bud.

Anonymous said...

"Deutsch was harassed and run out of town for writing an honest book"
From which town was he chased out? he wrote the book in BP and he is in BP

Anonymous said...

"Why discuss internal politics at a shtiebel in Melbourne? not enough politics in your own shtiebel?"

Friendly don't be dishonest.The discussion with Telsner is NOT "politics in your local shtiebel" it actually goes to the core of what Lubavitch has become.Austarlia percentage wise has been the most succesful Lubavitch experiment, growing from nothing to being a very powerful and dominating force and now leads the way in showing what will become of the phase in Orthodoxy with Lubavitch being a powerful force.In the meantime Lubavitch in Australia is suffering from massive freying out on the one side and a Telsner on the other.
We wait and see what happens there to see how Lubavitch will play out and survive in the rest of the world with a dead nosi hador.How long will they be able to shlep this along?
And btw Yeshiva Centre is not a "shtiebel", thank you very much.Its a very big shul

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

oh kay. So I should discuss the freying out or the signage?

Anonymous said...

"How long will Lubavitch be able,as a bona-fide Jewish Orthodox group at least,keep up this rebbe still leads,nosi hador charade etc"

As long as the Markowizes/Yated/ people in BB will not give up on Vaboylinker Shach?

As long as the Satmarer Zalis/Bnei Yoel will not stop with their hangover on the Veyoel Moshe Zt"L

As long the Brisker will not stop with the ROV Zt"L

As long the MO/OU will not stop with the RJBS the RAV

none of the above have taken a new manhig its or the old rebbe/rav or nothing.

Anonymous said...

"I am far from typical"

Followed your blog long enough to know you as a typical kool-aider.

Since you grew up out of Lubavitch you may have some non typical Lubavitcher interests and may know some general Jewish history outside of Lubavitch.
Besides that you follow the Lubavitch paranoia of the "world against Lubavitch" of any valid critiscm.Unfortunately most of the critiscm against Lubavitch is valid and one does not have to look far.

I know that the fact that Pinny Lipschutz has been by far the most vocal supporter and fundraiser for Rubashkin has sent some shocks to your system and you don't know how to handle it.After all a lot of the strength of conviction in Lubavitch is built on "the whole world is against us" and "nothing they say matters" "they all hate us" "they are all jealous of us" etc.
So, I understand where you are coming from and your understandable "moro shechoiro"

Anonymous said...

"The rebbes sister in law Gurari was also "obsessed"?
no she wasn"t obsessed, she was very healthy mentally and as soon a hothead hit her (as I said charadiem/chasidim are blessed with hot heads) she left town ,
please read better and don"t blog as a hot head

Anonymous said...

"oh kay. So I should discuss the freying out or the signage?"

If you are trying to be cynical then it must be lost on me.

If you are trying to be objective a discussion of how "the rebbe has to be moshiach" has become a central part of Lubavitch emunah, with a rov risking his parnoseh and frankly basic prestige in defending a silly sign which is only a symptom of the madness.
Don't give me the bs that Groner "allowed" it:A)Groner was not a "posek" ,it's also the most ludicrous thing to get a "psak" about.B)Groner never owned the shul and had no right to issue any directive . Using his "psak" is a silly excuse for a deeper theme in Lubavitcher theology:Can Lubavitch continue itself without the central latter day theme of "kol hashvi'im chavivim" culminating in the Rebbe, and only the rebbe as final redeemer.
You see this is where Orthodoxy and Lubavitch are at collision.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


I see that you're a frustrated Melbourner who has nowhere to turn. You thought it would be OK once R' Telsner got there and you were disappointed. I feel your pain. Really I do. No jokes. I wouldn't be able to last there if I was you. I'd leave the shul or move out of there.

Anonymous said...

Why should I leave MY shul?
Let Telsner leave the madness out of everything.
It may not be pc to say but inmho Groner had no right to allow up a slogan which runs contrary to halocha ,contrary to logic contrary to Lubavitch.
I"m going to go a step further and say that I no longer consider myself a Lubavitcher.Yup.If this type of nonsense can continue for that long then there are serious core issues.It's still my shul, built up with some of my equity.Privately many members have confided similar feelings about Lubavitch.I recently visited C.Heights and felt totally not in place in 770.Thankfully it seems that there are many breakoff shuls that may bring them back to sanity

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I repeat

judging Lubavitch by Australian standards or lack thereof is just not fair.

Also, is it YOUR shul if you have ZERO say in the direction of the shul???

Anonymous said...

"Also, is it YOUR shul if you have ZERO say in the direction of the shul???"

Who says that WE have zero say?
For now you may be right
Lets meet in a year and see.....

There was another guy in another city who "knew best" and eventually after screwing up and being bailed out once to many ended up without moisdes...

Anonymous said...

"The Hungarian interest in Chabad before WW2."
the Rabbi of Budapest Rav Oberlander started writing on this subject in the Heichel Habesht(one of the early volumes)but stopped after 1 article

Anonymous said...

who hit rebetzin gourarie?

Friendly Anonymus II said...

"My advice don't go for the disputed areas in Chabad history."

And my advice is to clarify them.

schneur said...

There is more than afew lines to write about Hungary and Chabad. Rabbi Oberlander is the sort of scholar this blog needs to put things into perspective from time to time.