Thursday, January 19, 2012

מבקשים? נאר ביז דער הייליגער ישמח משה























From Here

Blogger שאץמאץ writing on Ivelt is very doubtful of today's so-called "מבקשים." He doesn't trust their motives. He says that the problem is that we allow too many "מצבים" in Yeshivos today. Too much Cholent, Kugel and י-ה אכסוף on Thursday nights. When he was growing up, or at least getting older, there was no such thing as having a good time in Yeshiva. And we grew to such great heights and madreygos! If we'd only keep them doing the basics and never let them step out of line; then we wouldn't have this terrible problem. He then goes on to poke fum at the very term מבקשים. I'll go out on a limb here and assume that the writer has a connection to the Satmar sect of Hasidic ultra-Orthodox Jews. This very Hungarian-Jewish approach to life seems to forget one very, very significant point. That were it not for the likes of the Yismach Moshe, zt"l, הראשון לבית סיגעט-סאטמאר, there would be no Satmar today. And if my memory serves me right, once his SIL convinced him of the righteousness of the Chozeh of Lublin he decided that he must go and see him!  He was not content with all the levels he had reached and attained through his limud haTorah and kiyum haMitzvos until then. (imagine that happening now, where a SIL tells a FIL, and convinces him, to go see a Rebbe that he opposes - which is what happened with the Yismach Moshe and his SIL the בעל אריה דבי עילאה)

לדעתי טאר מען נישט גיין צום כותל. ניין, נישט דאס מיין איך צו זאגען. ס'איז א וויץ. (חסידי סאטמאר וועלן עס פארשטיין) כ'וויל פארשטיין פון וואנעט דאס שטאמט? פארוואס מ'לאכט זיך אויס פון יעדען בחור וואס זוכט עפעס. געראדע איז דאס אויך דא אין חב"ד, אבער אין ליובאוויטש איז יש להם על מה לסמוך, אויף וואס האט איר זיך צו פארלאזען? און אין ליובאוויטש איז דאך אלץ דא, איז זעלטן דא פעלער וואס א בחור וועט זוכען ערגעץ אנדערש. און חוץ מזה בין איך נישט געקומען דא בארעדן חב"ד..... און מ'קען שוין מיינען! וויפיל בחורים ביי אייך זוכען שוין אז מ'דארף זיך אזוי אפרעדן אויף דעם? און ס'דאך דא אזוי פיל בחורים וואס זוכען אסאך ארגערס.... טא פארוואזשע זאל מען באדערן אז מ'זוכט גוטס, נאר ווייל מ'זוכט ביי יענעם? אין רוב פעלער גייט מען נישט ווייט אוועק פונעם בוים סייוויסיי. און ווער האט אייך איינגערעדט אז די סיסטעם איז אזוי געוואלדיג ביי אייך אז מ'דארף אין ערגעץ נישט זוכען? פארוואס דארף מען בארעדן און אויסזידלען דער וואס זוכט שוין יא און פון אים חוזק מאכען אז ער טוט עס נאר ווייל ס'דא דארט פארבלעמען? לא זו הדרך, רבותי. מיר האבען בקבלה מרבותינו הק' אז דרכיה דרכי נועם און אז מ'וויל אז די קינדער זאלען גיין אויפ'ן ריכטיגן וועג דארף מען זיי לערנען בדרכי נועם און מיט גאר אסאך ליבשאפט און פארשטאנד. און טאמער "פאשעט ער אין פרעמדע פעלדער" דארף מען ערשט טוהן בדרכי נועם ווייל אז נישט איז ער פארלוירען. לדעתי איז היינט כ"ד טבת, יומא דהילולא קדישא פון רבינו הגדול בעל התניא והשו"ע נ"ע, זייער א פאסיגען טאג אויף ארויס צוברענגן דעם פונקט

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

זייער גיט געשריבען, אפשר גיבסטו א לינק צי דברי הרב שאץ מאץ?

שנית, וואבפארא שייכות האט די בילד מיט'ן פאוסט?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

זאלט איר געזונט און שטארק

די לינק איז אינעם ווארט ivelt

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

שייכות? דאס האב איך געטראפען און ס'איז מיר געפעלן

Anonymous said...

The יש"מ was from the מבקשים even with his true גדלות he looked for more in the חוזה פון לובלין and he regretted not going to ר"ר אלימלך Although his אייניקל the SR wasn’t, (besides being a מבקשי ד) So why bash the so called מבקשים ? In a generation where there is אין דורש ואין מבקש The seforim are saying עה"פּ, ישמח לב מבקשי ד The when you’re מבקשי ד' you suppose to be already happy even you think you haven’t found him yet! Unlike when you seek for your keys you’re not happy until you find them.

Anonymous said...

I dont understand a Satmar Guy like ShatzMatz
The Satmar ruv in his healthy years produced (a Matzav) in his healthy years on a weekly basis, his sholem aliechem, Kidush,with a white Bekiche.After that it was done till Shalash seudas time, shovavim crying, zionist aguda bashing.Breaking legs, Breaking in to shuls doing the Stamping,doing pashkeville, Listening to Nussen Yosefs demogagery, then fighting him.It was constantly happening.... Even on the books it was Nishtakcho,but in real life it was a Chasiduus Kechol Hachasidus...
Then it all started a slow procces of dying down, and a Mevakesh had no place where to release is imaginative Avodas Hashem..
All this was a Matzav with out the name...

Anonymous said...

I would recomend that one should read ShatzMatz's and the comments on ivelt prior to judging and commenting based on a remark by the Tzig.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

fair enough, o' anonymous...

Anonymous said...

nothing wrong about loking to שטייג, שאץ מאץ thz wrinting about mevakshim reaching a "cult" and getting out of "normality".

Anonymous said...

camn we staart talking in the open?
Are we talking about Reb Motel silver Rav Kluger,Rav Wolfson,Reb Tzvi Mier silberberg, Reb Moshe Kramer, or Mermelstien?
Or old ones like Reb Aron Roth? who was considered a cult, and Reb Yoelish was Yored Lechaiouv, and today his group are the only ones that are saving his ideology in the yishuv hayoshen?
Its ironic how thinks turn out after decades.
This Shatz Matz article is very broad...
Most of the new ones are Talmidie chachomim in Nigleh and are ovdie Hashem from their youth, and all family brand names should of respect for them....
Lets face non of the brand names are real ovdie hashem... they should stay as Roshei Hakheila with fund raising,... but don't force a Yid that his soul is Lechtzing for purity to get some air to breathe.

shaul shapira said...

I don't know whether this is the right place to ask, but could you comment on R Shmuel Boteach's new book?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, shaul. sorry.

The Bray of Fundie said...

I have zero to do with Satmar, haven't the time or the Yiddish fluency to read the whole שאץ מאץ piece, but I too (without opining as to whether it is good or bad for the Jews) have posted about the Chasidification of Yeshivos as a whole, not just in tolerating "mevakshim"

http://innate-differences.blogspot.com/2012/01/rise-of-mega-yeshivos-coup-de-grace-of.html

קחנו משם

Anonymous said...

The Bray of Fundie 3:14, “I have zero to do with Satmar” “) have posted about the Chasidification of Yeshivos as a whole”

Your statement is amazing and contradicting: “I have zero to do with SATMAR!” yet you discuss and see it daily all around you as in: “have posted about the Chasidification of Yeshivas as a whole” How did that happen? Who did it? Why? In the good old assimilated America?! How was it done, did it sneak up you overnight? באין אומר בלי נשמע קולם
Or was it בבחינת, אם־לא ביד חזקה ובזרוע נטויה ובחמה שפוכה אמלוך עליכם

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:46, “It was constantly happening”

You’re trying to understand who and how big tzadigim where? Althogh all the things you mention ‘kidush & Bekiche’s etc. etc.” are still happening, and yet you wonder! So what is it that it’s not happening?? But that question was already asked by: בלעם הנביא ? who are they??? And the answer was: you can understand only the פחותים שבהם!!! But the true Tzadigim: עין לא ראתה, אלוהים זולתך none of can understand that!!! That's how the medrish explains it.

The Bray of Fundie said...

anony @ 3:58

You are of course ...right. Among the most influential Chasidisha group on Yeshivas was Satmar although Bobov, Stolin Ger and Lubavitch have also impacted the way Yeshivas and their alumni operatye today.

All I meant was I am not a card-carrying Satmar Chosid of either of the current Rebbes but to a certain percentage almost every Yeshiva mahn in the world today is an adherent of Satmar ideology, some more and some less but almost all accept and live their lives by the reality first organized by Rav Yoelish ZY"A.

What is paradoxical is that in many ways Satmar is growing less and less Chasidish (the old נשתכח תורת הבעל שם טוב pronouncement)while the Yeshiva world, as described in my post gets more and more of the trappings of the tribes that emphatically claim thet the Baal Shems Torah is alive and well

Anonymous said...

Shaul
"I don't know whether this is the right place to ask, but could you comment on R Shmuel Boteach's new book?"
2 chabad rabonim ostracized him now on all chabad outlets, offical chabad dissed him already 15 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Why isn't this the right place? We talk on everyone else!

Anonymous said...

Of course chabad has everything and doesn't make mevakshim, but the emptyheads everywhere else need help.
Bitul HaYesh

shaul shapira said...

"2 chabad rabonim ostracized him now on all chabad outlets, offical chabad dissed him already 15 years ago."


Chabad may have dissed him but the rest of the world- that chabad's trying be mekarev- hasn't. He's like on the top ten most influential rabbis list.
You can't run around hugging every Indian half shaygetz and just ignore Shmuley Boteach. It doesn't look good. You've got to deal with it

Anonymous said...

I realized today that in Hakdoma of Tanya, he writes that he made his sefer for Mevakshim

Anonymous said...

anon 4:09, "I realized today that in Hakdoma of Tanya, he writes that he made his sefer for Mevakshim"

he also writes in the same Hakdoma:
אך ביודעי ומקירי קאמינא אשר עליהם תיטוף מלתי that negates all of CH no?