True, now already the best thing is to split, but why did it get to this point? there are no ideological differences there, it's only Koved and more Koved.
By now any objective observer of charedi life will concede that much of the strife and machlokes concerns ego and money. You can call it the fight in Ponoviesz , Satmar, Bobov , Telsz , etc. Change the names and the players the goals are the same. Its all about money, power, ego, kavod etc.
How do you know it's all about kovod? Were you there ? Maybe they have different ideas about how the place should be run. The same thing with some other disagreements. Additionally, sometimes there are a number of factors involved. I don't think it's correct to depict every machlokes as being totally shelo lishmoh.
I'm sorry I posted about it, because I've refrained from posting our "natural enemies" (even though Reb Berel Powarski is not), because that's not what I'm about. I do think it strange that it had to come to this that Reb Shmuel Markovitz needed to be thrown out like a dog by his own brother-in-law and uncles. I don't think there was a difference of opinion on how to run the Yeshivah, it was PROBABLY sheer family disputes, they can't stand the man.
So is this good for the Jews? You say that R Berel Powarski is not our "natural enemy", so it seems like it's is a good thing that he's finally in charge of the yeshivah. Unless it loses its cachet, once all of "that element" move out with Markovich.
I've heard that Ponevizh used to be a reasonably unhostile place until That Man was hired, and then lived long enough that people started thinking of him as a "godol".
(אמרתי ימים ידברו, ורוב שנים יודיעו חכמה, אכן רוח היא באנוש. Or, as a certain teacher of mine used to say, "do you think that because I've eaten more chicken than you, that's why you should respect me?)
How does one know: if you read you know. Rabbi Markowitz is a son in law of Reb Avrohom Kahanman the director of the school. and he wants a chelek of the Yeshiva together with his brother in law (who is supported by the Povarski family). He claims this was promised to him at his wedding by the Ponoviesz rav himself..He not only wants to be in the hanhola gashmiuth but also to give a shiur with the likes of Reb Pavorski and Reb Gershon Eidelstein. So you tell me do they have disagreements in the derech halimud. Is Markowitz a follower of the shiluv method of Reb Zalmele Volozhiner and the other side are Brisker . No sir. Is Markowiz pro Musser and his brother in law a follower of Kelm.No sir. Is mMrkowitz a follower of Rav Reines and his brother in law a follower of Torah only Of course not.Thus these amchlokessen are different than the wars in Lithuania before the war over Mussar, the type of Mussar , derech halimmud and the role of secular studies. Todays wars are about ego and power which includes lots of money. This is just a question of inheritance, power AND kavod . among Lithuanians kavod is a major thing. There is a story about a wedding after the war in the US between a Mirer man and a Hungarian girl in Brooklyn. The guests included the Satmarer rebbe and R. Ruven Grozovsky. As was the custom in the yeshiva velt the wedding was not sex separated. The Satamrer rebbe made a strong protest, but Reb Ruven told him "daayget nit rebbe bay eych ungarische iz men zudayget vegen arayes, das is nit kin problem by unz Litvakes, unzertayve is Kavod ... !
Kurenitzer - cute story. Maybe we could say that some types have more taava for one or the other, but all humans have taavas for both to some degree. I wonder, is R. Markowitz a Litvak from birth or an Ungarisher Litvak ? Markowitz seems to be more like a Hungarian type surname, but maybe some Litvaks have it too.
That's the father.He is Polish/Lithuanian, son in law of R'Shabsai Yogel rosh yeshivas Slonim, which was a non chasidic yeshiva in the town of Slonim. Markovitz is a Polish name the suffix vitz denoting son of i.e son of Marko.Yoskovitz son of yosko, oon azoi vaiter. R'Markovitz has not been 'kicked out' by uncles, there are no uncles in the story, there are two brothers in law, R'Leizer Kahaneman, son of R'Avrohom Kahaneman, who is alive, but not well,and R'Shmuel Markowitz,son in law.This is a very simple story over yerushas that we see everywhere.It's a shame that this had not been dealt with with a very clear will.....
Okay,now we gotta wait for that newspaper to write about troubles in Lubavitch.Don't hold your breath.For them it's ok to try to knock the snags,but make believe everything is fine in Lub. world.
Markowitz is a Litvack. WITCH or witz is also a Russian Lithuanian ending like Rabinowitch, Alperowitch,Leizerowitch etc. . Asa matter of fact more Congress Polish Jewish names end with ski than with itch. There are aslo Hungarian Jewish names with the itch ending Moskowitz, Herskowitz, Izikowitz, Jakobovitts etc etc.
My story was only meant for humor not to degrade any ethnic group. I am a 100% Lithuanian Jew on all biological sides (I also like kavod) and I know many Lithuanian Jews who are in the category of lo machzik tivusa ... etc etc.. Most of my frum friends are Hungarian Jews who are wonderful people. With the exception of Bobov (there I believe at least one side is in in for spiritual reasons)the current conflicts in Ponoviesz, Satmar, Chevron, Vishnitz, etc are all about ego and power. ut this started with the sons of Adam in Breishish, so why get all excited.
15 comments:
Sometimes it's kovod haTorah to split. You want them to stay in the same building and argue?
Maybe Lubavitchers could learn from them with regard to their machlokesen, like at 770.
reader
True, now already the best thing is to split, but why did it get to this point? there are no ideological differences there, it's only Koved and more Koved.
By now any objective observer of charedi life will concede that much of the strife and machlokes concerns ego and money.
You can call it the fight in Ponoviesz , Satmar, Bobov , Telsz , etc. Change the names and the players the goals are the same. Its all about money, power, ego, kavod etc.
How do you know it's all about kovod? Were you there ? Maybe they have different ideas about how the place should be run. The same thing with some other disagreements. Additionally, sometimes there are a number of factors involved. I don't think it's correct to depict every machlokes as being totally shelo lishmoh.
READER
I'm sorry I posted about it, because I've refrained from posting our "natural enemies" (even though Reb Berel Powarski is not), because that's not what I'm about. I do think it strange that it had to come to this that Reb Shmuel Markovitz needed to be thrown out like a dog by his own brother-in-law and uncles. I don't think there was a difference of opinion on how to run the Yeshivah, it was PROBABLY sheer family disputes, they can't stand the man.
So is this good for the Jews? You say that R Berel Powarski is not our "natural enemy", so it seems like it's is a good thing that he's finally in charge of the yeshivah. Unless it loses its cachet, once all of "that element" move out with Markovich.
I've heard that Ponevizh used to be a reasonably unhostile place until That Man was hired, and then lived long enough that people started thinking of him as a "godol".
(אמרתי ימים ידברו, ורוב שנים יודיעו חכמה, אכן רוח היא באנוש. Or, as a certain teacher of mine used to say, "do you think that because I've eaten more chicken than you, that's why you should respect me?)
How does one know: if you read you know. Rabbi Markowitz is a son in law of Reb Avrohom Kahanman the director of the school. and he wants a chelek of the Yeshiva together with his brother in law (who is supported by the Povarski family). He claims this was promised to him at his wedding by the Ponoviesz rav himself..He not only wants to be in the hanhola gashmiuth but also to give a shiur with the likes of Reb Pavorski and Reb Gershon Eidelstein.
So you tell me do they have disagreements in the derech halimud. Is Markowitz a follower of the shiluv method of Reb Zalmele Volozhiner and the other side are Brisker . No sir.
Is Markowiz pro Musser and his brother in law a follower of Kelm.No sir.
Is mMrkowitz a follower of Rav Reines and his brother in law a follower of Torah only Of course not.Thus these amchlokessen are different than the wars in Lithuania before the war over Mussar, the type of Mussar , derech halimmud and the role of secular studies. Todays wars are about ego and power which includes lots of money.
This is just a question of inheritance, power AND kavod .
among Lithuanians kavod is a major thing.
There is a story about a wedding after the war in the US between a Mirer man and a Hungarian girl in Brooklyn. The guests included the Satmarer rebbe and R. Ruven Grozovsky. As was the custom in the yeshiva velt the wedding was not sex separated. The Satamrer rebbe made a strong protest, but Reb Ruven told him "daayget nit rebbe bay eych ungarische iz men zudayget vegen arayes, das is nit kin problem by unz Litvakes, unzertayve is Kavod ... !
Kurenitzer - cute story. Maybe we could say that some types have more taava for one or the other, but all humans have taavas for both to some degree. I wonder, is R. Markowitz a Litvak from birth or an Ungarisher Litvak ? Markowitz seems to be more like a Hungarian type surname, but maybe some Litvaks have it too.
Reader
there's a Zvi Markovitz who's a BIG Litvak and the Rosh Yeshivah of Karlin, is he also Hungarian?
That's the father.He is Polish/Lithuanian, son in law of R'Shabsai Yogel rosh yeshivas Slonim, which was a non chasidic yeshiva in the town of Slonim.
Markovitz is a Polish name the suffix vitz denoting son of i.e son of Marko.Yoskovitz son of yosko, oon azoi vaiter.
R'Markovitz has not been 'kicked out' by uncles, there are no uncles in the story, there are two brothers in law, R'Leizer Kahaneman, son of R'Avrohom Kahaneman, who is alive, but not well,and R'Shmuel Markowitz,son in law.This is a very simple story over yerushas that we see everywhere.It's a shame that this had not been dealt with with a very clear will.....
Okay,now we gotta wait for that newspaper to write about troubles in Lubavitch.Don't hold your breath.For them it's ok to try to knock the snags,but make believe everything is fine in Lub. world.
Markowitz is a Litvack. WITCH or witz is also a Russian Lithuanian ending like Rabinowitch, Alperowitch,Leizerowitch etc. . Asa matter of fact more Congress Polish Jewish names end with ski than with itch. There are aslo Hungarian Jewish names with the itch ending Moskowitz, Herskowitz, Izikowitz, Jakobovitts etc etc.
Noch
the Algemeiner knocks Lubavitch plenty, sometimes even unbeknownst to them.
My story was only meant for humor not to degrade any ethnic group. I am a 100% Lithuanian Jew on all biological sides (I also like kavod) and I know many Lithuanian Jews who are in the category of lo machzik tivusa ... etc etc.. Most of my frum friends are Hungarian Jews who are wonderful people.
With the exception of Bobov (there I believe at least one side is in in for spiritual reasons)the current conflicts in Ponoviesz, Satmar, Chevron, Vishnitz, etc are all about ego and power.
ut this started with the sons of Adam in Breishish, so why get all excited.
The latest I was told that this story was a Purim joke with no truth to it at all.
I guess we are back to messers.
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