Wednesday, July 8, 2009

Passing Quietly

A Reader writes: [ and I add my thoughts in brackets...]

R' Chezkel Grubner from Detroit who was niftar yesterday - R' Yitzchok Sorotzkin's shver- was The Gerrer Rebbe's cheder Rebbi right after the war - it might have been in Europe if that makes sense- [ it does, since the GR was in Belgium after his zeide the IE was niftar, but that might not be Aleph Beis, he was like 9-10 years old then - HT] for some reason The Gerrer Rebbe had a lot of hakaros hatov to him and was exceptionally nice to his eyneklach (till he chapped that the Sorotzkin's were pushing it too much.)[ I knew R' Grubner from the Lubavitcher angle. He would often come to the Rebbe's farbrengens and sit right up front, behind the Rebbe. His sister was married to a prominent Lubavitcher Chossid in Detroit, which may or may not have sent him to that Midwestern city. What gets me is how a Poylisher/Chassidisher Talmid of Yeshivas Chachmei Lublin had all Litvisher/Yeshivisher sons and Eydems... He was the last of the remaining Radomsker chassidim too - HT ]

Tzig: You are probably in Bensonhurst right now listening to the hespedim [ on Reb Shaul Sholom Menashe Gottlieb, zt"l, Rosh Yeshivah in Beis haTalmud. The truth is I had never heard of RSMG before, and I thought I knew a little bit about local Roshei Yeshiva. In any case I wasn't there, maybe I should've made the trip. - HT] He was R' Leib's (Reb Leib Malin - HT) age - from the biggest masmidim around. Adom Godel - hide the seforim when people came in - didn't know anything about the velt. As far as I know, he k'mat never left Bensonhurst, he didn't do the photo-op things - none of those chevrah [ the old Bais haTalmud group - HT] did. He had no idea who R' Elya Svei was. He had never seen him or heard of him in his 98 years. You might not believe me, but the whole Lakewood (yeshiva) heard of him. Anyways, years ago I heard somewhat embellished mayses how R' Elchonon went to the Mir for a few days just to speak with him in learning. From what I heard, he gave the shiur in Baranovitch when R' Elchonen was in America, besides for R' Elchonon's son who was killed in the war and, I think R' Mendel Kaplan from Filly. Interesting that R' Shmuel Berenbaum heard shiur from him in Baranovitch.


Anonymous said...

Correction Rav Grubner was a eidim by schlaff pure bobover stocka and his name was Rav Shaul Menashe Gotleib a Emese gaon from the amolidke velt

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

thank you

the first was an editing mistake. It was his sister that married a Lubavitcher.

dovy said...

I doubt that Rav Shaul Menashe never heard of Rav Elya Svei, as he was an eidim of Rav Avrohom Kalmanowitz zt"l, who was of course very well known by all the Alter Mirrers

GAD said...

I'm surprised you never heard of R'Shoul Menashe.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

maybe I did, his name just never stuck in my mind.

Rav Brus everybody knew. Not so with RSM

why is that?

GAD said...

R'Shoul Brus had his "own" yeshiva in Beis Hatalmud, own Beis Medrash etc.Many chasidim learned by him.Maybe that's why he was better known??
Who was Rabbi Grunbers Lubavitch brother-in-law?

About R'Grunber having Litvishe eydemer:Quite common that when one sister marries the rest of the sisters and sometimes brothers will look to do similar shiduchim, specially when the first eydem is a good guy.Same thing can be seen sometimes when a non Lubavitch girl marries a Lubavitch boy.Sometimes the other sisters will do the same.
But, be'etsem the kashe is not such a big kashe.R'Grubner was in Detroit and was not a Boro Park type of chused anyway.For his daughters to marry a Gerrer chused with the shmoineh begudem etc would be very farfetched.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

His sister - IIRC - was married to Reb Yitzchok Noach Silber of Detroit.

Yankle said...

"Rav Brus everybody knew. Not so with RSM

why is that?"

Whos everybody? Everybody I know heard of RSMG. In Europe and Shanchai he was already a major name. In the US he was very ba'halten. He wrote seforim, learned, spoke in learning, and thats about it. (nebach, he never got to know the good things in life like sushi and having a blog) If he wouldnt have learned so much and been such a talmid chacham maybe some of the 'shaayner' yidden and 'shaayner' Rebbelach would have known who he was and given him respect. Thus the rest of the sheep would know about the 'Groiser Gun" from Bais Hatalmud.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

so I guess you're saying that Rav Brus ate sushi and blogged, right? and Reb Shmuel Berenbaum too?

Not Brisk said...

For the record:

He might of known R' Elya when he learned in Beis Hatalmud for a short tekufah, but never knew he became Ram in Philadelphia

oy na lanu said...

Not all of R Grubners sons in law are litvaks.
I only know 2 of them. RYS and RMML.
RMML learned in litvishe yeshivos but is from a heimishe background. He is not a litvak.

Anonymous said...

Tzig, where did you get that pic?
Do you know who any of them are?
Baranovitz 1932! Sounds real cool. There gotaa be a couple of biggies in the photo.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

where? google images, my friend.

Anonymous said...

Oy Na Lanu
Why is the litvak not heimish, because he doesnt know about Pearlmutters overnight kugel.what a Tipesh

Kalman (the real one) said...


Because even as late as 5769 the insists on looking like a galach. When are they gonna heed the call of der heiliga chazon ish and throw their norelco's in the fire with the indian sheitlech.


Not Brisk said...


Your friend is slightly uninformed

First of all, his name was R' Sholom Menashe.

Secondly, he spent the summers in the Catskills.

Snag Jr. said...


Because even as late as 5769 the insists on looking like a galach. When are they gonna heed the call of der heiliga chazon ish and throw their norelco's in the fire with the indian sheitlech.


You hate the Bney Brak- beard wearing sngas- more than the clean shaven chevron ones- so shut up

Anonymous said...

Hillarious. I am SURE a gaon like Rav Grubner went to hear the Rebbe's farbrengens. Nebach, you guys have no sense of worth.

Not Brisk said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eli Duker said...

At least one of Reb Elya's sons learned in בית התלמוד