I must admit; the amount of Kovtzim that Satmar puts out to further the Shittah is quite impressive. I'm not sure what puzzles me more, the sentence about the REAL intentions of the Agudah, or the fact that despite statements like these from him about them that the Agudah today has more respect and fear of the SR than of some of their own members and leaders... I also don't understand the need to print all this now, I guess the spread of DY in Satmar circles needs to be stopped, and this is how to do it... The situation was that a group of bachurim organized a Daf Yomi chaburah in Satmar whilst he was on vacation, and when he learned of this ordered all the city shuls closed and delivered a fiery droshoh in the big shul where he preached about the evils of the Agudah and the deviant plan that was the Daf Yomi... the Daf Yomi was created only to hide the true intentions of the Agudah, he said, which is to strengthen the hands of the Zionists, so the learning needs to stop before the Zionism sets in. I wonder if Reb Meir Shapira knew about his own true intentions. I also have this kler, based on the Satmar Rov's popularity among the Litvish/Yeshivish crowd, if they need to stop the daf now that they know the truth about the DafYomi, and whether all the learning they did went to the S"A or not... מתקוממים בימינך, they stand up against you and use your Torah as their tool to revolt against Hashem...
לכ' עורכי הקובץ הי"ו
?איך האב געוואלט וויסן וואס איז די חשבון פון דרוקען אזעלכע ווערטער
וואס טוט עס אויף, און וויזוי העלפט עס פאר'ן קומענדיגן דור, אז מ'רעדט זיך איין אז רבבות אלפי
ישראל לערנען תורה נאר כדי צו פרעדיגן ציונות? מילא אז מ'רעדט זיך איין אז ס'איז אלץ שלא לשמה, אדער אז די מארגנים מאכען גרויסע סיומים וכדומה נאר
כדי צו גרויס מאכען די פארטיי, איז עס קינדעריש גענוג, און איך גלייב נישט אז מ'וואלט געדרוקט אפילו אזעלכע ווערטער אויף צו מפיץ זיין ברבים. אבער צו זאגען אז דער וואס עס לערנט א בלאט גמרא טעגליך שטיצט ציונות ווייל די רעיון איז צום ערשטען מאל אויפכעקומען ביי א כנסיה גדולה פון די "טריפה'נע" אגודה איז נישט מער ווי א געפערליכע קטרוג. איר דארפט איבערבעטען הונדערטער טויזענטער אידן, אשר ישנם פה ואשר איננו פה. מן הדין איז דא א חוב קדוש אויף יעדן איד נישט צו גלייבן די מוצש"ר וואס איר דרוקט אין דעם קובץ, און ווער ווייסט, אפשר אים גונז זיין מטעם די אנדערע דברי תורה וואס געפינען זיך דעראין. לאחר המעשה טראכט איך יעצט אז אפשר וואלט כדי געווען אז דיזען ווערטער זאלען געשריבען ווערן נאר אויף זשארגאן, כדי צו פארמיידען די חילול השם וועלכע קען ארויסקומען פון די פאר שורות אויף שפה"מ
Read it and weep.
79 comments:
tzig said: “לאחר המעשה טראכט איך יעצט אז אפשר וואלט כדי געווען אז דיזען ווערטער זאלען געשריבען ווערן נאר אויף זשארגאן, כדי צו פארמיידען די חילול השם וועלכע קען ארויסקומען פון די פאר שורות”
The existence of the state of Israel creates the biggest חילול השם ever happened in the world this is stated hundreds of times in SR z"l seforim and speaches and live on tapes! and tzig is worried of the חילול השם that the none daf hayomi learning will create חילול השם by whom how and when?, does a goy really see any חילול השם if you learn בבא קמא when every one else learns בבא בתרא I fail to see it where is the חילול השם
as the saying goes גיי לערן מיט א גוי ברטנורה
גיי לערן זיך ענגליש קודם
דערנאך 'עמער רעדן, אוקיי, שעפעלע
?
nobady beats chabad in regard to publications that advance their ideas.
I wonder why lubavitch indoctrinates today their TEILUNG that the most important piece of history was the arrest and bafreiung of reb schnier zalmen of liadi, making sure that everyone who attends a yat kislev ball assumes the the strengths of the gra was NOT that he was a malach eloikim , but that he had a few moisrim in his camp
So now we know the background of Satmar's opposition to Daf Yomi. Would you now enlighten us as to the background and reasons for Chabad's clear yet unpublicized opposition to Daf Yomi?
If you go to the major Siyum for the daf hayoimi on new york the punch line of all the drushes are that hashem was negligible in protecting the jews @ww2 . they are the not matzdil as hadin ,
exactly what hertzel and szhabotinski wanted the aguda to preach
Yehupitz
In CH there are more DY shiurim than in Baltimore. Go figure.
in עברית they say יחי ההבדל
I can understand your contempt for satmar, after all these statements the world respects him and he is considered by all a great and holy man.
and what does that show you about the world?
Did you notice that they used a Modern Hebrew word, התארגנו?
Anon3:26 Did 6 million Jews die in the Holocaust among them tzaddikim,tzidkoniyos, and 1.5 million children?The siyum hashas was learnt in their memory. What exactly do you find wrong with that?Who put you in charge of checking whether the din was being matzdicked? Are you bichlal normal?Did Rabbi Stein need your haskomo in writing before he spoke?
Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגsaid...
גיי לערן זיך ענגליש קודם
דערנאך 'עמער רעדן, " אוקיי ", שעפעלע
okay! גיי לערן זיך יודיש
Jews who died al kidush hashen dont need any learning for their neshomos,
The Jews who survived and their descendents if they are not Matsdik as Hadin are mechalel as hashem,
There was no holocaust it was a gezira from Hashem the Av Hurachmon who was in the gas chambers to pick up those neshomes back with him to the kisai hakuved they dont need anything heigher
Anon
"The existence of the state of Israel creates the biggest חילול השם ever happened in the world this is stated hundreds of times in SR z"l seforim and speaches and live on tapes"
was he the posek hadoir on all matters or only on this matter rather is agaddic based?
Mim Shebuch
"I wonder why lubavitch indoctrinates today their TEILUNG that the most important piece of history was the arrest and bafreiung of reb schnier zalmen of liadi, making sure that everyone who attends a yat kislev ball assumes the the strengths of the gra was NOT that he was a malach eloikim , but that he had a few moisrim in his camp"
before we argue, do you agree that the Misnagdim arrested the alter Rebbe?
what did the Satmar ruv believe regarding the arrest of the alter rebbe?
Yehupiz
"Would you now enlighten us as to the background and reasons for Chabad's clear yet unpublicized opposition to Daf Yomi?"
there is no opposition in chabad to Daf yomi, the Rebbe even send a letter to a Daf Yomi siyum in CH,
This is Hirshels point, why print nonsense against daf yomi in our day and age , because of some old accusation? why is this kovetz chock full of hate?
The Lubavicher Rebbe did not keep up some old anti agudah negativity after all this years,the FR did not let print this anti aguda letters.
Daf Yomi is 1 of the holiest of klal yisroel today.
Yehupitz
Kfar chabad has a daf yomi shiur for 6 decades
to constantly dwell on degradation of a kibtuts yidden for a irrelevant story that happened over 200 years ago is much worse then repeating a story against day yoimy
Anon4:46 Hey,brother,if there was no holocaust and the ov harachmon was just"picking up" neshomos to the kisei hakovod then why did your holy Rebbe take the Kastner train to escape the heavenly pick-up?Why should anyone defy the Divine will?Shouldn't he have been matzdik es hadin and gone to the gas chamber[c"v]?And isn't it the height of insolence to make an annual seudas hodaa on 20 kislev to mark this dubious rebellion against the Divine will?Doesn't taking the train indicate a merideh against the punishment for violating the 3 oats?The Veyoel moshe says that the Jews who peacefully went to Israel with British approval were also violating the 3 oats which are yehoreig veal yaavor.Thus even a peaceful,non violent act of escape is prohibited.It's a gezeirah and you accept it,and you're matzdik es hadin. How dare someone evade the divine decree by escaping to Switzerland and then to the same E.Y. that he claims all the other Jews were prohibited from going to? Oh I forgot you want me to be matzdik es hadin but you rejoice that your Rebbe missed the "pick up."I used to read such garbage in the Holy Yid but then I got smart and threw the paper of record in the local dumpster where it belongs.
Mim shebuch
"is much worse then repeating a story against day yoimy"
I dont know where u reside,
But there is a klal yisroel yeraim ushlamim outside of rodney street that are learning Toras hashem for the last 50 years thru the daf yomi program initiated by hagoan hakodesh reb Mier Shapira, and like the Satan you have a kovetz printing words that vilify all this millions of blatt gemorah
where does this compare to a annual event of story telling of some Mosser a rabbi of pinsk who was out to kill a Rebbe Muvhak of a certain group of Klal Yisroel, who is accepted by all factions of Klal Yisroel as a possek (even in the Kehila that the Mosser is affiliated with)??
What is the comparison?
You like the Mosser Avigdor, no problem, open a yeshiva on his name...
there is a klal yisroel outside of CH who learn toras hashem for the last 250 years and they hold that its a bilbul that a jew was involved in his arrest, keeping up the hate for long bygone incidents with false accusation is a issur gumer accorrding to the chofets chaim
and in the same you lubabs kiss up to every apikores
Mr. Mim
please try to discuss the topic we're talking about. Not "Yat" Kislev.
Mim Shebuch
"and they hold that its a bilbul that a jew was involved in his arrest"
Does reb Chaim Kanivsky hold that that Avigdor of Pinsk did not work to arrest the Alter Rebbe?
Was the Alte Rebbe bichlal arrested?
is it also a chasidic lie/
on the other hand why do i argue with a tipesh ?
Reb Hirshil
you were kvetching why someone would write about a daf yoimy story that transpired 80 years ago
and my point to you that it as rel vent as Lubavitcher repeating their yat kislev loshen hora story
Mim shebuch
Ok
thanks for trying, it was a stupid answer, come up with a better answer.
Btw,
is loshen hora on a mosser prohibited according to the chofetz chaim, should we stop learning the Midrashim on Dossen Veavirom, Korach etc...
I think a mosser is begeder Moridin Veloi Malin.
If the story never happened then the person Avigdor is a fiction too,
Is it prohibited to talk loshen hora on a fictitious person? yes or no?
I gave you food for thought check it out and come back on Yud teth Kislev
You and i know that that the loshen hora is not intended on avigder only on the camp he came from.
Since when is lubavitch in the business of condemning moisrem,
Did you ever hear the grand children of the toisfes yom tov celebrate the release of their grandfather with a smear party against those who arrested him ,
Halacha dictates that you do not talk begnison shel yisrol accept against apikirsem
Mom shebuch
oy youshabos oy oy shabos kodesh...
you caught us red handed
did the SR expell this bucherim??
"I used to read such garbage in the Holy Yid but then I got smart and threw the paper of record in the local dumpster where it belongs.
Do you recycle? Is it metameh the other waste?
סאטמארער רב איז געווען ערליכער און א גרעסערער צדיק ווי הירשל ציג, טא וואס דרייסטו א קאפ מיט דיינע פאלטשע רעיונות? אויב פארשטייסטו נישט דעת קדשו, מיינט נאך נישט אז דו ביסט דער חכם מכל אדם, און דו ווייסט און דו פארשטייסט און דו ביסט... פארשטאנטא?
Who says that this story of the Satmerer Rov is true? Most stories published are lies.
One question about Lubavitchers learning daf hayomi. Lubavitchers aren't supposed to learn nigla on shabbos. What to they do with the shabbosdiker daf? Or do they finish once in 8 years?
Ailimisher
nisht gedayget, they learn it Shabbos too
the Rebbe spoke in Nigleh for hours on Shabbos and YT too, and said that he knows that the eltere chassidim won't like it, but still...
Anon
"
Anonymous said...
סאטמארער רב איז געווען ערליכער און א גרעסערער צדיק ווי הירשל ציג"ש
on of the pillars of the new satmar belief system is, that no tzadik can tell you different then torah.
so stop with this tzadik business.
הירשל ציג 3:31:00 said... ”In CH there are more DY shiurim than in Baltimore. Go figure.”
That’s because in todays CH there are more zionim than agudistin.
Anon 5:57 said:
”was he the posek hadoir on all matters or only on this matter rather is agaddic based?”
If your gizzard has a נקב that he let your rabbi to decide, (not really)
Anon 6:16 said: “Shouldn't he have been matzdik es hadin and gone to the gas chamber[c"v]”
After you sir!
I am shocked that the Zali party is so iresposible to print this vulgar stuff, the Satmar ruv was very sensitive on his image , not to come across as an agressor. In his lifetime all agressive quotes were censored.
The Zali party have alot of the Shtieb Menchen as they were called in Satmar, they should of known better.
Can you tell us more about the eltere chasidim who spoke about their dislike of changes that transpired in lubavitch,and survived ?
anon 9:37 said: "the Satmar ruv was very sensitive on his image "
oh yeah you can see it in his hand written VM! where he attacks the agudah time and again (if you can read) what stupidity
You are correct that he writes very wild against all gedolie yisroel, but if u knew him on more personal level. He was very sensitive for his image,
He wanted to make Issur Chitun on the Aguda and his Gabai Yossel Ashkenazi stopped him from putting in his sefer,
And he always thanked him for that.
anon 10:29 said: "tell us more about the eltere chasidim who spoke about their dislike of changes that transpired in lubavitch,and survived ?"
Hirshel, yor're telling us SR opinion of 80 years ago on DafYomi and the agudah! (which they never changed) Can you tell us the opinion of ‘your rebbes’ the מהרש"ב רי"י regards the ג' שבועות, עברית, אגודה (before the changeover) common enlighten us don’t be ashamed they where real gedolim !
BTW, can you also tell us when the last rebbe learned in Paris at the university of sorbonne, or when he learned in Berlin in the Hildesheimer rabbinical seminar by neo orthodoxy rabbi YY Weinberg torah with derech eretz – borderline השכלה, Was it b’niglah or b’nister?
ילמדנו רבינו צבי are you practicing, best defense (on lubab) is a offense (on satmar) ?, or are you a closeted satmerer who בעיקופיןspreads shitas satmar? or is it that satmar is still viral and makes news! whatever it is keep spreading it ופרצת...
anon: 12:09 "He wanted to make Issur Chitun on the Aguda and his Gabai Yossel Ashkenazi stopped him"
and who privy't you to this inside info? and that he wanted to have a pizza at Izz's and his gabbe stoped him did you hear that to (shh don't tell no one)do you know of anyone that he suggested not to do a shiduc with an agudist? not that anyone wanted.. even כדי להוציא בלעם מפיהם but it happened ...
anon 12:16
פון דעם וועט מען רעדן מערצעשעם אן אנדערס מאל, אוקיי?
יעצט ענטפער ביטע צו דער זאך
hirshel 12:16 "פון דעם וועט מען רעדן מערצעשעם אן אנדערס מאל, אוקיי?"
of course אוקיי
יעצט זאג אזוי
וואס טראכסטו? איז דאס טאקע א קאוועראפ פאר די אמת'ע אגודיסטישע ציל?
hirshel 12:34 "יעצט ענטפער ביטע צו דער זאך"
מנחם מענדל רובין, מוזשי רב a nepew of SR had a shul in flatbush where they learned DY at night, so SR asked היתכן and the rav told him if not for this shuer I’ll not have minyan to minche mariv, and SR answered him so from this episode alone you can see why you shouldn’t... ודו"ק
Anon
"ודו"ק
what vedoik...
it is lunacy at its heights..
YEAH YEAH, YOU CANT FARGIN THAT THE SR IS A WORLD WIDE ACCEPTED REBBE.TOO BAD ON YOU AND YOUR ILK..
hirshel 12:41 "וואס טראכסטו? איז דאס טאקע א קאוועראפ פאר די אמת'ע אגודיסטישע ציל?"
absolute not! It is very transparent and a party ‘tactic’ as such, the agudah than as now is a political aparatus which has all to do with money and power nothing more or less, but in order to obtain that they use all kind of tacticts and promise all kind of things (just like democrats and repulicans do before elections) and just like they promised ר' חיים ברוסקער זצ"ל על הי"ח דבר which the מהרש"ב mentions in his letters of than that he (the brisker rav) means well but naïve and they will trump him on it! חכם עדיף מנביא now learning torah! Wow everyone agrees all gedolim right? So they came up using and adopting the DY as their Moral issue that will combine all the gedolim to agree on one issue and than by leap to all what the agudah Does! Unfortunately more or less it worked, but agudah with their political and moral atrocites… and DY??? מה לכהן בבית הקברות (of the agudah)
Anon
"and who privy't you to this inside info? and that he wanted to have a pizza at Izz's and his gabbe stoped him did you hear that to (shh don't tell no one)do you know of anyone that he suggested not to do a shiduc with an agudist? not that anyone wanted.. even כדי להוציא בלעם מפיהם but it happened ..."
You are correct that maybe the strory is not true,But all I can tell you,this was the talk in willi when I was a young bochur,
But thats for sure that the Rebbe never asked for a pizza,since we in Unterlander never heard of Pizza in the Maramoresh, so Chodesh Osser Min Hatorah
anon 1:00 "Anon
"ודו"ק what vedoik...
it is lunacy at its heights.."
When I'm on vacation I daven in a shul where they can barley get a minyan for shacres, but right when we finish daveining there are many well-groomed professional types who gather to DY shir before the go to their work !!!
Anon
"absolute not! It is very transparent and a party ‘tactic’ as such, the agudah than as now is a political aparatus which has all to do with money and power nothing more or less"
what makes the Aguda different then the 2 Titelbaum brothers of 82 Lee avenue and in Rockland county,they both have a party without the name party.
The Agudah has built a great network of institutions as Chinuch Atzmai and Beis Yakovs, who saved 10's of thousands of yiddishe kinder lashem uletorosai in the Paltin Shel Melech,in the same time when in Willi time and effort was spend to stop some swimming pool in the paltin shel melech, a Klal yisroel was build by the people that are behind the tomene Daf Yomi.
Stop with this technical nonsense of Reb Chaim and the Reshab. They were real erliche yidden they wanted to save Klal Yisroel not Ahavas Nitzochan.Imagine the Talmidie habesht still fighting there war against Napeloen, its over ....
Monroe/KJ is in Orange County...
תיקון קל
:-)
Zevi
"E SR IS A WORLD WIDE ACCEPTED REBBE.TOO BAD ON YOU AND YOUR ILK.."
Accepted for what??
Does the majority of Klal Yisroel participate in federal election in Artzienie Hakodesh?
Does the Majority of Klal Yisroel take government money in Israel?
Does the majority of Klal Yisroel learn Chumash in their girls schools?
And the last one which is very important
Does the 90% majority of Klal Yisroel learn Daf Yomi in the Blue Gemoras?
Anon
"but right when we finish daveining there are many well-groomed professional types who gather to DY shir before the go to their work !!!"
it is obvious that limud torah, is Deorasiya while tefila is a derabonen.
anon 1:31 "its over ...."
It may or may not be over one day, but not so fast! (atleast not until the medina is around) 50 years after the VM in print every word he said is still potent and being discussed by 10,000's talmidim and many 1000's more from other יושבי ביהמ"ד litvish or chasidish much more so now than when he was alive! you are right their is a נצחון element by those who lived in his time, but that generation is going lieder and the new generation has nothing with the נצחון element and going for the truth (written abundantly by him, but nothing of consequence from his adversaries) which is surfacing more and more! כ"י
anon: 1:44 said: "it is obvious that limud torah, is Deorasiya while tefila is a derabonen"
of couse that's my point. Thanks.
still a yid who learns daf hayomi! and dont daven IDK what if any of his 'yid' is left.
anon:1:40said: "Does the 90% majority of Klal Yisroel learn Daf Yomi in the c?"
a well known book seller told me that the majority of his customers for the blue gemoras are evengelical goyim! so now you have 100%++ congratulations! btw what does the 'Does the 90% majority of Klal Yisroel learn Daf Yomi in the Blue Gemoras?' has to do with SR?
Is DY divri yoel ?
DY=דף יומי
There is a well known story from a godol before WWII who was against the DY when someone asked him on it why he’s against it, he said there was once a fish merchant who sold rotten fish and wrapped it in ‘old gemorah paper’ (instead of old news papers) when a customer asked him why did you sell me rotten fish? He answerd him: א בלאט גמרא גיפעלט דיר שוין אויך נישט
hirshel said: "DY=דף יומי"
thanks.
Anon
"litvish or chasidish much more so now than"
Does AJ or his uncle reb Duved learn Veyoel in their yeshivas?
or they look at it as Ungarische narishkieten?
Being that the fertility rate in Satmar is huge does not make the SR accepted?
Anon
"There is a well known story from a godol before WWII "
I know that godel very well, and his chasidim are very smart not to publicize it on every street lamp...
Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג 3:37 said... “and what does that show you about the world?”
That: נצח ישראל לא ישקר
anon 2:46 said: "uncle reb Duved learn Veyoel in their yeshivas?"
uncle dudy don't learn 'Ungarische narishkieten' oh wow ! we got an issue here...
anon "Being that the fertility rate in Satmar is huge does not make the SR accepted?"
Righ, but when the fertility rate of uncle duddy's talmidim will be huge we may have a problem..
Anon, 2:04:00 PM:
Oh please the SR is becoming more and more less relevant as the years go on (notwithstanding what Frankel is trying to do in Ami). Do you guys stop to think for a moment? Which of his tamidim discuss his VYM. I haven’t met many Chasidim who know much about his sefer besides for the reid. There was plenty written by his adversaries, but you guys terrorized them. Anyway, most gedolim didn’t bother to answer him because they considered his arguments shtusim.
Dear Hirshel, reading of the value or lack of regards the DY program, I knew that SR understanably mocked it here and there, but I always wondered why we don’t see in his insightful torah’s any refrence to it – little stories always surfaced – but not a devar tora! on it, His shita was that what he says in public - not in private talks – is his daas torah to all! So I must say Thank You for your bringing forward the daas toras emes, of ממתקוממים בימינך תהלים י"ז
יהי חסדך ה' עליך
There is Satmar Lite just as there is Lubavitch Lite.Lubav lite wants to be MO. Satmer Lite wants to be Bobov.Satmar Lite wants to be "normal" Hassidic w/o the anti Israel- anti Daf Yomi nonsense.
anon 4:24 "Satmar Lite wants to be "normal" Hassidic w/o the anti Israel- anti Daf Yomi nonsense."
an oxymoron never happened never will, it's like claiming - jews for יוזל
anon "Satmer Lite wants to be Bobov"
הרב נפתלי צבי הלברשטאם באבוב'ער רביthe bobever rebbes oldest son and יורש was a kenoe shitas nk/satmar and was the official distributer here in america of the pamplet 'החומה' the organ from the NK! also from the organizers of the satmar protests! is that what you refer to satmar/bobov lite?
Anon 4:01 “I always wondered why we don’t see in his insightful torah’s any refrence to it”
My personal opinion was he knew that if not for the DY program many yiden would’t
learn at all, and than he wouldn’t be able to convince them to his shita at all! So his taught was let them learn.. whatever, and than he can atleast have an argument with the learning masses! Besides there is the possibility that: המאור שבה מחזירו למוטב
You know very well what I mean. You meet these Satmarer business people at Lubavitcher and yeshivishe weddings. They just wanna be like any other Chossid without the Satmarer "fartchepenishn."When you ask them about zionism they dismiss the entire matter that it's no longer relevant.R.Naftolche was a kanoi because of the time spent in Yerushalayim learning in the '40s but this was never passed on to the Chassidim and certainly never became Bobover official policy.Why-Bobov doesn't take money from the medineh?Really?
There are two people who were villified in their lifetime, but now everybody can see the correctness of their shita: Rabbi Meir Kahane and the SR.
the Satmar ruv quotes (in Al Hageula)a Noda Beyehuda that he prohibited to say certain Kapital in Tehilim, because the Shabateans had that customs, so in that path he probably adapts that analogy on the Daf Yomi.
But it is very farfetched to use that Noda Beyehuda concept , to stop the train of daily Limud hatorah in all of Klal Yisroel, outside of the Yesodie Hatorah of the Aroni Chasidim.
yankel said...
"There are two people who were villified in their lifetime"
so was מרדכי הצדיק and המן הרשע
anon 12:54 said "so in that path he probably adapts that analogy on the Daf Yomi"
חכם היודע לדמה מלתא למלתאYou ain't
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