Wednesday, December 12, 2012

!אשריך ר' משה לייזר



l-r: Reb Gershon Neuman, RMLZ and the Pupa Rebbe of Boro Park 

Reb Moshe Lazer Zigelman, who was jailed for not willing to testify against a fellow Jew, was finally released on Monday, after spending 7 months in Federal prison. The prosecutor had jailed him for contempt, but finally released that keeping him locked would do no good. This after already spending some 2 years behind bars for his role in the Spinka debacle. At his home a little celebration was prepared for him, where he donned his shtreimel as a sign of joy. The next day Stoliner Cheder in Boro Park celebrated with RMLZ. They had davened for his release every day for months and he came to thank them for their tefillos.

First a few words about Reb Moshe Lazer himself. Being a Spinka talmid I can tell you that I've known him for close to 30 years. He's a real gentleman, and that we need more people like him, people who practice what they preach. As far as I know he was א זעקס און פופציגער that came to the Holy Land from Hungary as a boy and either he or his family were part of the מורדים who were chucked from וויזניץ by the late Rebbe once when his father was out of the country. Ask your local yenta what that was about. רעדט א פיינעם אונגאריש, אויב איך געדענק גוט. That being said, Reb Moshe Lazer's kanous was on his own cheshbon, not on yenem's. He adopted the Yerushalmi dress, more or less, but is quite "cosmopolitan," to borrow a term from the hippies. At first he had a job in the gashmius of the yeshiva, and then later, when the current Rebbe ascended to the his position after his father passed away on Chol haMoed Pesach 5747, RMLZ was asked to become gabbai. You might say it was a fine choice. Most - if not all - of his father's gabboyim were Israeli, since he lived in Israel for most of the year, so the Rebbe needed a local gabbai. Being a vareme chassidisher yid, as well as a talmid chochom you might say that he increased Spinka's stature in the world of Chassidus. I do not know when he got involved with any money matters, so I cannot comment on why he was first incarcerated, but I'd guess that he had little if any טובת הנאה from the crime that sent him to jail in the first place.

בכל אופן, what we want to discuss here is the "crime" that sent him to jail the second time, and what we can all learn from this. He was willing to sit in jail for as long as it takes, anything, really, all he asked is that he not be forced to testify against his fellow Jew. How many of us would stand up to that pressure? Not many. You don't like me speaking for you, then I'll speak for myself. I highly doubt that I'd be able to. The haters - who B"H have plenty to write about us these days - pile on him, and the Munkatcher Rov, for the little celebration the MR had for him the after he was released. They cannot relate to celebrating another Jew - or any man's  - simcha, because they are miserable people. All they know is misery, and that's what they wish on others, so that their miserable existence isn't as bad in comparison. They also cannot relate to helping a fellow who has fallen on hard times, be it financial or legal. So this too is a crime. And they sure as heck cannot relate to going to jail to protect another man who may very well be guilty! A noble like act like that is BEYOND them, because they're so concerned about "justice," you see? Celebrating a brother's release from prison is now a crime somehow. I guess we tuck tail and quietly just go away? And when I say haters I don't just mean the obvious ones. You who lectured to us and told us how to care for our kids (even though you have none of your own, or you left your wife and kids when you decided that OTD is the way to go...) דיר מיינט מען אויך. Yes, there is a need for change, but spare us the righteous indignation, thank you very much.


40 comments:

Tsudek said...

I thought that since you went over to the Lubavitcher Faith (capital f), you cut off all ties to your previous life (if you can call existence before Lubavitch "life"...).

Interesting that you still remember and have some feelings..to the "old school"

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

it seems like "thinking" is overheating your brain, Tsudek. brain with a capital B.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

נ.ב.
הרב ר' גרשון ניומאן was Rosh Yeshiva in Spinka for some years, which is where he got to know RMLZ.

Mendelist said...

Hirshel
I think he was part of Duschinsky? no relationship to Visnitz, he is younger the the Mordim Age

Mendelist said...

where is the Munkacher in this picture? please explain

Tsudek said...

No.
Actually, it's to many interaction of late with members of the Lubavitcher Faith, hell bent(in more than one way), on preaching their immature dogma.Especially your kind, the kind that came from the "other side" (sitra achra...)to hook up with the closest......
It's around Chanukka and your self proclaimed "Chag Hachagim" that members of your group become especially nauseating

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Mendelist:

see Here

Tsudek said...

ניומאן was your rebbe in Chasan Sofer

Mendelist said...

so what is the argument against the Munkacher? that he should of dance more? nonsense
Maybe he knows its not good for the future procedures, I heard he is not done with the reshoim yet?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

it's not an "argument," it's stam gehakt.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I could very well be wrong about Vizhnitz or Dushinsky. If you can, please find out for sure.

Roeh said...

I envy the okshunus. However, its a sakana mamash to celebrate b'rabim or to report on such celebrations. I believe one of the reasons SMR is where he is today is because he fifed when he got out on bail. A low profile is the best profile.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

roeh

so judges take revenge now?

Roeh said...

No, but prosecutors do.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

and this is OK?

tibi lotzi said...

Hirshel
Judges take revenge too?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

No he wasn't. Shows us what you know...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Neuman was NOT in Ch'san Sofer, Tsudek.

azigra said...

"How many of us would stand up to that pressure?"

I hope nobody. He committed a crime by protecting criminals and was punished accordingly.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Azi
are you an observant Jew?

lilmoid ani tzurich said...

Tzig, I am trying to think through the difference between this situation and somebody in the projects on 125th Street not reporting a neighbor or fellow gang-member that commited a murder. Is the difference between the two situations, the reason one is commendable and the other deplorable, based only on the difference in severity of the crimes or are there other differences?

azigra said...

yes

yankel said...

People may or may not believe that this person was right. However, there is nothing about the incorrectness of this man's opinion that deserves the title 'hater'. You are effectively silencing any dissent to your opinion by labeling them haters. That is not intellectually honest.
BTW, it seems that the worst thing in your dictionary is a hater. If you can attach that label to someone, his opinion is immediately discredited. Can you back up that attitude with anything other than the hippy sensibilities of the radical 1960s?

moshe moshel said...

The realities of our times must be faced. Both SMR and that filmaker woman from Iowa spat at the prosecution and paid a hefty price. You cannot accuse the judges or prosecuters of being vengeful with out solid proof but if derided you cannot expect rachmonis from them either.

Personally I have great pity on them both. But I have even greater rachmonis on the chevre that Dweck entrapped. They and their families are suffering horribly as they rot in prison. No campaigns to help them, barely any sympathy from the average joe on the street ...

This party for Ziegelman, while deserved, should not have been publicised.

BMG Bum said...

moshe moshel: "This party for Ziegelman, while deserved, should not have been publicised."

Maybe the nes chanukah shouldn't of be publicized either?, But I'm sure the 'nisi' hatziyonim in spite of the whole world against them, should be publicized right?
or when israel is befallen of 1000's of rockets der belzer can sing-along וכל קרני רשעים אגדע that should be ok right? no provocation there! tipish godel einer.

לעושה נפלאות גדולי לבדו כי לעולם חסדו

לעושה נפלאות גדולי לבדו כי לעולם חסדו

לעושה נפלאות גדולי לבדו כי לעולם חסדו



Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

So then, Azigra, if you are a religious Jew, why then would an issue with him following Halacha that forbids him from testifying in court?

פוטם אראפ said...

moshe moshel: "Both SMR and that filmaker woman from Iowa spat at the prosecution and paid a hefty price" "But I have even greater rachmonis on the chevre that Dweck entrapped."

די אלטער-קאקער-פון-סלאבאטקע ווען "דיינער" שכנותדיג שטובעל וויא די דרשנס'ט דיינע דברי
דופי ביזט דארט א יום זה מכובד נישט אזוי! פארלעצט א יעדע לאקאלע געזעץ אויף א פרעכען אויפ'ן, ענפערט צום שטשאט-ראט אין געריכט פאר איעדע 'הזמנה' מיט עזות אין חציפות יאהר איין אין אויס! דערצערענט אלע שכינים! בטלית שכולו טחות האבן זיי יאהר'ן אפילו די אייגענע מטמא גיווען מיט א מקוה פסולה כידוע! אלעס פארוואס? כדי צי באגנב'ן אין באגזל'ן אנשי תמימי לב אין די הונדערטער טויזענטער! ניט אפילו מעלדען זייער הכנסה, האסטו רחמנות אויף די בגנבט'ע? האסטו מוחה גיווען? האסטו זיך מונע גיווען פון א שטיקעלק שמאלץ הערינג דארט? האסטו
?שוין באצאלט מקוה פסולה געלט אימער
..החולק עם הגנב

weinstock said...

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
So then, Azigra, if you are a religious Jew, why then would an issue with him following Halacha that forbids him from testifying in court?
---------------

I know this person for years he is beyond his times a true tzadig even before they put him to jail! multiply times 1000 now! obviously being a true chasidher yid he had no clue of the spininnings around him! בתום לב ובנקיון כפו עשה זאת certainly no intent!

אשריך ר' משה שנתפסת על דברי תורה. אוי לו אזוי-גרע, שנתפס על דברים בטלים

ps: I remember similiar happenings in the nursing home scandals when the witch hunt of the media and the infamous special prosecutor *Charles Hynes put Bergman away.


*the special prosecutor-after an investigation- "was unable to produce even a single current allegation against Dr. Bergman involving patient care

azigra said...

1) it is my opinion that Jews living in america should be subject to the legal and justice system of this country. Just like all other people, regardless of race or religion.
2) there is no halacha of mesira in this country, there is no gulag or dungeon like in feudal Europe.

3) and frankly, chassidim who still cling to the lie of messira are always the ones commiting crimes. or associated with it. hmmmm doesnt that make you stop and think? dont you see the hypocrisy? is this guy claiming "messira" a tzadik? of course not, if he was truly as he presents himself to be he would have resigned from his possision years ago on moral grounds.

4) this is just a way for criminals and their supporters to get away with it.

lilmoid ani tzurich said...

Does halacha really require a person not to report another Jew even when that Jew engaged in illegal activity? How can we explain this to our non-Jewish and non-religious friends and neighbors? If we are aware of another Jew that committed a crime we are not permitted to cooperate with law enforcement seeking to enfoce the law against that crime?? But we consider it wrong when others don't cooperate with law enforcement?? On what moral or ethical ground can we justify this? Can somebody please provide a reasonable answer? Is this what the Torah really wants of us??

'כיתה א said...

lilmoid ani tzurich: "Can somebody please provide a reasonable answer?"

!יונגעלע גיי אין חדר אריין

Melamed Dedarki said...

lilmoid ani tzurich said
"Does halacha really require a person not to report another Jew even when that Jew engaged in illegal activity
"
you got to stop browsing and start with the basics

JPost/Forward said...


"On what moral or ethical ground can we justify this?"
Antisemitism for starters!

Here some basics:

פארווערטס/FORWARD:
Was Nechemya Weberman on Trial — or Satmars?
Brooklyn Prosecutors Took Aim at Hasidic Group's Way of Life

http://forward.com/articles/167592/was-nechemya-weberman-on-trial-or-satmars/
-----------------------

Washington - CIA: Pollard's Life Sentence Due To 'Jerusalem Post' Interview
Israeli agent Jonathan Pollard received a life sentence because he violated a plea agreement he had signed, by giving an unauthorized interview to The Jerusalem Post, according to the newly declassified 1987 CIA damage assessment of the Pollard case

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=296217
---------------------

9 1/2 :אי-קיו said...


:כדי שלא להוציא הנייר חלק האי לך זה

אה"כ: אבינו מת במדבר והוא לא־היה בתוך העדה הנועדים על־ד' בעדת־קרח כי־בחטאו מת!. כנראה מי 'שבחטאו מת' יש לו חלק ונחלה בקהל ד'!. לא כן הרשעים הללו הנועדים על עדת ד', פוערין פיהם ומתריזים מאחורי הגדר 'הרשת-התחתון' קיא צואה פעמיים בכל יום על כל הקודש! ורוצים לעקור את הכל בהפצת לשה"ר רכילות ליצנות ונבלות, מינות ואפיקורסת שלהם, נידונין לדורי דורות! גיהנם כלה והם אינם כלין. ואת נפש אויביך יקלענה בתוך כף הקלע, אלו נשמותיהן של רשעים הללו שהן יורדות לגיהנם למטה, שנאמר ביום רדתו שאלה האבלתי כסתי עליו את תהום וגו'.אכיה"ר

!אי-קיו למתה מעשרה ממש

zzz said...

azigra said... "it is my opinion.."

You are correct it is 'your opinion' a qualified !דעת תורא I'm sure. btw, is dwek & co. chasidim? Is your local kolel chasidim? are the lakewoode'r who kidnaped someone in a divorce issue chasidim? are you ?מזרע עמלק So did you get an govt informers job? as a whistle blower? why not they pay good.

https://twitter.com/azigra:
if israel didn't let noam chomsky past the airport then they shouldnt let zalman palmtree in either

azigra said...

Firstly, to whomever posted my Noam Chomsky tweet, thank you! it was one of my finest tweets ever.

Secondly, Daas Torah is not real, it isnt a real concept and had no basis outside your imagination. Yes, I shared my opinion and that is all that matters for me. I am fully within the limits of Halacha in saying so, as there are many opinions that Messira is not applicable in this fair and good country of ours.

And just to repeat, its only criminals who claim mesirara as a way to get away with crime. If they were really such tzadikim they wouldnt have been involved in the first place. Where there is smoke there is fire.

ברכות סב ע"א said...

First Grade and Melamed,

אין חדר בין איך געווען פינקט ווי דיר, אין א מסכת צוויי האב איך אויך געלערענט, אבער מיין פראגע איז אלץ פראגע. אהן א תשובה בלייבט עס קשיא

עבר ובטל'ניק said...

ברכות סב ע"א: דיר, אין א מסכת צוויי האב איך אויך געלערענט, אבער מיין פראגע איז אלץ פראגע. אהן א תשובה בלייבט
---------------

סתם מקשן ע"ה הוא! נא לחסול מלימידך תומ"י כי למשמאילים סמא דמותא הוא

santa claus II said...

azigra said: "Daas Torah is not real, it isnt a real concept and had no basis outside your imagination."

Can you share with us your less boring and more colorful imaginations!?

Elder of Ziyon said...

azigra said: " Where there is smoke there is fire."

Who said so??