The point, which I'm sure you're all waiting to hear, is as follows:
Many Chassidishe Rabbeyim who had a strong connection to Chabad and who were helped by them came to America and were re-educated by the haters. They would come to the Rebbe because they saw what he had done for "his people" and what his people had done for Yiddishkeit in the FSU.
However, they were soon taught that אמעריקא איז יא אנדערש! and in America you need to walk lock-step with certain groups and do as they say. Otherwise you too will be ostracized.
First of all, I came across this site and I am very impressed with it. Glad to have found you. Second, is that really the Skulener? Doesn't look like him. maybe its his father?
The previous Skulener was the only Rebbe that wouldn't leave CH until the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave him his brocha - which he did after the Skulener had no minyan anymore. I heard from a Skulener Chossid that the old Skulener on occasion would ask to be taken to 770 for Farbengenishen (19 Kislev, etc.) - but the gabboim didn't approve of this, so they would dive him around for hours and never get to 770...
Tzig, with the usual cheap propoganda. The truth is Lubavitch would not even support the Skulener by sending him some people to support his minyan.Basically he was forced to move.
This is the discussion I had in mind. Instead of believing stories that actually happened and that can be easily verified, you choose to ignore them because they don't fit your agenda.
I have a better idea: Why not disassociate yourelf with any Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva that EVER had any connection with the Rebbe? That way you'll have a clear conscience and sleep peacefully at night!
Tzig speaking about agendas! Your agenda is to force us, the rational heimishe oilem to accept someone as 'manhig hador' 'nossi hador, moshiach etc who we have never felt comfortable with, BEORE this false moshiach mess.Get it??? Do you want us to accept it now, when those 'fremdeh' concepts have given birth to a whole cult, that pushes the deceased Rebbe as alive forever and ever, at best or as 'Boreinu' chas vesholom? You so called 'normal' Chabadskers have your own problems and don't want/know how to deal with it so you 'project' your nonsense on us.We don't hate you, we have rachmonus.Get up, kick the crazies out of your midst, realize the Rebbe screwed up a bit, but that does not take away from the great things he achieved
Please feel free to express your opinions, but a bit of honesty would be refreshing.
This bilge that you heard, and feel obligated to repeat, from your daddy or teacher or rebbi or whatever was being pumped long before there was any hint of boreinu, eloikenua, malkeinu, nafsheinu, etc. ad nauseam. For that matter, before atzmus umahus beguph gashmi and shor shenogoch.
And the ad hominum's, delivered by non-other than the august personalities who names appeared after the title Maran in agudah literature, were not always reserved for those in the chabad universe, but any herring-chomping, whiskey-guzzling long-coated furry heads who got in their way (witness Moshe'la Vishnitzer who got whacked by one such Maran when he stepped out of line).
What this is all about, sonny, is (sorry Tzig for being repetive) the micharchei riv who would stir up a controversy that had long ago petered out.
So keep on posting, dear freind, but read, learn, listen, observe, and most of all, contemplate before regurgitating this old sewage.
We're speaking of the pressure applied by the "askonim" to explian to the "gedolim" that what they'd like to do isn't becoming behavior. This goes to for the Skulener Rebbe, the Ribnitzer Rebbe, and even to Reb Nochum Percovitz! Reb Lazer Yudel's own son-in-law (I believe) who stepped out of line, came to Yechidus of with the Rebbe, sat at the Farbrengen with the Rebbe, and was rewarded by the man from Vaboilnik by not having him attend his Levaya for this grave transgression..... see my pattern?
Bpunbound, Did you READ my post? I wrote that we, the heimishe oilem were always uncomfortable with the Rebbe,before this latest SEWAGE as you call it? Not surprised that you did not make it in a 'learning' yeshiva and had to change to 770, your maggid shiur must've gone nuts teaching you basic Talmud
Uncomfortable? but of course. He was out of the blase league of the American Roshei Yeshiva, yes even after WW2, and was a conformist when it came to the (hungarian)Rabbonim. That proves what?
As I've said in the past, and continue to maintain, personal invective seems to be endemic with the "opponents", betraying the fact that their opposition derives not from a sense of conviction, but rather base hatred.
VML, I suggest that YOU read MY post, because I was quite clear that the sewage I was refering to was that baseless hatred spewed on chassidim by small minds (guess who) over the past half century.
Furthermore, as to YOUR post, you wouldn't know the "heimeishe oilom", who they are or what they feel, if it fell on you head. The "heimeshe oilom" was not 'uncomfortable', as you claim, with chabad or the Rebbe, rather a few lilliputians (hut zei ya keken shas, nit keken shas, mach nit ois) that held positions of power, and used that power to lead a campaign to fill minds, young and old, with hatred torwards fellow Jews.
VEHORAIYAH, az es treft zich a yidden, farshikt (behasgocho protis) in an ort ver veis vu, un er treft a tzveitin yid vus shteit dort oifin vacht, bemisiros nafshoi, there just so yeneh will have a kosher meal to eat or a minyan, ret er shoin der yidden gor andresh.
And I speak from personal experience, anytime a so-called heimeshe gets "out" of his own beclouded environment and "sees" and experiences with his own "eyes", sei bemachshova, sei bdibur, sei bemayso, what the Rebbe built, he begins to question the propaganda that was injected in him like mothers milk meyoim hivoldo.
May I make a few factual remarks about the Skulener rebbe father and son.. Firstly the rebbe was NOT of Rebbische stock. The old Skulener was the RAV not rebbe of Skulen . He together with some men who would later on become chashuvim (the Ribnitzer rebbe , and the legendary Reb MOshe Gabbe of New Skver) were Chassidm of Rav Avrohom Matisyahu Friedman the rebbe of Stefaneshti a grandson of the Rizhiner.He passed away in the mid 1930's leaving no successor as rebbe. Next the Skulener rebbe was not a Hungarian rav. Skulen is in EASTERN Rumania part of M oldavia bordering on Bukowina. the Yiddishkait there resembled Ukranian Judaism not Hungarian. The Skulener had no Messorah of Kaanoiuth , rather as a Rizhiner Chasid he had a great deal of respect for Chaside chabad and their leaders. This last point helps explain his closeness to Chabad and the Lubavitcher rebbe. Of course over the years Skulen too has become infected by the Hungarian "virus" and by the Rebbische lifestyle and politics. Although people tell me the Rebbe shlit'a is a gor erlicher Yid.
21 comments:
I see what looks like a Chasidishe Rebbe, or at least the descendant of one. I would guess that it's the Skulener Rebbe, who lived in CH at the time?
Avremelle, I'm impressed.
The point, which I'm sure you're all waiting to hear, is as follows:
Many Chassidishe Rabbeyim who had a strong connection to Chabad and who were helped by them came to America and were re-educated by the haters. They would come to the Rebbe because they saw what he had done for "his people" and what his people had done for Yiddishkeit in the FSU.
However, they were soon taught that אמעריקא איז יא אנדערש! and in America you need to walk lock-step with certain groups and do as they say. Otherwise you too will be ostracized.
So they never came back.
It's a crying shame.
First of all, I came across this site and I am very impressed with it. Glad to have found you. Second, is that really the Skulener? Doesn't look like him. maybe its his father?
it is his father, the Previous Skulener Rebbe, zt"l.
Thanks for the compliment.
which one are you referring to exactly?
anonymous
I ask that you choose a screenname and tick with it, otherwise you will not be addressed simply because we don't know who we're talking to!
I am referring to the OLD Skulener Rebbe, Reb Eliezer Zusia Portugal, zt"l.
The previous Skulener was the only Rebbe that wouldn't leave CH until the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave him his brocha - which he did after the Skulener had no minyan anymore.
I heard from a Skulener Chossid that the old Skulener on occasion would ask to be taken to 770 for Farbengenishen (19 Kislev, etc.) - but the gabboim didn't approve of this, so they would dive him around for hours and never get to 770...
Tzig, with the usual cheap propoganda.
The truth is Lubavitch would not even support the Skulener by sending him some people to support his minyan.Basically he was forced to move.
Zezmir, remind me the last the Rebbe shlit'a showed up at any other rabbi/rebbe?Who did not allow, the gabboim?
Practice what you preach or shut up.
Vaiter
This is the discussion I had in mind. Instead of believing stories that actually happened and that can be easily verified, you choose to ignore them because they don't fit your agenda.
I have a better idea: Why not disassociate yourelf with any Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva that EVER had any connection with the Rebbe? That way you'll have a clear conscience and sleep peacefully at night!
Tzig speaking about agendas!
Your agenda is to force us, the rational heimishe oilem to accept someone as 'manhig hador' 'nossi hador, moshiach etc who we have never felt comfortable with, BEORE this false moshiach mess.Get it???
Do you want us to accept it now, when those 'fremdeh' concepts have given birth to a whole cult, that pushes the deceased Rebbe as alive forever and ever, at best or as 'Boreinu' chas vesholom?
You so called 'normal' Chabadskers have your own problems and don't want/know how to deal with it so you 'project' your nonsense on us.We don't hate you, we have rachmonus.Get up, kick the crazies out of your midst, realize the Rebbe screwed up a bit, but that does not take away from the great things he achieved
VML,
Please feel free to express your opinions, but a bit of honesty would be refreshing.
This bilge that you heard, and feel obligated to repeat, from your daddy or teacher or rebbi or whatever was being pumped long before there was any hint of boreinu, eloikenua, malkeinu, nafsheinu, etc. ad nauseam. For that matter, before atzmus umahus beguph gashmi and shor shenogoch.
And the ad hominum's, delivered by non-other than the august personalities who names appeared after the title Maran in agudah literature, were not always reserved for those in the chabad universe, but any herring-chomping, whiskey-guzzling long-coated furry heads who got in their way (witness Moshe'la Vishnitzer who got whacked by one such Maran when he stepped out of line).
What this is all about, sonny, is (sorry Tzig for being repetive) the micharchei riv who would stir up a controversy that had long ago petered out.
So keep on posting, dear freind, but read, learn, listen, observe, and most of all, contemplate before regurgitating this old sewage.
But that again is somewhat beside the point;
We're speaking of the pressure applied by the "askonim" to explian to the "gedolim" that what they'd like to do isn't becoming behavior. This goes to for the Skulener Rebbe, the Ribnitzer Rebbe, and even to Reb Nochum Percovitz! Reb Lazer Yudel's own son-in-law (I believe) who stepped out of line, came to Yechidus of with the Rebbe, sat at the Farbrengen with the Rebbe, and was rewarded by the man from Vaboilnik by not having him attend his Levaya for this grave transgression.....
see my pattern?
Bpunbound,
Did you READ my post?
I wrote that we, the heimishe oilem were always uncomfortable with the Rebbe,before this latest SEWAGE as you call it?
Not surprised that you did not make it in a 'learning' yeshiva and had to change to 770, your maggid shiur must've gone nuts teaching you basic Talmud
Uncomfortable? but of course. He was out of the blase league of the American Roshei Yeshiva, yes even after WW2, and was a conformist when it came to the (hungarian)Rabbonim. That proves what?
VML
oh, and also, please refrain from making personal, offensive comments about a poster's ability, or lack thereof, to navigate a page of Talmud.
As I've said in the past, and continue to maintain, personal invective seems to be endemic with the "opponents", betraying the fact that their opposition derives not from a sense of conviction, but rather base hatred.
VML, I suggest that YOU read MY post, because I was quite clear that the sewage I was refering to was that baseless hatred spewed on chassidim by small minds (guess who) over the past half century.
Furthermore, as to YOUR post, you wouldn't know the "heimeishe oilom", who they are or what they feel, if it fell on you head. The "heimeshe oilom" was not 'uncomfortable', as you claim, with chabad or the Rebbe, rather a few lilliputians (hut zei ya keken shas, nit keken shas, mach nit ois) that held positions of power, and used that power to lead a campaign to fill minds, young and old, with hatred torwards fellow Jews.
VEHORAIYAH, az es treft zich a yidden, farshikt (behasgocho protis) in an ort ver veis vu, un er treft a tzveitin yid vus shteit dort oifin vacht, bemisiros nafshoi, there just so yeneh will have a kosher meal to eat or a minyan, ret er shoin der yidden gor andresh.
And I speak from personal experience, anytime a so-called heimeshe gets "out" of his own beclouded environment and "sees" and experiences with his own "eyes", sei bemachshova, sei bdibur, sei bemayso, what the Rebbe built, he begins to question the propaganda that was injected in him like mothers milk meyoim hivoldo.
May I make a few factual remarks about the Skulener rebbe father and son..
Firstly the rebbe was NOT of Rebbische stock. The old Skulener was the RAV not rebbe of Skulen . He together with some men who would later on become chashuvim (the Ribnitzer rebbe , and the legendary Reb MOshe Gabbe of New Skver) were Chassidm of Rav Avrohom Matisyahu Friedman the rebbe of Stefaneshti a grandson of the Rizhiner.He passed away in the mid 1930's leaving no successor as rebbe.
Next the Skulener rebbe was not a Hungarian rav. Skulen is in EASTERN Rumania part of M oldavia bordering on Bukowina. the Yiddishkait there resembled Ukranian Judaism not Hungarian. The Skulener had no Messorah of Kaanoiuth , rather as a Rizhiner Chasid he had a great deal of respect for Chaside chabad and their leaders.
This last point helps explain his closeness to Chabad and the Lubavitcher rebbe.
Of course over the years Skulen too has become infected by the Hungarian "virus" and by the Rebbische lifestyle and politics. Although people tell me the Rebbe shlit'a is a gor erlicher Yid.
Kurenitzer
concise and to the point, as always. גוט געזאגט
What is it about these Rebbes that they feel inferior to the Hungarians and need to "become" one of them?
Which one was it, the father or the son, that the Rebbe got out of Romanian Prison?
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