Wednesday, February 20, 2008
How to alienate more Frum Jews
(Thank You J.L.)
It's been a long time since I've felt so passionately about an issue. I don't go to concerts, neither does my family. I've been to one in my life, The Helfg-tt concert in Lincoln Center. I don't plan on attending the Lipa Schmeltzer concert "The Big Event" at MSG next month, but I think what's happening here - the Issur issued by a variety of Rabbonim - is a terrible waste of time and money, and will ultimately come back to bite them where it counts. I don't think most of them know what goes on at these concerts and were probably fed a pack of lies by the so-called Askooonim, but that's beside the point. THE KOL KOREH WAS AN OLD, RECYCLED ONE FROM LAST YEAR, WHEN THEY WENT AFTER FRIED AND MBD IN ISRAEL!!! (read the line that begins הוא עצת היצר, and read the next line.) Lipa is fair game - he can attacked and banned - because he highlights what's so wrong with frum/charedi/Hungarian society; that you can walk the walk, talk the talk, and be so full of crap that you couldn't drag yourself five feet because of the heavy load you'd be shlepping along. That's why he speaks to so many young people today,, and that's why the Alte Zetzers hate him so. He's no different than a Yankel Miller, he just does his thing with a little more pizazz. What this Issur does for middle of the road people is tell them that all Rabbonim want to do is keep them from doing anything joyful. The concert is no different than The Ohel or HASC concert, it just doesn't have down syndrome kids singing like those do.
The concert is separate seating, the Ohel and HASC are not. The concert is to benefit a Tzedokoh that "Oysshtuffiers" Chasanim and Kallohs in Eretz Yisroel, - Simchat Tzion - although it's not very prominent in the ads, they should've put it front and center. Most people I spoke to think that there's no Tzvek behind it, and it's only for the sake of Letzonus and Lipa's pocket. Nothing can be further from the truth. The only difference is that this concert doesn't have the fat cats who write the checks to Ohel and HASC making sure that nobody gets in their way. Are we that flimsy with our Yiddishkeit that a silly concert will destroy everything we taught our kids? The whole Puretz family (the ones that run Simchat Tzion) is a frum, fine Yeshivisher family of tremendous Chesed, and this is what they get in return, a hatchet job of monumental proportions. I know for a fact that nobody - none of the arrangers, organizers, performers etc. - were approached about the concert. They just went and put this together and are trying to destroy the man and the cause. I imagine tomorrow all hell will break loose. The organizers will walk to shul in the morning - or to the pre-davening Daf Shiur - and will have a full-fledged freak attack.
First they'll approach some of the Rabbonim that supposedly signed and will demand to know why they did this without ever speaking to them and finding out what the concert is all about. The Rabbonim will probably say that they never signed the Kol Koreh, or signed under duress, and they won't be lying if they say that. Most of them were fed a great big pack of lies. What we have here is a full-blown case of Askonim out of control; people with zero Da'as, forget about Da'as Torah. These are people who don't fargin anybody any bit of enjoyment simply because they were never allowed to enjoy themselves. I say that because I know at least one of them, and his old man is a tough son-of-a-gun who would throw his own kids away if they stepped outta line, and I don't mean Chilul Shabbos. No good can come from people like this, and this not a case of good intentions either, their intentions are anything but good. The KK speaks to nobody. Most people that would listen to such Kol Korehs would never attend in the first place, Issur or no Issur. Those that wanna go will go anyway; they won't believe the KK or won't care. The only thing that may happen is that either the organizers will get cold feet and will back out, in which case the Tzedokoh loses and subsequently the Yesomim Chasanim and Kallohs. Or, the concert will go on B'Yeser S'eys, and the only ones with egg on their faces will be those that signed, whether or not they were under duress. And please; spare me the מאי אהני ליה רבנן speech, this is an attack against the Askonim, not the Rabbonim.
When I mentioned this to a very well-rounded intelligent man, and that I thought this will only further alienate the already alienated youth of today, I was surprised at his response. He believes that the Charedi approach to preserving Yiddishkeit is basically "survival of the fittest." We need to do what we need to do, and if some fall by the waysides, if many fall away, if most fall away, none of that matters - as long as the few remain with which to rebuild. He seems to think that even while 70,80,90 percent of Jews were going off the derech that no attempt was made to bring them back or to keep them because the Rabbonim didn't care, and BeShittoh they didn't. As long as they had their small enclaves the rest could all go to Alle Ruchos. Today they invoke the same logic when it comes to senseless banning etc. All they want is that their small, little pristine enclaves stay pure and holy, untouched by alien influence. The fact that many of their own fall away doesn't really bother them (unless it's one of their own close relations, and then again, maybe not even then) as long as they have their little groups to continue with. The fact that those who till now would seek such forms of Kosher entertainment will now say "the heck with all that, it's all Treyf anyway" doesn't rally bother them. If they fall by the wayside it's all part of the plan anyway, so why bother to save them... What can I say? I need to start my day now so I'll sign off, but that's how I feel, Kol Koreh or not. VeIm Shogisi Hashem HaTov YeChaper Ba'adi.
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This is one of the rare moments when we agree.
It must be 'yom tov in der vochen'!
(though you went on and on 'bout it...., but then again brevity is not a Lubab trait)
That's not what survival of the fittest means - unsurprisingly.
1) Are my wife and daughters still allowed to attend Bais Yaakov plays?
2) Where does Reb Shmuel come to this crowd?
This seems to be a forgery where indeed the old kol korei was rehashed and signatures perhaps added and amended along with the nonsense that only Lipa is now performing.
This is either the work of kanuim or a misguided Lipa fan who thinks that a cherem will get MORE people to attend.
I would give the rabbonim a lot more credit then I would you when it comes to purity of intentions.
Machlokes Rabbi Yehuda and Bar Kapara?
do u think that the Rabbonim r stupid that they don't know what they r doing?
Do u think that Lipa and the other guys did not know that this was going to happen?
I think you make an excellent point about how Lipa is representative of a lot of the way yidding practice their Judaism nowadays. I am also confused as to why gedolim chose this one. Are they saying that since Lipa is the bad guy, there should not be concerts featuring his antics? Is that how its different from HASC. The distinction is unclear to me, as MBD is probably not frummer than he is, and not less entertaining, either. I don't understand the value of going to such concerts, and I don't like the crowd. But they are Jews. They are doing something relatively healthy. Why ban EVERYHING?!?! IT just does not work for everyoner.
Let me get this straight.
for the 100th time, a bunch of power hungry morons decide to ban something, but since no one would ever listen to them they have to go to DOZENS of esteemed rabbis and get them to sign on - on paper - to be distributed to the masses, thus opening up the rabbis for all critics, once again. Once again all the "good folks" come out and say, "Don't blame the rabbis, they were misled by the morons!!"
How often are they going to be misled? Only 2 choices here:
1) The rabbis are really doing the banning or;
2) The esteemed learnered rabbis aren't smart enough to not let themselves be taken advantage of for the 100th time.
Take your choice but I wouldn't want to be led by either 1 or 2.
Maybe there is something we don't know about Lipa.
Something we dont know about "Lipa"??
You are confusing him with the "other" Lipa!
AKA: Lipa Marguliouuus (notorious child-molester protector)
the hamodia printed this letter today!
i guess the gerrer rebbe told them to to it.
No, and I did not mean UOJ, a notortious michalel shabbos b'rabim who married a "giyores."
1) Gertner did NOT pull out.
2) Every indication is that this is a total forgery done by someone who is out to get Lipa for some reason.
I hope at least one of the rabbonim knows about it and can publish a letter saying he never signed this and that it is a forgery.
Lipa puts on a great show. He is very sincere and has a lot of ahavos Yisroel. He has a policy of only performing if there is a mechitza. Aren't there more important issues that these rabbonim should be spending there time on?
Lipa Margulies signs a letter banning concerts. I get it. Molesting the communities children in Yeshiva Torah Temimah is ok, enjoying music is forbidden.
This letter says it all. The "great rabbis" join with Lipa Margulies to condemn innocent pastimes but won't utter a peep in protest against the destruction of innocent children by their buddy Lipa Margulies.
to add to SaygecAroszBaczi:
And I would think they know that "mutav sheyiheyu shoigegin..."
Good move Tzig, going bananas about a fake ban.
So just to sum up:
Lipa Margulies facilitates child-abuse.
Yisroel Belsky covers for him, and makes sure the victims can never get a din-torah (this is just before he covers for a restaurant suspected of being 'maachil treifos' without bothering to investigate, and then lying about it.
For additional cover, a bunch of alternately senile, wicked, fake, or innocent-but-just-gullible names are added, and voila!!
"V'im rebbi atto, shelo yirbu kamocha be'yisroel..."
DovBear links to you, and your stats go crazy
The pashkevil is true, it's no fake, believe me. Shea Mendlowitz would never do that, he's not a 5th grader.
And a bunch of irreligious people believe all the nonsense they read from an unsuccessful, twice divorced lunatic who is mechallel shabbos!!!
I got to agree with you on this one. As the late Rabbi Titelbaum of Veinn said ' If everything is treif, then everything is kosher'.
Did Reb Dovid Fiensteen really sign?
I would like to know how many people in E. Broadway are visiting the movies.
Interview with the stores selling the tickets!
Kolko's criminal trial which begins in March should be interesting. Word is Lipa Margulies got several Torah Temimah rabbeim to volunteer to perjure themselves for Kolko. Maybe the'll set up a Torah Temimah wing in Rikers for Kolko and his perjurious buddies. They can call it "Yam HaMenuvulim."
Lipa Margulies signed???
It says "here and in America" - it's an obvious fraud!
ליפא האט דא געכאפט זיין טויט-קלאפ, ער איז צעווילדעוועט ווי א צאפ און האט זיך ענדליך געעפענט די אויגן און זעהט זיך שטיין טיף אין די בלאטע. כלל ישראל איז נישט קיין שטח הפקר און מיר וועלן פייטן מיט ציין און נעגל ביז ער וועט ווערן א טייל פון די אמאליגע היסטאריע
Your compare and contrast of the Ohel/HASC events and The Big Event overlooks a fundamental distinction, which I believe is material to your discussion.
With Ohel/HASC, the starting point is chesed. They each have organizations that have a tremendous impact on those that unfortunately need their services. In order to accomplish their chesed goals, they need un-g-dly sums of money. They employ multiple strategies to raise such money. They have annual dinners (in the case of Ohel), they lobby for government funds, etc. One of their fundraising tools is a concert. Again to recap, the starting point was needing funds to perpetuate the Chassidim that they do, and to assist in raising such funds, they make a concert.
In contrast, The Big Event is first, and foremost, a concert. The goals of the producers/performers was/is to make money for themselves. Unfortunately for them, Halacha and, apparently more importantly, public opinion, does not tolerate a concert whose sole goal is to party and make money for the promoters. They therefore found a (in my opinion unsophisticated, but wonderful) Tzedakah, who would be amenable to act as their straw; to, in effect, kasher the concert for them.
Put otherwise, a concert "stam in mitten der voch" is not a Yiddeshe concept. When the sole goal of that concert is to raise money for tzedakah, then the concert takes on a different feel (i.e., they do not have promo clips of 25 chassidim running around mid-town Manhattan) and is Halachicly permitted. See Gemera in First Perek of Kesubas and related Tshuvas Igros Moishe
The Tzig is so 'freem' he won't write out Chazan Helfgotts full name! He has to write it like this Helfg-tt.Wow.Aza tzadikel iz der bucher!
The distinction is clear, but is that reason enough to asser it?
I'm not sure why they added Margolis' name; it may have done more harm than good. After all, he's not a Rov or Rosh Yeshiva. That's Agav.
But let's not make this about Margolis and Kolko, please.
From what I hear other singers and performers are shaking in their boots. They're afraid the Askonim will come for them next.
A strategic move would be for a performer to get a few Chabad Rabonim to ban his concert, the “Gedolim” would not only allow it, but would required you to make a L’shame Yichud before going.
Kolko sold his house in Flatbush and moved to Lakewood. He’s davening in Rabbi Gissinger’s shul.
Has Rabbi Matisyahu Salomon taken his “finger slipping” to the next level?
First Lipa Margulies is allowed to open a branch of Torah Temimah in Lakewood. Then Yaakov Applegrad moves to Lakewood and now Torah Temimah’s star rebbe/principal/pedophile follows and moves to Lakewood.
I sense a pattern here.
You two faced piece of dreque!
You supposedly do not want this to be about Kolko and Margulies, but allow comments accusing the R'Matisyohu Salamon to???
Yo, man, what goes around comes around.
And....your rebbe must be proud.
If Kolko and Margulies are too stupid to stay out of the lime light, thet deserve all they get.
Rabbi Matisyahu Salomon should be running Applegrad, Margulies and Kolko out of Lakewood instead of sitting quietly and allowing their taruvos into Lakewood. Are the future korbonos of this trinity also going to be considered considered "finger slipped"?
I also allow comments calling me dreque and such. That's shows my objectivity.
whats the true storywith the concert; does anyone know?
lets say that the tickets were not selling so hot and they would rather
say the rabanim canceled the show than the big event coming about with a lot of empty seats.
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