"One morning Rav Hutner took several of his talmidim from Chaim Berlin in his car (with his driver) for a ride to Prospect Park (Brooklyn) on a crisp October day. They got out of the car and walked to the pond in the middle of the park. Rav Hutner instructed the group of 3 bochurim to look at the lake and pointed out that you could see the bottom of the pond. "This mind of the Chazon Ish is as clear as this lake", Rav Hutner said. Then they returned to Chaim Berlin."
(From Modern Uberdox)
Ich Vil Farshteyn, nothing more. I'd like to understand how the other side thinks, what they see as greateness. I know what they don't see.
I asked an intelligent, unbiased friend of mine what the point of his taking these Bochurim there was. He says that if the point was to define the greatness of the Chazon Ish, and to get the Bochurim to understand what he means, then he did succeed, although he could've done the same with a cup of good ol' fashioned NYC tap water. I don't buy that. There was some sort of gimmick here, some round-about way of showing them HIS "greatness" I'm just not sure what it may have been. S'Iz nit Mashma that there was some sort of issue the boys had with the greatness of the CI. I just don't understand why RIH saw the need to do it, and what the great Gadlus is in the story. Why is this a story of a Tzaddik that you recount at his Yohrtzeit? I'm sure of our great ideaologue readers can enlighten me and all of us.
62 comments:
You are a shmuck. To me mevaze a Talmid Chochom, Yirei Shmayim, and unquestionable Tzaddik (something acknowledged of Hagaon Rav Yitzchok Hutner by all of Judaism--Chassidic, Litvish, Sephardic, etc.) by saying "you don't buy that" and he tried to show his greatness with some "gimmick". (And poorly trying to cover your tuches that merely "Ich Vil Farshteyn".)
and you are an acknowledged baal machlokes. Calling other Yidden "the other side". You are attempting to split Yidden and create a Chillul Hashem.
Yecheskel
Maybe try and answer the question posed here instead of lecturing to Hirshel?
Do I have answers for everything? Especially answering a Talmid Chochom's activities? Who am I to answer?
What I do know is that being mevaze a Talmid Chochom is a crime against humanity.
Maybe he just saw that they needed an outing so he took them for a ride, to take in some air and scenery, and the lake thing was only part of it. Then, once they got back, they could concentrate better on learning. To properly understand, one must know more details, not just a little piece of the picture.
Its a nice story, why read so deeply into it Hirshel?
I have to agree that you're reading something intot the story that just isn't there. However, I think the storyteller may be leaving out critical details that change the overall effect.
Besides, I like this one better:
As yeshiva was let out late one afternoon several boys were standing in front of Chaim Berlin as the Rosh Yeshiva and his wife left the building and walked toward their car (which was waiting for them). One boy opened up the front door of the car for Rav Hutner and then opend up the be back door for the Rebbitzen. Rav Hutner looked at the the young man, tapped his cane on the ground (for effect) and said, in perfect Oxford English, "What, prey tell, do you think you are doing?"
The boy replied, "I just wanted to open the car door for the Rosh Yeshiva."
Rav Hutner then said, "What makes you think that I don't want to sit with my wife? Remember this: No one or nothing ever comes between a husband and a wife".
Some of our contemporary "ehrliche" brethren can use a refresher on this point. His whimsical humor gets it across than any mussar shmooz ever could.
Hirshel, what kind of adhesive do you wear that such spitefull ,bitter and full of rage humans, stick to you? You try to debate a innocent subject and certain people go bunkers.
Anonytuches,
Had any snag asked the same question about the any of the Lubab, would you say the same,eh?
So I have a question:The previous Rebbe wrote a very nasty letter about people who shave their beards:Now the question:He took a son-in-law without a beard??Not an iluy from the Mir 'on a bord' a relative of his who went on to study at a small technical college in Paris together with his brother in law, later to become Rebbe.So:Lubavitch had a good yeshiva in Otvock near Warsaw, made up almost exclusively of real chasidishe bochrim from Polish chasidesin, could he not have found an eidim there with a beard, a talmid chochom???Any Lubab have an answer without cussing?
I guarantee that the Tzig censors this question
Thanks for reading the post. I thought that it was a neat educational tool. Somethings are best learned outside the classroom. Gut Shabbos!
Nu, pj, who says he "took" him for an eidim? What was he supposed to do, if that's whom his daughter wanted to marry? She was an adult, and could marry anyone she liked. At least he was an erlicher yid a shomer mitzvos, and he had his brother-in-law to influence him and keep him on the straight and narrow. She could have done a lot worse. Could have been a misnaged.
PJ I'd have you think twice before writing against kedoshim Hy"d who were killed in Treblinka.
As to the answer, Millhouse puts it very well.
(U'kpisgam hayedua, unzere ziboris zaynen beser fun zerere idis)
It's guys like PJ here that take the guilt out of what I do.
mottel, not everything that comes to mind needs to be expressed, vda'l.
Nu, az vos zol ich yetzt ton?
It's Mamesh ah Mechaye to see such Brillyanten of Teyreh come out of the Torah'dige Moyl of Yeshiva World. Shteig Avek!
Y.W. Editor,
I always thought you were a mentch and enjoyed your blog, I see I was dead wrong.
You think you are funny? Before anything let me tell you I hold the majority of the Gedolim you feature on your blog in the highest regard.
What the hell is wrong with you? Where do you get off talking this way? You have a problem with Tzig you should personally take it out with him. What do you do instead? You attack the Lubavitcher and Satmar Rebbeim, two giants you don’t even begin to come close to. If you have any shred of decency in you, you will apologize for the ghastly and appalling comment.
SICK! SICK! SICK!
yw editor you truly are a moron
Hirshel why do you allow this type of crud to taint your blog?
crud is good for business
When you come close to the kedusha and pikchis of a hir on a pimple on Reb Hutners small toe-nail then you can question him.
How dare you?
People, this just goes to show what a sinful anti-semite tzig is.
If this story was with the Rebbe MHM you would curse anyone out for having the chutzpah to question why he would do somthing like this story.
rabbi hutner had pimples on his toenails? yuk.
yw editor
you have one sick and twisted mind
seek help quick
YW we will back you up.
This Rasha always attacks Gedolim.
Shame on this blog. Anyone who curses out YW is a moron.
I find it interesting that most of the putzim call come out as "Anonymous"
cant you brain-doctors come up with a screenname so we know which drek is which?
Hey Just A Guy?
Stop LYING.
This Kofer Bi'ikur Mushchis curses out people on a daily basis and I never see you opening your mouth in protest.
Cut it out......
Start being Mocheh against this Menuval.
And yes, I hold that Santa is bigger then the Rebbe MHM.
do tushuva
you have crossed all boundries
And yes, I hold that Santa is bigger then the Rebbe MHM.
You are the lowest form of excrement there is on this globe. Hirshel, wipe this crap off your shoe and be done with him.
yw editor that is
i a agree with just a guy
yw is a forger and a fraud who set up a phony link to his cruddy siyte for people looking for a competitor who was mysteriously hacked.
''PJ I'd have you think twice before writing against kedoshim Hy"d who were killed in Treblinka.
As to the answer, Millhouse puts it very well.
(U'kpisgam hayedua, unzere ziboris zaynen beser fun zerere idis) ''
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Mottel let's go step by step:I''ll make it easy for you:I did not write against anybody killed in Treblinka, WHAT I SAID WAS:To write letters about how terrible someone that shaves is and that his shechita is non kosher,( referring btw, to someone from a Lubavitch backround who shaves)and than have such an eidim is way more than strange.I don't see the avlah of shaving so I was not speaking against anybody (ulepeleh, that you nevver have anything to say againt The Tzig who attacks and insinuated against big people, that is ,ok?)
About your 'pisgam hayodua':I would rate that 'pisgam' as one of the chief reasons I have a problem with Lubavitch and baal hapisgam.In plain words:It is the height of hubris to say and think of yourself as being so much better than others.Gayvah.Feh
PJ . . . for pshat of the pisgam, go ask a mashpia.
Tzig has problems. He looks for fights. Would I do so myself? No. But he also does bring out a certain point.
He wants to irk you . . . if you guys wouldn't spew venom, I doubt he would either.
I have a different issue with yw - I often find content, either pictures or articles, that he posts that were first sourced on other sites. Yet he gives them absolutely no credit.
Um, people?
where's the "venom" in this post? I asked a question based on what I read elsewhere, if that's so venomous stop posting stupid "gedolim" stories.
Mottel
I don't need to ask one of your mashpiim for pshat in that silly, gayvedik 'pisgam'.I know what was meant and that, as I said, is one of the chief reasons Lubavitch is mechutz lamachaneh,
Tzig
I can go through your kfar chabad or other Lubab trash and find many more silly bubbeh mayses about your leaders.I'm smart enough to realize that if the story sounds dumb it's probably not true.
Now to a question:Your hate, ridicule, bizui talmidei chachomim, NOT in this post, but in many others:A result of your learning 'chassidus'?I hope the answer is that you don't learn chassidus, if you do, and know that the basis for chassidus is going 'lifnim meshuras hadin' the extra step AND since you never even show a tendency to judge favourably, something in Lubabland is very, very wrong
Mottel
I noticed you side swept my question:Is it pasig for a person to take an eidim on a bord when they preach that it's a terrible issur?
He didn't take him. Which part of that sentence don't you understand?
About the Rav Hutner story, I would hazard a guess that the story originally was simply that he took them for some fresh air, or a shpatzir, or possibly even that he asked them to drive him, and while there mentioned this vort, which in and of itself is a fine vort.
Maybe someone was offended by the thought of Rav Hutner simply going for a shpatzir, edited the story, and ended up with what seems like a waste of time on the part of Rav Hutner in order to make this point.
The issue is with those telling this story in an inane way, not with Rav Hutner at all. Go snag yourself.
Hmmm
'He did not take him' nu,nu.He was only the son of a first cousin.Whatever.What I see from the mayseh is that apparently, the haskolah was not far from the Lubab vda'l, if it was a the same story with a snag rov , the Lubab would be full of themselves.Go get shikker you dumb apologist.While you are at it, tell the Lubab not to write letters about how 'terrible' something is and than.....
Interesting that when Shimmy Deutsch writes about how angry the Previous Rebbe was that his prized son in law had decided to study in Berlin in University and because of that witheld certain items from him, The Lubab are all up in arms.Can't be.Right.Leibel went and came out a mechalel shabbos as did so many others, still it can't be.Nu, nu.Go get shikker,kool aid apologist
Actually,I think I misspoke,I believe he was a first cousin.Don't remember, now
The audacity of these snags is comical, really. They have the gall to speak of Haskoloh inroads when the vast majority of Yahadus Lita was Mechalel Shabbos before WWII, including many, many "B'nei Teyreh" the few Frum Yeshiva Bochurim notwithstanding. That Kool Aid you speak of must taste better in the Snag institute of higher learning you attended.
Tzig:The vast majority of yahadus Lita was NOT mechalel shabbos.Comical is when you say that that included 'bnay tayreh', right.
But let us speak facts, now:How many Frum Schneersohs do you know?Horentsteins.......eh....Bok.The only kehilla that did relatively well was the Hungarian communities.
it's comical that morons like "anonymous" continue to believe in what their snag/Hungarian Roshei Yeshiva force-fed them.
They have no idea that hundreds of families left Russia after WWII, all Ye'reim U'Shleymim, who lived B'Mesiras Nefesh for 25 years while the Snags upped and left.
They also think that since some of today's famous Lubavitchers are Gevorener means that all are. I guess the Schustals, the Ungarishers, the Schmelcers, are all real Litvaks, right?
Go crawl back into your Lakewood hole, SNAG.
Why do we rewrite history just to please our current standards when we can just as well revert back to the old ones? Who says we need to take Chasidishe standards and apply them to a bunch of guys that could analyze a page of Talmud but very little as far as being G-d fearing lads.
In other words: why must snags like YW Editor believe and convince themselves that Isaac Hutner was a "Kodosh" when we all know that wasn't the case? They could just as well negate the importance of kedushah as an attribute worth striving for and just focus on the fact that he had a good head, could learn well, and looked like Al Capone during his days in Hebron/Slabodka? How about the German chicks he chased? The Toras HaNozir that he stole from a roommate in Yeshiva and published as his own?
Obviously speaking about Jews in America in 1900 and Mendel Horenstein is more Geshmak for these guys, but what's that got to do with Torah Judaism in America?We all know that the Yeshivos HaKedoshos were responsible for some of the biggest travesties ever to befall G-d's people. They were the leaders in the Zionist hierarchy, not warm guys like Shazar, but the rabid Jew-hating leftists that wanted no memory of old world Europe in the newly founded State.
Why do I mention this? because a conversation that respectfully asked readers to explain to me what the greatness in the above-mentioned story was turned awry, and for one reason: there was no answer. The story is childish, and is befitting for a rag like the Yated.
Snags, he was a first cousin which is why she knew him. There was no shidduch involved here. And guess what? Unlike the Yated, no one in Lubavitch pretends that he was anything other than what he was, or that the Rebbe's brother was anything other than what he was.
I'll wait for Purim, when we can both get shikker together. And have a smoke. Go snag yourself.
“But let us speak facts, now:How many Frum Schneersohs do you know?Horentsteins.......eh....Bok.The only kehilla that did relatively well was the Hungarian communities.”
My great-grandfather had his jaw broken in four places by a over-zealous KGB official because he was teaching a underground cheder in Belarus. His son went into hiding for over a year because he was guilty of the same crime in a different city. My great-uncle was caught running a shlacht- hoyz and had to spend a couple of years a labor camp in Siberia. While he was there his wife got exit visas for the rest of their family, he didn’t get his for another 18 years when he was finally reunited with his family. Every single one of their offspring are frummeh Yidden, shomer torah U mitzvos.
In the year that I spent in Hungary I met my share of Zoltáns, Lászlós and Ferencs who have heimisheh roots but don’t know what what the word Szombat represents. Don’t fool yourselves, the Neologs caught plenty of Orthodox in their nets and the Austro-Hungarian Empire was overflowing with haskalah, the results unfortunately very apparent in the present Hungarian Jewish community.
“But let us speak facts, now:How many Frum Schneersohs do you know?Horentsteins.......eh....Bok.The only kehilla that did relatively well was the Hungarian communities.”
My great-grandfather had his jaw broken in four places by a over-zealous KGB official because he was teaching a underground cheder in Belarus. His son went into hiding for over a year because he was guilty of the same crime in a different city. My great-uncle was caught running a shlacht- hoyz and had to spend a couple of years a labor camp in Siberia. While he was there his wife got exit visas for the rest of their family, he didn’t get his for another 18 years when he was finally reunited with his family. Every single one of their offspring are frummeh Yidden, shomer torah U mitzvos.
In the year that I spent in Hungary I met my share of Zoltáns, Lászlós and Ferencs who have heimisheh roots but don’t know what what the word Szombat represents. Don’t fool yourselves, the Neologs caught plenty of Orthodox in their nets and the Austro-Hungarian Empire was overflowing with haskalah, the results unfortunately very apparent in the present Hungarian Jewish community.
Anon, formally P J:
I told you that what Millhouse said was pshat.
Tzig:Shame on you for the garbage you write.
Interesting that you censored my post where I listed how many of the well known Lubab are gevorener, how Lubavitch had a tiny oilem if not for all their recruits.For example the whole famous Montreal Lubavitch, rabbis greenglass ,hendel,rodel etc are all Polishe boys from Otvock.How the Shochats, rabbi Marlow, rabbi heller and a large percentage of Lubavitch were 'recruited'
The 'genius' claims that we don't know that 'hundreds' of Lubavitch families left Russia after the war.Moron,I know the whole story, how they claimed Polish citizenship etc,BUT, you gave yourself away!Hundreds of families:Ok, but 'genius' Russia had millions of Jews and Chabad had claimed many thousands of families before the revolution.What happened to them???Assimilated, like everyone else.
Just a guy:I never challenged the fact that many Lubavitchers were shomrei tora bemesiras nefesh mamesh, however, the fact remains that most of Lubavitch disapeared.
Oh,I FORGOT,
Of course you censored my post about 'rabbi' shneour zalman (solomon)schechter founder of conservative Judaism, who came from Lubavitch.
I guess the truth hurts.
zalmen shechter came from far away Rumania, so he was named Schneur Z, big deal.
You fool, hundreds of families of Lubavitchers came out of Russia, all Frumme Yidden with beards. So there are Gevorener, so what? If not for Lubavitch there would be noone for them to come to?
Go through all the Snag Yeshivos, see how many are Hungarians, like The Schustals, Ungarischers, Schmelcers etc.
Comments like that get deleted because retards like yourself cannot follow a discussion and go off on tangents.
Zalman (solomon)schechter was of Lubavitch extraction ''Solomon Schechter was born in Rumania in 1847 to a Chabad Chassidic family. His Chassidic upbringing did not satisfy him, however, ''
He was born in a town that was in or close to Ukraine (maybe Czernovitz)not 'farwaway Romania').Obviously that does not feed into your 'hate'
I would love for you to explain this garbage ''We all know that the Yeshivos HaKedoshos were responsible for some of the biggest travesties ever to befall G-d's people'' Are you all consumed by your silly-little-boy-hate???
By the way:The Schustals are NOT Hungarian:Rabbi Schustal senior born on the Lower East Side is of Polish extraction,I think his dad was somewhere around Lomza, though he was partial to chasidim and so is rabbi Schustal, he married the Mattersdorfers daughter that is his Hungarian connection.
so if the Mattersdorfer was Hungarian, and Rabbi Schustal from Stamford married his daughter, then his sons, the great "LITVISHE" Gedolim are what?
I thought you could figure it out.
Zalman Schachter's dad was a Chabadnik, so what?
Esav's dad was who?
You are not for real ,are you:I feel silly even bringing this up:Generally the father sets the lineage and chinuch.Hey if we went after the mom I'd be a Chabadsker rachmon litslon.
Polak, Hungarian, does it matter? the point is they're Gevorener Litvaks, whatever that means. Oh, and don't worry about sounding silly.....
to Hirshel
You forgot to list the Rotter father & son of Sharai Aron & Mevakshei Torah journal, they are the blame for the Moron syndrome, They are original vizntzer chasidim,
Reb Chaim Mayer of Visnits got bamboozeled by hiring R'Gedalia Nadel for Maagid Shiur, He turned alot of buchirim into misnagdim, lunatics... first Nadel was a super kanoi and the end of his life his hashkofes were cutting edge heresy,But since he is one of unzere he is not condemmed.
"How about the German chicks he chased"
You really are a nutcase.
How about the Rebbe's girlfirend Mushky the pants-wearing chick?
eh?
Be a man and post this.
The Rebbe was married to Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka when they went to University. Rabbis Hutner and Soloveitchik were not. Word on the street is that they were both popular with the ladies, ahem ahem, but that may just be rumors, you know.
"How about the Rebbe's girlfirend Mushky the pants-wearing chick?"
HUH????
Apparently it's OK for guys that threaten me with hacking to say whatever they like about anybody they wish. It's only I that has to make sure I don't "offend" anybody.
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