Sunday, January 14, 2007

All Yidden are Shayech to Nesi Doreinu


One of the pet peeves of the non-Lubavitcher community is that Lubavitchers somehow feel that there are 2 groups of Yidden: Lubavitchers, and those who are "not yet Lubavitchers." This sense of entitlement or prestige (maybe there's a better term for it) ticks off most "Fremde" because it tells them that their heritage is looked down upon and that Lubavitchers think they should change it. Obviously that's an exxaggeration, nobody expects all Yidden to begin learning Chassidus, although that may be the ultimate goal. Yet here's something that may get your goat a just a bit. There may be some truth to that notion after all.

A blogger friend of mine showed me that in the Farbrengen of Shavuos 5713 the Rebbe spoke about the idea that the Choson should Chazzer a Maamar Chassidus at his Kabolas Ponim just like the FR did at the Rebbe's wedding, and since we follow in his ways we too should Chazzer a Maamer. He mentioned the fact that the Maamar that the previous Rebbe said at the Rebbe's Chasuna - beginnning with Lecho Dodi - is an appropriate choice since it mentions all the names of the Rabbeyim and it was said as an "invitation" to the Neshomos of the Rabbeyim. (Since Tzaddikim place themselves into their Torah, reciting their Torah works as an invitation to the authors of that Torah.) Although there may be others that fit that criteria what better choice is there than to say the same Maamar that the Frierdige Rebbe said. The Rebbe went on to say that this applies to all weddings, that all weddings "Zol men Chazzeren di Maamer Lecho Dodi" not just to those of Lubavitcher Talmidim, since it's an inyan that concerns all Jews. The Rebbe went on to say that if there are "Oylimishe Yidden" here he hopes that they won't be Makpid on what he's about to say, but even if they will he still needs to say it "like it is."

כל בני ישראל, יהיו מי שיהיו, המשכת חיותם היא ע"י הנשיאים,כמבואר בתניא ש"יניקת וחיות נפש רוח ונשמה של עמי הארץ הוא מנפש רוח ונשמה של הצדיקים והחכמים ראשי בני ישראל שבדורם", כשם ש"יניקת הצפרנים וחיותם נמשכת מהמוח שבראש", ועד שאפילו אלה שמנגדים כו', מקבלים גם הם חיותם ע"י הנשיאים. – האמת היא שגם אלה שמנגדים כו', הנה התנגדותם גופא מוכיחה שבאמת אוחזים הם מהרביים, כי, אילו לא היו אוחזים מהם, לא היו מנגדים אליהם, אלא כיון שגם הם אוחזים מהרביים, וחוששים שמא יתקרבו על ידם לתורה ולחסידות כו' – ודבר זה הוא בניגוד לרצונם – לכן הם מנגדים כו', אבל בפנימיות לבבם אוחזים גם הם מהרביים. ובפרט ע"פ הידוע שאדמו"ר הזקן רצה שתורת החסידות תהי' שייכת לא רק לאיזה מפלגה כו', אלא לכלל ישראל,– פעם הציע לי מישהו להוציא לאור ענין חדש שיהי' מתאים עבור כל בני ישראל. ועניתי לו – בפשיטות – שתורת החסידות היא עבור כל בני ישראל –וכיון שבודאי יתמלא רצונו ("ער וועט דאָך געוויס אויספירן") שסו"ס יהיו כל בני ישראל חסידים, שהרי "רצון יראיו יעשה" – הרי כל האמור לעיל שייך לכל בני ישראל.

Free translation:

All Yidden get their Chayus through the leaders of the generation, just as the fingernails get their Chayus from the Moach. Even those that may oppose him, and they oppose him only because their afraid of being drawn to Toras HaChassidus which they don't want to happen, they too "hold" of the Rabbeyim, and they too get their Chayus from the Nosi HaDor. Therefore, and since the Alter Rebbe wanted Chassidus not for a single "party" but for Klal Yisroel, then the recitation of the Maamer is something that concerns all Jews. This was discussed at a recent wedding where the father was a Lubavitcher Chossid and the Chosson was not (yet.) A Mashpiah at the wedding went on to recite the Maamer, when in attendance were some "Choshuve" Yidden who are not knows for their love to Lubavitch. When he was asked why pointed to this Sichah, saying that the Maamer is Shayech to all Jews.

See the Sichah beginning from Number 218, Courtesy of ChabadLibrary.org

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

oh boy, H, I see your back and ready to rumble...

Anonymous said...

H, how should we take that?

Anonymous said...

tzig, welcome back!
but i goto tell ya, some sichos are best left unchazered.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I see Tzibaleh is a fair weather Chossid, only when what the Rebbe says fits his preconceived notions. Nishkosheh.

Snag: you're so predictable. I could've stole your thunder and written your eventual comments in the thread, but then I'd be preventing gyou from basking in your own glow, and MiTzad Ahavas Yisroel hub ich niot gevolt, so I let you say it. But you and I know both know that you don't believe a single word you wrote.

Anonymous said...

I wish I knew what to do with these sichos.

Mitzidi, Chassidic affiliations, etc, is a personal matter - Mitzad the Rebbe, Chassidus is a communal matter. Therefore, in my (probably completly distorte) opinion, this not a sicha that I think is limayse by chassidim (- but for a Rebbe, it's another story).

Yea, yea, you'll tell me I'm a shvache chossid. You're probably right.

Anonymous said...

I dont see any Snag comments... what comments are u refering to?

Anonymous said...

I see that I posted my comments to this post by mistake to the previous thread-that's what Hershel just responded to. So ayen shom.

Hirshel, did you see the Yosed has the yohrzeit of the Alter Rebbe in the yohrzeit listings in the current issue ? Nu ?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

This was what I responded to:

snag said...
כמבואר בתניא ש"יניקת וחיות נפש רוח ונשמה של עמי הארץ הוא מנפש רוח ונשמה של הצדיקים והחכמים ראשי בני ישראל שבדורם"

Tzaddikim biloshon rabbim. Not one Rebbe in Crown Heights.

Yes, we got yenika from Moreinu Harav Schach ztvk"l and now we get it from those shlita who are mimaleh mikoimoi.

"האמת היא שגם אלה שמנגדים כו', הנה התנגדותם גופא מוכיחה שבאמת אוחזים הם מהרביים, כי, אילו לא היו אוחזים מהם, לא היו מנגדים אליהם, אלא כיון שגם הם אוחזים מהרביים, וחוששים שמא יתקרבו על ידם לתורה...כו' – ודבר זה הוא בניגוד לרצונם – לכן הם מנגדים כו', אבל בפנימיות לבבם אוחזים גם הם מהרביים

Yes, people like you Hirshel Tzig, biemes hold of the Litvaks, the Snags, that's why you are always being minaged to them, in the inside of your heart you hold of them, but you are afraid they will be mikareiv you to Litvishe derech so you oppose them.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

BPU

are you referring to Tzibaleh?

Anonymous said...

A serious question, please dont dismiss it anti Chabad.

I understand that the Rebbe used to refer to his predecessor as the Nosi Doreinu, and I also understand that things that the Rebbe used to say about his Shver have been understood by his chassidim to really be referring to himself (the Rebbe)

Therefore, if his Shver was still the Nosi, acting after his histalkus, as it were through the Rebbe, do present day chassidim still regard the Rebbe as the Nosi despite his lack of a successor? And if so, if (gevalt) moshiach does delay, how long can a dor function without an active Nosi, or at least one who is obviously present?

Please, I ask this question in sincerity, I hope it is understood that way.

Anonymous said...

The Rebbe answered this but on a different question,maybe Hirshel remembers it, about the yerushalmi that ask on the possuk in nach that Samson was king for 40 Years.

Anonymous said...

these kinds of sichos usally ended up in the הנחות as חסר קצת.

Anonymous said...

What a load...

I was at a L'chaim last recently for a young Chbad couple. It was crazy. There the boy was (from a prominent chabad family going way back) who barely put on his coupel before entering the room with his three day stubble and no hat after spending his entire life in Chabad Yeshivos. His fiance' is from an even more prominent Chabad family that traces itself all the way back to the Alter Rebbe (we won't go into her appearence...terrifying from a Chabad point of view) and what is the be all and end all is this Maammer. This guy is pushed to say a maamer which he obviously couldn't care about. The event was mixed (this was not a Kiruv function) and the older generatiopns looked on despondantly at what the future of Lubavitch is. Let's get back to basics... let's get our own houses clean and keep them clean before preaching the wonders of Chassidus to ALL other Yidden. The Maamer is not the Iker, but keeping our kids from spinning out of control is...
Less focus on the Sichos and Maamers and the wonders of Lubavitch and ALL focus on keeping ourselves simple Jews that keep kosher, shabbos and Tahars Hamishpocha.
No wonder the other yidden are infuriated when Lubavitch present themselves as the ultimate in yiddishkeit. Theyt look at our basic yiddishkeit and demand why we allow for the basic rules of our religion to be forgotten and replaced by perceived, cult like mantras...Yechi/ Maamers with no meaning to the people that read them/ posting letters to the Rebbe. THIS GENERATION HAS NO NOSI! WE ARE LOST...the faster we realise this the faster we can become what the Rebbe really wanted us to be...at the forefron t of the Yiddishe Velt

Anonymous said...

I'm one of those Jews who is not 'yet' a Lubab I don't know why you want to 'force' all Jews to accept your leaders as the ultimate and only true bearers of the Torah torch.Something is very wrong when a small minority of the yiddishe velt looks down on everybody.Sorry I cannot buy into this

Anonymous said...

Anon,

It's a gemora in Sota, and #1 the meforshim explain it differently, and #2 it wasnt that many years.

Anonymous said...

I would like to point out that this whole concept that chabad is for all yidden is based on the Lubavitcher Rebbi's interpretation that ונשמה של הצדיקים והחכמים ראשי בני ישראל שבדורם means the Lubavitcher nesim (nesim A concept that he was Magala)

it can also be interpreted to mean all gadoli yisreol

I interpret the word of the alter rebbi "ach bayodi vmacri kamina" to mean just his chasidim therefore no need for me to chazar this mamar and to invite Neshomos of the Rabbeyim i can recite one of many belzer toros built upon the the toros of all the Belzer rebbis

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Eli D

We know that, and that was a concept that the Satmar Rov was Megaleh after 7 generations, that the AR spoke only to his Chassidim, something nobody ever heard of before.

Anonymous said...

when was the Satmar rov this Megaleh how then do you explain "ach bayodi vmacri kamina"

and why does מנפש רוח ונשמה של הצדיקים והחכמים ראשי בני ישראל שבדורם mean the Lubavitcher nesim

why cant it mean Satmar Belza Viznitz Stolin Rachmistrivke Chernobyl

Anonymous said...

So, to answer Benzi's question, who is the Nosi of this Dor?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Duvid

nobody's forcing anything here, it was only a suggestion by the Rebbe.

Anonymous said...

Everybody should become a Lubavitcher?
Sounds like the Mormon Church, who baptise everybody after death.What an inferiority complex

Anonymous said...

Hirshel Tzig said...
Duvid

nobody's forcing anything here, it was only a suggestion by the Rebbe.

HT
What Duvid can not buy is
כל בני ישראל, יהיו מי שיהיו, המשכת חיותם היא ע"י הנשיאים

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Eli D

nobody's forcing Duvid to buy anything, he can take it or leave it.

Anonymous said...

מִורנו הרב שך זצוק"ל זי"ע הי' נשיא הדור לשעבר ועכשיו יבּלחט"א הגה"צ הרב אלישיב שליט"א.

Anonymous said...

I think it's in a hakdomo for a Kopust sefer where one of Kopust rabbeim writes that A"R wrote for his people and his derech expires 150 years after invention.

A separate question : now that none of chabad rebbes are alive, what keeps the train running spiritually ?

Anonymous said...

anon snag, asking everyone to learn Chasidus is like the Mormon's baptizing after death? Does that mean, R"L, that asking everyone to learn Gemara is like the Catholic church wanting you to convert or die?

Anonymous said...

If i remember correctly what it that there is it on the whole derch habashemtov the satmar rov claimed that it was forgotten He does not claim that it was only for XX years

my point is that even the AR in his generation was only writing for his Chasidim

Milhouse said...

Zerach: The Rebbe is ishtakach bechulhu almin yatir mibechayeihi.

Anonymous said...

in practical terms millhouse, what do you mean?
whats the matzav in CH & elsewhere? is he ishtacach Or the other meaning of ishtacach?

Anonymous said...

If the Rebbe is the Nosi, why can't Moshe Rebaynu or Dovid Hamelech or Eliyohu Hanovi be the Nosi?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Tzibaleh

Far dir past nisht Azoi tzi redden

Does it depend on what the Matzav in Crown heights is? Is G-d dependent on the 14 milion assimilated Jews? If so we're in big trouble.....

Anonymous said...

anon, through the Rebbe, yes, all of the Rebbeim, Elihoyu, Dovid Hamelech and Moshe are our Nosi.

Anonymous said...

If I understand correctly, the rebbe Reyatz said the Maamar Lecho Dodi at the rebbe's wedding.
In that case shouldn't it always be the shverr saying the maamar - not the choson?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone else feel like I do, listening to chasanim mumbling through the maamar lecho dodi, breaking their teeth, understanding zero - and the bored crowd even less. Squirming at the discomfort of many an am-haaretz chasid, vos vei fun zein chayos nisht tsu zogen.

What's the point? Who does it benefit? He'd be far better off saying Yekum Purkon or even a kapitel Tehilim

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I prepared my Maamer quite well, said it loud and clear, and broke no teeth. Was I allowed to say it at my Kabolas Ponim?

Anonymous said...

zerach ginsburg, it's indeed in the hakdomoh to "Mogen Ovois", where he writes, that the derech haBaal Shem Tov was meant only for 150 years, spanning the time of the revelation of the Besht until the death of R'Leib Kopuster.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Ya gotta love the Kopuster Chassidim here who decided that the Derech HaBaal Shem Tov lasted only 150 years. They don't seem to relize that the Kopuster himself, Reb Shlomo Zalman, didn't "close up shop" after he made that statement. He continued to Say Maamorim and fir zich al derech Chabad, so I'm not sure what he meant by that. Besides, the Rebbe Rashab said Ich Ken Ihm Tzubrechen vi a Papiros! concerning those statements.

ואם בקאפוסט עסקינן, I recommend the article about the Kopuster printed in the current issue of Heichel HaBesht. Fascinating stuff.

Anonymous said...

The Rebbe was not the only gadol hador. Maybe Lubavitchers were under the influence of R' Ahron Kotler, the Brisker Rav, or, worse, Rav Shach!

Milhouse said...

Nixon: If that's how he says it, then you're right, he might as well just read the first three pages of the phone book. A maymer is TShBP, and therefore the ikker is the havoneh, not the eisiyes. But that's not the only way to say a maymer. He can also say it in English, and leave out parts that are too difficult to explain properly in a reasonable time, and maybe people will actually listen and learn something.

yakov said...

I know, it is quite late to comment on that, but I just recently discovered this blog and enjoy it immensely.
Of course Lubavichers are under influens of Schach - you can easily see how many machloikes going on.