Monday, December 17, 2007
Chabad doesn't hold a candle -----
----- to these guys.
Follow the money trail, boys.
See, if I was Aish I'd sorta, kinda, be embarrassed of this article. After all, you don't want to answer questions like "where does all the money go?" or "why the need to charge for public viewings of films fully paid for?" But I'm probably overestimating the intelligence of the average Shmoe in Flatbush/Five Towns, those questions never get asked. Also, I'd wonder where the big Mesiras Nefesh is for a guy making three times what the average shlepper makes - $125,000 for a "Rabbi" like Henry Harris pictured here - to go learn with an executive for half an hour. Then again, they're representing Torah-true Judaism, and I'm not, so I guess they're entitled to 500 dollar suits and a 50 dollar haircut. Also the young shnook executive probably feels better learning with a well-dressed guy than with a overweight guy with a straggly beard, no?
I'm glad I'm not part of what they're selling.
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This Rabbi Harris looks like a walking shtick neveila, even if Guravitzer insists that I must love him with all fibers. But that said, the "money" thing in this setup is much better then in many cases where shlichim are forced to jump on every freier walking into the shul with an instinct to milk him to nausea, with yiddishkeyt being a byproduct. (case in point : Kiev).
These people get what they want. It's somewhat pathetic but no worse then what most do. And $125k is a bare minimum for survival in NYC.
Whew... glad to see you ragging on a Mosad other than YRCB for a change :lol:
WHOA. . .
First, why the skepticsm about Harris's credentials? Do you, one who loves shluchim, REALLY want to go there?
Second, how do you know about his salary? How long do you think it took him to get there? You think you just make 125k starting off? You think you make that much unless you can teach about any topic under the sun to highly intelligent, accomplished people?
This is not about going to Kiev and talking to dumb peasants.
AS far as the way they promote themselves or the who they go to, I urge you to look at Rabbi Butface on the Chabad Telethon.
Rabbi Butface on the telethon is at least smart enough to not schmear it in people's faces. Besides, just because there's a mess of people doing it that doesn't necessarily make it right. That's what I don't get about you people on this group. It's always "well how about what your snag Rabbi does...oh, yeah? well your lubav rabbi....... (DELETED) so - the Ungarishers do it too!" Who cares?! Assuming Butface is wrong - does that make Harris right? I, like Hershel, am glad I'm not part of what Harris is selling...and glad too that I'm not part of what Butface is selling...
the look of that guy is so not yiddish, he look so aarrogant
Why exactly is rabbi in quotations? Those without the holy smicha of Lubavitch (or consequently have the 'evil Aish smicha') are suddenly not worthy of the title?
I wouldn't exactly be pointing any 'mesirus nefesh' fingers since I'm not sure how much is involved by going off to Timbucktoo and declaring yourself 'Chief Rabbi'.
Kiruv is a business no matter who the players are. But these type of posts only highlight the sort of 'party hack' mentality that poisons the frum world. "Our group amazing->other group bad!" Since when was Judaism about taking a page from Chairman Mao?
>>Rabbi Butface on the telethon is at least smart enough to not schmear it in people's faces.
WHAT?!?!?! This is Rabbi Buttface. . . the guy behind the HUGE posters degrading the Rebbe!!! This is the guy who gets aino yehudim involved in Chabad. Aish does not shmear. On the contrary, this has been going on for 20 years and you are only hearing about it now.
>>Besides, just because there's a mess of people doing it that doesn't necessarily make it right.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Too vague.
That's what I don't get about you people on this group. It's always "well how about what your snag Rabbi does...oh, yeah? well your lubav rabbi....... (DELETED) so - the Ungarishers do it too!" Who cares?! Assuming Butface is wrong - does that make Harris right? I, like Hershel, am glad I'm not part of what Harris is selling...and glad too that I'm not part of what Butface is selling...
That's not what I said. Nor is it what Herschel said. He was taking sides, and he insulted someone he does not know in the process.
Pretty low class if you ask anyone.
"That's not what I said."
Actually it is EXACTLY what yo said, or do you no longer remember the "I urge you to look at Rabbi Butface on the Chabad Telethon" remark?
"Nor is it what Herschel said."
which is why I added "and glad too that I'm not part of what Butface is selling" i.e. this is a universal problem amongst "Rabbis" and it's always wrong no matter what "faction" he is from...but in your holy zeal to uphold Aish and put down Lubavitch you must've missed that point.
"and he insulted someone he does not know in the process. Pretty low class if you ask anyone."
I must then assume that either you are very good friends with Cunin or that you have no problems proclaiming yourself "low class".
That's the great thing about all this - you condemn Hirshel's "taking sides" but you are completely blind to the fact that you are at least as biased spiteful as he is - only going the other way...
>>which is why I added "and glad too that I'm not part of what Butface is selling" i.e. this is a universal problem amongst "Rabbis" and it's always wrong no matter what "faction" he is from...but in your holy zeal to uphold Aish and put down Lubavitch you must've missed that point.
No holy zeal for Aish here. I am just appaled at the spitefulness and hatred that Tzig has for everyone outside Chabad.
>>That's the great thing about all this - you condemn Hirshel's "taking sides" but you are completely blind to the fact that you are at least as biased spiteful as he is - only going the other way...
Completely off. I have no sides. I am just showing Tzig how off he is by demonstrating the same, if not worse, problems in Chabad.
spitefulness AND hatred? c'mon now, cut me some slack.
Chabad's problems happen unwillingly. They don't go out there LeKatchillah like a money-grubbing guy making $125k with a "price-list" for their services.
Let's translate: Problems happen in Lubavitch because we are human, just like everyone else. Problems happen in Aish because they are Reshaim Merushaim, Mashchisim, proud Baalei Gaava and Amaratzim to boot.
Exactly guravitzer--Tzig, too much hate; just look at your remark:
"Chabad's problems happen unwillingly. They don't go out there LeKatchillah like a money-grubbing guy making $125k with a "price-list" for their services."
Again, why is someone who served in kiruv his whole life "money grubbing" making a comparitively low salary given how many children he has, etc.
You're off the line here. Come on, get back in tow.
$125k is a comparatively low salary?
If you have eight kids, and live in new york? Yes. Salaries within that 125 to 175k range are the most difficult as schools seldom give substantive tuition breaks for them, as well.
Where do you live?
"Chabad's problems happen unwillingly..."
Uh...right and everyone else's problems (specifically Aish) exist because they're evil/stupid/am haaretz?
See comment above about being a party hack. Chairman Mao and the Red Guards would be proud.
. . .And this is PRECISELY what I was trying to explain, Mendel.
PS the above anomonomous and I are NOT the same people. Tzig CAN confirm this.
Tzig, it seems like "get back in tow" means "earn $200k a year". Can we PLEASE get back to that?
where do I sign?
Call (310) 208-7511 and offer to run the shop. It'll be $200k plus a nice bonus.
125 K is nothing for a family in NY
Many Chabad Shluchim spend many times this amount. It is the so called "Mesiras Nefesh". I went to many shluchim 50 k bris mila , to a 30 k Uppshernish.oh yes! I forgot,there are outreach activities
By now I am laughing myself silly. Comedians, all of you.
oh, great! So now I'm having a discussion with (at least) 2 different people and I don't even know who's who :-D Can we get some nicknames here? Anything really will do "person 1" and "person 2" would be just fine....
I have to say though...while I have no problem with a Rabbi making enough money to live on, it makes it look dirty when they put "a price tag" on kiruv.."Hey wanna be frummer - no prob, gotcher check book on ya?"
HOWEVER, it would be foolish to really believe that there aren't some of these in Lubavitch because we all know there are...BUT it would also be very ignorant to think that is the norm because Rubom Kekulom of the Shluchim are not that way at all and in fact are for the most part a fairly impoverished bunch...it's just that their weddings of baked chicken legs in the chabad house kitchen obviously doesn't command the same notice as the rarer posh ones. And I imagine that in Aish and most other frum circles the same is true - a few slimebags turn it into a lucrative business while the majority of others live in relative poverty believing that "Teireh iz der Beste Scheireh"
As usual the Tzig is accusing Aish of stuff that Lubab inc. do.
The following from vosizneias.
''London - Two Lubavitch rabbis have been ordered by the London Beth Din to stop using the Lubavitch name for outreach work and refrain from any fundraising activities for the next six months following a bitter dispute over how the organisation is run.
''Mendy and Yosef Vogel who set up The Goan Club in London's West End were accused by Lubavitch UK of "excessive expenditure" in the running of the organisation that was set up to attract young professional Jewish adults and taken to the London Beth Din for a ruling. [somthingjewish]''''
You 'HAD' to add this,right??
''I'm glad I'm not part of what they're selling.''
What are you selling??Dumb apologetics??
You mean by your post to point out that while Lubavitch is very concerned about inappropriate spending or excessive spending, to the point of going to a Din Torah to stop the activities of shluchim who do not follow the derech of Lubavitch, Aish has set targeting only major executives as their goal. I am sure that was your point.
Aish is bad,Lubab is good.
Happy now, Kool Aiders?
why charge? simply coz there are costs involved that need to be covered. Why chabad doesn't charge? coz someone else is covering the costs, who? Mr. Sami Rohr from Colombia. I know him personally. Him and his family donate millions to Chabad, which goes to salaries, maintanances of buildings and so on. At Aish the people who benefit from the organization donate to keep it going..
Regardless of how much chabad people make, they still make, no?
If the Rohr family wasn't donating who knows what Chabad would be now.. ask around what it was 20 yrs ago.
I am not chabad, not even orthodox.
to me these are different organizations that show different faces of Judaism. Neither one is better than the other, just different. I am the target market for both.. and have "benefited" from both.
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