Sunday, December 6, 2009

דער באסטאנער

Photo from BeChadrei Charedim

Maybe of you heard of him through Hanoch Teller's book, or maybe you once davened in his shul on a chol haMoed trip. Maybe you knew that they came from ארץ ישרא-ל and only got stuck here, but they were originally a very proud Yerushalmi family, not American at all. Maybe you had to nebach utilize his organization's know-how and connections because of a family member that needed care in Boston. The point is that he - the Bostoner Rebbe, Reb Levi Yitzchok ben Soroh Sosha Horowitz zt"l - was a man who was basically kulo chesed, like some of the Tzaddikim in the Old Country. He wasn't there to build chassidim for himself, he was there to teach, and if he made some chassidim on the side, then so be it. He taught with love, and never made any of his students feel any less than him. Theirs was truly an open house, one where you shared everything with the inhabitants. His love for Eretz Yisroel, his homeland, made him return there and build a community that is now the pride and joy of the English-speakers in Yerushalayim and Israel. He was a sometimes lone voice of sanity among the members of the MGT, especially when thousands of Jews were to be expelled from their homes. I dare say that in EY Bostoners were maybe looked down upon by the more "seasoned" chassidim, but the Bostoner Rebbe had nothing to be ashamed of when it came to accomplishing in his 68 of leadership. What some of us may not know is that his older brother from Boro Park, Reb Moshe, who passed away some years ago, was the one who inherited his father's position in New York. Yet despite being younger and needing to go back to Boston to build there you might say RLYH came out on top. Boston in Boro Park is down to almost nothing; only Reb Moshe's son, the Flatbush Bostoner, went and built his little kingdom there - I believe after his father's passing. Funny how those things work...

Yehi Zichro Boruch.

as a child


Isaac Balbin said...

Agree. He also had a good relationship with the Rav.

A picture can be found below

PS. Can we lose this minhag ישרא-ל ... it's ישראל

yoshe kalb said...

I had the great privilege to get to know the BR זצ''ל on several occasions.It would be futile to try to write about this tzaddik. Suffice to say that he fully lived up to the standards set by his ancestor and namesake Levi Yitzchok ben Soreh Soshe, the Berditchever. There is a picture of the BR at he kabbolas ponim for the FR upon his arrival to the States. Maybe it can be posted?
May he be a גוטער בעטער for all of us.

Anonymous said...

sorry for nitpicking but the title should be der bostoner not as you wrote

Sechvy Binah said...

lubab loves person who connected to non-religous people, wasn't admired by the Bney Teyreh (i.e, lubab hates someone who has a geshmack and brehn in lehren)and was pro soldier for soldier prayers which all of the gedolim were against cuz it is rooted in cochy v'otzem yudy. lubab doesn't understand that- can't expect the flock to be better than the shpard

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

it seems like the sechvy got the binah, you were late to that party...

Sechvy Binah said...

lubab loves person who isn't a threat

fact is that Boston bt's are more mainstreamed then the lubab bt who is limited in his exposure to others - socialy, cultraly, intelectualy, emotionaly, he is boxed in to what his handlers told him and exposed him to. Boston is very open to everything even thought they are into all the Chasidisheh stuff - they have yahrtziet seudos with stories about the niftar where no one there ever heard of the niftar (unless they remember the party from a year before)

A lubab bt is taught that all other kreyezen are a klipas nogah at best, and he is simultaneously ignorant and biased againt all non-Lubab loving Jews.

compare that to Boston which preaches love and an outsider can walk in there and be smiled at, not grunted at and viewed as an incarnation of the devil - even if the outsider is not a potential recruit.

so maybe Boston is a threat?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

so maybe your first statement was idiotic?

Sechvy Binah said...

truth is lubab has amibevelant feelings to Boston cuz Boston didn't bazoooch by RMMS. he still participated, in his own way, when the oylam hateyreh made that muchuh against the cheap shot that RMMS took against his nemesis -

(the one who didn't sleep when he has a shverer Rambam and learnt with one set of cloting way before RMMS starved himself when he was misaken and maylah Paris - against all the koychos of his the first Rebbe against Napoleon.)

Boston rebbe said that they should go full force against RMMS and he even put it in writing.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

it's sad that people like this genius here have access to a computer...

Anonymous said...

Lubab is very happy with the visits of the Yerushlimer Rov Reb Tovia Weiss(as told last week to the Choizer )by the Rebbe, eventough he is Rov for chariedem only, and they will survive the non visits of the Holy of Holiest the Bostoner Rebbe ZY"A,

Boston said...

This line amongst a very sloppily written obituary caught my eye: "He was a sometimes lone voice of sanity among the members of the MGT"

So a schnook, who hardly knows Ivreh, has the chutzpah to imply that The Moetzes Gedoley Hatora are "insane"?

Is this the respect you were taught in the Lubavitcher yeshivas you attended? I mean basic Torah they didn't teach, that we know, but very basic respect for choshuveh yidden, they also did not teach? Your point that the Rebbes great love for E.Yisroel was well known could have been made, without putting rabbonim down.Yeah, but ,I guess in Toras Emes, they never got that far, to the part where one is taught to repect other choshuveh yidden.Basically that's why a certain individual gets very little respect in many kreizen, because when you don't teach it to yours, you don't get it yourself

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

and a very "discerning" eye you have, Senor Boston.

I never learned in Toras Emes

I was basically past the age of being taught when I began to attend Lubavitcher Yeshivos

Selling 8000 souls down the road for no good reason is insanity, yes.

boston said...

"I was basically past the age of being taught when I began to attend Lubavitcher Yeshivos"

Past the age of being taught?
I thought that just being in such a "holy" environment would be enough, kind of through "osmosis dekedushah"

I guess "being" in a place where "learning" carries no import will result in a person becoming a "tipesh" by osmosis

Brookline said...

Boston just called, Hirshel

they want their village idiot back. It seems that he escaped the nuthouse and found an internet connection and started posting here...

boston said...

What was so idiotic? That I didn't like that Hirshel implied that members of The Moetzes Gedolei Hatora are insane?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

ok, say I exchange "insane" for "reason" and say that the BR was lone voice of reason, would you be ok with that? do you think it made sense to vote for the expulsion?

boston said...

I thought at the time that it made sense, but in hindsight it was a mistake.

The issue with you, and tzvishen unz geredt, you know full well, that yes, in inner Lubavitcher circles there is a terrible zilzul in every non Lubavitcher rov.Only, they are careful not to show it in public.In public they only attack "enemies".

You slipped up and showed for the world what you guys really think.I just wanted to point it out.

I also pointed out but you did not let through, why someone does not get the respect they may deserve.Mida kneged mida.

Anonymous said...

" is this the respect you were taught in the Lubavitcher yeshivas you attended? "
no you are mistaken, he got this chinuch from Nati Grossman of the Israeli Yated, how to terrorize every godal that doesn't follow the herd, Just today he woke up with Chutzpa on Rav Stienman, its basically a tirade on Rav Stienman,that he doesn't consult with him and the editorial staff before he meets anybody, I think that Kevod Hatorah you have to learn by Bnie Torah

boston said...

Let us accept for a second your biased notion about The Yated.So,according to you they are no good.I won't send to that yeshiva.
Does that make the Lubavitcher zilzul right?

(i hope it's not to difficult for you to get the point)

Anonymous said...


Im Ikesh Tispatel

and stop acting holier then the Pope, and don't sent your kids chabad neither, since they are miekel in the Kovad of Gedolim

boston said...

Anybody who has worked or lived with Lubavitcher knows that the split second that they control things, a shul, community, they become the biggest,nastiest bullies.
The reason is simple:They believe that they are the only real reps of the one above.There are no "other ways".Ay, that's what they preach when they want acceptance.That's all good till they get to the tachlis:POWER.
Want to check it out?Take a stroll around Crown Heights,Kfar Chabad etc and report back how many non Nusach Ari shuls exist there?See how many non Lubavitchers live there.
Than go to Lakewood and see how many non Ashkenaz shuls exist there, how many Sephardy and Chasidish.
Than come to conclusions about how accepting "they" (the ones who want you to accept someone as Nosi Hador, and have already decided for you...\)really are.

I wonder if he''ll let this comment thru

boston said...

I wouldn't send anybody to Chabad yeshivos for the foremost reason that they don't learn anything there.
A yeshiva first and foremost is a place to study.Once that applies it's time to analyze who that yeshiva would be good for

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


paranoia hut oichet a shiur!

There are several non-nusach Ari shuls in CH, but that's beside the point. How can you compare CH to Lkwd. Are you that daft?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I wouldn't send anybody to Chabad yeshivos for the foremost reason that they don't learn anything there.

right. uh-huh. my four sons in Chabad Yeshivos; all they learn there is about Yat Kislev and Hey Teves and that the Rebbe is Moshiach and Nosi HaDor and that snags are evil.....

and they kiss the Rebbe's picture about 24 times a day.....

anything else, Boston/Duvy/Dovy?

Anonymous said...

"A yeshiva first and foremost is a place to study"
wouldn't you count the 2nd important think, to throw orange peels on Rav Kanievsky etc...

yoshe kalb said...

Shame on all of you! Does the BR זצ''ל deserve all of this ?!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...


ALL IN THE NAME OF "דעת תורה"

Anonymous said...


why do you buy for kids Gemorahs? if all they do, is kiss the picture

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I don't buy Gemores for them, nor have they ever seen a Gemoreh in their life. I have no shas, and neither does any chabad shul in the world, all we never CHAS VESHOLEM step into another shul. All Chabad shuls have only Leekutei Suchos.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Yoshe Kalb

I don't remember ever seeing the BR at the Kabollas Ponim for the FR.

seen it all said...

This is disgusting. HT writes a simple hesped for an odom choshuv, a true manhig who helped yidden day and night in their most difficult times esp with health situations, and it deteriorats into the usual chabad vs. lakewood vs. MGT vs. yated vs. maariv vs. gush katif.
Gevalt geshriyen!!!
Can't you guys at least wait until after shiva?
Doesn't the BR deserve better?

I used to work in insurance. After a scandal erupted over the BR procuring health ins for sick people who needed major surgeries, I saw an article in an industry rag that went thru all his "misdeeds" in the scandal and ended by praising him for his selfless devotion to helping people whom he never met and no profit for him in it. This was from an industry paper and they saw his gadlus even though he was costing them money with his work. And on this Jewish website, we have to use his passing to throw cheap shots. Shame on all of us.

psol said...

Who is inheriting the Rebbistve, the son in Boston or the one in Har Nof?

Anonymous said...

"they control things, a shul, community, they become the biggest,nastiest bullies."
the history in BP will show that in BP things were different, the bullies were the other side(Sitra Achra)

evanstonjew said...

The Bostoner Rebbe was a very nice man, and very warm to all those he encoutered. Everyone who ever met him knows this.It is really terrible and vulgar that the hating and ideological infighting can't stop even for a minute, to allow those who knew him to say a good word. Is it so difficult to take a few minutes and say something nice about a fellow Jew, let alone an exceptional Jew like the Bostoner Rebbe.

Anonymous said...

hate is a disease that emerges when your immune system is weak, like the swine flu, it seems that in a time of sorrow it weakens by certain elements their system

Anonymous said...

As long as people are analyzing/over analyzing your words...I was wondering about two things you wrote:

1. You write that "RLYH came out on top." What do you mean? Was there a contest between the two brothers? I wasn't aware...please clarify.

2. You write that "the Flatbush Bostoner, went and built his little kingdom there...." What did you mean to convey using the word "kingdom" instead of say, the word "Kehila?"

yehupitz said...

The Bostoner Rebbe ZT"L was a Special Yid who had similar sentiments to the Lubavitcher Rebbe on a number of issues. I don't know if there was ever any kind of encounter or correspondence between them. So I thought that Tzig's positive appraisal was based on his noticing the similarities in approach.

I don't think there was a (CV) competition between the two brothers. I understood it as an observation that despite the fact that the older brother yarshened the official rebbisteve and "holier" location, the younger brother who went off to the nebech town on a form of "shlichus" came out as the more well-known one with a meluchas harabbonus. I saw it as no worse than mentioning the irony that in Parshas Bamidbar, Sheivet Dan had more men than Sheivet Binyamin. I've been to the Flatbush Shul and it is an impressive kingdom, using the Lubavitcher Rebbbe's words to rabbonim that "yaarich yomim al mamlachto" with a similar feel of chesed and warmth that has been Boston's "brand" for many years now.

Yes there are shpitz Lubavitchers who will dismiss all rebbes except for the One. I heard such a man on Motzoei Shabbos speak this way to a crowd that included several prominent non-Chabad rabbonim and it was embarrassing and inappropriate. But I don't think that's where Tzig was coming from, so I would cut him some slack.

My chief disappointment now is that there are so few comments on Dear Mum #6.

LikeWhatever said...

I'm with EvanstonJew on this one.
Its totally ridiculous that every word the Tzig writes is seen thru everyones personal prism of MyRightWay Inc.

It seems there are larger psychological issues at hand here. Maybe The Tzig can hire a "On Site" Psych.

Down Under said...

"All Chabad shuls have only Leekutei Suchos."

True. They have multiple sets of LS and one or two sets of unused Gemaras.

the Chabadzker yeshivas are on a very low level, they don't learn lomdus. Habad has a few good apples and every lubab is required to memorize the select few lubabs that actualy know how to learn (the list is not that long) and they get tested on that together with the enrolment number's of the Tarbut schools in the lita. If the kid gets it right, or especialy if he inflates the numbers of otd post world war one snags and number of Lubabs that enjoy learning Avi Ezry, they get a special trip to the remains of the remains of number seven.

lubab hate snags and call them by divrey zilzul. all lubabas hate snags with a passion, including the 'chozer' who is the biggest hater of them all - he has even bashed snags to their face.

Chabadzker dies for respect from Snags. Snags are useful aviful they praise Chabad, then they serve their purpose.

Brendah said...

"There are several non-nusach Ari shuls in CH"

no nusach ashkenaz shuls. last one closed a few years ago. the Lubavitchers chased them out from what was once a nice community

Sechvy Binah said...

Boston is a predominantly non chasidic neighberhood. the Rebbe of boston thrived on being on foreign teritory and bringing Jews closer. The Rebbe of the Lubavichers stayed at home and didn't go out and influence others. He only influenced those who were already self initiatied and wantted to wait online for hours to get a dollar to give to a Lubavitcher girl trying to pay her way for college. The Rebbe never went out to others. When the Rebbe was being misaken the nitzoytzes in Paris he was not able to make any bt's. The Rebbe's personality on its own was not able to influence others. He needed the trappings, that would awe the mikabel. the aura of malchus created by those who were looking at him like that, the hours of waiting. bottom line, if you would sit next to the Rebbe on the bus every day and talk to him (i.e, listen to him talk at you) you would not be impresssed. the external trappings were very important- all the dictators had the external forms of intimidation.

Help Down Under said...

Hirshel. Time is of the Essence. An "On Site" Psych is the calling of the hour.

Down Under The Sechvy's Binah there's some real conflict which is causing him to create his own "Reality" Maybe its an identity crisis or some insecurity with orthodoxy. Maybe its just the economy.

Whaever. May you find true peace within yourself to find the positive in Both chabad and all the others.

LikeWhatever said...

Under Sechvy if u go that route we can take apart Every group. Chabad has their bagage The Litte has theirs as well.

I gradde never heard R Yoil make choizek of anyone. And I'm sure if Down under wouldve listened a bit to R Yoils Shiurim and let his general message thru You wouldn't shtech either.

LikeWhatever said...

Under Sechvy if u go that route we can take apart Every group. Chabad has their bagage The Litte has theirs as well.

I gradde never heard R Yoil make choizek of anyone. And I'm sure if Down under wouldve listened a bit to R Yoils Shiurim and let his general message thru You wouldn't shtech either.

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

“There are several non-nusach Ari shuls in CH, but that's beside the point.”
But Chabad is trying to take over each and every one of them! Although a Lubavitcher was instrumental is preserving the Kolle Minyan. It is the only Askenaze Minyan in CH. They daven in a senior citezens center. He felt there should still be one Askenaz Minyan in CH!!! Of the late, most of the none Lubavitcher schuls are filled with refugees from 770 craziness.

“ How can you compare CH to Lkwd. Are you that daft?”

I assume you are recognizing the vast superiority of Lakewood. Thanks! 

Twistelton-Twistelton said...

"Who is inheriting the Rebbistve, the son in Boston or the one in Har Nof?"

What is the question, both. One in EY and one in USA

Boston said...

“ How can you compare CH to Lkwd. Are you that daft?”

Um...........Why not?

"Several non Chabad shuls in CH"??

Maybe, one or two.A Sephardy one,also.
But,Hirshaleh leyben, you know that the Eastern European shuls were set up long before Chabad became dominant,right?These shul(s) "survive" Chabad very barely, probably because someone won't give over the property deed to Lubavitch.Almost no non Lubavitcher families settle in the very "welcoming" Crown Heights.
I wonder why??

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

more idiotic comparisons that just aren't.

no point in wasting time with these people, at least not on this subject.

boston said...

About all the people "appalled" about turning this supposed tribute to the Bostoner Rebbe z"l into a slugfest.
Guys, Hirshel Tzig, wrote a sloppy, canned "tribute" to the Bostoner Rebbe, who Lubavitcher never lost any love for (and what Lubavitch loves, Hirshel loves, what Lubavitch hates i.e all you non believers,Hirshel hates too).

This hesped is similar to what you read on Lubavitch sites when they "need" to show a tribute to a non Lubavitcher:Canned air they copy from other places and an ending , vehu ho'ikor, showing how "close" the said individual was to the Lubavitcher Rebbe.So too in this case,Hirshel made sure to take a shot at the Moetzes Gedoley Hatora, implying that "only" the Bostoner there was "sane".See, the only thing Lubavitch saw in the Bostoner was his extreme right wing love for Eretz Yisroel, which made him see eye to eye with not giving back even one inch.In Lubavitch that is his claim to fame.

boston said...

"more idiotic comparisons that just aren't."

Hirshel,I can't help it.I am an idiot.Still idiots also need to see the "light".
What was wrong with comparing Lakewood to Crown Heights?

yoshe kalb said...

Tzig, just for the record. There is a picture of the BR at the FR's kabbolas ponim in "And the Angels Laughed" p. 106. If I wasn't such a batlen concerning anything technical, I'd post it myself.
I thought there was comment moderation. Please activate it and don't argue with every shmoiger.

Anonymous said...

"Please activate it and don't argue with every shmoiger."

You are the silent partner in this blog?

LikeWhatever said...

Every group does the Canned Eulogy Thing withwhoever they take issue on. Like when R Pinches Hirshprung, Reb SY Zevin or The Rav JB was niftar.
Canned eulogies abounded. And so do all the canned articles about "great chaddic courts" today.

It seems you are a true Lubavicher chassid, Boston! You somehow believe that all who claim to be Lubavitcher are takeh expected to be higher then the rest and now your "catching" them on their failings just like everyone else. You are proving they are humans after all.

Amazing Revelation!

Enjoy your Pizza with extra cheese.

seen it all said...

Get your facts about CH straight before you start your bashfest. Most "chassidishe, chareidi" ran away from CH during the late 60's early 70's. Their shuls gentrified into nusach ari shuls since the mispallelim were mostly lubavitchers who didn't run away to BP & flatbush. These shuls survival is dependent on how many anash decide to daven there. If you have a major desire to bash Chabad, there's plenty of material out there. But CH is all Chabad for good reason, and discussing it is bashing some people who ran away and let's not go there.

oldtimer said...

Does anyone have a link of the nati grossman from the israeli yated articlr abt R A L meeting with R Y Kahn?

shelo asani chareidi said...

Hirshel, your sarcasm is wasted here. Anyone who comes here to bash you for having the chutzpa to write an appreciation on a gadol b'yisrael probably won't get it.

(as an aside, you have to admit that they have a point about Lubavitch yeshivos, at least oholei torah. Maybe it's just my sample but the place seems to be an am haaretz factory.)

schneur said...

Tzig Like many men , the Bostoner rebbe was also a multi dimensional man, not so much in the intellectaul field , but in his activities and personality.
He was a amjor baal chesed , but while not building a Chassiduth like those in Metro NY, he was very concerned and adept at building his name, congregation etc. He was very involved in public relations pushing himself and his work. He published at least 5 books in Englsih bechayav no less, describing how great a person he was ? vety unusual for a rav , or rebbe. Only someone who was a nasi beamo like the Rebbe could get away with it and even a cynic like me would not protest adrebba, I wanted to know about the Rebbe . He did tremendous work for Boston Jewry, Mikve, chinuch , adult education. He was very involved in BT work especially among collge kids until the late 1970's with co ed Shabbatons etc, but then he decided to mainstream himself in the Chassidic society and concentrated on Project Rofeh and moving his "show' to Eretz Israel.In the process "hot der mazal em zugespeilt" A tremendous scandal in NY his family was involved in was kept quiet and he and his family adopted a smart policy in dealing with the issue. Then Rav Shach decided that every rebbeische eynikel should not automatically inherit a chazakah in the MGHaTorah and quit the Aguda and the Moetza and formed Degel. The Agudas MHG was left fairly slim as even the Belzer rov left, so the Bostoner was appointed.
Of course as long as he lived in the uS rabbi MS made sure to keep the American MGH real with people like Rav Moshe , Reb Yankev, the Bluzhover and the Novominsker all true gedolim. The Bostoner and his brother were members of the lesser body the presidium of the Aguda.
In Israel the Bostoner became a gutte Yid of the older dor just as no one in America understood his true yerushalmi mahus, no one in Jslm (besdies his American followers0 knew about his American rabbistve or understood how American he really was.
Two final notes, I met the Bostoner on several occassions and even had a yechidus with him. He was a fine man, knew his customers, and did tremendous work with the BT people in Boston and with the MO intellectuals , many of whom were also spiritually bankrupt. And his shul was probably bepoel the merkaz of Yiddishkayt in greater Boston.And as i said he was a baal chesed to many Jews.
But his brand of chassidus was no match for Chabad and the early shluchim in Boston "took more than a few Bostoner chassidim away as they taught these people Chabad texts and took them to Brooklyn to meet the Rebbe.
The Rebbe as far as I knew from conversations had great respect for the Bostoner and told people "when in Boston see the Bostoner" meant for newcomers, not Anash.
I also knew rav Moshe of CH and BP and he was a fine man as is his son who I cherish as a friend rabbi Yaakov Horowitz of Lawrence, NY. Yes as BP became hard line chassidic and Hungarian Chassidc at that the Bostoner brand of merican chassidus is alien there. Zecher zaddik Livrocho

LikeWhatever said...

Shelo Asani.
Did anyone ever Quantify what a "Talmid Chacham" means? Do the Litvishe yeshivos produce that? How many reach the Talmid Chochom status?
What's the General Chassidisher Yeshiva stats?

Let's first agree on one thing. Serving time in lakewood doesn't automatically make you ois Am Ha'aretz.

So does anyone have some stats to Share? Pls include the demographics like if the parents are ffb's,
If the yeshiva takes in everyone or only Metzuyonim, etc.

FYI are you around?

Once we know that we can "measure" Oholei Torahs success.

Anonymous said...

The hate to chabad of Boston and his partners in crime amazes me, they would be more happy if for instance Skwerer, Krestirer shtiblech would become churches then Nussach Hoari shuls, you are a proffesional jew hater coming out of your shell.(if they wouldnt be lazy and scared of the Zhandaren they would make a Kristalnacht of every chabad shul this is how far how their hatred is going)These people/Rabonim that left CH were spineless weasels for abandoning their own Mispalelim to the dogs, they should have been on the guilty bench, and instead these maniacs are blaming Chabad for davening in their shul with there Nussach,they should of become skwerer chassidim with boots and onion kugel, what an idiotic argument is going on here.

Simon said...

Nobody read your blog.Nobody was interested in your fight with the sectretary.Tzig gets many hits from the whole world

Anonymous said...

You are giving too much credit for Boston Jewry, I know the place well, their is noting happening there regarding real Yiddishkiet, their is a certain Kerirus their that nobody is capable to thaw,
Maybe its the Ravs fault... I don't know, let other guy figure it, but thats the fact