Thursday, January 30, 2014
?צו הייסט דאס נישט "אינטערפיעטה רילעישינס" שכבר נאסרו ע"י כל גדולי ישראל לדורותיהם
Notice that I'm asking, albeit with somewhat of a prejudice. Chabad gets attacked for bringing Rick Jacobs to the convention. Maybe rightfully so, I don't know the rules. the NYBOR is assur because they sit with Reform, and rightfully so. Chas VeSholom, I do not question that. This is an email sent out by the AIA, not some expose' by some zealot who doesn't like what happens there. I don't claim to know the "halachos" of interfaith, when yes and when not. In the FSU we see all kinds of meetings with leaders of other faiths. Is there some kind of rule book? Are laymen allowed to meet but not Rabbis? Is it OK to meet with other faiths but not with Reform & Conservative? In the Old Country they'd rather send to Christian schools than to Maskilish. Maybe this is similar? Notice there are no representatives of other "branches of Judaism" at this meeting.
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Correct. Other religions are more קל than other "denominations".
The agudah position is that there is nothing wrong with meeting with representatives of other religions for practical matters of mutual interest.
But no for matters of theology, or for "improving understanding between religions"
Not A Harry
"Correct. Other religions are more קל than other "denominations". "
Who is your source for that?
so what was the war of Rav Kotler against Rav Soloviechig of Boston?
it was never intended for mutual understanding .
Rav Y.D. Soloveichik himself, was ardently against interfaith dialogue.
Hirshel your kidding me or you are stupid?
Where do you see here Interfaith dialog?
No one attacked Jacobs, you tried to make it a story but no one cares.
Rav Yoshe Ber held you can have synagogue councils to discuss mutually important religious issues as long as you don't discuss religion itself. Rav Aharon etc. held you can't have any synagogue council type groups with them but for hatzolah matters it's okay. i.e. famous story where he tried to get Wise to help with Va'ad Hatzolah and said "I would work with the Pope himself if it could possibly help save one Jewish life."
Tzig. You are confusing a number of different issues.
The Rav and other gedolim forbade theological discussions with other religious leaders.
Technical and political cooperation was never assured (even if the Jewish participant were a Lubavitcher)Thus Rav Avigdor Miller endorsed Jewish-Christian efforts to fight Gay rights and met with reps of the Brooklyn Bishopric.
Chief rabbi Herzog visited the Vatican after the war to advocate on behalf of kidnapped Jewish children and so on and so forth. Thus non Theological meetings were never assured.
As far as Rick Jacobs throughtout the last 200 years the rabbonim took a much harder line in delaing with Nonorthodox Religious groups like Neolog than in delaing with other religions. The Erluier rav would meet ( baal korcho I admit) with the local priest but I am sure would never allow a Neolog rabbi in his house.
Thus if Torah Umessorah had a Catholic educator at a meeting it would not be that unusual as it was for technical cooperation , but if the head of the Solomon Schechter schools were there that would be a bit difficult.
its ironic that you quote from all Hungarian Rabonim the Erlauer Ruv,Baal Hishorerois Teshuva, when his grandson the current Erlauer Ruv/Rebbe said, and it was posted on this site, that his grandfather the baal hishorerois teshuva used a Neolog ruv a good orator to try to stop chilul shabos in Budapest. Maybe Hirshel can re-post it, to get all the details
The principles are very clear : theological discussions are forbidden, political and technical cooperation is not forbidden.
By the way the same is true in regards non Orthodox groups . The SCA and the NYBOR was assured because both those bodies represented synagogues and the rabbinate. However no one to my knowledge forbade an orthodox Jew from joining the board of directors of the Joint, the World Jewish Congress, and other Jewish umbrella groups thus the Aguda sits on the Council of Presidents of major Jewish organizations. Finally the Knesseth is forbidden only by Satmar and the Eda, all other streams of orthodoxy (Rav Schach, belzer Ruv, Rav Herzog, Tchebiner rav, rav Elyoshiv etc) do not forbid voting, being a member or even having "cabinet rank" the issue is recognizing Reform , Conservative , Neolog , Reconstructionist etc as a legit representation of the Jewish religion.
Nobody said the principles, it can be changed,
Yes indeed these principles of so called inter faith dialogue were put in print by Hagaon rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik the rav whose close friendship and relationship with the 7th Nasi of Chabad will be highlighted in a special conference at YU in the next few weeks.
I have yet to meet some one who challenged these principles among gedolei Yisroel.
The Rav wrote this essay in response to the activities of a number of Jewish theologians in regards the attempts of PJ of the Vatican to dialogue with Jewish rabbis. And our friend Rabbi Abraham J. Heschel accepted this offer and dialogued on theological issues . The Rav wrote his essay as a critic and response.If I knew someone out there would read it, I would give you the citation. It is an important document.
"verlooked in the debate is that in issuing a set of guidelines to Orthodoxy’s Rabbinical Council of America, titled “On Interfaith Relationships,” the Rav did not ban all Orthodox interfaith engagements. When it came to causes that were not strictly theological in nature, the Rav insisted that there was much that Orthodoxy and Christianity could accomplish together. All human beings, he believed, are charged by the Almighty to enhance the physical and moral welfare of humanity. In seeking the moral betterment of man, specific religious beliefs of Jews and Christians serve to unite rather than divide us.
The Rav stressed that the two faiths can dialogue not only on such topics as “war and peace, poverty, freedom” but also on “the threat of secularism.”
the grandson Mier claims in a article in the Forvertz that the line is very thin, even on matters of faith as fighting secularism we can go together
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