Thursday, July 30, 2015

Did Lubavitcher Chassidim save Rishel Kotler ע"ה's shidduch?!






















A young Reb Shneur in Chevroner Yeshiva. Wiki Photo.

There's a bit of legend mixed up in the facts, but the basic story is as follows. (Lubavitchers always get their facts wrong, don't they?) The late BMG'er Rebbetzin escaped to Shanghai via Kobe, Japan. (Regardless of what Wikipedia says. she didn't go Eretz Yisroel in 1940) Before the war she was already engaged to Reb Schneur, who made his way to Eretz Yisroel, studying in Chevroner Yeshiva. After the war RSK traveled to the US to be reunited with his father. Rishel was stuck in Shanghai until 1947. So said her son Aron at the levaya. So the chosson and kallah were apart for some 6-7 years. During that time Rishel contacted typhus or TB. I forget which. She of course recovered, but only after Reb Meir and his Rebbetzin nursed her back to health. She was also apparently smuggled into the US by Lubavitcher bochurim. That's how the Lubavitcher version goes. The Kotler family was still worried and thought about breaking off the shidduch, as we say in Brooklyn. The story goes that the late Shanghai'er Rov, Reb Meir Ashkenazi, grandfather of the late KfarChabad'er Rov, who was held in high regard by all who came in contact with him, was asked to intercede on Rishel's behalf. He went to the Frierdige Rebbe who sent him to the Rebbe who told him what to do. Basically, that since they wrote the Tenoyim already that they're required to keep the shidduch and they should be told as much. In the end it all worked out - and the rest is history.























Reb Aryeh Malkiel Friedman. Photo Source

The funny thing is that the Kotler family made no mention of it at the shiva. Despite the fact that R' Shragie Kotler married a granddaughter of Reb Meir Ashkenazi. They have a totally different version. I heard from people who were there at the shiva that according to the sons SHE was the one who wanted to break off the shidduch - or at least she told them that she was no longer a yachsan, since her father was a Baalbatisher Yid  and a Talmid Chochom, but he's no longer alive. Her father was, after all, a Slabodker talmid and a chaver of RAK, and she saw that as her only right, so to speak, to enter into a family such as the Kotlers. And also that she had been ill and that the doctors say that she will not be able to bear children. According to the family it was her future shver that was to have told her that since Reb Elchonon Wasserman הי"ד was the one who made the shidduch in the first place that there was nothing to worry about, and that the shidduch must go on. B'chol ofen, ווי עס זאל נאר ניט זיין, it makes for good conversation. Agav, I mentioned to a Lakewood talmid friend of mine who grew up there that based on what they say of her, how she cared poshut b'gashmius for every talmid, that the title "Mother of Klal Yisroel", which was bestowed on the very righteous Rebbetzin Kanievski by the editors at Artscroll, would be much more suited to the BMG'er Rebbetzin than to her, simply for the amount of talmidim and talmidos she came in contact with and helped out. Zol zee zayn a gutte betterin far di gantze BMG mishpoche.



71 comments:

prospect parkbench k'vetsher said...


amazing story, the problem "I have" with the late rebbe (discaimer I'm not a cusid) he was an effective leader his thoughts and actions where straight forward, therefore his actions got the right reactions. now don't get me started how single handed he turned around lubabitch from anti zionism to pro.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

not sure what that means...

dovy said...

"based on what they say of her, how she cared poshut b'gashmius for every talmid, that the title "Mother of Klal Yisroel", which was bestowed on the very righteous Rebbetzin Kanievski by the editors at Artscroll, would be much more suited to the BMG'er Rebbetzin than to her, simply for the amount of talmidim and talmidos she came in contact with and helped out."
the Taz paskens that it's permitted to exaggerate in a hesped.

prospect parkbench k'vetsher said...

no comment's

Yankel said...

You obviously know nothing about Lakewood. 'Nuff said!

אבק לשה"ר said...

"the Taz paskens" כל הרע אויב בקודש

זוהר, שהמלאכים הולכים להקשיב בעולם הזה מה אומרים הבריות על פלוני שנפטר ומביאים את הדברים לבית דין של מעלה

חפץ חיים, {ח-ט} כתוב שאסור לספר לשון הרע על מתים

Anonymous said...

I heard from R' nochom kaplan Hanal that he would bring chassidus sforim to Reb shneur and and bring new ones when he finished those, 6 weeks before he has niftar he brought him a hatamim and it sat near his bed when he passed away. Then the family asked him to take it back.

ankel snuff said...

"Nuff said!"

hey yank, is it true every litvak has a zelem in his heart?

YU alumna said...

reb aron hardly left a yeshiva, johnny come lately year 1963 of 150 (colorful yungelite) learning in a makeshift yeshivah so happened to be in a resort goast town (rent was cheap) what's the legacy? מה כל הרעש הזה

not a harry said...

who exactly from the kotler family cared what the Rayatz's opinion was on any matter?

rebcharles said...

"Lubavitch saved RRK, smuggled her in to US"

Part of the expectation of a Bar Mitzvah Bochur is Me"ma'yet in Kinder'ishe Shtusim.

HaNa"l passt for a Bochur nuch fahr di Bar Mitzvah yohren,

Narishkeiten, ruft men doss,

baba zlata said...

hershel, du reds like a baba.

dovy said...

if you are really a YU alumnus (or alumna if you are a female), why is it that you cannot spell or write a coherent sentence?

Bingo said...

YU alumna,
How many yeshivos in the USA had more than 150 post high school bachurim and yungeleit in '63?

amshinover survivor's said...

who exactly in the schneerson family cared what the kotlers opinion where, other that they let cusheve yungelite starving because they weren't from kletzk.

YU alumna said...

many more than you think, YU, satmar already had 500 buchurim only in yeshiva gedoli, nitra, bm ellion, tv, mir, etc. etc.

YU alumna said...

sorry duvyla, due to my becoming a lub BT i was, to say it simple a drop out .

YU alumna said...

reb aron hardly left a yeshiva, johnny come lately year 1963 of 150 (colorful yungelite) learning in a makeshift yeshivah so happened to be in a resort goast town (rent was cheap) what's the legacy? מה כל הרעש הזה

I would add the rest is demographics.

janash landowl said...

reb arons rightful legacy should be that he unexpectedly revived an old jewish town to a major orthodox jewish city. the hesped by SR on RAK and the opening of a satmar shul awhile afterwards, gave some of the chasidum type the ok for them to join BMG which gave a name and face to BMG of today.

janash landowl said...

"the opening of a satmar shul"

* and a cusheve rav, chasidishe bal batim, satmar food stuff, mikvah taharas, boys and girls schools al taharas hakodash, common who wouldn't move from the bedford projects to a place like this even today! regrettable now only bnei brak type , 5 town flatbush ex pats move there.

yom tov in der vochen said...

R'Shragie is married to a great grandaughter of r'mier ashenazi (not grandaughter).His eydem, who's name i forget was a kaminitzer talmid, in the Shanchai and the mir at the time.Whenthere was a pic of r'motty ashkenazi zl in lakewood onthe chabad sites some time ago, he had come to visit shragie

cold-slow-vichik said...

it seems that the kotler brand is void of legacy, re packing it as a dynasty doesn't quite work either, hype will get only that far, than what.

yom tov in der vochen said...

Heshy, it behooves to once and for all take a trip to Lakewood and get to know the place.
Lubavitchers have a jaundiced view of the Kortler family.R'Aharon was such an ilui that during the shiur he could rip someone apart, he was very sharf, but beloved by his talmidim.R'Shneour was a prince a sweetheart, soft and loving

Anonymous said...

Yair Hoffman has a different girsa

פאטשא וויינבערג said...

מי יאיר ממזרח שמש! יאיר נופמאן לא גרסינן

bingo said...

YU Almuna,
Me thinks your numbers are a bit off.
You mention Satmar Yeshiva Gedola. But I specifically said POST HIGH SCHOOL AND KOLLEL - as that is what BMG offered.
So again:
How many yeshivos in the USA had more than 150 post high school bachurim and yungeleit in '63?

YU alumna said...


proably the same as above, btw post high school yeshivas was the least necessary institute needed at the time.

אם אין גדיים אין תיישים אם אין תיישים אין צאן אם אין צאן אין רועה אם אין רועה אין עולם

lakewood'er joe said...

The polish'e shtibel on ross had 100+ litvishe learners there.

dovy said...

bingo,
if you mean full-time learners (not college boys learning in the morning) only BMG, Telshe and Ner Israel.

YU alumna said...

RAK was good in raising money plus he was in the vaad hatzolo, and according to legend he used some of that money for printing shas, etc. so he had a financial head start.

dovy said...

YU,
Your head start was when your mother dropped you on your head when you were a baby.

ObZerver said...

YU alum... Lowly hater and שקרן you are. The first ש׳ס in the Usa was printed by the goan rav yitzock meir schneider זצ״ל in 1950-1 with miserus nefish. 2 years ago there was an article about this in the english modea. Ryms was director of תורה ודעת and gave smichah to a generation of talmidim.

ObZerver said...

The previos shas was printed in montreal by ledgendary hirsh wolofsky ( see wikipedia) in 1930.

ר' נתן יוסף said...

אבי, דער אמת איז. . וויא ביטער עס זאל נישט זיין איז עס נאך אלטץ דער אמת

baby mama said...

dovy behave .

dr bill said...

OB, don't forget your next appointment .

prospect parkbench k'vetsher said...

Just like the BB gedolim, so was RAK a creation of the Aguda to counter the SR the igud harabunim crowd was to left leaning, this was probably the idea of simcha ellbergs after he reported on the establishment of the hisachdus.

shmulik from squirrel hill said...

the photo of reb shneur in chevron is that a picture you want to present to this generation how our leaders grew up. you wouldn't do it to the rebbe wouldy'ah .

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

since the picture speaks of his time as a bochur it is quite appropriate.

shmulik from squirrel hill said...

logically you're correct.

duvy said...

YU alumni and his other couple of aliases sounds like the Willy kid who became Lubavitcher, who would change aliases as often as he needed to change socks, which he probably does not do too often,who was one of the reasons this blog became impossible to read.
Get a life.Your disinformation and krumkeit makes the blog unvisitable.

hertzka moraless said...

"get a life"

untill than, come to our blog, we block these kind of people .

shmulik from squirrel hill said...

duvy, are u related to dovy from NJ

YU alumna said...

du, read your own comment 3 x than tell me to get a life, you male chauvinist.

moderator said...

duvyMonday, August 10, 2015 3:56:00 PM
ALEPH bet,
Such a bitter guy.Why?

YU alumna said...

RAK vaad hatzalah work was geared towards rescuing litvishe style lomdime to fulfill his dream, all else was kind of road kill so to. speak.

ObZerver said...

Duvy... I think YU is a BT... willy people are smarter ... I read recently the 1000 page biography of RAK by sorsky... כל רגע מסירת נפש לה׳ ועם ישראל... I cried each page ( i am polish ) that YU speaks such שקר he plays with his הולם הבה... Oyii

father sureto of hifi said...

"I think YU is a BT"

"he who is without sin should throw the first stone"

chamowitch berkowitch jacobowitch raisemorewitch CPA said...

" I cried each page"

any mention of vaad hatzolo money disbursements .

YU alumna said...


Rav Aharon Kotler gave a shiur in YU in the 1930s. Rav Aharon Soloveitchik was there and recounted the story often. Additionally, Rav Aharon encouraged Rav Schneur to attend Rav Soloveitchik’s shiurim, which he did for several months in the 40’s. even while most YU students where desecrating the shabos!

אמרו חכמים כל השונה לתלמיד שאינו הגון כאילו זורק אבן למרקוליס שנאמר כצרור במרגמה כן נותן לכסיל כבוד, אין כבוד אלא תורה שנאמר כבוד חכמים ינחלו". וכן פסקו הטור והשולחן ערוך ביורה דעה סימן רמו

rav sputnik said...

"he plays with his הולם הבה... Oyii"

RAK, was a tipical lutvishe talmud cuchem with a sense of urgency to rebuild kamanitz and kletzk in NY he surged un expectedly, and it turned out to be better than expected. that's an accomplishment to be proud off! nevertheless אליה וקוץ בה as known for those who know.

yankel said...

Ah, this is the Tzig we remember, with snarky comments and self proclaimed mevinus on any talmid chochom, gadol or general historical figure, with no responsibility for facts.
Welcome back

רב קליין said...

" 1000 page biography of RAK "

בן ערובה, השמעת ממסירת נפש של ר' עקיבא, ופפוס, מכל משמר נצור לבך

פח יקוש said...

"כל רגע מסירת נפש לה׳ ועם ישראל"

ד"ר רוזן מנהל הדשזוניט אחר כך התנצל כמה
פעמים בפני קבוצת התלמידים שביקרו אותו כי אינו אשם כי כוונת הארגון היתה לחלק לכולם בשווה ולא שיער כי הרב קוטלער משקר לו ומחלק רק למפלגתו. נמצא שהרב קוטלער גם גנב דעת ראשי הדזוינט וגזל ממונם. וגם הרב סילבר שהיה ליטאי העיד שהיו מזועזעים לכשנודע צורת החלוקה בין התלמידי חכמים שהפלו בין דם לדם לפי השתייכות פוליטית.

GQ said...

"A young Reb Shneur in Chevroner Yeshiva."

please forward all photos to my attention.

ObZerver said...

פח יקוש... Please bring sources... Because of the abundance of שקר among anon people i must ask you... My מקורות were the 1000 page new sorsky biog of RAK.

empire-kingston-crown said...

ob, you can apply for it, at the freedom of information act. http://www.foia.gov/

uncle tom said...

are you implying that sorsky is a better source than pach yukush?

pieinsky said...

is sorsky the source for the photo shoped picture of RAK (wagner) with SR ?

sir tryfoos Oxford said...

Saint Nil Sorsky, russian mystic original name Nikolay Maykov (born c. 1433—died 1508, ; feast day May 7), first Russian mystic to write about the contemplative life and to formulate a guide for spiritual self-perfection.

oh wow what a saint!

ObZerver said...

Rav chaim kanievsky made the ברכה of שחלק מחכמתו ליראו on RAK As his father the steipler told him. RCK told rav yeruchem olshin in recent visit.(mishpahca aug 19, 2015)

lakewood'er joe said...

very impressive .

משה בער said...

וקרא זה אל זה ואמר קדוש! איין אגודיסט אויפן צווייטן

פאטשא וויינבערג said...

"Rav chaim kanievsky made the ברכה of שחלק מחכמתו ליראו on RAK"

בשם ומלכות? או רק שבחא דמרא כמו ניסוח המצבה דטאש

hertz frankel said...

zerver, did ravs melzer and kanievsky, also dined in mixed seating settings periodically, did they knew that he did?

חד וחלק said...


! היינו דאמרי הקולר תלוי על צווארו

*קוטלר

617 6th St said...

Hirshel, are you ever missing a lot of context.

I think the only Lubavitch connection is that Rebbitzen Rishel's first cousin was Rebbitzen Hodakov the frierdik Rebbe's gabbai.

R' Shneur was unsure about the shidduch in 1947 but R' Aron persuaded him to keep her because he could not bear to see a yesoma who suffered so much have any more suffering.

And why do you allow the blood libel comments from anti-yeshivish Lubavitchers who keep parroting the lie about Otwocker Chabad bochurim "starving to death" thanks to R' Aron? Only one Chabad bochur died. His name was Chanowitz & he died from a plague, not hunger. The Chanowitz mishpocho themselves know the Kotlers, like the Kotlers, and vehemently deny the false propaganda.

R' Aron Kotler directed the Mir to invite the Chabad bochurim to join them in the Ohel shul but they spurned the offer.

Mrs tzig said...

At least you can confront him with the truth!

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curious bob said...

did Rishel get sustainable support from RAK vaad? if so, was she too acalibrated talmud cucham worthwhile of sustainable support.

אמנון ססון said...

חדשות לבקרים! היום קריתי בהעתונים דפה דברי ניאוץ על ר' מלכיאל כדלהלן, ולא הבנתי מה קרה אולי הלייקואדר אפשר להסבירה מה זה ועל מה זה

הגרא"י סולובייצ'יק שליט"א - התגבר כעסו על ר' מלכיאל קוטלר כאשר האחרון עשה יד אחת עם כת שערי חסד והתחבר ללא בושה לאותם אלו שמרדו בהנהגת גדולי הדור שליט"א, ולכן מרן ראש ישיבת בריסק הגרא"י סולובייצ'יק שליט"א רואה את ר' מלכיאל כאחד שאינו אחראי למעשיו ודואג להעמיד הנהגה יציבה ואחראית לישיבת לייקווד וכל בני העיירה