Ahh, the good old days, before the Rebbe was moshiach, before Shazar, when Lubavitch was still part of the Chareidi world, when Lubavitch had talmidei chachomim that were taken seriously by the velt. Ahh, היו ימים!
Alimisher I thought the Brisker Rov said that he sees the Rebbe wants to be Moshiach from the Basi Legani Mamar of 1950? I am perplexed Please be specific which talmidie chachomim were then that the world was in awe? You and Shneur are constantly on to the same nonsense
"I thought the Brisker Rov said that he sees the Rebbe wants to be Moshiach from the Basi Legani Mamar of 1950?" So we have to say that the Brisker Rov Didn't understand a Chasidesher maimer.
I'm not talking about the extreme misnagdim like R. Aaron Kotler and the Brisker Rov. I remember that Lubavitch was considered mainstream and was respected by most Orthodox Jews. The Shoproner Rov, who was a Satmerer chosid (or was it Munkatch)? had a a very high opinion of the Rebbe and even Satmers had a grudging respect due to Lubavitch's anti-Zionist reputation.
Then came Shazar's visit to 770 and kiss from the Rebbe, which came as a shock to those who thought that Lubavitch was still following the anti-Zionist shitta of the Rasha"b.
After that came the six day war, etc., etc., the abandontment of chassidus and avodah in favor of kiruv, until the Rebbe finally hinted strongly that he was Moshiach. The result was that the Chareidi world lost all respect for Lubavitch and many who would have been attracted to chasidus chabad have shunned it.
As for the the מאמר באתי לגני, I and many others had thought that the Brisker Rov was picking on Lubavitch for no good reason and didn't think that the Rebbe claimed that he was moshiach in that maamer. But in 1992, R. Yoel Kahn, the world expert in chasidus, especially the Rebbe's chasidus, said that the Rebbe already proclaimed in that maamer that he was Moshiach. That just shows that the Brisker understood chassidus better then most Ailemesher people.
An Ailmisher Kiruv, the Rebbe started day one. 6 day war nisim, there was no yid besides a few satmarer chasidim in Williamsdorf that didnt see the Yad Hashem then, look in the Yidisher Vort of that era or in the book of Reb Yide Lieb Levin (offical spokesman of Aguda and Ger)that he describes in Yiddish the Nisim, or in Reb Chaim Mayer Hagers letters from then, I admit that when it became cool to be left they put all these under the rug vs. the Rebbe that wouldnt back off ad Mesiras nefesh.
An Ailmesher Shazar, In the Uvdois Vehanhogoth of the Brisker Rov there is a story that in one of the Chitutei Shichva (Grave Desecration)episodes in Haifa that Brisker Rov was involved,he was asked how come he doesnt come out against the Rov that was involved, He answered that he cannot knock him since he is related to him. The Rebbe held the viewpoint that every Jew even Shazar is related to him on a personal level of a hug and a kiss
So we have to say that the Brisker Rov Didn't understand a Chasidesher maimer. PLease explain. He wass clearly correct. BTW I heard about the Brisker Rav's comments in a speech R' Shmuel Butman gave to shlichim where R' Butman brought a proof from the BR that the Rebbe held that he (the rebbe) was moshiach. R' Butman called R' Velvel a gaonishe yid! Sufe 770live.com for yourselves.
My understanding (admittedly a naive reading) of the Brisker ROv's comment was that he thought the late Lubavitcher Rebbe was declaring that the Frierdiker Rebbe was Moshiach. As in fact he was.
We also refer to dovid as moshiach in kedusha in shabbos musaf. The Rebbe says pretty clearly that means nishmas moshiach. Is it at least POSSIBLE this is what the Rebbe meant about the FR or even himself?
16 comments:
Ahh, the good old days, before the Rebbe was moshiach, before Shazar, when Lubavitch was still part of the Chareidi world, when Lubavitch had talmidei chachomim that were taken seriously by the velt. Ahh, היו ימים!
Right, envelopes marked "nit chabad".
The good old days.
Alimisher
I thought the Brisker Rov said that he sees the Rebbe wants to be Moshiach from the Basi Legani Mamar of 1950?
I am perplexed
Please be specific which talmidie chachomim were then that the world was in awe?
You and Shneur are constantly on to the same nonsense
long memory said...
"Right, envelopes marked "nit chabad".
The good old days."
What exactly are you referring to?
"I thought the Brisker Rov said that he sees the Rebbe wants to be Moshiach from the Basi Legani Mamar of 1950?"
So we have to say that the Brisker Rov Didn't understand a Chasidesher maimer.
I would to see some more 770 "oldies but goodies"
To Arthur -
I.E., The cash envelopes from the Vaad Hatzalah (which RAK was of the most involved) which were sent to Shanghai, were specified "nit chabad".
I'm not talking about the extreme misnagdim like R. Aaron Kotler and the Brisker Rov. I remember that Lubavitch was considered mainstream and was respected by most Orthodox Jews. The Shoproner Rov, who was a Satmerer chosid (or was it Munkatch)? had a a very high opinion of the Rebbe and even Satmers had a grudging respect due to Lubavitch's anti-Zionist reputation.
Then came Shazar's visit to 770 and kiss from the Rebbe, which came as a shock to those who thought that Lubavitch was still following the anti-Zionist shitta of the Rasha"b.
After that came the six day war, etc., etc., the abandontment of chassidus and avodah in favor of kiruv, until the Rebbe finally hinted strongly that he was Moshiach. The result was that the Chareidi world lost all respect for Lubavitch and many who would have been attracted to chasidus chabad have shunned it.
As for the the מאמר באתי לגני, I and many others had thought that the Brisker Rov was picking on Lubavitch for no good reason and didn't think that the Rebbe claimed that he was moshiach in that maamer. But in 1992, R. Yoel Kahn, the world expert in chasidus, especially the Rebbe's chasidus, said that the Rebbe already proclaimed in that maamer that he was Moshiach. That just shows that the Brisker understood chassidus better then most Ailemesher people.
An Ailmisher
Kiruv, the Rebbe started day one.
6 day war nisim, there was no yid besides a few satmarer chasidim in Williamsdorf that didnt see the Yad Hashem then, look in the Yidisher Vort of that era or in the book of Reb Yide Lieb Levin (offical spokesman of Aguda and Ger)that he describes in Yiddish the Nisim, or in Reb Chaim Mayer Hagers letters from then, I admit that when it became cool to be left they put all these under the rug vs. the Rebbe that wouldnt back off ad Mesiras nefesh.
An Ailmesher
Shazar,
In the Uvdois Vehanhogoth of the Brisker Rov there is a story that in one of the Chitutei Shichva (Grave Desecration)episodes in Haifa that Brisker Rov was involved,he was asked how come he doesnt come out against the Rov that was involved, He answered that he cannot knock him since he is related to him. The Rebbe held the viewpoint that every Jew even Shazar is related to him on a personal level of a hug and a kiss
So we have to say that the Brisker Rov Didn't understand a Chasidesher maimer. PLease explain. He wass clearly correct. BTW I heard about the Brisker Rav's comments in a speech R' Shmuel Butman gave to shlichim where R' Butman brought a proof from the BR that the Rebbe held that he (the rebbe) was moshiach. R' Butman called R' Velvel a gaonishe yid! Sufe 770live.com for yourselves.
Butman said,
Nu,Vayiftach Hashem Es Pi Haoson
>
L-R: Rav EE HaCohen Yolles, Rav Mordechai Mentlik, Rabbeinu, Rav Shmuel HaLevi Levitin, Rav MDB Rivkin, Rav Shlomo Aron Kazarnovsky, Zichronom LiVrochoh<
Who is 'Rabbeinu'?? Looks a lot like Rabbi shneerson of blessed memory though.
Rabbeinu = the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
My understanding (admittedly a naive reading) of the Brisker ROv's comment was that he thought the late Lubavitcher Rebbe was declaring that the Frierdiker Rebbe was Moshiach. As in fact he was.
We also refer to dovid as moshiach in kedusha in shabbos musaf. The Rebbe says pretty clearly that means nishmas moshiach. Is it at least POSSIBLE this is what the Rebbe meant about the FR or even himself?
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