You have your Lubavitch and your Reb Burech'l Mezhibuzher in the story quoted here. I believe Reb Burech'l was held in very high esteem in the Kalisker Cheder, the one to which Slonim traces its lineage from. The Slonimer Rebbe even mentioned the fact that "Mir zennen doh fun Reb Mendelle," that they're in the Holy Land since the times of Reb Mendelle Vitebsker/Horodoker, and Reb Avrohom Kalisker - IIRC - made the trip with them back in 5537/1777. This is what mesiras nefesh is about, going to bat for a Yid, not going to jail so that your little girl doesn't play with a Sefardi girl.... OK, OK, I'll stop. I know it was only about Torah...
is this story known in the chabad circles too?
I guess I am missing something. Isn't there thousands of Hasidic tails were a Rebbe gave a fellow bizyonet in order to save him from yesurim?
What does this have to do with pouring kos shel bruchoh for hours on end without stopping while the crowd sings and watches in awe - at the stamina of a man in his eighties?
You are to ignorant to Chap so get off that issue.
Rav Yaakov Yosef explains how the event evolved: “It began with building a fence, separating the classes. How did I find out about it? I have a friend, a generous Jew who owns a plaster factory. They turned to him and asked him to donate the fence. He asked them why they need a fence. They explained why, and he asked them, ‘An Ashkenazic teacher’s lounge and one for Sephardim? Why do they need a fence between these two rooms? These teachers learned together in the same seminary. What, do some of the teachers dress immodestly?’
“He told them, ‘I’m not the same kind of chassid as you, I’m a Ruzhiner chassid. We go according to the Baal Shem Tov who founded chassidus to draw people close to their Father in heaven. And you’re planning to go and build fences?’
“He refused to contribute, and he came to me and told me the story.”
from Rav yossefs interview,
he claims that a Ruzhiner Chassidisher yid didn't want to help the Slonimer bigots because his Chassidic beliefs.
we all know that chabad believes in kiruv ubber alles. that is why p.r. is the most important thing for them. they need to look good for the world in ordr to be atractive to potential bts. that is why they will run to disssasociate themselves from any story that may be misunderstood or played up by the fryah, their potential clientele.
this is why they abandoned rubashkin. even though their big shots are in washington eveery day, lighting menoras in every room in the white house and hobnobbing with congressmen. even though they have the "most influential rabbi in america" they will not allow themselves to help rubashkin, for he is a criminal and thus bad for p.r.
this is also why the chabadskers are embarrased of stories like emmanuel. they are ashamed when jews are proudly charedi and are proud to be frum and proudly show that we believe that our lifestyle is superior to the fryaks. they are ashamed of the bad press that such stories will have. What if the secular won't like us? how will we b.t. them?
R Y Yosef went to bagatz w/o referral from any beis-din...marim yad batorah...
are u protesting everyday by Aron Titelbaum,Zalman Lieb Tietelbaum, Yoel Morgesterns houses? since they are in court for the last 30 years?
Reb Yakov Yossef is a yid a Yerai Shomaim that is learning from morning to late night, toras hashem, and he knows the halacha as well as any Rov in Medinas Yisroel
in his interview he said that 33 rabonim are behind his going to the Begatz
"this is why they abandoned rubashkin"as far as I know Shulem Duchman from Kolel Chabad and Hecht is involved, a Fund raising event was arranged in CH, Shem Tovs style in Washington is not to run around in Washington with a megaphone that Justice Read has to rot in hell, It has to be one in a appropriate fashion,
the chabad rabinate was 100% behind Slonoim ( which personaly I believe they were wrong) and all chabad offical media outlets were behind Slonim too, but what do you care, you know that you have to bark against Chabad, no matter which way.
Anon...i don't know these cases...maybe they had a
BD referral...i learned with RYY (refuah shlama) a number of years and he told me specificly no bagatz w/o refferal ...tziki
PS...the 33 rabbis are anon...like you
Time limits me from comparing both - but is this the same mayse which Y. Landsman writes in his new book?
Thanks (to those who've got the time)
you claim ( my gut feeling tells me not to believe you) to have learned with Reb Yakov Yosef, and you know that he not a honest person? he will say that he had 33 rabonim and its a fraud?
anon....of course RYY tells the truth...but his father did say on motzi shabbas those that went to badatz have no portion in the world to come...
hashem yarahem alanu...
why are you bringing up his father here, RYY is a 60 year old man independent from his father,a rosh yeshiva, rosh hakolel, Rav for a kehila larger then Slonim,and he tells you his story, you can choose to say that you know that he is a liar, bringing up his father is just to blow dust of rechilas in a fragile relationship that is not our todays discussion.
1) RYY (Yakov ben margolit ) le refuah shlama is soon to be 64.
2) he is not a R.Y. ur r.c. ,but has a shul with torah classes 18 hours a day , the spitz is his class with maybe 140 yidden...
3) he is a goan olam,beki in the whole torah, mamash.
4)i personaly makir lo todah , in addition to torah, he wrote letters as haver keneset to help me with the beuroracy here.
5) the slonimer rebbi is a prince of thousands ,much more than RYY.
6) his ikar disagreements with his father is over the oslo accords.
if we mentioner already ,3 stood againt the whole torah world
1) R.O.Y. with the oslo accords...
2) RYY with the begatz...
3) r goren with the brother and sister..( btw 1 of his 8 dayanim was a chabadnik )
You forgot Satmar Rov with his shita, so you have 4
I like the way you pay back your hakoras hatov debts, as the saying goes,with friends like you,RYY does not need enemies.
regarding slonimer rebbe,
his kehila is not more then 600 families.
Rappaport did a very good job on the seforim blog. Found many lies and brought in the Barry connection.
Lubavitchers don't eat fish and Milk?
HT. we are expecting a post from you about the Lev le'achim asifa where R'Chaim K and his brother inlaw R' yitzchak Z spoke via satelite to Lakewood, and the issue of a Chabad house having a din like a bais Avodah Zorah came up.... in front of 10,000 people. I kid you not!
I was there the place was roaring from laughter of the silly state that your chasidus has become.
To sum it up as one person said after the event "Chabad has become the laughing stock of yiddishkite".
were all waiting to hear some HT gems on the issue.
Zilbershtein's wife passed on and he remarried. They are no longer BIL.
Halachiky speaking (and thats what counts) they are.
I'd like to thank the good people of Lakewood for laughing. They clarify any doubts we may have had about them.
I watched the video on Matzav of the 2 shvoggers and didn't hear that question arise.
It will be our turn to laugh when Ponevesh is declared a moshav laitzim and Lakewood asifas anoshim reikim.
Soon Lakewood will have to institue a aleph beis test as the entry bechina the standard of learning is so low....and the biggest collection of non-learning laydigayers in the history of yiddishkeit.....its lilke in EY where thousands who never actually turn up are enrolled to either aviod the army or avoid having to taker responsibiity for their lives..
The only difference between half (not all) the Lakewood bochrim anmd 'at risk youth' are the mode of dress and whether they are willing to show outwardly their lack of emuna and hashkafa....
They can laugh in Lakewood.....it helps maintain their self denial about how shallow most of them are...many at the expense of parents killing themselves to keep them there......
Thats cus they cut 10 minutes out (you gotta be sensitve for the nebach cases).
anyways the topic came up by the part where they speak about going into a reform shul and a Bais Avodah Zorah. anyone that was there can confirm that the shaila came up.
and yes, I totaly understand you... the clown always likes when people laugh at him.
Thats why hes a clown.
...(Is that why you turned lube? hmmm)
I think the Slonimers were looking for some attention and publicity. Their sefer 'Nesivos Shalom' in the chassidic sefer for Litvaks, with only a few quotes from Tanya differentiating it from any later day mussar sefer....
They are also fighting against the fact they are the least 'chassidish' group in Israel with nothing but history differentiating them from Litvisher, except a shtraimel on shabbos.
They think this will bring them back into the 'chassidish' camp....they lost that fight with Shvartz Slonim long ago who are the true legacy of Slonim / Lechovitch...
Hey Tzig, how about a write up about Shvartz / White Slonim - the first chassidish split (other than maybe Toldos Ahron / Shomrei Emunim) within a group.....
'Vayse Slonim' are looking to put themselves on the map...other than natural growth, they have not grown in 50 years and have no selling point.....or charasmatic leadership......
If they moved all 300 families they have to Emanuel they could take it over and support their mosdos by selling their real estate to another chasidus...that would be real leadership....the Belzer did it...but maybe the Slonimer Rebbe is scared no one will follow him into the wilderness.....
I know some Slonimer families and they would not pass the 'takanos' set in Emanuel....so what is all the drama about ??
The beis avoda zora is the shul where everyone davens not for the Aybishter but for their own fat wallets....there are more of them around than chabad houses I can assure you....
Lubavitch have proven their mesiras nefesh for yiddishkeit and having nothing else to prove...now its Lakewoods turn to do something ....
The only reason most of these guys would not daven in a chabad house when on vacation is that they could not be bothered davening with a minyan....nothing to do with hashkafa....these guys are kalim and their 'gedolim' are too scared to criticise them because they fund their families and modos..
Anon 2010 10:57:00 PM &
Lubavitchers don't eat fish and Milk?
Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:59:00 PM
I was so bored tonight I actually listened to his lecture. I'll start with the easy one and maybe write another post on the big issues.
1. Milk and fish:
I don't know where he gets his info from, and I suspect it's from his uncles who are lubabs with brisker dikdukim. Lox and cream cheese is eaten by most chassidim (not me, i can't stand lox). Because of the to'us sefer he correctly pointed out, the minhag is not to drink milk while eating fish, but u can immediately before and after. The reason given is sakana, not kashrus. All milk byproducts like cheese are permitted, even soft cheese.
His yossi schochet showed me an interesting tshuva from the Chasam Sofer who assers all milk with fish for sakona reasons. The Chasam Sofer says it's not a to'us sefer in the bais yosef. In short, we have a gzeiras hakosuv not to mix milk and meat. In reality, milk is an animal meat product. We all know that fish & meat cannot be mixed because of sakano. Therefore, milk which is from an animal cannot be mixed with fish because of the same sakana.
I thought that most bloggers here will find this of interest
Here is Friedman & Heilman's response to Rapoport. [Very unconvincing at the best; very poor and unsubstantiated at the worst. Just on example: the matter of the beard. They tell you to look at the pictures appended. I did. They demonstrate nothing of the sort!]
Here is Rapoport's rejoinder:
A year ago a BT from california who became a slonimer wrote on SIMPLE JEW blog...he said we're the best, smartist, and humblest also the best niggunim...
This is the follow-up to my post of Friday, July 02, 2010 2:04:00 AM
In yorei deah siman 87, the issue of mik and fish is discussed. The pischei tshuva differentiates between milk and cheese and says that frying fish in butter is permitted but milk with fish is a sakana. This is the accepted minhag Chabad today.
IMHO this illuminates the problem with RYGB and his analysis. I've heard several of his lectures and he uses some obscure custom to make a larger point. His discussion of alcohol is totally off base, and 10 minutes with some knowledgeable people would set him straight. The problem is that he doesn't do his research to discover the basis of this action. E.G. bochurim wearing their shirts untucked. I heard his pilpul on it and it's sounds gr8 but if he would sit down with some bochurim and ank them, he would hear something different. I can give him plenty of idiosyncracies in Chabad, starting with being m'dayek on zman krias shma and most lubabs having no idea what time is zman tefila. When your audience is mostly BT's, u have to choose your words carefully or they are very liable to be misinterpreted.
Having said all this, I heard from REBS about his shidah and ga'oinus in learning, and I wish him all the best.
for the record, slonim has 1300 families in jerusalem alone...(wikipedia)
Well if he was right why did he send a shaliach from his death bed to apologize?...!
א קשיא on a deathbed apology...
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