Monday, November 15, 2010
Rebbes running scared (Part III)
6 Tishrei, 5732 @ 770 E.P.
From the Avner Institute - Interesting how Reb Zalman Shimon never sat up front, And neither did other ziknei and chashuvei Anash.
So we know and understand why some of the Rebbes are afraid of his apparently very charismatic personality. He's cutting into their numbers. But why do others - who have no horse in this race - say he's off the wall? We can pontificate here. There are some things that your average Chossid'l looks at with caution. The white bekishes, for one. Kluger wears one, and I hear that some of his people do too. They say that he's too involved in Inyonei Shalom Bayis, etc. VeDal. But I don't think he's unique in that sense. They say that Shvartze Slonimer is just as involved in people's lives, and so are others. There's the Doroger Rebbe, who one day started his own operation and has similar tendencies to Kluger. He's left alone and does nice shidduchim and has all the big Rebbes coming to his simchas. Add to that the Toldos'en and we have several like him. So we can safely rule that out - unless you would go after the aforementioned groups and place them outside the realm as well - which I don't think you would do. So why bother Kluger then? I have yet to hear an explanation, and I've asked lots of people. I realize not everybody in the know reads my blog, but maybe somebody out there can come up with a list of crimes?
Why do people who were harassed themselves identify with Kluger? You can ask that question on me and some of my friends who were harassed when the left their groups. Or even if they didn't "belong" anywhere - like me - still had to endure criticism and worse from family and friends. [The family part isn't true with me, b"h.] Well I guess it isn't a question after all. We identify with the nirdof here and maybe ask questions later, much like many of you question and doubt him and his motives first and ask questions later. It's ironic that many of the nirdofim of years past are doing the redifos now, but that often happens when the weak are Oyleh L'Geduloh. The fact that he did nothing to attract the criticism very much works in his favor. They can't even accuse of him of brainwashing innocent bachurim like they do and did to Chabad, since he doesn't make secret shiurim in Yeshivos AFAIK. But the jury is still out on whether some of the dejected fathers and shvers will resort to violence to get their kids "back." I doubt it. In a way Kluger looks like he has no friends, no friends in high places - he's on his own and needs to either fend for himself and fend off all attacks or tone down whatever it is that bothers people so much, which I doubt he'll do.
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Circus Tent is lauded for pictures of the past now it will be known for pictures of the future. Purim 5771 is still ahead of us.
that's twice in a week!
not like me.
אט אזא קליינע הייפעלע און זע וואס איז פון דעם געוואקסן. אדאנק פארן רשימה.
גוט יום טוב
the fact that you stick up for kluger means that ..........
The Doroger is a mase listoir as he was booted out of Belz where he was a magid shiur in the '80s. He then started a yeshive and his bochurim who turned yingeleit are his grassroots chasidim. He did not draw yingeleit from others in large numbers. He is also very conventional and simply liked the oiven on, saying toires and all the other rebbishe trappings.
To be villified there must be more than simply drawing crowds and cutting into numbers. There must be cult like practises, secret meetings in private homes, white bekitshes, and other bizzare conduct and if it draws followers aged 30 plus as well as a younger crowd they'll have the oilem eating out of their hands and the rebbes turning in their SUVs.
R' Osher Freind was one such many years ago and Rav Shach, I believe, spoke out against him. They may even have been talk of a cheirem. The Komarner could be like that but his following is not great enough and he doesn't demand much.
Basically, the Rebbes are fearful of those who threaten the status quo of a Rebbe without the responsibility of moisdes and who presents a novel alternative to the dreariness and uniformity of most movements. Once the newcomer behaves bizarrely they have something to pick on while conveniently ignoring that few movements are conventional at their inception and least of all chasidim.
Usually those who fall under the influence of these charlatans, for that is what they usually are, will draw their friends who in turn draw their friends. The established movements can then put on a straight face and condemn not the fact of this newbie's existence but his chutzpah to act as a missionary imi baboyis, so to speak.
We've seen it all before. Either he will start his own schools and other institutions and turn into yet another Rebbe to fill the Kol Ho'oilom Kiloi or he will simply disappear from the radar without attracting large enough numbers to form a critical mass.
Can there never be ONE man and group who bucks the trend?
Emunas Yisroel doesn't have mosdos AFAIK
The bigger you get the more removed the chassidim are from the Rebbe ...so some look for
The bigger you are ...the harder it is to tailor your Torah / Sichos to specific people and problems....the more you feel the need to keep money coming in to pey for the mosdos as most chassidim with large families cannot pay for schar limud....
Rebbes like mashpim to be predictable....
I don't understand this post.
You are basically opening up your blog to people posting dirt,anonymously,mind you, on Kluger.
You "just want to know" why there may be a "hisnagdus" towards him??
You claim you have "standards"
If so the standards are pretty low.
I want to give you credit for this line, though: "It's ironic that many of the nirdofim of years past are doing the redifos now, but that often happens when the weak are Oyleh L'Geduloh"
I feel and I"m not saying this to get you riled up,that this is one of my problems with Lubavitch.I don't buy their "redifos" to much, though I"m sure that the youth and no so young have been fed this.Now that they have grown quite a bit they are becoming roidfim or showing clear signs of becoming such.
Is reb Osher Freund from the Karliner Freund family related to Tuvia from the Hamodia?
I reliazed from the picture that the Rebbe does not lean on the back of the chair? was this only by farbrengens?
1) ...r asher freund ztl was a cousin of the freunds of sanz and karlin...
2) the karmarner has a brother in beit shemish who has no hassidm and much ruach hakodesh...
SE/TA//TAY had the same sort of beginning in Hungary. Many people think they are the authentic Jews. 21st century Breslov has gone from fringe to force in an extremely short period of time. No one is secure.
emunas yisroel will look like lubavitch, if HE doesnt get his act togrether soon...
what does that mean if he doesn't get his act together soon? They don't think he is Moshiach! He doesn't call himself a Rebbe anyway. Who would succeed him?
only a couple times did the Rebbe lean back in the chair and as such was the case when it did happen it was taken as a sign that something was amiss. one such time was when the Rebbe had a heart attack. otherwise the Rebbe seldom if ever leaned back. I heard from Rabbi Gerlitzky that the Rebbe once spoke of how amalek can be miGayer and the Rebbe paused leaned back and sat back up and brought a rayeh from one makor and then leaned back again for a moment and then brought another over and over again. When Rabbbi Gerlitzky returned home to his sifriya (massive) he looked through all the seforim that spoke of it and each one brought down one or two of the rayehs but none brought them all down.
Emunas Yisorel is as conventional as eirkichel and herring other than the shtreimel and bekitshe and singing zemires to the tune of oifn veg shteit a boim...
He also pays homage to the tough guys on the block and doesn't pinch any chasidim. His crowd is as american as apple pie and probably Schotenstein's target market. So why should anyone be bothered?
Any place with out a line of succession is bound for machlokes r"l when the "personality" that is the object of the cult of personality is off the stage. Emunsa yisroel isn't a cohesive group without r wolfson. None of his original chasidim/talmidim sent their kids to ytv, the 2nd generation chevrah over there will need a anchor to keep them from splintering when he's gone. Zol er selaibin moshichn
This much I can tell you about Rav Kluger. I am not a chosid of his yet I learned a lot from him in the few shiurim I heard and his sefer Nezer Yisroel. I do know several of his chassidim who are talmidei chachomim and very "normal" people. His koiach is that he is REAL and he delivers. He teaches them chassidus and is a very big michadeish. He has a real koiach. he is a baki in kabbala and chassidus as Rav Fishel Eisenbach zt'l writes in a haskama
btw the reason he doesnt say unesaneh tokef by mussaf is because he davens al pi Rashash (who doesn't include it). Other chssidish Rabbanim who daven with kavanos Harashash dont say it either.
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